Zelda Custom Moves - Because Din's Fire never looked like that anyway

[Brinzy]

Nayru's Love has a lot going for it this game that sets the bar high for any potential alternates. Invulnerability frames for legit counterattacks, reliable multihitting, reflection, and a large hit window to help counter rolls and dodges. Nayru's Passion lacks all of those things. I really wish I could say the Nayru's alts were decent for competition... but they're not.

At least the Phantom variations seem to have their fans. Phantom Strike has grown on me enough to actually run it most of the time.

My thoughts exactly. I hit Nayru's Love far more than ever before in this game, especially against roll-happy characters like Mac if I feel I know they won't shield but don't know what they'll do after that. Powershielding is great, but countering attacks with Nayru's Love also works extremely well this time around. It's probably one of her top moves IMO.

Still have yet to get any Phantom alternatives, personally. i can't get into the habit of using it outside of edge-guarding.

 

[ZombieBran]

Yeah, the intangibility frames in Nayru's are really great. After playing PM that was one of my most wanted buffs for Zelda in SSB4 and she got it! (Too bad almost none of my other wants happened but I'll take what I can get)

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Yeah, the intangibility frames in Nayru's are really great. After playing PM that was one of my most wanted buffs for Zelda in SSB4 and she got it! (Too bad almost none of my other wants happened but I'll take what I can get)

She's actually always had the intangible frames on Nayru's, even in Melee. It was the unreliable or escapable multihits that made the move bad despite that, though. You could counter an attack with Nayru's with the right timing yet still be left unsafe or punishable. Now that the multihits are actually reliable in Smash4, the move is golden. Fsmash/Usmash, on the other hand...

As for Din's Flare, I find it's not the way to go against characters with a fast, spammable projectile. If you get hit with a laser or a needle while casting this it will go sailing past your opponent each time, while with Fire or Blaze you can still aim it into the ground to detonate it at their feet so they can't just freely spam you. Flare doesn't seem to force approaches as the hitting space is even narrower than Fire, making it that much easier to dodge despite being faster. The one exception I can think of might be Rosalina, since the Luma can't dodge projectiles and could be KO'd by one hit of this near the edge.

I was initially excited for Din's Blaze but the release lag is way too long. In addition, the hitbox doesn't extend to the graphic and it sourspots quite often. Vanilla Din's Fire, as bad as the rap it has, is probably the best option of the three.

 

[Rion]

You know Zelda's custom Din's are just that horrible when one says "the default is the best one".

It's so sad...

 

[Brinzy]

She's actually always had the intangible frames on Nayru's, even in Melee. It was the unreliable or escapable multihits that made the move bad despite that, though. You could counter an attack with Nayru's with the right timing yet still be left unsafe or punishable. Now that the multihits are actually reliable in Smash4, the move is golden. Fsmash/Usmash, on the other hand...

Ok so it isn't just me that feels these moves are harder to hit this time around.

I feel at this point they should just give her new attacks. Brawl smashes were her best imo. I legitimately would rather have her Melee Fsmash than what we have now.

 

[BJN39]

Ok so it isn't just me that feels these moves are harder to hit this time around.

I feel at this point they should just give her new attacks. Brawl smashes were her best imo. I legitimately would rather have her Melee Fsmash than what we have now.

^ Why? It was worse in almost every way statistically. The only thing I THINK is better about it is one less frame of end lag. Otherwise it had less power, and range, and was even LESS consistent at connecting all 5 hits.

 

[Brinzy]

I just whiffed three Fsmashes on a level 1 Ganon CPU, two of which put him right on top of me instead.

At least in Melee, when you hit the the smash, the electricity came out so fast that it was easier to chain. Maybe I'm not remembering well, but I generally didn't have problems with the move connecting properly when it landed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zYvzIYl3Iw

^ Me messing around with bots years ago. Didn't seem to have the same problem as now.


I know bots and players aren't the same. I'm just demonstrating the difference I have between bots.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I just whiffed three Fsmashes on a level 1 Ganon CPU, two of which put him right on top of me instead.

At least in Melee, when you hit the the smash, the electricity came out so fast that it was easier to chain. Maybe I'm not remembering well, but I generally didn't have problems with the move connecting properly when it landed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zYvzIYl3Iw

^ Me messing around with bots years ago. Didn't seem to have the same problem as now.


I know bots and players aren't the same. I'm just demonstrating the difference I have between bots.

That's because you're playing on the versions on Melee that have the 1% multihits actually work properly for the most part. It's amazing what just one frame of hitlag can allow in that game.

 

[Brinzy]

Oh...

I had no idea they even did such a thing.

 

[BJN39]

Yeah, most players had to drudge though "automatically FAILS to connect" Fsmashes in Melee. It was consistently like your description off 'whiffed' Fsmash in SSB4, only it happened 80% of the time.

 

[ZombieBran]

SoR is right though, Brawl Zelda's smashes were just better overall. I really miss the huge u-smash of doom.

I don't know why her f-smashes are never reliable. If it's not one thing it's another. It can't possibly be that hard to test.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I will be completely honest right now

If Zelda had Brawl's smash attacks (with the hold up to escape part gone), and Project M Din's Fire and Melee fair/bair, she'd be mid or possibly even high tier in Smash 4.

Why can't the balance team do anything right. I hope they see Conquest Zelda get completely and utterly destroyed and decide to patch her.

 

[Kayeka]

Conquest is a popularity contest, not a proper way to measure match-ups. I doubt Nintendo would base such decisions of that.

Then again, they occasionally make some pretty bad decisions, so they just might. Fingers crossed for a buffed Zelda for any reason.

 

[ZombieBran]

I don't know how Conquest works (and a search provides very little information)
If it works purely off win percentage, instead of total character usage, I can very easily see them using it to determine which characters are weaker/stronger.

I know that Zelda does better online than she ever will in tournaments purely because sooo many people online love to roll for days and it's very easy for her to get kills off of that. So even if they actually do balance patches, they'll probably buff her negligibly or in all the wrong places. Then again, the same can be said for much of the cast so whatever.

 

[Rion]

I will be completely honest right now

If Zelda had Brawl's smash attacks (with the hold up to escape part gone), and Project M Din's Fire and Melee fair/bair, she'd be mid or possibly even high tier in Smash 4.

Why can't the balance team do anything right. I hope they see Conquest Zelda get completely and utterly destroyed and decide to patch her.

On this note... what changes would be nice on top of those:

- Nair having a whole body hitbox ala sex kick.
- Being able to shorten Farore's Wind with a B press or something.
- A Ness brand Back Throw.
- Storeable charged Phantom.
- Overlapping invulnerability and hitbox frames for Nayru's
- Brawl UAir
- Brawl KO Utilt (maybe)

I believe someone said at one point that Zelda was too much glass and not enough cannon in this iteration. I would have to agree.

Better start getting ready for Project M: Wii U Edition (whenever that would ever happen).

 

[KuroganeHammer]

The balance in this game is actually pretty good

It's really just all the Zelda characters that suck

Sakurai is probably just mad that Zelda outsells all his franchises.

 

[Rion]

The balance in this game is actually pretty good

It's really just all the Zelda characters that suck

Sakurai is probably just mad that Zelda outsells all his franchises.

I am actually so sure that Sakurai has a secret vendetta against the Zelda franchise. Never has there been a high tier Zelda franchise character.

Fated to mediocrity noooo...

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I am actually so sure that Sakurai has a secret vendetta against the Zelda franchise. Never has there been a high tier Zelda franchise character.

Fated to mediocrity noooo...

Sheik in melee and smash 4

either it was a mistake or sheik is the only character from zelda he likes.

 

[ZombieBran]

Sheik!
But Sheik is a ninja and popular so she has to be good

 

[Rion]

I stand corrected! I always forget about that bloody ninja woman.

 

[ZombieBran]

Sheik being much better than Zelda in every Smash just reminds me how bad their testers must be.
Like, who could even see these two characters and think "Balance!"

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Sheik being much better than Zelda in every Smash just reminds me how bad their testers must be.
Like, who could even see these two characters and think "Balance!"

The same people who thought "Ganondorf does 30%+ with a fully charged fsmash! Let's make everything else terrible because otherwise we'll have to nerf it! Up tilt is also too strong! Nerf pls!"

 

[ZombieBran]

My heart legit broke when I read Ganondorf's Smash 4 alt trophy.
"great choice for free for alls"!

It's like they just gave up on him.

 

[Rion]

My heart legit broke when I read Ganondorf's Smash 4 alt trophy.
"great choice for free for alls"!

It's like they just gave up on him.

Yeah, maybe if it's Time or something...

What if it's Stock? There's gonna be a 1VS1 eventually-!

Not good, not good.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

My heart legit broke when I read Ganondorf's Smash 4 alt trophy.
"great choice for free for alls"!

It's like they just gave up on him.

It was already like this in Melee: "Ganondorf's slow speed works against him in single combat, but in melees, his crazy power lets him earn his keep with innumerable KOs. Ganondorf can't strike quickly, but each blow he lands adds up. Ganondorf is at his quickest when he uses the Wizard's Foot, and his Dark Dive blasts foes in a burst of dark energy."
http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_SSBM_trophies_(The_Legend_of_Zelda_series)

 

[ZombieBran]

Seriously, Sakurai and team, stop trying to balance characters across game modes

we fujin now

 

[Kayeka]

Sooo, what about those custom moves? pretty nifty, huh?

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Still in Melee: "Zelda is a bit slow and, because of her light frame, easy to send flying. On the other hand, her magical skills lend her reliable and explosive attack power. Zelda's easier to use if you focus on waiting and countering rather than pressing attacks. She can use Nayru's Love to reflect projectile attacks or as an offensive weapon."

Why Sakurai.

 

[BJN39]

. She can use Nayru's Love to reflect projectile attacks or as an offensive weapon."

Why Sakurai.

Yeah, Nayru's IS an offensive weapon.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Yeah, Nayru's IS an offensive weapon.

Well that's more the sentence "reliable attack power" that makes me laugh.

 

[Kataefi]

*Throws out Fsmash*

*1% damage yesssss!*

 

[BJN39]

*Throws out stale Usmash*

*0.5% damage yessssss!*

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

*Throws out powerful orb of fire*

*Countered by a basic attack, yesssss!*

 

[Katy Parry]

Okay, so which Phantom is the Best to use?

Phantom Breaker? I guess if the two hits are shielded it will break their shield, right?

So far my ideal set up is only changing the Phantom. Din's Fire is still strong in its core, and it's spammable enough from a distance to try to snipe with. I much prefer having control over where its going over having more speed. The core is still a kill move even without charging it, and with my play style, I don't wish to give that up.

The faster version in my opinion is more avoidable, as they can run right past it before we can release.

I just HATE that if you start charging, opponents can just jump over to you and attack with an aerial.

I also hate how I can't use it on characters with reflectors. The end lag of Phantom is too serious. I wish she could cancel the end lag with Nayru's only or something.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

*Throws out Fsmash*

*1% damage yesssss!*

If only this happened regularly after a Fsmash fallout.

 

[Kataefi]

^See?... The triforce works its magic in very mysterious ways

I had my first all-was-right-with-the-world moment with her usmash, funnily enough on Corneria as well.

I'm thinking we should pick this stage more often...

 

[BJN39]

^See?... The triforce works its magic in very mysterious ways

I had my first all-was-right-with-the-world moment with her usmash, funnily enough on Corneria as well.

I'm thinking we should pick this stage more often...

I had an everything-was-right-in-the-world moment when, after a greninja DAired my shield, I Usmashed, and he DAir'ed again. The moves traded, and he went straight down and left while accidentally using a third DAir and SD'ed. >xD

 

[CandyCakes]

https://game8.jp/matome/14157

Here is the Japan tier list and she's in the low-mid tier... I honestly expected her to be higher but I'll take it