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I tried WHZ out, and quickly came to the conclusion that it has overpowered random hazards. Specifically, the spring can show up randomly from the right and gimp people in their recoveries with virtually no warning. I can't vouch for it any more than I could vouch for Pictochat in Brawl, for exactly the same reasons. And also, have fun catching a Pikachu or Sonic on that stage. Also, no Halberd?
As far as criteria for its viability, it's pretty commonly used stage locally. Which says something given how many strikes and bans we use. We have a sonic player that selects that stage often, which is fine because there are more broken character on that stage than those two characters. Albeit, I'm not overly convinced at the viability of circle camping as a strategy dominant enough to override the rest of the depth of the game since I've only played people that want to camp me to death for over 4 years and that sort of just comes with the territory. If you intend to pick a slow character that might loses the speed game, probably should strike this stage and/or reconsider using that character in the counterpicking phase. It's hard to really justify being counterpicked to a stage you can't compete on in the context of having more stages banned than left legal by competitive banning processes, especially given the competitive norm of only two bans in other places.
Wanna know what stagnates the metagame more than a lack of stage variety (it doesn't btw. Do some more research brah. Tell me how stagnate Melee is with it's grand total of 6 stages for a decade)? Having a character have to ban a single stage every. Single. Game. Over and over. Cause, if they don't, the matchup table for them shifts entirely into negatives! So, either get taken to an impossible-to-win-on stage, or... One of a few other stages where you're also ****ty!
Are they non-random? Because what happened to convince me that the stage is unviable is that I was fighting a marth main there, threw him offstage, he tried to recover, and the spring that was not there before came rushing in from the right and spiked him. Is that a non-random occurrence? Can it be reasonably tracked? Because the list of characters recovering from that are like... Villager and Metaknight.
no it's not what the **** are you talking about
Actually there is a second insta death glitch shown on the stage research thread where the moving platform overlaps with one of the platform at a stop warping Little Mac to the blast zone. http://youtu.be/S1uiTvankNo?t=41s
I'm more advocating the null hypothesis moreso than any sort of directional one.
Is your only reason that Halberd is allegedly worse than Windy Hill Zone that it's small and has quick games? I think Halberd's small nature is a useful balancing factor in a stage list actually; DK64 has the huge blastzones so Halberd's small ones are nice to include as well. I don't really think bigger or smaller is intrinsically good or bad.
The springs are really random but they also always move at the same speed and always appear in the same two possible locations. You just have to always remember when moving through those two zones what is possible to occur and account for it, and it's not really too hard to deal with in practice. It is definitely obnoxious since making a poor judgment or taking a gamble that doesn't pay off has a full stock consequence, but I don't think it's really enough to warrant a ban on that basis especially since in practice it doesn't come up much at all.
Best of 1 baseball series have been some of THE most exciting affairs in history.
Amazing Ampharos
objectively Halberd is a monstrosity though
I'm going to side with Ampharos on this and say that I'm not seeing it. The Combo Cannon takes ages to hit anyone once it starts up and the worst thing you can say about it is that it's hard to tell who the claw is aiming at. Even then, the claw kills the latest by far out of the three weapons, Mario survives it up to 135%. The bomb does't even aim at anyone in particular, it just fires at a random point over the stage and also takes forever and a day to actually explode. On top of that, if the laser is aiming at you, you can turn around and exploit it by making it fire at a specific location and then capitalize.@
I would assume ness would be broken on walk offs.
To be fair, there are no sides persay. Just all things that are good and people that run Halberd
I read this as "stand by the edge and grab for fish the whole time."
Walkoffs in general are a very volatile stage feature since both players can get ridiculously early kills. The winner can try to extend their lead while the loser can try to make a quick comeback. If it's a transforming stage then it's a nonissue since you always have the option to literally wait it out, but if it's permanent like on Coliseum then it's something you have to deal with when it happens.
Hmm, I suppose if they were fishing for grabs successfully, they could continuously kill at low percents. But that's more dependent upon how easy that is. I'd like to see strong players on WFS, but I doubt I ever will.
If it were just this, wouldn't that be even? Quick comebacks/lead extensions aren't frowned upon in fighting games. But I suppose it might be bad in a two-stock meta.
It seems to be mostly preference, you're right. I'm fine with it in theory until such time as there's a clear trend of bad players beating good ones by simply abusing walkoffs, but I know not everyone thinks that way.
Because Trip/Quad tournaments are unexplored by the community and items will always, and forever be, a huge no in competitive play. What's ridiculous is you thinking a major tournament should use items in a main event.
It totally is, now where the hell is my Pikachu ban?
How is it wasting a strike? I would strike Halberd against Diddy regardless of if I am the best player in the world or the worst one (probably the latter). How is using a strike on a stage my opponent's character is better on wasting it?
Piford
So your saying in a match were Halberd would be an otherwise neutral stage, the claw makes it so one player has a slight advantage. I'd have to agree, but generally the better player would be better at dodging and positioning themselves. The claw has a large amount of startup signaling when it will strike, but very little start-up when signaling who it will strike. You have to incorporate the claw hitting either player into your strategy well before it signals who it's hitting. You want to simultaneously get your opponent into a position where it sucks if he gets hit, and a position where you will be fine if it targets you. Even if you can't successfully get your opponent into a position where it hits him (into hitstun or lag), you should always be able to avoid it unless your opponent outplays you and forces you to get hit by it. You have so many avenues in avoiding it (air dodge, spot dodge, shield, roll, move quickly, move out of range) that you really should never get hit by it unless your opponent forces you to. And you shouldn't be in a position to be punished when if it targets you.The claw indicated its selection in Brawl. I assumed that was unchanged. If it doesn't, then yeah that's a lot better.
@
For the purpose of the example both Pikachu and Diddy killed off the top to the same extent, or Pikachu killed off the top slightly more so; it's difficult to get a perfect example with a variety of horizontal vs. vertical kill potential differentials. It also depends on playstyles too, an upsmash happy Pikachu can quite plausibly get more benefit out of low ceiling than one skilled at gimping.
You can substitute whatever matchup you want that makes you happy. The point is there exists some matchups where Halberd provides a slight character benefit to one player, but provides a large underdog benefit to the lesser player, and subverts the stage CP system, because it's much shorter.
But everyone hated that, no? In addition, items add more randomness to the game. It's not tested in Smash 4, sure. But it is immediately intuitive as to why it's not allowed. Moves that rely on RNG tend to at least be tied to a particular character, so you know that there is a possibility of say, a 9, or a misfire, or a Bob-Omb. Item spawns are truly random.
