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Youtube Commenters and the Legitimacy of Wave-Dashing
- Thread starter Grim Tuesday
- Start date
Kanelol
Smash Lord
ahahaahahahahahahahahaha
i love this thread
in unrelated news, anyone who comments more than once on a youtube video is ****ing ********
but still, lol
i love this thread
in unrelated news, anyone who comments more than once on a youtube video is ****ing ********
but still, lol
Metal Reeper
Smash Champion
Agree. Wow youtube comments lol.
But yeah, I do hate when people say that WDing etc is cheating.....people who don't understand act like its impossible lol.
King Funk
Int. Croc. Alligator
I ****ing hate the YouTube "imanoobbuttrolleveryoneonsmashvideos" community. All the Brawl haters, all the idiots, all the fanboys, all the stupidity in the world can be found there. It's so refreshing when you go to a tournament and you realize people aren't like what they are on YouTube.
Fletch
Smash Master
The last line was too good, want to see how he responds to that.
Get your wave-cheating out of my smash bros!
Get your wave-cheating out of my smash bros!
Shadic
Alakadoof?
It's unfortunate that Brawl added Mewtwo-Canceling. 
JPOBS
Smash Hero
man, "LordSunday" owned him something fierce with the mewtwo comment lol
MooseEatsBear
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2009
- Messages
- 270
Best post on Smashboards ever.It's unfortunate that Brawl added Mewtwo-Canceling.
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
Oh my god yes, I love convos like that on youtube.
*goes to look up tourney*** vids while at work*
*goes to look up tourney*** vids while at work*
Jonas
Smash Champion
XLordSundayX USED LOGIC
It doesn't affect Kaihedgie
It doesn't affect Kaihedgie
King Funk
Int. Croc. Alligator
FireBall Stars
Smash Ace
Thanks, this made my day better.
Youtube commentots are mostly trolls, so no surprise, really.
What poeple don't seem to get is that wavedashing isn't really that powerful. It is useful for some characters, like Fox for instances, but it's entierly possible to win a match without wavedashing even once. A Falco player for instances, can get away with not doing it a whole lot. Besides, isn't the point of a game to exploit its mechanics? To understand how the game functions?
It's a glitch, sure, but at the same time, every games played at tournament levels have their glitches exploited. Some shooters have quick-scoping that isn't intended to be used. F-Zero GX has snaking, the later which I don't like doing, but that is my choice, and I will not condemn someone for using it. In this case, I'm just too lazy to learn the skill and have no right to tell poeple they are cheaters for doing something I could learn just as well if I put my mind to it. Acquiring a skill requires work. Thus a skill should be a respected effort.
What poeple don't seem to get is that wavedashing isn't really that powerful. It is useful for some characters, like Fox for instances, but it's entierly possible to win a match without wavedashing even once. A Falco player for instances, can get away with not doing it a whole lot. Besides, isn't the point of a game to exploit its mechanics? To understand how the game functions?
It's a glitch, sure, but at the same time, every games played at tournament levels have their glitches exploited. Some shooters have quick-scoping that isn't intended to be used. F-Zero GX has snaking, the later which I don't like doing, but that is my choice, and I will not condemn someone for using it. In this case, I'm just too lazy to learn the skill and have no right to tell poeple they are cheaters for doing something I could learn just as well if I put my mind to it. Acquiring a skill requires work. Thus a skill should be a respected effort.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
I just checked the video again, there have been no more responses yet 
Jonas
Smash Champion
Well maybe logic was super effective after all. Maybe he's busy coming up with a reply to your Mewtwo argument.
Sim
Smash Apprentice
God, that last reply by XLordSundayX just killed me.
Signia
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 1,157
uhh, feel free to copy-paste this somewhere where people are actually arguing about this
Cheating is actually impossible in a videogame, as it is a just a bunch of lines of code. You can't disobey any of the rules any more than you can disobey the laws of physics. Anything perceived as breaking the rules is misperception.
The videogame is what it is, but players generally want to play the game that they think the developers intended to make, as a game with a design, an elegant system, is better than a cluster**** of code. Any unexpected mechanics or seemingly irrational design for what the perceived intentions are are labeled "glitches." For those of you who don't know, when one runs a program, the program does what the code says. Whatever the result of the program's execution, there is no right or wrong. The only error after the program has successfully compiled is a "runtime error," which is an error on the programmer's part to get the compiler to do what he/she wanted to do. These are glitches, and they can only be defined by the programmer and his/her intent.
Since we are not the ones who programed the game, we really can't know what their intentions were, and can only speculate. Allow me to demonstrate that since we can't know for sure, we shouldn't really care what their intentions were: In the case of Melee, did they not intend to use the physics engine that they did? Was it not intended for a directional air-dodge to give you "momentum" in a direction? Was the floor "friction" not intended to gradually decrease "momentum" until none is left? Or was that all an accident? It seems like that all these things were intended. But if the effect of each part of a system is intended, is the effect of the system intended? If the causes were intentionally orchestrated to cause effects, and those effects cause other effects, are those effects intended? The confusion arises because we can't know for sure what the developers intended to do. All we can know is that this is what they did, and we shouldn't act on perception of intent, let alone impose our perceptions of it on others, as there is nothing supporting them.
Cheating is actually impossible in a videogame, as it is a just a bunch of lines of code. You can't disobey any of the rules any more than you can disobey the laws of physics. Anything perceived as breaking the rules is misperception.
The videogame is what it is, but players generally want to play the game that they think the developers intended to make, as a game with a design, an elegant system, is better than a cluster**** of code. Any unexpected mechanics or seemingly irrational design for what the perceived intentions are are labeled "glitches." For those of you who don't know, when one runs a program, the program does what the code says. Whatever the result of the program's execution, there is no right or wrong. The only error after the program has successfully compiled is a "runtime error," which is an error on the programmer's part to get the compiler to do what he/she wanted to do. These are glitches, and they can only be defined by the programmer and his/her intent.
Since we are not the ones who programed the game, we really can't know what their intentions were, and can only speculate. Allow me to demonstrate that since we can't know for sure, we shouldn't really care what their intentions were: In the case of Melee, did they not intend to use the physics engine that they did? Was it not intended for a directional air-dodge to give you "momentum" in a direction? Was the floor "friction" not intended to gradually decrease "momentum" until none is left? Or was that all an accident? It seems like that all these things were intended. But if the effect of each part of a system is intended, is the effect of the system intended? If the causes were intentionally orchestrated to cause effects, and those effects cause other effects, are those effects intended? The confusion arises because we can't know for sure what the developers intended to do. All we can know is that this is what they did, and we shouldn't act on perception of intent, let alone impose our perceptions of it on others, as there is nothing supporting them.
TheDekuNut
Smash Journeyman
i lol-ed. i want to know which video is was but i know that could only lead to more trolling. brawl also took out hitstun and l-canceling that must have also been a glitch right?
Geist
Smash Master
lol youtube comments
I haven't read one of those in a while
I haven't read one of those in a while
Shadic
Alakadoof?
The hitstun constant is actually the same, it's the lower gravity, movement speed, and the ability to airdodge out of tumble that ruins it.
Veetaak
Smash Lord
I would quit smash without wavedashing lol
TheDekuNut
Smash Journeyman
oh cool i never thought of it that way. do you think they intended for air dodging to slow momentum and cancel hitstun? or would this kid call that a cheating exploit?
wait a tick "lordsunday" "Grimtuesday" hmm
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Yeah, it's me. I wasn't trying to hide that or anything
Oh, and the video is Tourney Tard Golf.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Being ignorant doesn't make you a troll.
And using logic against them is hilarious.
And using logic against them is hilarious.
Zodiac
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2005
- Messages
- 3,557
Tichinde925
Smash Legend
In other news:
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
What makes that disappointing is that it has 17 thumbs up.
Jonas
Smash Champion
Well since most YT commenters are stupid, it's not a stretch to assume that lurkers who thumbs up other comments are also stupid.
I love that video lol
King Funk
Int. Croc. Alligator
On YouTube there's been a history when it comes to thumbs up:
- at first it was supposed to mean "good comment".
- then it meant "? number of people agree with that comment."
- now it means "how many people lol'd because of the comment."
In this case, it seems to be what I like to call "sarcastic" or "mocking" thumbs up, for comments that attain such a degree of stupidity that it transcends all definition of time and space and becomes actually hilarious (just like B-movies or bad music).
Cheating, to me, means tampering with the code or doing something outside of the game world to hinder the opponent, such as unplugging the controller. Certainly, we come up with arguments as to whether we should ban truly broken things, like Oddjob from Goldeneye. But in the case of Wavedashing, there is no argument possible against it. Every character can wavedash, and while it benefits characters differently, it doesn't make a character anywhere near invincible.
So it is neither a game breaker, nor is is a code alteration. We are playing within the boundaries allowed by the game. Kirk would agree with this method.
So it is neither a game breaker, nor is is a code alteration. We are playing within the boundaries allowed by the game. Kirk would agree with this method.
Anth0ny
Smash Master
My favourite is when the casuals tell the competitive players to "Stop telling us we're doing it wrong" when it's the COMPLETE opposite... "bawwww stop wavedashing and turning items off and not playing for FUN you're doing it wrong!!1!!!"
-_-
-_-
Simple. They take their definition of "fun" and try to force it on others.
They play for "mindless fun" as in, they play the ame superficially.
We play it with more depth, and our fun comes with the challenge, the fast-paced gameplay, and the rivalities. It's an intrinsic motivation to improve that energizes us.
Poeple, when in the majority pride themselves with the erroneous beleif that if more poeple agree about something, they are right. Yet a majority can make dumb decisions... see current Canadian politics. Jokes aside, most poeple are casual gamers, and they have a sense of self-entitlement because most agree with them. They are unable to shift perspectives and understand that some individuals simply enjoys mastering a game for its own sake.
The mere process of performing can be fun in and of itself.
They play for "mindless fun" as in, they play the ame superficially.
We play it with more depth, and our fun comes with the challenge, the fast-paced gameplay, and the rivalities. It's an intrinsic motivation to improve that energizes us.
Poeple, when in the majority pride themselves with the erroneous beleif that if more poeple agree about something, they are right. Yet a majority can make dumb decisions... see current Canadian politics. Jokes aside, most poeple are casual gamers, and they have a sense of self-entitlement because most agree with them. They are unable to shift perspectives and understand that some individuals simply enjoys mastering a game for its own sake.
The mere process of performing can be fun in and of itself.
CloneHat
Smash Champion
What the hell was wrong with that long-form census anyway? Could they have done anything more pointless?
Anyways, it's nice to see a thread going against these comments. When I got on Youtube, I feel like one Smasher in a sea of single-button-mode, obstinate people.
Anyways, it's nice to see a thread going against these comments. When I got on Youtube, I feel like one Smasher in a sea of single-button-mode, obstinate people.