Zelda Custom Moves - Because Din's Fire never looked like that anyway

[.Shìkì]

Thanks for the video. It was a good source of new info. With that said...

The other Nayru's variations don't look good. #2 looks punishable on hit, and #3 only has windboxes before the explosion. Your opponent would have to be exceedingly slow or have made a huge error to not be able to interrupt/block this. Losing the reflect function on top of that kills it. Base Nayru's might be the best thing here.

Din's #2 actually looks useful for applying pressure in ranged combat, but with what happened to Brawl Din's early on it's something that needs to be used in play to get a good judge of. #3 looks bad because of the horrid release lag, which is a shame because it otherwise could've been good for certain players.

Farore's #2 actually looks like something that would damage foes in her travel path (why else would there be an energy ball showing the teleport?), but I couldn't really tell what it did from the video. The higher startup is what we're already used to in Melee/Brawl/PM, if that winds up being the case then it could be worth using. I couldn't really tell what #3 did in the video, either.

Phantom Slash #2 looks to be the best of the lot if only because the uncharged version actually goes a good distance, which the shield damage being gravy. This is honestly what the move needs to fill a niche in Zelda's ranged game. #3 doesn't look good for this reason, as she has plenty of ways to hit hard from up close.

Just leaving this here: Only having windboxes and turning them around might make for a nice gimping tool as it shouldn't give enemies their second jump back , it depend whether or not it ends quickly enough to get back to the stage though. It also retains the reflection part of it, so maybe a "weaker", slower shine ? X) But yeah most special moves of her don'T seem that great, especially since large stages that would make Din's Sniping , or complicated ones that woulde make Dins lingering viable are usually banned in competitive play, anyways, the standard Faroes is the best of the three, and for the phantom...that needs more testing. Although i like the last one because it has no blindspot even if you charge it and it looks like it could be a nice edgeguarding and/or gimping tool (as it CAN be used in the air, and the farther off the edge/below the edge its used, the easier even the uncharged Phantom 3 will net a kill). I wonder if charging it hits people hanging on the ledge since the swipe hits in a circlemotion from below upwards... If so, i think i found the custom Phantom I'll be using.

Oh and as for the explosive Nayrus, it could be nice because it sucks people in so it has a better range effectively, but NEVER use it against enemies like Mega Man, Rob, Robin or Bowser Jr. Their ranged attacks you could be reflecting HURT, especially Mega Mans since it is his freaking sidesmash. But Thoron, and ESPECIALLY Thoron 2 (meaning Thoron variant 2) HURT. Like, a LOT. Thoron 2 kills at 90% and does 31-****ing-damage. Not that the reflection matters if you are stuck inside Arcfire though...

(It feels so weird giving tips on the forums of your one future main how to be better against your other future main, LOL)

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Just leaving this here: Only having windboxes and turning them around might make for a nice gimping tool as it shouldn't give enemies their second jump back , it depend whether or not it ends quickly enough to get back to the stage though. It also retains the reflection part of it, so maybe a "weaker", slower shine ? X)

Nayru's Reception has hitboxes that do (minimal) knockback. It doesn't function like Mario's Cape at all.

 

[.Shìkì]

Nayru's Reception has hitboxes that do (minimal) knockback. It doesn't function like Mario's Cape at all.

Have you watched the video? The pushback is greater than Marios cape, and it turns the enemy always away from Zelda. I fail to see the problem with using it to Gimp here. If you aren't saying it gives them their jump back, that is.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Have you watched the video? The pushback is greater than Marios cape, and it turns the enemy always away from Zelda. I fail to see the problem with using it to Gimp here. If you aren't saying it gives them their jump back, that is.

How about the fact that it's not good for gimping? If you're on the stage, Dsmash is much better. If you're in the air, base Nayru's can do something similar as simply facing with your back to the stage when recovering is not an effective deterrent to actually recovering. If base Nayru's hits fully, then they'll be knocked closer to the boundaries, too. It's too much of a price to pay for a Nayru's that sucks onstage due to being punishable on hit.

And no attack that isn't a grab "gives jumps back." You're thinking of UpBs, in which case this particular attack would.

Don't insult my intelligence asking "did you watch the video" if you yourself are not in full understanding of what was displayed. It makes you look like a tool.

 

[micstar615]

What are your guys' thoughts on her sniper side B? It seems like a mix of pk fire and Samus' standard missile to me, I could see it being more useful than her regular DF just because it's faster, but I'm not sure if it'll be very good or not.

EDIT: also can we please refrain from the name calling? Let's have a good discussion without the unnecessary derailments please.

 

[.Shìkì]

How about the fact that it's not good for gimping? If you're on the stage, Dsmash is much better. If you're in the air, base Nayru's can do something similar as simply facing with your back to the stage when recovering is not an effective deterrent to actually recovering. If base Nayru's hits fully, then they'll be knocked closer to the boundaries, too. It's too much of a price to pay for a Nayru's that sucks onstage due to being punishable on hit.

And no attack that isn't a grab "gives jumps back." You're thinking of UpBs, in which case this particular attack would.

Don't insult my intelligence asking "did you watch the video" if you yourself not in full understanding of what was displayed. It makes you look like a tool.

You mistake what I'm getting at. If you hit somebody off stage (let's say, Ike or another character with strictly vertical recovery), then jump after them and hit them with Nayru 3 after they expended their second jump, the will get pushed away from the edge and turned away. The pushback is enough to make it close to impossible for said vertical recoveries to reach the edge, especially if they execute it when you turn them or when you hit them while they use them. And as it does no damage, they shouldn't get their recovery or up-b back, which would be the case for most fighters if hit by standard Nayrus. So you might be able to use it to get a kill earlier than her bair would. As i also stated, that depends on the recovery the move has though. If you cannot come back to the ledge safely yourself, it is pretty much useless.

Another scenario: somebody recovered high, if you use an aerial to hit them back over the edge they will just keep coming back due to their jump and possibly Up-B refreshing. If you hit them with Nayru 3's windbox though... they should fall to their deaths.

 

[Novice_Brave]

Right now, I see these as the "best" variant of each special (at least, for how I play)

Nayru - Default
Din's - "Delayed" Din's
Farore - Default
Phantom - No movement/shield breaker Phantom

I think that depending on how easy it is to get used to the delay and learn its timing, it could be really cool to set up some off-stage traps/control zones for characters trying to recover, or for more zoning and stage control. It still kills with the sweetspot in the ~120ish range it seems, so it could net some kills depending on how well we can where off-stage enemies will be moving - or by denying them access to a zone. The "sniper" Din's could be useful, but I'm not sure how useful it will be when most (what little there is, at least for me) Din's usage tends to be on aerial/off stage opponents for zoning or catching them.

I don't really care for either Nayru's custom - the normal one seems fine, especially in this game, since it has less end lag and multi-hit moves can connect easier. The non-damaging one just seems rather eh, and the explosion one didn't actually seem to be knocking opponents far enough to easily net kills, doesn't reflect, and might be worse for trying to follow up.

Farore's default is looking really awesome, and I don't think either custom gives it anything that compensates for what it takes away from default. No change here, no question, imo.

Phantom could be default or shield breaker, I think. The pushing Phantom doesn't look too great imo, and I think the most useful Phantoms will be used for soaking up attacks or hitting and running opponents getting close in their approach - so I feel I'll mostly be throwing out uncharged Phantom pops to keep them near me anyway - especially since it doesn't damage on the way out, meaning charged Phantoms have to be spaced exactly where the Phantom stops at. The shield breaker one allows for stronger charged Phantoms that still stay close and soak/do more damage and also hurts shields more in a game where shield breaking is looking more prevalent than ever.

Those are just my initial "on paper" thoughts though, will probably change as I experience it more for myself.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

You mistake what I'm getting at. If you hit somebody off stage (let's say, Ike or another character with strictly vertical recovery), then jump after them and hit them with Nayru 3 after they expended their second jump, the will get pushed away from the edge and turned away. The pushback is enough to make it close to impossible for said vertical recoveries to reach the edge, especially if they execute it when you turn them or when you hit them while they use them. And as it does no damage, they shouldn't get their recovery or up-b back, which would be the case for most fighters if hit by standard Nayrus.

Which part of

Nayru's Reception has hitboxes that do (minimal) knockback. It doesn't function like Mario's Cape at all.

And no attack that isn't a grab "gives jumps back." You're thinking of UpBs, in which case this particular attack would.

was unclear? Nayru's Reception deals knockback/damage and puts them in hitstun. Dealing any hitstun at all is the only criteria needed for an UpB to be refreshed.

 

[.Shìkì]

Right now, I see these as the "best" variant of each special (at least, for how I play)

Nayru - Default
Din's - "Delayed" Din's
Farore - Default
Phantom - No movement/shield breaker Phantom

I think that depending on how easy it is to get used to the delay and learn its timing, it could be really cool to set up some off-stage traps/control zones for characters trying to recover, or for more zoning and stage control. It still kills with the sweetspot in the ~120ish range it seems, so it could net some kills depending on how well we can where off-stage enemies will be moving - or by denying them access to a zone. The "sniper" Din's could be useful, but I'm not sure how useful it will be when most (what little there is, at least for me) Din's usage tends to be on aerial/off stage opponents for zoning or catching them.

I don't really care for either Nayru's custom - the normal one seems fine, especially in this game, since it has less end lag and multi-hit moves can connect easier. The non-damaging one just seems rather eh, and the explosion one didn't actually seem to be knocking opponents far enough to easily net kills, doesn't reflect, and might be worse for trying to follow up.

Farore's default is looking really awesome, and I don't think either custom gives it anything that compensates for what it takes away from default. No change here, no question, imo.

Phantom could be default or shield breaker, I think. The pushing Phantom doesn't look too great imo, and I think the most useful Phantoms will be used for soaking up attacks or hitting and running opponents getting close in their approach - so I feel I'll mostly be throwing out uncharged Phantom pops to keep them near me anyway - especially since it doesn't damage on the way out, meaning charged Phantoms have to be spaced exactly where the Phantom stops at. The shield breaker one allows for stronger charged Phantoms that still stay close and soak/do more damage and also hurts shields more in a game where shield breaking is looking more prevalent than ever.

Those are just my initial "on paper" thoughts though, will probably change as I experience it more for myself.

I'd like to mention delayed Dins has way too much recovery on stages that you'd normally play competitively like FD or Battlefield, if you use it while your opponent has any chance to reach you within 1-1.5 seconds you WILL get punished.

Which part of


was unclear? Nayru's Reception deals knockback/damage and puts them in hitstun. Dealing any hitstun at all is the only criteria needed for an UpB to be refreshed.

Than say it that way from the get go, thats why i specicifically said, and i quote,

If you aren't saying it gives them their jump back, that is.

. So, you tell me what part of THAT was unclear? Anyway, then this move is just plain useless, and the only variants that seem uusable are Nayru 2 and Phantom customs. Moving on.

 

[.Shìkì]

-cut , double post, ty lag-

 

[Katy Parry]

I like Nayru's customs and Din's.

Nayru 3 is now a kill move, and nayru 2 is a good spacing option. Zelda loves spacing. These are good.

Farore 3 is useless, Farore 2 is kinda cool. If it damages in a path I'd like that.

I like Din's 3rd use, but I wish it could be kept and detonated later. Also its super slow... I dont get that. I'm okay with the original.

Phantom 1 and 3 look good. 3 because it goes the same distance. probably the best one.

 

[Zerudahime]

standard nayru/farore, All dins are useable (playstyle permitting) I would need to really test them myself, Phantom shieldbreak looks like the go to in any case. The default is terrible.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Let me provide a flow of what transpired so that you can admit that you were wrong about something without 1. being overly defensive or 2. assume people aren't even paying attention to what's being talked about when you're not doing so yourself, which immediately makes you one of the worst kinds of forum goers.

You stated, here...

Just leaving this here: Only having windboxes and turning them around might make for a nice gimping tool as it shouldn't give enemies their second jump back , it depend whether or not it ends quickly enough to get back to the stage though. It also retains the reflection part of it, so maybe a "weaker", slower shine ? X)

that it'd be good for gimping as "it shouldn't give enemies their second jump back" when in reality, no attacks that aren't grabs refresh their second jump, which I explained. It would be foolish to make that property seem special for this move when any kind of knockback sending them closer to the blastzone would gimp better since the KB of Nayru's Reception is absolutely minimal for how close you need to be. The reason why I singled out Mario's Cape as good for gimping is because it reverses direction and momentum without refreshing even their UpB. This is not like that. I explained that. It's not even like a windbox to gimp recoveries. It is an attack like any other except with the effect of making them face the other way, which is not effective at stopping recoveries with the existence of reverse grabs, and with such minimal knockback is why I said you'd be better off with just any attack that knocks closer to the blast zones.

Then, in your defiance, you continue with

You mistake what I'm getting at. If you hit somebody off stage (let's say, Ike or another character with strictly vertical recovery), then jump after them and hit them with Nayru 3 after they expended their second jump, the will get pushed away from the edge and turned away. The pushback is enough to make it close to impossible for said vertical recoveries to reach the edge, especially if they execute it when you turn them or when you hit them while they use them. And as it does no damage, they shouldn't get their recovery or up-b back, which would be the case for most fighters if hit by standard Nayrus. So you might be able to use it to get a kill earlier than her bair would. As i also stated, that depends on the recovery the move has though. If you cannot come back to the ledge safely yourself, it is pretty much useless.

...when I already explained why that wouldn't work like that, as it does damage and knockback, and not even enough to stop recoveries from happening. I have to repeat myself when the video even shows that it would refresh UpBs by nature.

Have you watched the video?

...*slap*

IThan say it that way from the get go, thats why i specicifically said, and i quote, "If you aren't saying it gives them their jump back, that is."

When I did. Multiple times. You just refused to listen to it.

. So, you tell me what part of THAT was unclear?

The part where 15 years of Smash mechanics state that no attacks that aren't grabs give you your second jump back. This much is understood, and should not, for any reason whatsoever, be causing confusion now.

 

[Squii The Fish]

Dont mind me just backing up ryoko so no handles go flying.

 

[micstar615]

standard nayru/farore, All dins are useable (playstyle permitting) I would need to really test them myself, Phantom shieldbreak looks like the go to in any case. The default is terrible.

I agree with this. FW and NL have gotten some buffs and I'd say are overall superior than their custom counterparts. The "explosion" Naryu doesn't even K.O too well, and losing the reflect properly is terrible.

I think either of the 3 DF choices are good, we'll have to see how the meta develops to see which of the 3 is the most useful.

And yes, both the custom Phantoms seem better than the standard one imo.

 

[Foughen]

You casual players are TEW much with the arguing and name calling.

What are your guys' thoughts on her sniper side B? It seems like a mix of pk fire and Samus' standard missile to me, I could see it being more useful than her regular DF just because it's faster, but I'm not sure if it'll be very good or not.

EDIT: also can we please refrain from the name calling? Let's have a good discussion without the unnecessary derailments please.

I unfortunately think din's sniping is going to be the default, go to form of Din's to use.
In a game that's faster than brawl, the standard din's which got nerfed is just going to be too slow.
Din's sniping has excellent rangeand speed but that hitbox is so garbage....
The timed one seems a bit gimmicky, and it takes away any form of camping she had going for her.
If only we could have a din's with the speed of the sniping one, and the hitbox of the timed one.

Nayru's custom forms seem pretty stupid in my opinion, I can't see any of them other than the regular form being necessities, but I guess the explosion one can be used in match ups with no projectiles.

Farore's custom moves just look stupid.
What does the meteor one even do?
And the other basically telegraphs where you're going to teleport.
Idk I would have to test them out.

 

[Foughen]

Oh and Phantom looks pretty much terrible all around.

I wanted a version that just came out and stood there for like 10 seconds with like 30% worth of HP.
That way it could at least be used as a shield for projectiles or something.

RIP transform.

 

[micstar615]

You casual players are TEW much with the arguing and name calling.

I unfortunately think din's sniping is going to be the default, go to form of Din's to use.
In a game that's faster than brawl, the standard din's which got nerfed is just going to be too slow.
Din's sniping has excellent rangeand speed but that hitbox is so garbage....
The timed one seems a bit gimmicky, and it takes away any form of camping she had going for her.
If only we could have a din's with the speed of the sniping one, and the hitbox of the timed one.

Nayru's custom forms seem pretty stupid in my opinion, I can't see any of them other than the regular form being necessities, but I guess the explosion one can be used in match ups with no projectiles.

Farore's custom moves just look stupid.
What does the meteor one even do?
And the other basically telegraphs where you're going to teleport.
Idk I would have to test them out.

Yeah I agree with you about Din's, that sniping one is close to being really good but that hitbox is pretty meh :/ we'll have to test them out to see which one is the best.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Have you watched the video? The pushback is greater than Marios cape, and it turns the enemy always away from Zelda. I fail to see the problem with using it to Gimp here. If you aren't saying it gives them their jump back, that is.

RANDOM CASUAL PLAYER INTERRUPTION!
What exactly is gimping?
Like I have no idea.

Oh and Phantom looks pretty much terrible all around.

I wanted a version that just came out and stood there for like 10 seconds with like 30% worth of HP.
That way it could at least be used as a shield for projectiles or something.

RIP transform.

Transform was used only for Sheik. If you main only Zelda than it was just a wasted move slot and at worst it screwed you up at the worst of times. The only use is dodging some final smashes. Given that I never played as Sheik, Phantom is better than what was literally nothing.

Yeah I agree with you about Din's, that sniping one is close to being really good but that hitbox is pretty meh :/ we'll have to test them out to see which one is the best.

Was I the only one that noticed that he seemed to have trouble controlling the distance. It went really far, really fast but he couldn't get the timing right and never hit anything expect on the bigger stage.

 

[micstar615]

@ Katty Shepherd very true, perhaps his timing was just off? I think it'll need testing, I think the speed of that move could come in handy.

Also, I'm not really a massive competitive player but I believe gimping is when someone is trying to recover on stage and you disrupt it, thus "gimping their recovery."

 

[Foughen]

Zelda is not a gimping character.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

@ Katty Shepherd very true, perhaps his timing was just off? I think it'll need testing, I think the speed of that move could come in handy.

Also, I'm not really a massive competitive player but I believe gimping is when someone is trying to recover on stage and you disrupt it, thus "gimping their recovery."

Yeah, that sounds right. I guessed it was something along those lines but I wasn't sure. Thanks!
I've noticed that Din's Fire from Melee is small and fast, kind of like Din's Sniping (I'm gonna call it that from now on). So am I right to draw that parallel? I haven't melee in forever so I don't know. Anyway, if it is than we could go about thinking of it like that.

 

[Foughen]

I've noticed that Din's Fire from Melee is small and fast,

 

[micstar615]

Yeah, that sounds right. I guessed it was something along those lines but I wasn't sure. Thanks!
I've noticed that Din's Fire from Melee is small and fast, kind of like Din's Sniping (I'm gonna call it that from now on). So am I right to draw that parallel? I haven't melee in forever so I don't know. Anyway, if it is than we could go about thinking of it like that.

Dins Fire in Melee is VERY bad, i'd go as far as saying it was one of the worst moves in the game, next to sing. The explosion was small and laggy :/ the speed of it is slightly faster than Brawl's iirc but the blast is so laggy and small that it doesn't matter :/ Dins Sniper is MUCH faster than Melee Dins, in all regards, I'm not sure if the hitbox of it is good but that could be because the player who was demonstrating it was timing it wrong, it's definitely very quick though.

 

[Foughen]

According to this post you have NO vertical control control over the fast Din's fire....

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=129844715&postcount=3725

Ugh, Sakurai just couldn't male this move good. :/

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Dins Fire in Melee is VERY bad, i'd go as far as saying it was one of the worst moves in the game, next to sing. The explosion was small and laggy :/ the speed of it is slightly faster than Brawl's iirc but the blast is so laggy and small that it doesn't matter :/ Dins Sniper is MUCH faster than Melee Dins, in all regards, I'm not sure if the hitbox of it is good but that could be because the player who was demonstrating it was timing it wrong, it's definitely very quick though.

So... forget that comparison?
I imagine he would get the timing wrong because he was used to Din's Fire as is, with the slower speed. Din's Sniping goes much faster. So with practice and time we could have a fast, accurate and long ranged projectile.

 

[Chauzu]

Ok, so I was in an online tournament yesterday that was streamed so I took the chance to try out some of Zelda's custom moves for real. So we got some better footage now showing off how it could look.

First for the Din's Sniping:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofv8fvTs4V8&t=6m10s

I was kinda surprised it ko'd there. 80% from the middle-ish of the stage? Sick.

If you back to watch the whole battle (I wasn't playing well lol, was really tired) you can see how the hitboxes look for them. Thought I hit a few times when I didn't.

And for the Shield Breaking Phantom:

Managed to get a good shot of how it looks when it hits a shield! Was happy about that. Looks promising. Almost broke the shield.

 

[Chauzu]

Nayru's Reception has hitboxes that do (minimal) knockback. It doesn't function like Mario's Cape at all.

Regarding this discussion - just wanted to say that I've been testing Nayru's Reception and yeah it's impossible to gimp with it. It hits the opponent recovering and they get back their Up Special.

So yeah, this move isn't looking all that great right now.

 

[otheusrex]

Regarding this discussion - just wanted to say that I've been testing Nayru's Reception and yeah it's impossible to gimp with it. It hits the opponent recovering and they get back their Up Special.

So yeah, this move isn't looking all that great right now.

Thanks for sharing your research!!

/question thoguh: in the second match in the video you posted, I notice you downthrowing and not being able to get good followups to chase them in the air. Is there a lot of lag after the downthrow? like too much to be able to combo off of? I did notice you doing ultilt a few times immediately after downthrow, quick enough that if you jumped when you started the utilt, it looks like you'd be able to hit with some sort of aerial, but I wonder utilting was an accident from you trying to tap jump too early. I'm eager to see what zelda's potential combos are off of throws since her grabs seem quite good so far

 

[Chauzu]

Thanks for sharing your research!!

/question thoguh: in the second match in the video you posted, I notice you downthrowing and not being able to get good followups to chase them in the air. Is there a lot of lag after the downthrow? like too much to be able to combo off of? I did notice you doing ultilt a few times immediately after downthrow, quick enough that if you jumped when you started the utilt, it looks like you'd be able to hit with some sort of aerial, but I wonder utilting was an accident from you trying to tap jump too early. I'm eager to see what zelda's potential combos are off of throws since her grabs seem quite good so far

Down throw is good and you can combo into it from a lot of percentages I feel. Low % you can combo into f-tilt or such, mid-range you can get a hit with fair or nair or u-tilt, and then you can get in a hit with nair.

I just started practising seriously with Zelda yesterday so I'll report more later. Going to see if she has any set-ups for the new edgeguarding, the one where you steal the ledge the instant the opponent grabs it, jump of the ledge immediately and gimp. Would be nice if there was a setup for bair! We could dream.

One very effective edge guarding mindgame that works is to jump of the ledge just as the opponent gets up from it and nail with a bair, it's pretty consistent if the opponent does the ledge attacks / gets up normally and even if it rolls or jumps it isn't that easy to punish.

 

[NinjaLink]

I uploaded all of Zelda's Custom Moves. Hope it helps guys!

 

[Rion]

One thing I was actually wondering is if the Explosion Nayru's custom move has any sort of shield breaking properties at all. I've only ever seen it used as regular damage than on a shield. Although, we already do have Shield Breaker Phantom, so I'm doubtful, but worth an ask I suppose!

It'd at least be a decent saving grace... maybe. Possibly.

 

[NinjaLink]

One thing I was actually wondering is if the Explosion Nayru's custom move has any sort of shield breaking properties at all. I've only ever seen it used as regular damage than on a shield. Although, we already do have Shield Breaker Phantom, so I'm doubtful, but worth an ask I suppose!

It'd at least be a decent saving grace... maybe. Possibly.

It's really hard to test on shield vs cpus but i'll try to figure that out when I can.

 

[CandyCakes]

I like the slow dins fire especially for edge guarding because it would limit their recovery options and it could be safe and I like the phantom knight that goes the farthest because it could be a great camping option

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Phantom Strike is better than I thought it was after playing with it some. The KB does not really kill, but it does 29 damage if fully charged, and it charges significantly faster than the other DownBs. The launch angle of the attacks is low so it can gimp some characters. Charging up to the full two-attack portion more quickly is powerful since it's a much meatier hitbox compared to the lesser charges which also offsets the endlag of the move. The Phantom not moving forward isn't much of a drawback with that in mind, and in addition you don't have to worry much about the deadzone with people standing next to you on a charged Phantom.

Now if only it weren't reflectable...

 

[BJN39]

Well, I'm not as much if a fan of that phantom myself, but you definitely brought up some thought I hadn't really given to the move that makes it seem a little better than I thought.

Fun fact: the move has truly set KB. Went and tested it. Set KB on all swings EXCEPT the first hit on the full charge version. It can KO Mario at 955%...LOL

 

[Phenomiracle]

Ok, so I was in an online tournament yesterday that was streamed so I took the chance to try out some of Zelda's custom moves for real. So we got some better footage now showing off how it could look.

First for the Din's Sniping:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofv8fvTs4V8&t=6m10s

I was kinda surprised it ko'd there. 80% from the middle-ish of the stage? Sick..

Was probably due to a customized buff to Zelda's attack stat.

 

[ZombieBran]

Or equipment that lowered Sheik's "Defense".
Equips have no place outside of Smash Run, imo.

I really prefer Din's Snipe. It can kinda force approaches against quite a surprising amount of the cast. It does has very tiny vertical control which just tells me that someone doesn't want Zelda to have even good customs.
Phantom's Strike is by far my favorite of the Phantoms.
Default FW and NL of course. The customs are gimmicky at best.

 

[Thinkaman]

So I've been really enjoying Nayru's Passion (explosion) as potent aerial mixup. It easily punishes air-dodges, which was often a problem for Zelda's rigid aerial moveset.

Also, Phantom has been proving useful at stuffing a lot of attacks. Phantom Breaker is my preferred, since it's safer harassment in more situations.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

So I've been really enjoying Nayru's Passion (explosion) as potent aerial mixup. It easily punishes air-dodges, which was often a problem for Zelda's rigid aerial moveset.

Also, Phantom has been proving useful at stuffing a lot of attacks. Phantom Breaker is my preferred, since it's safer harassment in more situations.

Nayru's Love has a lot going for it this game that sets the bar high for any potential alternates. Invulnerability frames for legit counterattacks, reliable multihitting, reflection, and a large hit window to help counter rolls and dodges. Nayru's Passion lacks all of those things. I really wish I could say the Nayru's alts were decent for competition... but they're not.

At least the Phantom variations seem to have their fans. Phantom Strike has grown on me enough to actually run it most of the time.