Zelda Franchise Discussion

[Swamp Sensei]

Do you remember what she did to the Twilight mirror? If the game developers feel like they want to revisit the Twilight Realm, they will find a way to do it. However, the end of Twilight does seem to wrap up the interaction between Light and Dark Worlds.

Ghirahim has the recognition that he is the evil mastersword. I think that is extremely important.

Yes I remember. But she is alive and well, and never gave up her role to someone else.

Ghirahim has never been stated to be the 'evil mastersword.' He is simply Demise's sword.

 

[Bowserlick]

Yes I remember. But she is alive and well, and never gave up her role to someone else.

Ghirahim has never been stated to be the 'evil mastersword.' He is simply Demise's sword.

He is the counter to Fi. An embodiment of a sword. He serves the embodiment of evil, as Fi serves the embodiment of good. You don't have to call him the "evil mastersword," but he clearly serves the purpose.

 

[Fastblade5035]

Ghiarhim still could have relevance to the mythology. Think of how Fi is in nearly all Zelda games. Ghirahim can be evil's answer to her.

He could. So could Midna. Your not convincing anyone that Ghirahim is getting in. Nintendo can do whatever the heck they want with Ghirahim and Midna. All your saying is "could be" "might" "can". Again, your not convincing anyone.

 

[Bowserlick]

He could. So could Midna. Your not convincing anyone that Ghirahim is getting in. Nintendo can do whatever the heck they want with Ghirahim and Midna. All your saying is "could be" "might" "can". Again, your not convincing anyone.

You actually do not know if I am not convincing anyone here that he is a more probable pick than other Zelda characters. I might be.

I am just posting my opinions and when they game comes out, I will see what if any Zelda characters are included.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You actually do not know if I am not convincing anyone here that he is a more probable pick than other Zelda characters. I might be.

I am just posting my opinions and when they game comes out, I will see what if any Zelda characters are included.

Is accused of saying "might."
Answers by saying "might be." XD

Either way, if Midna, Zant, Ghirahim, etc. appeared again. I would support them. But until then, I cannot see them happening.

 

[Gene]

Ghirahim has a chance as the new Zelda representative for a couple reasons.

1. Smash needs new characters. Sakurai cannot just keep digging into the past.
2. Ghirahim is not necessarily a one shot character. While not an avatar of the triforce like Zelda, Ganondorf and Link, he is an avatar of evil's answer to a reoccurring weapon.

What's wrong with digging into the past?


Also if we want to get technical, following the Zelda timeline Ghirahim would be considered a character from the past that's still a one shot until he appear's in another game.

 

[Bowserlick]

What's wrong with digging into the past?


Also if we want to get technical, following the Zelda timeline Ghirahim would be considered a character from the past that's still a one shot until he appear's in another game.

I did not explain this point well enough. My fault. Sakurai displayed frustration that no new Nintendo characters were being created. He will have to dig into Nintendo's past for characters. But Ghirahim is a recently created character. The question than becomes: Is Ghiarhim relevant?

I say he "might be" because I do not know the developers plan. However, since he served as a foil to the Master Sword he has potential as a reoccurring weapon.

 

[Bowserlick]

Is accused of saying "might."
Answers by saying "might be." XD

Either way, if Midna, Zant, Ghirahim, etc. appeared again. I would support them. But until then, I cannot see them happening.

I am accused and guilty of saying "might" and "might be" because I am dealing with probability. Someday you might discover logic. It is only probable.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I am accused and guilty of saying "might" and "might be" because I am dealing with probability. Someday you might discover logic. It is only probable.

I was only teasing. You know that right? None of us can predict what will happen. To be honest, I respect that you do not spout your opinion as fact. And the fact that I continued to debate meant that I respected your intellect. I apologize if I offended you. It was not my intention.

 

[Spire]

Well hot dawg, Ghirahim missed out on fifteen games! Looks like his chances are too slim.

 

[Bowserlick]

I was only teasing. You know that right? None of us can predict what will happen. To be honest, I respect that you do not spout your opinion as fact. And the fact that I continued to debate meant that I respected your intellect. I apologize if I offended you. It was not my intention.

No problem. If you can choose one Zelda character for the next game (the one that would make you happiest), which one would it be?

Personally, I would prefer the staff to focus on a non-clone or non-psudeo-clone Ganondorf before adding another Zelda character.

 

[Zuby]

If I had total free reign to choose... Captain John Tiberius Linebeck.

Of the plausible candidates: Tetra.

How in the world did anyone arrive at the idea of "Toon Sheik"?

 

[3Bismyname]

if i could choose anyone it would def be Skull Kid. he's still my favorite Zelda villain after Ganondorf of course. oh u know what Pig Ganon would b great too

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Linebeck for SSB4!

Oh and Groose representing the Legend of Groose.

 

[Fastblade5035]

And Epona representing animals.
Come on, who doesn't want to play as this majestic creation:

Edit: yaay, 100th post.

 

[Curious Villager]

Not until she has her own game, carrying Baby Link and all.

 

[Shorts]

Ghirahim's possible reasoning for addition: He's current, and Nintendo really DID hype Skyward Sword. In the similar way that Xenoblade really got noticed, I feel Skyward Sword had a lot of similar positive feedback. Other than that, he's just a one time villian really.

Toon Zelda / Toon Shiek, Hey, they were almost in Brawl, and Sakurai seems to like to continue unused character ideas in future versions of Smash.

Tingle: What can I say? He used to show up a lot, and he got his own remake/spin off rupeeland ****. One of the fewreaccuring Zelda characters, who actually has some notoriety.

Other than these four characters, Zelda is looking gloomy for newcomers. Especially considering it looks like Sakurai hasn't tried expanding the franchise beyond Link, Zelda, Ganon, and Young characters. Tingle's been the only Zelda character since Brawl to have any high notoriety, and even now, he seems to be disappearing. Besides the LoZWWHD remake.

I'm all for Tingle and Ghirahim though. Love me those *******.

 

[volbound1700]

Skyward Sword had awesome mechanics and a good storyline but IMO it was not as good as some of the other big Zeldas because the game felt short and the last half felt rushed IMO. Why send us back to the three places we visited? Basically the game was three areas with around six dungeons in it. The dungeons seemed small compared to OOT or TP dungeons. The overworld was lush with activity but then again so is MM overworld and it had 5 different basic areas (Great Bay, Goron Peaks, Terminia Field, Swamp, Land of Dead).

Ghirahim fanboys are getting a little too crazy, I saw one of them argue he had more personality and background than Ganondorf in the Groose thread which is ridiculous.

 

[Second Power]

Ghirahim fanboys are getting a little too crazy, I saw one of them argue he had more personality and background than Ganondorf in the Groose thread which is ridiculous.

Well... I feel he does, as well. Gannondorf wants to attain ultimate power and conquer the world. Good, I just described a good quarter of game villians. Ghirahim's primary goal was saving his master, Demise. You really can't say it was to conquer the world, because, he pretty much did that already. The only species he wasn't controlling were the humans (completely isolated from the rest of the world), the Kikwis (only survived via camoflauge and would never survive a war), the Mogma (not combat orientated), the ancient robots (don't fight, disregarding the fact they are all destroyed), and the Parella (who had a dragon protecting them, and still needed Link to save them). Ghirahim was saving Demise out of loyalty, unlike Link and his devious ulterior motive to save the world when he goes off to rescue Zelda.

And Gannondorf, who uses the outdated mold that a villian is only an obstacle and not a character. In OoT, Gannondorf conquers Hyrule, kidnaps Zelda, and loses to Link. Replace Gannondorf with <villian>, Hyrule with <place>, Zelda with <love interest>, Link with <hero>, and I just described a quater of stories in general. In TP, he narrowly avoids death and nonsensically gives Zant power and manipulates Zant into taking over the world for him. I say nonsensically because there wasn't any reason for it. Gannondorf's existence isn't kept a secret, he could just have easily done everything Zant did without relying on a formerly weak puppet. Unless I'm missing something. This time, however, he is killed by the combined efforts of Link and Zelda. Better story, stagnate villian. In WW, he fails to capture Zelda and only does so on his second try because Link was dumb enough to leave her alone. He also gets screwed over by the King of Red Lions before rightfully winning. Again, no personality beyond generic world conquerer.

 

[Ember Reaper]

Well... I feel he does, as well. Gannondorf wants to attain ultimate power and conquer the world. Good, I just described a good quarter of game villains. Ghirahim's primary goal was saving his master, Demise. You really can't say it was to conquer the world, because, he pretty much did that already. The only species he wasn't controlling were the humans (completely isolated from the rest of the world), the Kikwis (only survived via camouflage and would never survive a war), the Mogma (not combat orientated), the ancient robots (don't fight, disregarding the fact they are all destroyed), and the Parella (who had a dragon protecting them, and still needed Link to save them). Ghirahim was saving Demise out of loyalty, unlike Link and his devious ulterior motive to save the world when he goes off to rescue Zelda.

And Gannondorf, who uses the outdated mold that a villian is only an obstacle and not a character. In OoT, Gannondorf conquers Hyrule, kidnaps Zelda, and loses to Link. Replace Gannondorf with <villian>, Hyrule with <place>, Zelda with <love interest>, Link with <hero>, and I just described a quater of stories in general. In TP, he narrowly avoids death and nonsensically gives Zant power and manipulates Zant into taking over the world for him. I say nonsensically because there wasn't any reason for it. Gannondorf's existence isn't kept a secret, he could just have easily done everything Zant did without relying on a formerly weak puppet. Unless I'm missing something. This time, however, he is killed by the combined efforts of Link and Zelda. Better story, stagnate villian. In WW, he fails to capture Zelda and only does so on his second try because Link was dumb enough to leave her alone. He also gets screwed over by the King of Red Lions before rightfully winning. Again, no personality beyond generic world conqueror.

Wow very nice write up! That's rather interesting, I have never looked at it that way. It makes me want Ghirahim all the more! Maybe Sakurai will see this, and make a decision on it. We can dream I suppose

 

[Big-Cat]

Half of Ghirahim's schtick is magic, so heavy reliance on swordplay? I think not. He could be the first "sword & sorcery" type character in smash, whereas Ganon needs to be all heavy warlock ****, utilizing both melee and magic attacks.

I pictured more of a Vergil type character for Ghirahim.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I may be the fanboy you speak of because I posted in the Groose thread a lot discussing Ghirahim and Groose. But it seems I don't need to elaborate once more on how generally generic Ganondorf is because of Second Power. Even Bowser in the Mario games is given more distinction in the ones that he gets a bit of dialogue, particularly if you count the RPGs.

 

[Spire]

Ganondorf was only interesting in Wind Waker. I feel Second Power intentionally didn't give him credit there because he was trying to drive home his point about Ganondorf being a generic villain. That is still true for the most part, but in WW he explains (in relatively good writing) his motives, expressing a bit of sorrow and [almost] regret. It is his lust for power that snaps him out of his most human moment in the series, putting him back on the triforce track. Hell, he was willing to kill a kid for ultimate power. Despite this, he definitely had a softer heart in Wind Waker and it made for a much more compelling villain. Since then, we have seen Ganondorf in only Twilight Princess, and Ganon in Four Swords Adventures. Really, since 2003, the character "Ganon" has appeared in only two Zelda games (and there have been six). Is he losing prominence?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Really, since 2003, the character "Ganon" has appeared in only two Zelda games (and there have been six). Is he losing prominence?

Not really. Most of the games since then have had one-shot villains in them. Ganondorf still holds the title of the most recurring villain in the series, plus he's the only one that could complete the "Triforce Trio." FSA proves that there can be multiple Ganons, so I think it's entirley possible that we'll see more of him in the future.

 

[TewnLeenk]

Not sure if this has been said already, but I think Toon Link is a little more than a "might" right now considering Wind Waker HD is coming out for the Wii U this year.

But if they want to add a new Zelda character, I'd want Skull Kid in the game personally.

 

[Spire]

Not really. Most of the games since then have had one-shot villains in them. Ganondorf still holds the title of the most recurring villain in the series, plus he's the only one that could complete the "Triforce Trio." FSA proves that there can be multiple Ganons, so I think it's entirley possible that we'll see more of him in the future.

That's not what I was suggesting. Ganon is always gonna be Ganon and he'll always be a part of Zelda, but how many more times is Nintendo going to "surprise" us with his presence (looking at you Twilight Princess)? They're going to need to figure out new ways to introduce him as a villain, or else he's going to become Bowser (not saying he isn't the Zelda equivalent of the Koopa King though). Demise was a neat way of reintroducing him, in a way. Gave him further backstory and identity.

I do think it's entirely possible that Ganon becomes less important as Demise continues to reincarnate in numerous forms (Malladus is a good guess). True talk, Demise might become the Legend of Zelda's main villain. Due to his role in Skyward Sword, he technically is already—and has been since the beginning of the series. Depends on the direction Nintendo wants to take the series though. Demise is now an entity that can come back at any time in any form.

 

[volbound1700]

Well... I feel he does, as well. Gannondorf wants to attain ultimate power and conquer the world. Good, I just described a good quarter of game villians. Ghirahim's primary goal was saving his master, Demise. You really can't say it was to conquer the world, because, he pretty much did that already. The only species he wasn't controlling were the humans (completely isolated from the rest of the world), the Kikwis (only survived via camoflauge and would never survive a war), the Mogma (not combat orientated), the ancient robots (don't fight, disregarding the fact they are all destroyed), and the Parella (who had a dragon protecting them, and still needed Link to save them). Ghirahim was saving Demise out of loyalty, unlike Link and his devious ulterior motive to save the world when he goes off to rescue Zelda.

And Gannondorf, who uses the outdated mold that a villian is only an obstacle and not a character. In OoT, Gannondorf conquers Hyrule, kidnaps Zelda, and loses to Link. Replace Gannondorf with <villian>, Hyrule with <place>, Zelda with <love interest>, Link with <hero>, and I just described a quater of stories in general. In TP, he narrowly avoids death and nonsensically gives Zant power and manipulates Zant into taking over the world for him. I say nonsensically because there wasn't any reason for it. Gannondorf's existence isn't kept a secret, he could just have easily done everything Zant did without relying on a formerly weak puppet. Unless I'm missing something. This time, however, he is killed by the combined efforts of Link and Zelda. Better story, stagnate villian. In WW, he fails to capture Zelda and only does so on his second try because Link was dumb enough to leave her alone. He also gets screwed over by the King of Red Lions before rightfully winning. Again, no personality beyond generic world conquerer.

Ganondorf was born by the Gerudo were he was raised as a thief and has a background as such. He explains in Windwaker that he did not like his birth place, the wind and the desert was rough, he envied Hyrule and wanted to conquer it out of his anger and envy. Ganondorf shows he has a trait for betrayal and treachery by turning on the King of Hyrule in OOT. He is ruthless pushing aside anyone that stands in his way. He has little regard for anything other than power. Despite being evil, he has a regal look. Ganondorf is willing to sacrifice his humanity as described in a Link to Power and become Ganon. He has destroyed an entire world (Dark World). He was willing to kidnap every maiden in the world to find Zelda (WW). He has total control over the dark forces of Hyrule. Despite having the chance, he spares Young Link in OOT because he doesn't see him as a threat.

Overall Ganon shows himself to be a power-hungry tyrant who is jealous and envious of Hyrule and its beauty. Despite this he believes in the old kingdom and tries to spare Hyrule in Windwaker. He is born of two witches to the Gerudo and is raised as a bandit. He has skills with swords and is an expert thief as described in OOT. He has obtain the power of the gods as described in Twilight Princess. He holds the characterstics of Demise as described in Skyward Sword.

Ganon has significant more background and personality than Ghirahim. You have never played OOT, ALttP, or WW which all provide heavy background on Ganon. Ghirahim is simply a wierd, sadistic demon that acts flamboyant and works for Demise. Ganon is cunning, manivolent, charismatic (he got the King of Hyrule to follow him), power hungry, ruthless, etc. Ganon is the most ruthless of all the major Nintendo villians and is the Hitler/Stalin of the Nintendo Universe.

Ganon to me resembles leaders like Saddam Hussein or Stalin heavily.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

It isn't that he lacks a personality I should say, but that the personality he does indeed have is generic and typical for his role, which Second Power has stated and wasn't really refuted. Ghirahim's behavior wasn't necessary for his role, he clearly had thought put into him in comparison to a character that simply takes on "Dark Lord" traits in order to function as something like that. In that regard he is one-dimensional, for his identity is simply fulfilling its duty in the story and nothing more. Indeed, aside from the examples of Wind Waker provided, the personality traits delineated still describe a typical villain who desires power and control. The attempts to describe his personality provides the same answer one would receive if one were to ask any person to describe what a big-bad villain would be like.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

^agreed. And most of all i thought ghirahim came across better and with his frequent appearences he was an ever looming threat that was with you the whole way, instead of a monster behind the closet at the end like ganondorf and many other villains have been. Ganondorf is great, but as good of a character as he is, he lacks a lot of things and he really needs to be fleshed out far more than he has. Especially since TP, ghirahim and Midna have easily been the best characters to come out of zelda yet.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Skyward Sword was the 25th Anniversary game and the latest one at that, it is a big game and Nintendo pushed it as such. It will impact most of the Zelda roster.

Link and Zelda for sure, and I would assume the 5th character. To give them their own villain I would say it should be Ghirahim.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If 25th anniversaries really matter to them, Mario would have got more than a wii port of the weak super mario all stars

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

If 25th anniversaries really matter to them, Mario would have got more than a wii port of the weak super mario all stars

Zelda got a better 25th Anniversary regardless

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It probably just happened to come out on the 25th anniversary. I'm sure a Zelda title was going to come out regardless of it or not

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

It probably just happened to come out on the 25th anniversary. I'm sure a Zelda title was going to come out regardless of it or not

It is not only the 25th Anniversary game, but also the LATEST ONE. And they go off of that......remember Twilight Princess in Brawl? And Winder Waker and the GBA games for Toon Link?

If those impacted it in Brawl, then the likes of Skyward Sword and Spirit Tracks have no challenge affecting this one.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

In other words, they are going to look horrible in contrast with the rest of the cast by trying to mock cell shading using just primary colors.

Skyward sword was made for the SM4SH roster to clash...colors, that is

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

In other words, they are going to look horrible in contrast with the rest of the cast by trying to mock cell shading using just primary colors.

Skyward sword was made for the SM4SH roster to clash...colors, that is

Remember what they did to the likes of Mario in Brawl?......adding more detail to them. Same thing here.

And I would rather have the designs from this game than the similar to Twilight Princess, these ones look loads better (namely Link).

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Oops, sorry for double post.

Anyways Ghirahim would be a great rep.

Seriously, who doesn't like Debbie?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It is not only the 25th Anniversary game, but also the LATEST ONE. And they go off of that......remember Twilight Princess in Brawl? And Winder Waker and the GBA games for Toon Link?

If those impacted it in Brawl, then the likes of Skyward Sword and Spirit Tracks have no challenge affecting this one.

The latest Zelda game before Brawl was Phantom Hourglass. It barely got mentioned. Sakurai doesn't look at the latest one for inspiration. He looks at the most iconic one. TP and WW were iconic. SS is as well.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Remember what they did to the likes of Mario in Brawl?......adding more detail to them. Same thing here.

And I would rather have the designs from this game than the similar to Twilight Princess, these ones look loads better (namely Link).

It's the exact same design with less detail and different colors

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

The latest Zelda game before Brawl was Phantom Hourglass. It barely got mentioned. Sakurai doesn't look at the latest one for inspiration. He looks at the most iconic one. TP and WW were iconic. SS is as well.

The LATEST iconic, and it only relates to ones he is able to get in time when he is working on the roster. Didn't Phantom Hourglass come out in 2007? How would much of it get in over the Gamecube and GBA games (where Brawl was based) like Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and the Four Swords games?

It's the exact same design with less detail and different colors

Its the pants dude

But it does look better to me because of the colors, they look nicer.......and not dark.