Zelda Franchise Discussion

[bubbaking]

Holy cow, the mother of all posts in this thread!

Zelda and Sheik have the same exact size and weight. Impa is much taller than Zelda, and given that she's as skinny as Waluigi, she would be lighter in comparison to her.
Already, the balance is shifted.

Woah, woah, woah, dial it back! Where in the world did you get the assumption that taller + thinner = lighter? If anything, being taller makes you heavier but being thinner makes you lighter, so it all balances out. To prove my point, Mario and Luigi are the exact same weight (not falling speed) in all three Smash games, despite ol' Lean 'n Green being taller and.....well, leaner.

Which is why the best option would be to revamp Zelda and make her better, keep Sheik, and make Impa her own character with her own set of moves. Where as Zelda/Sheik would be the "Mage vs. Ninja" fighter. Impa would be the best of both worlds, being both a mage AND a ninja.

THIS I can agree with. I honestly would rather have Impa in some shape or form over SS Zelda (although I wouldn't mind both) so if we have Zelda from one series (OoT or TP) and Impa from another (OoT/SS), then that would be fine.

For one, the Sheilda fighting style does significantly better than Sheik alone or Zelda alone in matchups.

Unfortunately, this is utter theorycrafting and is not actually true in practice for literally every single MU in both Melee and Brawl except for certain MUs in Brawl where both chars already lose pretty badly (such as Sheilda vs Pika).

And two, no other character is able to switch forms at will with the press of a button command, as I've already explained (but little Diddy don't listen to anything that makes him wrong).
Samus can't turn into Zero Suit Samus and back again at will. This requires a Final Smash. At most, Samus can turn into Zero Suit using a rapid flurry of taunts, but Zero Suit can't turn back, making Samus impossible in typical no-item matches once Zero Suit is in play.
Pokemon Trainer? Switching through multiple Pokemon is a required mechanic due to the Stamina gimmick. Also, Pokemon are automatically switched out when KOed. A Zelda player can switch to Sheik whenever they want with no negative side effects and vice versa.

To be fair, PT's and Samus' switching mechanics can just be changed to somewhat match Sheilda's transformation mechanic if we lose Sheilda. I think every Brawl PT user is in favor of making it so that the Pokemon aren't forced to switch during the match.

Except that unlike Sheik, Tetra is just how that Zelda was raised. She cannot voluntary transform between the two; Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule is the one that made her appear as Zelda, and his magic wore off when he drowned.

Well, I mean, it could still happen and we'd ignore the small details. TP Zelda never transformed into Sheik and it was never displayed that she could even change her physical features, but no one batted an eye when she transformed into Sheik in Brawl.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa could indeed have both similarities to Sheik and Zelda yeah. If they COULD manage to put both in the game, sure, I'd be in for it. Just don't think that scenario is all too likely however.

Damn, we have a serious lack of space for awesome Zelda characters.

 

[W1nedown]

To be honest Ghirahim is the perfect balance compared to the popular Zelda roster
Hes can be faster than Ganon, Stronger than Zelda, harness more mage like attacks than Impa (who he smashed in Skyward), and contest Links swordsmanship in a duel. He teleports, uses a sword, as well as magic and (*the trending word of the day*) is just fabulous!Hes got my vote!!!

This. I get the feeling that people here don't want Impa, not because she's a bad character but rather because they feel threatened that Sheik would be replaced with Impa.

Ya darn right from the videos ive watched on Impa she just seems to play a good role in the story, but you can't deny Ghirahim gets your blood boiling!!! His moves arent exaggerated in the gameplay like Ganons is, but the story behind him can very well stay for later LOZ games

 

[bubbaking]

Except that Ghirahim was destroyed in SS, so it would be really hard for him to be brought back for a later LoZ game. Also, you might want to watch the double posts. Use the "Edit" feature.

Impa is a larger and presumably lighter character.

Already proved how this isn't necessarily true. Larger =/= lighter. That's counter-intuitive.

And Sheik's inclusion sure wouldn't stop Sakurai from including Impa, now would it?

Yes, this is a very excellent point.

You can't really say major text references don't count. If that's the case, then I could argue Zelda isn't really that important until the third game because you never see her on-screen and she never plays a major role as a 'person' and not some diddly 'concept' until the end of the game.

Who is the series named after? Zelda.
What is the story of the early games about? Saving Zelda. She's the major plot point.

Without Zelda, there would be no point of the story, and no game.

Lolz, looks like you missed the word "concept" in my post. A "plot point" and a 'namesake' were all Zelda was for those two games, just concepts, not an actual person. In the grand scheme of things, that's just as bad as only being referred to in a manual. Impa's involvement has grown along with Zelda's. In both games where Zelda actually features heavily into the storyline's progression (OoT and SS), Impa has always been featured as an important character, as a sage and a guardian. In the games where Zelda's kind of important (Oracle games, etc), Impa is kind of important as well.

Take Impa out of the manuals, and nothing changes. Literally, since she doesn't appear in the games to begin with.

And you're comparing a story arc to a number of minor appearances of a character (with a pair of less minor appearances) in a far larger series. Seriously?

We were talking fractions. You could compare the fracton of 1st person Metroid shooters to the fraction of LoZ games where Impa is important. Also, as Diddy said, without Impa, many of the LoZ games simply wouldn't have happened.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Ghirahim gets in, I don't think he'd be the only Skyward Sword character. Impa would surely join Ghirahim.

 

[Gene]

I could see that happening. I'd prefer Impa over Ghiraham but there's no rule that's stopping them both from appearing in smash 4.

About Ganondorf, I think WW(HD) Ganondorf would be a good choice to have this time around. Plus I want to see those two swords put to use...hopefully.

 

[Curious Villager]

Wind Waker Ganondorf should definitely be the next in line for smash. He's my most favourite of the three Ganondorf's in the series currently and he will be epic if we get to play as him with his two swords! :D

 

[Diddy Kong]

Really, I just can't make up my mind on how I'd want the Zelda roster to be represented. I think it hugely relies on how many Mario / Pokemon characters will be in, as Zelda always had roughly as many characters as those two series. Estimating they'd both have 6 characters on their roster I'd guess:

Skyward Sword characters:
Link
Zelda
Impa

Wind Waker characters:
Link
Ganondorf
Tetra (with or without Toon Zelda)

That way, the only real changes would be in the individual movesets.

-Link should get revamped to play a little faster and be about as strong with landing KOs as in Melee / 64. Boomerang gets replaced with Skyward Strike. Spin Attack in the air will become the vertical Spin Attack and gains slightly more distance when recovering.
-Zelda should get revamped to have more range, and have better safe options. Din's Fire also needs to be more useful, and Nayru's Love could have more range.
-Impa is a revamped Sheik and a separate character from Zelda. Uses a strong barrier attack, a fighting style similar to Kung Fu, magic attacks that could possibly slow down time and maybe even Deku Nuts as Down B.
-Toon Link gets Luigified even further. And keeps the Boomerang, can randomly have Fire / Ice effects on Arrows when fully charged. Up B can be charged and acts like the actual Hurricane Spin from Wind Waker. Could possibly use the Skull Hammer for Down Smash?
-Ganondorf gets most of his moves revamped, except for Forward Aerial, Down Aerial, Up Aerial, Forward B aka Flame Choke, but keeps a few Luigified moves as a new Down B which'd be a shadowly teleporting attack that covers similar distance as his Wizard Foot would (and can assist in recovery). Up B gets further Luigified and looks more like a levitation sort of move. All his other attacks are used with his twin blades however. Very counter-heavy and defensive, yet remains awfully strong.
-Tetra gains most of Sheik's old specials, but revamped. Needles would be Throwing Daggers, Chain would be the Grappling Hook, and Up B is that one kickflip she attempts on Ganondorf in that one cutscene he kicks Toon Link's *** in Wind Waker. A very fast character, but lacks some KO options. Could have Toon Zelda as Down B, but I don't think she really needs that. Neither do I think a Toon Zelda has better / different enough options for a moveset than regular Zelda, outside of maybe Light Arrows as specials. So I have Tetra alone.

 

[bubbaking]

I don't understand why anyone would even think sheik will be cut.

I'm pretty sure many people thought the same thing about Mewtwo, pretty much the ONLY non-clone character to be cut from Smash. Look what happened. In fact, if anything, Brawl has taught us that Sakurai is not averse to replacing characters with new ones and changing their movesets almost completely. Sheik to Impa may be bad for some of you, but it's not nearly as bad as Mewtwo to Lucario or Roy to Ike.

Besides, if Pit was already retro in Melee's time (2001) and considering the original KI's release in 1987... now considering SSB4 will be released in 2014/2015... and Ocarina of Time was originally released in 1998... shall we do the math?

2001 - 1987 = 14
2014 - 1998 = 16

Therefore, Sheik is as retro as Pit was in Melee's time? o.o

Uhhh, this is confusing but.....aren't you comparing these games to the wrong Smash iterations? To analyze if Sheik is as 'retro' as Pit, you should be comparing Brawl's release date (Pit's debut in Smash) to Pit's latest (and only) game at the time. Likewise, you should be comparing Melee's release date (Sheik's debut in Smash) to Sheik's latest (and only) game at the time. If you do that math, you get:

• Pit: 2008 - 1987 = 21
• Sheik: 2001 - 1998 = 3

Even if you wanted to compare how 'retro' Sheik would be in Smash 4 to how 'retro' Pit would be, first off, you'd have to use the same game for comparison because they would BOTH be returning Smash veterans, and in that case, the outcome would be:

• Pit: 2014 - 1987 = 27
• Sheik: 2014 - 1998 = 16

Even IF you wanted to compare how 'retro' Sheik would be in Smash 4 to how 'retro' Pit was when he was first included in Brawl, you'd still get Pit's 21 years compared to Sheik's 16 years. No matter how you cut it, Pit would always be more 'retro' than Sheik was.

Ah, whatever... nothing stops Sheik and Impa appearing at the same time.

Again, a very excellent point.

Smash bros is a second party game actually. And sheik was in OOT3D

Uh, what does this mean? I thought that Super Smash Bros was always a first-party game series because Nintendo directly developed, published, and released it. Come to think of it, what even IS a "second-party game"? I've only heard of first- and third-parties.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Really wasn't too sure about what 1st and 2nd party is either. But I heard games like Golden Sun are mostly second party? Don't have a better example. But anyway, there is a pretty clear difference in the importance of a Sheik in a game like Scribblenauts or a costume in Tekken Wii U, and Zelda / Smash Bros. And that's where I was getting at.

I'd want Sheik vs Impa as well in Smash, but I really don't think that'll happen. If it happens, ALL THE BETTER. I could finally beat up Sheik as Impa.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Uh, what does this mean? I thought that Super Smash Bros was always a first-party game series because Nintendo directly developed, published, and released it. Come to think of it, what even IS a "second-party game"? I've only heard of first- and third-parties.

It's something a company within a company develops. Pokemon is the greatest example. It is developed by Gamefreak but it still owned by Nintendo.

 

[Big-Cat]

Not quite. A second party developer is a developer that's partially owned (typically a majority hold) that does not exist inhouse. Rare was a second party developer until 2002. Retro was a second party studio with Prime until it was later purchased in its entirety. HAL Labs is another game that is considered second party if I recall.

 

[W1nedown]

If Ghirahim gets in, I don't think he'd be the only Skyward Sword character. Impa would surely join Ghirahim.

Thats stupid nobody likes her and didn't she like fade away? thats like adding lady chiyo in naruto storm series a big waste of space. What would she do drop energy blasts and create shields of blue light.....

Ghirahim made himself known throughout the game. They gave him style, charisma, and overall character! Im impa the guardian.........................ok so,................

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

He's a one shot character.

Zant and Midna had the same kind of support during the pre-brawl days

No one even cares about zant now

 

[Diddy Kong]

Impa is badass, that's why.

Fading away is still better than turning into a sword and then getting your *** kicked.

 

[SmashShadow]

Thats stupid nobody likes her and didn't she like fade away? thats like adding lady chiyo in naruto storm series a big waste of space. What would she do drop energy blasts and create shields of blue light.....

And what's wrong with that?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't think Ghirahim will get in unless he appears in one more game. If he doesn't than he's in the same boat as Zant, Midna and Wolf Link. Trophies and nothing more.

In all honesty the most likely brand new Zelda character will probably be Tingle.

 

[Arcadenik]

In all honesty the most likely brand new Zelda character will probably be Tingle.

Oh, how I wish this to be true. I'd love to play as Tingle in Smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Thing with Impa is though, she can always be replaced again by Sheik if she'd "somehow" get a new appearance in Zelda by the time a Smash Wii Z, or W (double U lolz) comes out.

In that respect, Impa is in a good position with being kinda similar to Sheik.

 

[Arcadenik]

Haha. Wii W is pretty clever, actually. Also, when you turn W to its side, it would look like 3. Therefore Wii W = Wii 3.

 

[bubbaking]

Thats stupid nobody likes her and didn't she like fade away? thats like adding lady chiyo in naruto storm series a big waste of space. What would she do drop energy blasts and create shields of blue light.....

Ghirahim made himself known throughout the game. They gave him style, charisma, and overall character! Im impa the guardian.........................ok so,................

This post is so biased I don't even know where to begin. "Nobody likes her"? This thread SCREAMS otherwise. "Didn't she fade away"? Well yeah, so did Ghirahim. At least Impa faded away after doing something as epic and inhuman as waiting several decades (maybe longer) to help Zelda and Link. Lady Chiyo IS in the Naruto Storm series (as well as the Naruto: CoN series) and she's arguably awesome in both. "Dropping energy blasts" and "creating shields of blue light" is a GREAT start. Sheik's moveset never existed in LoZ except for her transformation and her vanishing explosion. Impa could easily have a moveset made for her, especially with inspiration drawn from both the SS and OoT Impas.

Ghirahim, in my mind, is practically Zant, and that's why I don't really like him that much. He's a 'gimmick' that was already exploited in TP. He's the over-emotional, egotistical 'almost-main bad guy' who is completely usurped in the end by the much more bad-*** true main villain.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I like where this thread is going. It seems like smart people like to post more here nowadays.

 

[Aipom]

I honestly think Tingle would make a nice addition. No casuals would ever expect him. As for the rest of the slots...
1. Link obviously
2. Zelda/ Sheik (could care less about Sheik, i'll take her or leave her)
3. Ganondorf (some form. regular or toon. still unsure)
4. Tingle (per reason above)
5. Toon Link (while i'm not a fan, i'm sure he'll stay in)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Toon Link will definitely be back again yeah. And he'll probably get a game after a while anyway, so he'll probably
stay in Smash forever.

 

[Arcadenik]

Skyward Sword
Link (he needs to be as good/fast as he was in Melee at the very least)
Zelda (new down+B, increase her speed since she's always on the run from Ghirahim)
Impa (basically a renamed Sheik with new down+B, maybe that barrier move Diddy was always raving about)

Wind Waker
Toon Link (please add some Wind Waker items like Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer, and Fire & Ice Arrows this time)
Ganondorf (must be decloned, must use dual swords, must be speedy or at least as fast as Melee Ganondorf, no more excuses for being a Captain Falcon clone)

Toon Zelda, Tetra, and Tingle may be relevant again but I don't think they are getting in unless Sakurai needs last minute clones of Zelda, Impa, and Balloon Fighter to buff the roster.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Those 5 alone would be sexy enough. But yeah, would also like Tetra. Just because.

 

[TheCreator]

Ghirahim, in my mind, is practically Zant, and that's why I don't really like him that much. He's a 'gimmick' that was already exploited in TP. He's the over-emotional, egotistical 'almost-main bad guy' who is completely usurped in the end by the much more bad-*** true main villain.

Omfg this so hard. I don't know how many times I've said this.

Although, I don't see Impa getting in this game either. Sheik just has no reason to go anywhere, and Impa isn't really important. I see Tingle getting in before Impa tbh.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sheik has plenty of reasons to leave, and she already had these same reasons pre-Brawl. Just now, they've became a lot more noticeable and we finally have a valid replacement.

 

[W1nedown]

STFU All of you Impa has no depth! No character......Ghirahim has evreything that Impa doesn't, Every appearance he made in SS left you wanting more, an more and more. He's everything a villain should be. your all mad because this is true and now everyone wants to reminisce on the good ol days Impa/tinkle,voti blah blah blah who cares?

 

[Second Power]

Ghirahim, in my mind, is practically Zant, and that's why I don't really like him that much. He's a 'gimmick' that was already exploited in TP. He's the over-emotional, egotistical 'almost-main bad guy' who is completely usurped in the end by the much more bad-*** true main villain.

Ghirahim is more similar to Vaati than Zant. It would at least make sense for him to return, seeing as he's the counterpart to the Mastersword. Ghirahim is strong, and death means virtually nothing in the Zelda universe. Zant is an ordinary Twili without Gannondorf. If he returned, it would be seen (and be, period) half-***ed. And, Demise isn't the main villian of Skyward Sword. He does nothing besides fight Link in the game. Litterally nothing. Your goal in the game wasn't stopping Demise's evil plot, it was Ghirahim's. I think I've made this comparison before, but saying Demise is the main villian of SS means you're saying that Palpitine is the main villian of the first Star Wars movie instead of Darth Vader.

 

[Diddy Kong]

STFU All of you Impa has no depth! No character......Ghirahim has evreything that Impa doesn't, Every appearance he made in SS left you wanting more, an more and more. He's everything a villain should be. your all mad because this is true and now everyone wants to reminisce on the good ol days Impa/tinkle,voti blah blah blah who cares?

Ask me nicely the next time to STFU and.. Well **** it I ain't ****ing shutting my mouth.

Queerahim, as I like to call him doesn't have much personality himself. He's an overhyped weak boss fight only promoted so much cause after Tingle, he's about the most homosexual thing to ever come out of Zelda. Except Tingle actually gets some. he's on part with the Flight Fowl Guy from Twilight Princess. Plus, he's just a one-off. And will stay that.

Impa has personality plenty. She's cocky, slightly arrogant, but helpfull. Quite a very overlooked character, untill you finish the game. Where you basically get mind ****ed by her. Queerahim couldn't do that.

But honestly, if Ghirahim makes it. Expect Impa as well. Impa has the edge cause of her similarities to Sheik, and her being reoccuring in the series, and been there from the start. Anyone who doesn't want to see that seems to me is in pretty big denial.

 

[W1nedown]

Ask me nicely the next time to STFU and.. Well **** it I ain't ****ing shutting my mouth.

Queerahim, as I like to call him doesn't have much personality himself. He's an overhyped weak boss fight only promoted so much cause after Tingle, he's about the most homosexual thing to ever come out of Zelda. Except Tingle actually gets some. he's on part with the Flight Fowl Guy from Twilight Princess. Plus, he's just a one-off. And will stay that.

Impa has personality plenty. She's cocky, slightly arrogant, but helpfull. Quite a very overlooked character, untill you finish the game. Where you basically get mind ****ed by her. Queerahim couldn't do that.

But honestly, if Ghirahim makes it. Expect Impa as well. Impa has the edge cause of her similarities to Sheik, and her being reoccuring in the series, and been there from the start. Anyone who doesn't want to see that seems to me is in pretty big denial.

Someones mad that the G~Man has a bigger fanbase than "I wish I was fabulous impa." Anyway, Cool story bro! Tell it again And Im not gay nor a homophobe sir, so keep the gay jokes to urself!!!

 

[Big-Cat]

Although, I don't see Impa getting in this game either. Sheik just has no reason to go anywhere, and Impa isn't really important. I see Tingle getting in before Impa tbh.

Thing with Impa is that she really rose to prominence in Skyward Sword, more so than any other game she was in. This COULD indicate a new change of direction for her, namely to be more prominent in future Zelda games which makes sense as she's always been Zelda's guardian/nanny depending on the game.

A common thing most people don't take into account is what they'll be doing with the characters in the future. Ghirahim may show up again. Tingle showed up in future games despite his perceived one time appearance in Majora's Mask.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Someones mad that the G~Man has a bigger fanbase than "I wish I was fabulous impa." Anyway, Cool story bro! Tell it again And Im not gay nor a homophobe sir, so keep the gay jokes to urself!!!

If you just checked around this thread you'll notice just a handful of Ghirahim supporters. Besides the occasional cool dude, nobody with a sane mind expects your 'G~Man'. Keep the conclusions for yourself. And keep doing your best in pre school!

 

[Arcadenik]

Thing with Impa is that she really rose to prominence in Skyward Sword, more so than any other game she was in. This COULD indicate a new change of direction for her, namely to be more prominent in future Zelda games which makes sense as she's always been Zelda's guardian/nanny depending on the game.

A common thing most people don't take into account is what they'll be doing with the characters in the future. Ghirahim may show up again. Tingle showed up in future games despite his perceived one time appearance in Majora's Mask.

Thing is... they reuse NPC's, not villain/sidekick-of-the-month. That's why you see Tingle, Beedle, Postman, Deku Tree, etc. in more than one game and why you only see Navi, Sheik, Midna, Zant, etc. in only one game.

 

[Big-Cat]

Sidekicks and villains are NPC's too, but I see what you mean.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What 'nik said.

Plus, there's a hint for a second playable character for Zelda Wii U. Could easily be Impa.

Inb4 4 Links again...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I honestly think this guy is trolling.

Impa (SS version at least) was just as memorable than Ghirahim imo. The only difference is that we KNOW that Impa will return someday while Ghirahim most likely won't. Impa is a recurring character (like Tingle ) and has been since Zelda II. She's more important than a one time villain.

 

[Diddy Kong]

She was also heavily mentioned in Twilight Princess by Impaz. Ghirahim could return, sure, but he'll likely be another Majora.

 

[W1nedown]

You all are blind and are sleeping on Ghirahims potential like "kabuto in naruto shippuden," until he came back as fu**ing DRAGON!!! Ghirahim is the movement now and when Sakurai first releases screenshots of him ill be back LMFAO......*snaps fingerz*.......(disappears)