Zelda Franchise Discussion

[Robert of Normandy]

I think some people need to start letting go of Ocarina of Time. I'm pro-Sheik because I'm generally anti-cuts, but I think the idea of having the main Link character be based solely on Ocarina of Time is ridiculous. I'm still in favour of an amalgamated Link that through costume changes can represent many of his incarnations, with focus on shared items rather than instalment specific ones (eg Gale boomerang).

Prior to Brawl, Link was an amalgamation, using only the most reocurring items in his arsenal.

Ganondorf's not quite so simple because there is less common ground in his appearances. Twilight Princess is probably the closest to the middle ground in both appearance and moveset, but like others have said Wind Waker will have currency due to the HD remake. I say get the man a sword. He doesn't have to use it for everything, but it would be a handy addition.

I'm fine with sword Ganon so long as his old moveset is kept around in some way, be it through stance system, alternate moveset, or something else(just don't dump it on a new character).

 

[Zuby]

Yeah, I'm not arguing for major moveset changes for Ganondorf. I think it would improve his aesthetic, and would help beat down those people who still call him a Captain Falcon clone.

 

[Zekersaurus]

Darknut... Like a sub BOSS

 

[Ember Reaper]

Huh I didn't know that... it'd be a good switch to Toon Ganon I suppose. Odd so many people switched, so suddenly. though I guess that happens in speculation.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Huh I didn't know that... it'd be a good switch to Toon Ganon I suppose. Odd so many people switched, so suddenly. though I guess that happens in speculation.

It all happened when WW HD was announced.

 

[Ember Reaper]

It all happened when WW HD was announced.

I somehow missed the vocalization of this concept, nor had the same change of heart it seems... but I might change my mind

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well, if it makes you happy. I'm also still against Toon Ganon.

...the only Zelda character I'd want is Tingle

 

[FalKoopa]

Could Ganondorf have some moves from Demise in Skyward Sword? He is the incarnation of Demise's hate towards Link, after all.

Also, with Wind Waker HD in the works, I believe toon link is pretty much confirmed.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Toon Link is without doubt returning yeah. WW Ganondorf would just fit better with a mostly Skyward Sword styled cast. He was considered before to for these very reasons. And, twin blades are awesome.

 

[Spire]

Stopped reading when I figured out this was pointless and didn't prove anything. And as for the last sentence, yes. You are right sir.

As for sheik....nobody is going to convince me that she has any reason to leave. And nobody is going to tell me that Impa is more important to her. Because sheik is princess Zelda; that's like saying robin is better than Bruce Wayne, but NOT batman.
Edit: I'm not sure this is the right way to get my point across lol

I'm gonna bring this back up. Let's try and play out the LoZ = Batman analogy.

Zelda = Bruce Wayne
Sheik = Batman
Impa = Alfred
Link = Nightwing
Toon Link = Robin
Ganondorf = The Joker or Bane

But you see, this is inherently flawed because Batman is recurring whereas Sheik is NOT. I would love to see Sheik become a staple of the Legend of Zelda series, but as it is—Sheik has appeared more in Smash than Zelda. Because of this, the Zelda/Batman comparisons are null.

There is no Batman without Batman. There's even Batman without Bruce Wayne (others have taken up the cowl), but the Batman must be present for the series to exist. I'm sure there are a couple exceptions, but those are among a catalogue of thousands of stories where Batman is totally present. Conversely, there is The Legend of Zelda without Sheik. Batman ≠ Sheik.

There's a new Batman TV series called Beware the Batman. Want to know who the main characters are? Batman, Katana (female sidekick, Robin replacement), and Alfred. Alfred isn't just a butler, now he fights alongside Batman with guns. If you want to stick to the Batman = Zelda argument, then Alfred is a badass fighter like Impa, only increasing her comparative chances of being playable.

————————————————————————————————————————

New Idea! Okay LoZ Smashers, I've got a challenge:

—THE LEGEND OF—
ZELDA
—BATTLE ROSTER—

The Zelda fighting game you've always wanted (or not)! Who would you put on the roster?
Keep in mind, you are not deciding on Zelda characters that would appear in Smash Bros.
There are no limits to the amount of characters, but they must be from the Legend of Zelda series only.
No 3rd party characters. How would you represent the sixteen titles in the series?

1. Link LoZ ▲
2. Zelda AoL ▲
3. Agahnim ALttP ▲
4. DethI LA ▲
5. Sheik OoT ▲
6. Skull Kid & Majora MM ▲
7. Impa OoA ▲
8. Twinrova OoS ▲
9. Vaati FS ▲
10. King of Hyrule WW ▲
11. Ganon FSA ▲
12. Tingle TMC ▲
13. Midna TP ▲
14. Young Link PH ▲
15. Malladus ST ▲
16. Ghirahim SS ▲
17. Biggoron — ▲
18. King Zora — ▲
19. Great Moblin — ▲
20. Jalhalla — ▲

 

[Curious Villager]

Didn't they already finalize the roster before Wind Waker HD was announced? Then again why wouldn't the smash team know about the remake before the rest of the world? And they can always change thing's up during development I suppose, especially since they already have a Toon Link model in Brawl that they can update to current Wii U standards and maybe bring back their scrapped Toon Zelda idea (With Tetra please! No Toon Sheik). Plus they will likely be unlockable character's anyway's, so the dev's can take their time on completing them before their first release.

Eitherway, if they add to the Wind Waker cast and update the Twilight Princess cast to the Skyward Sword ones.

I suppose the Zelda roster will most likely end up something like this:
Link
Toon Link
Zelda/Sheik
Toon Zelda/Tetra (hopefully)
Ganondorf (WW or updated SS design)

At the very least, with maybe Ghirahim and/or Impa included? I suppose I can live with that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I was hoping Sheik would be reocurring in Zelda as well. And thought her Melee role actually wouldve made her a staple. But she never became one, and her only excisting role became less impresive after each coming Zelda game.

Well yeah, I don't really think they've finalised the complete roster. Not yet at leadt. And if they did, I'm sure Wind Waker HD would push them to put Toon Link badk in if he where considered to be cut. However, this does make WW Ganondorf a bit less likely perhaps..? Not holding my breath either for Toon Zelda and Tetra.

As for the Zelda fighting game roster... I don't know yet. I'm thinking of multiple Links, Zeldas and Ganons right now mostly. But outside of that, I have a general kind of idea which characters to include from which game. Might post my idea later.

 

[Frostwraith]

A Zelda fighting game roster? Challenge accepted!

[COLLAPSE="Roster (33 characters)"]Link (OoT, TP or SS look)
Zelda / Sheik (OoT, TP or SS look)
Ganondorf (OoT or TP look)
Toon Link
Toon Zelda / Tetra
Ghirahim
Zant
Vaati
Twinrova
Darunia
Impa
Deku Link
Goron Link
Zora Link
Fierce Deity Link
Rauru
Nabooru
Dark Link
Dark Toon Link
General Onox
Veran
Demise
Byrne (Staven in EU)
Majora's Wrath
Agahnim
Darknut (WW or TP look)
Tingle
Wolf Link (with Midna, obviously)
Rusl
Auru
Ashei
Shad
King Bulblin[/COLLAPSE]

Includes all major villains and Link's transformations from Majora's Mask.

Besides the Zelda fighting game roster, I think that Toon Link will return thanks to the Wind Waker remake.

If the new Zelda Wii U comes out before SSB4, they could make Link and Zelda based on that game, however, Sakurai's team may have already decided on Link and Zelda's looks because of the upcoming E3 trailer.

 

[Curious Villager]

Well yeah, I don't really think they've finalised the complete roster. Not yet at leadt. And if they did, I'm sure Wind Waker HD would push them to put Toon Link badk in if he where considered to be cut. However, this does make WW Ganondorf a bit less likely perhaps..? Not holding my breath either for Toon Zelda and Tetra.

Well if they haven't finalized the roster yet then I suppose there is still room for more character's if certain dev's ask for it right? Sonic was the only one who came after the finalized roster so we'll see...

Yes or at the very least, they might bring back the pirate ship stage from brawl. But if the pirate ship return's surely they could bring Toon Link back too... :/

Yeah WW Ganondorf, Toon Zelda and Tetra still aren't that likely, I agree. But okay. So long as my Toon Link is back to kick some newcomer's butt I'll be happy. Throw in Mewtwo and Professor Layton along with him as well and I'll be EXTREMELY happy!

 

[Opossum]

If there were a purely-Zelda fighter, you know who I'd like to see? Kaepora Gaebora, despite all the hate he gets. C'mon, who wouldn't want to fight as an owl? Talon slashes, wings...he'd be a hoot.

 

[TheCreator]

We already **** on my batman argument, that was not needed lol

 

[Diddy Kong]

Cause of my Dark Knight quotes?

You know, I'd make Din, Nayru and Faore playable in that Zelda fighting game. Inspired on their Oracle appearance as dancers, but with powers of Fire for Din, Ice for Nayru and Lightning for Faore.

 

[Spire]

Why don't you make your roster then! I'm eager to see what you imagine.

 

[Arcadenik]

Here's my Zelda fighting game roster. 47 characters slots, 1 random slot, 53 playable characters.

[COLLAPSE="Zelda roster"][COLLAPSE="Agahnim / Ganon (transformation via Final Smash)"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Alfonzo (the guy on the right)"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Blind the Thief"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Buriki"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Byrne"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Chancellor Cole"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Composer Brothers (team like Ice Climbers)"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Demise"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Dimitri"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Din"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Farore"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Ganondorf"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Ghirahim"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Great Fairy"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Great Moblin"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Groose"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Igos du Ikana"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Impa"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Kakashi"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="King Bulblin"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="King of Hyrule"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Linebeck"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Link"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Lion"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Majora's Mask"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Maple"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Masked Link (transform via Down+B)"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Moosh"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Nayru"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Onox"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Oshus"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Phantom Ganon"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Phantom Zelda (but Zelda's ghost is not playable)"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Ricky"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Skull Kid"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Tingle"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Toon Ganon"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Toon Link"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Toon Zelda / Tetra"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Twinrova (merge or separate via Final Smash)"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Uncle Rupee"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Vaati"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Veran"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Vire"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Wolf Link"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Zant"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Zelda / Sheik"]

[/COLLAPSE][/COLLAPSE]

 

[TheCreator]

^ best roster ever

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ok all right I'll make one.

*= secret / unlockable character

Skyward Sword characters:

-Link (using TP sword techniques, and Skyward Strike. SS styled)
-Zelda (Hylia's mortal form, lots of protecting abilities and magic)
-Impa (barriers, magic attacks, kung fu fighting style, even some shadow based attacks)
-Ghirahim
-*Demise*
-Bokoblin (all colored versions)

Wind Waker characters :

- 'Toon' Link
- 'Toon' Zelda / Tetra
-*Ganondorf*
-*Orca (the spear fighting badass who teaches Link how to use a sword)*
- Spear Moblin

Ocarina of Time characters:

- Hero of Time Link
- Princess Zelda / Sheik
-*Ganondorf*
- Young Link
-*Nabuuro*
-*Twinrova*
- Stalfos

*Majora's Mask characters:* (all unlockables)

- Deku Link
- Goron Link
- Zora Link
- Skull Kid
- Tingle
- Fierce Deity Link

Twilight Princess characters:

- Wolf Link & Midna
- *Hero's Shade*
- *Deku Nut*

*Oracle Zelda characters:

- Din
- Nayru
- Faore

More to come possibly.

 

[Ove]

I actually like the idea with a Majora's Mask Link that can transform into Deku, Zora and Goron. Final Smash could be Fierce Diety.

I like your suggestion, Diddy Kong. Great selection of characters! Orca and the Oracle versions of Din, Nayru and Farore are especially good, whilst I don't know how Twinrova would work and Stalfos, Spear Moblin and Deku Nut feel a bit too generic.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I meant Dark Nut actually.

These bros:

 

[Gene]

You know who else should be added to the rosters? Hippo.

[Collapse= Warning:NSFW?]

[/Collapse]

 

[Ove]

I thought Deku Nut was a bit strange ;P Dark Nut is a bit too generic for my taste too, unfortunately.

Not that Dark Nut and Stalfos wouldn't work, they definitely could, it's just controversial to add minor enemies as playable characters in Smash.

Wolf Link/Midna would be a great entry since I guess the chance of seeing Amateratsu in Smash is negligible...

 

[Arcadenik]

That's why I have Phantom Zelda and Igos du Ikana in my Zelda fighting game roster. They are the closest things to a Dark Nut and a Stalfos.

 

[Spire]

I get obsessed with roster creation. I've poured days into a roster I've yet to reveal (the one I initially posted is just a prototype). Haven't hit the sweet spot of perfect balance yet, but I'm getting close. More Zelda rosters everybody!

Also, Arcadenik, yours is inspiring. The Composer Brothers is the most clever addition. I've been debating whether or not (or even how) to include them on my roster for about a month now. I'm thrilled to see someone else include them! I'm gonna take a jab at revising your roster just to see what kind of structure I could discern from its selection. Good work duder.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I thought Deku Nut was a bit strange ;P Dark Nut is a bit too generic for my taste too, unfortunately.

Not that Dark Nut and Stalfos wouldn't work, they definitely could, it's just controversial to add minor enemies as playable characters in Smash.

Wolf Link/Midna would be a great entry since I guess the chance of seeing Amateratsu in Smash is negligible...

Well, it was my idea to include some generic enemies to it as well. Otherwise it would just be the heroes vs Ganon incarations. Oh, and Ghirahim and Skull Kid. So I added some cool enemies which are most iconic to each game, as Spear Moblin, Boklobins and Dark Nuts.

Thought Arcadenik's roster was the best as well.

 

[Arcadenik]

Got Hyrule Historia from Amazon in the mail today... good read. Interesting tidbits about Impa...

Turns out Impa was gonna be in Twilight Princess but as Old Man Impa but then they decided to go with Impaz.

Oh, and Impa in Skyward Sword was gonna be Fat Impa like in Oracle series but in the same clothes that Impa is wearing in Skyward Sword.

 

[Banjodorf]

^^

I've got my copy too! It's fantastic!


Sci-fi suit Zelda in the very first game might've meant interesting things for the series...


Also, I REALLY hope one day they decide to do a Zelda fighting game based on the roster up there.


Fierce Deity Link vs. Twilight Princess Ganondorf is a battle for the ages.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Got Hyrule Historia from Amazon in the mail today... good read. Interesting tidbits about Impa...

Turns out Impa was gonna be in Twilight Princess but as Old Man Impa but then they decided to go with Impaz.

Oh, and Impa in Skyward Sword was gonna be Fat Impa like in Oracle series but in the same clothes that Impa is wearing in Skyward Sword.

Whoa seriously?

Do you have a picture of beta Twilight Princess Impa?

 

[Arcadenik]

Whoa seriously?

Do you have a picture of beta Twilight Princess Impa?

It is just concept art, much like the "Twilight Princess" Sheik concept art. It's on page 186.

How do I describe Old Man Impa? A decrepit-looking mustachioed Sheikah in blue overalls and a green/purple stocking cap.

 

[Gene]

I'd like to see a pic of sci-fi suit Zelda. *google searches*

 

[Arcadenik]

I'd like to see a pic of sci-fi suit Zelda. *google searches*

Ohhh!!! Zelda's concept art for A Link to the Past. Yeah, it is on page 143.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I kind of like it. Maybe she should walk around in a bathing suit bottom all the time

Edit:

LOL, Impa's Twilight Princess design was a man.

Impa was going to be a man in the game

Also, was a different character than Impaz

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Is there anywhere I can find these pictures? I don't have the book.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What we should do is make references from the book, so that people that don't have it get really confused and frustrated.

Like that design of X on page X should totally be the design in smash

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, thb I thought OoT's Impa was a man untill she got specifically called a 'she'. It slightly disturbed me. But Sheik was far worse still.

 

[Curious Villager]

Oh gosh, I was planning to go and buy Paper Mario Sticker Star today at Game because I got bored with my current 3DS game's until I suddenly found Hyrule Historia lying on the shelves there. I was quite surprised to see it there since I was under the impression you could only order it online.

Eitherway, since Hyrule Historia was cheaper than Paper Mario, I bought that instead. Having a look through today. The art and everything looks pretty interesting. I will certainly use most of the concept art as references in my future drawing's. Their perfect for that.

Anyway's, I will have to hold off buying Paper Mario until I have saved up enough for the Wii U I guess.

So to make a long story short: I've got Hyrule Historia as well.

Most of the interesting stuff are already put on the internet though so I believe you can find them all through a quick search on places like the Zelda wiki etc.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'd say you should of waited until Fire Emblem came out, but if your buying something at "Game" your probably in Europe or something and it'll be a while until it comes out