You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[Jedisupersonic]

I've actually heard a lot of people say they disliked Ike. Many said he was boring and even more I see people call him a gary-stu. And this is the only forum where I've seen people act negative about the idea of Chrom being in Smash. Most other places seem perfectly fine with the idea. You say he's disliked but he was voted the most popular male character in the game by Japanese fans and I believe the second most popular character overall after Lucina if I'm not mistaken. So clearly he is well liked enough that he still outshines most of the case from his own game. And I agree that Ike made a great contrast to Marth, much more so than Chrom, but I don't see that as the deciding factor of getting on the roster. Personally I'd like to see all three though, I'll be very sad if we only get two FE reps and Chrom just has Ike's moveset pasted on him.

I personally found Ike to be the most well written lord [and he isn't even noble go figure]. FE9 overall in my opinion is also the best written story in the series and Ike developed a good bit in it. The Gary Stu comments come from FE10 where he is already established as being amazing in his universe due to his struggles in FE9.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Or if he's given a new style made for Smash like what Sakurai essentially did for the other 3 FE characters.

More like 2.5, considering Roy was essentially a clone of Marth in Melee. There are difference with their properties, but the point still stands.

Also, anyone being competent with Chrom having a fresh playstyle is full of garbage.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

More like 2.5, considering Roy was essentially a clone of Marth in Melee. There are difference with their properties, but the point still stands.

Also, anyone being competent with Chrom having a fresh playstyle is full of garbage.

You know the only way I could see them making Chrom a completely new style is if they had him use all his reclass options somehow in his moveset, even then he'd have a bow like Link among his moves then. I just see no potential unless they went all out lance. But in that case why not just use Ephraim? Lol

 

[Deleted member]

Opinions, brah.

Marth had nothing and was given a fresh playstyle that couldn't be compared to Link (who at the time, was the only swordsman).
Ike was given a fresh playstyle playing around being slow and bulky; a style irrelevant to his appearances in the Fire Emblem series.
Roy, while borrowing base style from Marth, was given his own style that honestly can't be compared to his style in his home game.

So really, nothing is stopping the same from happening to Chrom, and no amount of sour pessimism and arrogant hatred is going to change that.

And this is coming from someone who doesn't really care for Chrom.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Opinions, brah.

Marth had nothing and was given a fresh playstyle that couldn't be compared to Link (who at the time, was the only swordsman).
Ike was given a fresh playstyle playing around being slow and bulky; a style irrelevant to his appearances in the Fire Emblem series.
Roy, while borrowing base style from Marth, was given his own style that honestly can't be compared to his style in his home game.

.

Marth and Ike still borrowed moves from their games. A good amount of Ike's moveset comes from his actual style like his forward B being his critical from FE9. His rougher sword style being from his father. I could argue they based Ike on FE10 Ike considering he is slow in comparison to quite a number of people. Still fast but not the fastest. Slower in brawl as to make him even more different then Marth obviously but still. Ike's moveset takes ALOT from Path of Radiance and Radiant dawn.

Marth was made not only from his various stabs and swings from his own games, but Jugdral Swordmasters and their various moves [FE4/5 Sword master critical is totally where he got the Dolphin Slash from among other things]

Roy's style has no roots from his home game? The Sword of Seals Totally didn't use fire in FE6

they didn't max out the differences they could have between Marth and Roy but saying Roy had nothing from his own game is laughable.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The only thing I've seen with Chrom is people trying to borrow a lot of assets from Marth and Ike for his moveset and going with the middle road route between those characters.

****ING. BORING.

If that's the best people can really come up with, that's really depressing. It's not exactly something to be excited about, because it only shows laziness.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The only thing I've seen with Chrom is people trying to borrow a lot of assets from Marth and Ike for his moveset and going with the middle road route between those characters.

****ING. BORING.

If that's the best people can really come up with, that's really depressing. It's not exactly something to be excited about, because it only shows laziness.

To be fair, your opinion that a "middle of the road" character is boring, is simply your opinion. It isn't fact. I wouldn't mind something like that, as i'm sure a lot of other people wouldn't mind either.

As Golden said, "Opinions, brah"

 

[Deleted member]

Marth and Ike still borrowed moves from their games. A good amount of Ike's moveset comes from his actual style like his forward B being his critical from FE9. His rougher sword style being from his father. I could argue they based Ike on FE10 Ike considering he is slow in comparison to quite a number of people. Still fast but not the fastest. Slower in brawl as to make him even more different then Marth obviously but still. Ike's moveset takes ALOT from Path of Radiance and Radiant dawn.

People keep saying this, yet no one has yet to legitimately prove it.
Other than a few animation quirks and Ike's Aether skill, there's really not that much they take from their home series (at which there is very little to take anyway).
It's also unlikely to believe that Ike is "based off FE10" in Brawl when he was designed much before the release of that game as obvious as his appearance and his lack of axe usage.

Marth was made not only from his various stabs and swings but Jugdral Swordmasters and their various moves [FE4/5 Sword master critical is totally where he got the Dolphin Slash from among other things]

And how are "Jugdral Swordmasters' various moves" his skill to take from the series?
Literally, all Sakurai had to work with for Marth was a limited number of animations. That didn't stop Marth from having a fresh style laid out for him.

And really, if borrowing from other characters outside his games counts, then couldn't Chrom literally do the same and no one can say jack about it?

Roy's style has no roots from his home game? The Sword of Seals Totally didn't use fire in FE6

Way to read. I said the style can't be compared.
And no, "fire sword" doesn't count for playstyle. That's an attribute. I didn't mention anything about that.
Roy's style within the game is not emphasized whatsoever in Melee. His fighting style emphasizes on stabs and thrusts, at which only two attacks in the entire moveset in Melee have them; the "down command" on the last hit of Double-Edge Dance, and his Up Smash.

they didn't max out the differences they could have between Marth and Roy but saying Roy had nothing from his own game is laughable.

Other than the sword having a fire attribute, Roy really DID have nothing from his home game.
Does he use that epic ranged fire wave attack from his critical? No. Instead, his sword just has fire damage for his Marth-copied Specials and Up Smash.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Middle road doesn't even suggest anything in particular. Are we talking an more offensive balanced like Mario? Are we talking more like a defensive balanced like Pit? How will his attacks contribute to a middle ground playstyle? What about specifics like falling speed, walking/dashing speed, air speed, weight, range, attack speed, power, and whatever details needs to be explained?

 

[Jedisupersonic]

To be fair, your opinion that a "middle of the road" character is boring, is simply your opinion. It isn't fact. I wouldn't mind something like that, as i'm sure a lot of other people wouldn't mind either.

As Golden said, "Opinions, brah"

We may as well have the retooled Roy then in the case you guys want someone inbetween. Eh? More possibilities then just stealing moves from Ike and Marth ^^

Like his reverse edge grips of his sword, flame capabilities including a projectile and the fact his sword can heal him [could be like Ivysaur in Project M], sweeps [from his wide Sword of Seals slash]

 

[Deleted member]

The only thing I've seen with Chrom is people trying to borrow a lot of assets from Marth and Ike for his moveset and going with the middle road route between those characters.

****ING. BORING.

If that's the best people can really come up with, that's really depressing. It's not exactly something to be excited about, because it only shows laziness.

Then you literally have not seen some of the more recent movesets posted on Chrom's thread and/or brushed them away because "you didn't like them".


EDIT: I find it heavily hypocritical that the character made into a Marth clone in Melee magically has more potential than Chrom because biased people choose to see potential in one and not the other.
I mean, if the choice were up to me on whether Roy came back or Chrom was added, I'd pick Roy, but not because he has "more potential".
Because the truth is, he doesn't have anymore potential than Chrom does; they both can easily be different with their own styles.
Though some people are willingly blinding themselves to this.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Middle road doesn't even suggest anything in particular. Are we talking an more offensive balanced like Mario? Are we talking more like a defensive balanced like Pit? How will his attacks contribute to a middle ground playstyle? What about specifics like falling speed, walking/dashing speed, air speed, weight, range, attack speed, power, and whatever details needs to be explained?

Right in between Marth and Ike's stats. Not to fast, not too slow. Not too weak, not too strong. The best of both, but balanced.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Right in between Marth and Ike's stats. Not to fast, not too slow. Not too weak, not too strong. The best of both, but balanced.

...

Middle road doesn't even suggest anything in particular. Are we talking an more offensive balanced like Mario? Are we talking more like a defensive balanced like Pit? How will his attacks contribute to a middle ground playstyle? What about specifics like falling speed, walking/dashing speed, air speed, weight, range, attack speed, power, and whatever details needs to be explained?

 

[Jedisupersonic]

People keep saying this, yet no one has yet to legitimately prove it.
Other than a few animation quirks and Ike's Aether skill, there's really not that much they take from their home series (at which there is very little to take anyway).
It's also unlikely to believe that Ike is "based off FE10" in Brawl when he was designed much before the release of that game as obvious as his appearance and his lack of axe usage.

Ike's tilt is from his normal swings, his jump attack from mid-air is from the opening of path of radiance and his non-killing critical, his 3rd a move in his combo is based of his downward swing in radiant dawn, his taunts are from Radiant Dawn. His jumps are from the same crit I mentioned earlier. His heavier swings are from the Black Knight. His B move while semi borrowed from Roy could be a reference to the spell Bolganone. Or is a reference to his final strike against the final boss in Radiant Dawn. Need I go on?

 

[Igneous42]

If I go buy a lottery ticket, and win $100, then buy another and win $100 again, would it be logical to assume that every future lottery ticket I buy would net me $100 bucks?

You haven't given me any reason to believe that your little pattern means anything either. Again, YOU'RE making the claim. The burden of proof is on you to provide evidence.

The difference here is that there is data available to prove why what happened to me isn't a reliable circumstance to base my beliefs on. If I were lucky enough for that to happen I could still look at the known statistics for lottery and see that I can't make the assumption that I would win again. In this case there is clear, concise evidence as to why I probably won't win again. Our situation is different. You have no data to suggest that Sakurai and the Smash Bros team won't once again pick the most recent main character.

And I have provided evidence that Sakurai does not stick to patterns. Mother, Metroid, and Donkey Kong did not gain any new representatives in Melee, so for two games their rosters remained unchanged. By your logic that should have remained true.

This ignores the fact that Smash has so far had an ever growing roster thus every entry give more characters a shot. Sakurai has stuck to patterns in other areas as well, for example the original 12 have always returned, even though Ness was supposedly supposed to be cut in Melee for Lucas when given the chance to cut Ness for Lucas a second time he instead chose to keep all the original 12 in. There has also always been a current gen Pokemon rep. So while some patterns "have been broken"others have so far seemingly remained the same. In this case it's a pattern that has a logical reasoning behind it. There is no reason to only keep one rep for those series. There are plenty of reasons to choose to use current and relevant characters from certain series.

What? When have I suggested anyone getting replaced by a much less important or popular character?

I'll give you that one, that was a poor point.

Except neither Roy or Ike were picked because of recentness, they were picked because Sakurai thought they were the best choices at the time for a variety of reasons.

Those being what?

Sales don't mean jack. Again, if they did, Path of Radiance would not have gotten as much content as it did in Brawl.

Yet the most popular, best selling series get the most reps? There is no single factor that is the end all be all but a lot of things determine which characters get picked. Sales reflects the popularity of a game to an extent as well, a game that sells well obviously will have a pretty big fan base.

Fair enough. Still, calling 1500 votes a tiny sample size is funny coming from the guy who thinks two games is good enough to indicate a pattern.

My argument doesn't only hinge on the whole pattern thing though. You've countered my points with weak logic and your only argument for why it should be anybody but Chrom is opinionated.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

...

My post basically covered at least his movement and weight. His moveset could be a mix of defensive strategies that if used correctly can set up a punishing blow, which itself is unlike the other two unless there I've been playing those two incorrectly in Brawl.

 

[MexM]

I have no idea what designs they're going to use in SMTxFE.

Judging from the trailer, the're going to use their original designs. But it could have changed since the reveal trailer.

Anyways, Roy's look in FE13 is pretty awesome. Not really sure about Ike.

Support Henry for Smash!

 

[Deleted member]

Ike's tilt is from his normal swings, his jump attack from mid-air is from the opening of path of radiance and his non-killing critical, his 3rd a move in his combo is based of his downward swing in radiant dawn, his taunts are from Radiant Dawn. His jumps are from the same crit I mentioned earlier.

Read the part again where I said "animation quirks".
If using "he swings his sword in this way" is your best argument, you might want to quit.

His heavier swings are from the Black Knight. His B move while semi borrowed from Roy could be a reference to the spell Bolganone. Or is a reference to his final strike against the final boss in Radiant Dawn. Need I go on?

Borrowing skills from others =/= taking their own style into account. Why do you not get that? If it's ok for Ike to borrow skills from others to fill out his moves, why is it suddenly not ok for Chrom to do the same? It's not like his only options are Marth and Ike, that's ********.

Aside from that, speculation is worth absolutely nothing in an argument here.
Is there any legit confirmation Eruption is based off of Bolganone? No.
How about that it's a reference to his final strike in RD? No. (And it's not even remotely close)
How about that Black Knight inspired his heavier swings? No confirmation there either.
So using those as points are idiotic.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Read the part again where I said "animation quirks".
If using "he swings his sword in this way" is your best argument, you might want to quit.


Borrowing skills from others =/= taking their own style into account. Why do you not get that? If it's ok for Ike to borrow skills from others to fill out his moves, why is it suddenly not ok for Chrom to do the same? It's not like his only options are Marth and Ike, that's ********.

Aside from that, speculation is worth absolutely nothing in an argument here.
Is there any legit confirmation Eruption is based off of Bolganone? No.
How about that it's a reference to his final strike in RD? No. (And it's not even remotely close)
How about that Black Knight inspired his heavier swings? No confirmation there either.
So using those as points are idiotic.

You do realize the Black Knight was trained by the same guy that trained Ike right?

 

[Deleted member]

You do realize the Black Knight was trained by the same guy that trained Ike right?

You do realize, that doesn't mean jack ****, right?

 

[Jedisupersonic]

You do realize, that doesn't mean jack ****, right?

If all you are going to do is throw insults like a child I suggest you leave. I was giving you where I figured the moves came from, and all you give me is whining and complaining about how its impossible

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

* once again awaiting FalKoopa with "Dis Gon B Gud" gif.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

For goodness sakes..... people. Why do so many people think Chrom is unlikely? And in the end, for Awakening, sales did matter, as it literally saved the Fire Emblem Franchise from extinction. So to put it another way, Chrom's game saved Fire Emblem. Intelligent Systems must be proud of what Awakening has accomplished... and if they are to recommend a character like they did Ike for Brawl... then there is no doubt in my mind that they would recommend Chrom. Intelligent Systems poured all their efforts into Awakening to ensure that Fire Emblem lived on, and having Chrom rep the game which SAVED the series doesn't seem too far-fetched of an idea. And for those who think Chrom is too bland of a character, do you honestly think Marth had a better one in Shadow Dragon? I thought that Chrom had as good a character as Ike anyways. Now... don't get me wrong, I do believe that Marth and Ike should get in before Chrom, but I see no reason why FE won't get three reps, and I see no reason to put Lucina, Lyn, Hector, etc. in that spot. Roy possibly, but in my opinion, for all Awakening has accomplished, Chrom deserves it more. The inclusion of Arena Ferox is just the beginning..... To conclude, MarthxIkexChrom trio is a very likely scenario, and for it to be any other way doesn't make sense.

 

[Z1GMA]

I want the Black Knight/Zelgius.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

The funny thing is I never even had a comment against Chrom [Heck I even named a possibility of a moveset]. I was just explaining where Ike may have got his moveset from and I get called an idiot over it, not cool.

 

[Starbound]

You do realize the Black Knight was trained by the same guy that trained Ike right?

Yeah, but it's not like that matters in Smash Bros, where we shoot your canon out of a cannon!

I'm actually really amazed at what Sakurai can do for these characters. Most only have around six animations to use, yet he's able to make the character really stand out. Sure, Ike is nothing like how he is in his games (he had a higher speed cap than strength cap in FE9, and they were the same in FE10), but he was able to establish Ike as a unique fighter in Smash Bros., which I think matters more than accurately representing your canon, within reason of course (Chrom using tomes would be really stupid, imo).

Fire Emblem discussion is fun guys!

 

[FlareHabanero]

Fire Emblem discussion is fun guys!

 

[Deleted member]

If all you are going to do is throw insults like a child I suggest you leave. I was giving you where I figured the moves came from, and all you give me is whining and complaining about how its impossible

a. Point out to where I am throwing insults.
If you seriously think saying that an irrelevant point means "jack ****" (as in, it holds no meaning) is throwing an insult, then you are being overly sensitive.
Now, if I said something on the order of "everything you say is worth jack ****", then it would be throwing an insult.

b. Pointing out that speculation does not work out in an argument of facts is not "whining and complaining about how its impossible" (which makes no logical sense whatsoever, by the way).
Speculation is speculation; it cannot be used to prove a point that is supposed to be backed by facts.

c. This last post of yours is more "throwing insults like a child" and "whining and complaining" than any of my posts in this discussion, in an ironic twist. But instead of telling you to just leave, I'm going to suggest you knock it off if you want me to take you seriously.

The funny thing is I never even had a comment against Chrom [Heck I even named a possibility of a moveset]. I was just explaining where Ike may have got his moveset from and I get called an idiot over it, not cool.

Point to where I called you an idiot. Saying using speculation as fact is idiotic =/= calling you an idiot.
And no, you didn't claim where he "may" he got his moveset from, you were claiming where he did get his moveset from in an effort to prove my statement about how Ike doesn't have all that much from within his game.

I'm going to suggest to stop lying. People can see the posts and see how you were never directly insulted and how you were using speculation as fact to prove my argument wrong.

 

[Igneous42]

Yeah, but it's not like that matters in Smash Bros, where we shoot your canon out of a cannon!

I'm actually really amazed at what Sakurai can do for these characters. Most only have around six animations to use, yet he's able to make the character really stand out. Sure, Ike is nothing like how he is in his games (he had a higher speed cap than strength cap in FE9, and they were the same in FE10), but he was able to establish Ike as a unique fighter in Smash Bros., which I think matters more than accurately representing your canon, within reason of course (Chrom using tomes would be really stupid, imo).

Fire Emblem discussion is fun guys!

What can I say I like smash, I like Fire Emblem and I like useless debating about things where our points will have literally zero affect on anything anywhere ever.

 

[kikaru]

Just copied and pasted from Chrom's thread, though it may not be the most creative moveset I still think it's not too shabby and it does bring in traits that other characters do not have such as a semi-permanent buff acquired through pulling off a chain of attack, a combined counter and reflect/ counter + ranged counter, and essentially a stance mechanic that alters the moveset for the same character (Zelda/Sheik do not count for this as they are different characters). But if this isn't enough maybe Habanero just wants to see a moveset that heavily integrates Chrom's semi-delicious tooshie.

Spoiler

B: Critical Strike. This will be a chargeable attack but can be used even with partial charge. This attack will cause Chrom to swiftly leap-strike to an enemy while dealing a great amount of damage and knockback. This will be a two-hit attack in that the first hit will be relatively weak but locks the opponent in hit-stun while the second attack will deal a significant amount of damage and knockback the enemy. The leap can be partially controlled by tilting the control stick in forwards and backwards tilt will control how far Chrom leaps while an upward and downward tilt controls how high Chrom leaps.


B^: Falchion Finality. Chrom leaps straight into the air and crashes down with the Falcion as seenhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ5EQcLJ9C4&t=1m23s] in this video [/url]. Because Chrom does not have a dash available to him in midair, his B^ would allow for greater horizontal coverage to make up for it.


Bv: Draw/Withdraw. Chrom will either draw or withdraw the Shield of Seals. His standard A-attacks and aerials will change slightly depending on if he wields the Shield of Seals or not (So some of his standard attacks, aerials, and combo strings will utilize the shield itself, this will be an important concept later). His B> will also change depending on whether or not Chrom wields the Shield of Seals.


(Without Shield of Seals)

B>: Dual Support+. Upon activation an ally of Chrom will appear and block an incoming attack depending on the nature of said attack. (Dual Guard+) If the attack is a projectile Chrom will summon Robin, if the attack is melee then Lucina appears instead. (Masked/Unmasked, whatever your preference is) After the initial attack is blocked Chrom will quickly retaliate with a slash with his Falchion, during the hitstun of this attack the summoned ally will also retaliate, thus performing a two-hit combo. (Dual Strike+)

If Lucina counterattacks then she can either perform a dash attack, upwards slash, or downwards slash depending on the directional tilt of the attack upon activation. The dash will provide the most knockback and send the target flying diagonally, the upwards slash sends the target straight into the air, and the downwards slash will cause a ground bounce/meteor effect depending on what is beneath the target.

If Robin counterattacks then he will send a bolt of ethereal energy in the direction Chrom is facing. This attack will travel across the screen.

Edit: Essentially Robin or Lucina would quickly warp in to block the attack, while the attack is blocked Chrom will slash with the Falchion quickly followed by a counterattack from either Robin or Lucina. They will disappear afterwards. (So it is a combination of Counter and Reflect)


(With Shield of Seals)

B>: Awakening. Chrom will attempt to perform a chain attack similar to Marth's Dancing Blade. Instead this can only be activated three times in succession as opposed to four, and each successful activation will cause Chrom to attack twice in very rapid succession. Each successful hit will add one gem to the Shield of Seals. Upon the third successful activation (Chrom will have possession of four gems at this point since he has successfully performed the attack twice) Chrom will perform only one strike (Thus acquiring the final gem, possessing Argent, Azure, Vert, Sable, and Gules) quickly followed by a burst of blue flame that engulfs Chrom and hits targets on both sides of him.

After being baptized in Naga's flame, Chrom's Falchion is tempered and becomes the Exalted Falchion. The hilt will shine a brilliant blue while the blade itself emanates an orange glow. All attacks involving the Falchion will deal slightly more damage and knockback. Chrom will maintain the Exalted Falchion until he is KO-d, thus he will need to successfully perform the Awakening again.


Final Smash: Chrom's Shepherds. Chrom will summon his Shepherds to attack the enemies on screen. Each Shepherd will be able to perform a unique action. (Pretty similar to Crophyournameistoodamnlongandhardtospell's)

Lissa and Maribelle will both heal Chrom for a certain amount.
Avatar, Mirel, and Ricken will cast Elthunder, Elfire, and Elwind respectively.
Fredrick will gallop in on horseback and strike the enemy, occasionally yelling, 'My body is ready!' as his battle cry.
Sumia swoops in across the screen on a Pegasus dealing damage to all targets she hits.
Vaike will begin eviscerating anyone who is near him with his axe.
And Kellam will try to get noticed but ultimately fails.


With this I would like to have two play styles that Chrom players can enjoy, one of which is with the shield while the other is without. If Chrom successfully performs the Awakening I do not want the Shield to be useless so to remedy this I will make it so that in general Chrom's standard attacks, aerials, and combo strings are slightly more reliant/ favorable when wielding the Shield regardless if the Awakening was successfully performed.

However, the drawback to this is that he will not be able to strike with the new Exalted Falchion as often, nor will he be able to use Dual Guard+. He will still be able to perform the Awakening again, though he will not receive any further buffs. So now players must pick between a stronger, more defensive playstyle by choosing to rely solely on the Exalted Falchion or an aggressive, more combo reliant playstyle by wielding both the Shield of Seals and the Exalted Falchion. I'm hoping to achieve a balance here and may or may not buff/nerf aspects here and there until both methods are close to being balanced. (One idea right now is giving Shield Mode a meteor smash upon successful activation of Awakening)

 

[ZeldaMaster]

Man I swear.... Fire Emblem is by far the hardest franchise to rep. Moreso than Pokemon. It kinda makes you think... what if Roy and Marth weren't in Melee, and Fire Emblem had never been brought to the West...

 

[Igneous42]

Man I swear.... Fire Emblem is by far the hardest franchise to rep. Moreso than Pokemon. It kinda makes you think... what if Roy and Marth weren't in Melee, and Fire Emblem had never been brought to the West...

The funny thing is it's really not. People just have very unrealistic expectations about it more so than probably any other franchise in Smash. Really it's a testament to how many great characters there are in the Fire Emblem games. And I'd be very sad if it was never brought to the west, it's one of my favorite series.

 

[kikaru]

Man I swear.... Fire Emblem is by far the hardest franchise to rep. Moreso than Pokemon. It kinda makes you think... what if Roy and Marth weren't in Melee, and Fire Emblem had never been brought to the West...

I would imagine that in Japan they would still receive Roy and Marth in Smash as they were initially planned, then I would think that the hardcore fanbase of Smash would have petitioned/ voiced their opinions of having the characters at least in the next game. Perhaps they may even have done something similar to what Project Rainfall did and still eventually localize the series considering that it shares many of the same mechanics and style as Advanced Wars, which the West has seen. But these are all what ifs that I can't say for sure.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Man I swear.... Fire Emblem is by far the hardest franchise to rep. Moreso than Pokemon. It kinda makes you think... what if Roy and Marth weren't in Melee, and Fire Emblem had never been brought to the West...

Pokemon is easy actually.

Brawl Pokemon + Mewtwo/Newtwo is the most likely and popular possibility.

Although for FE, I think it really only boils down to...

Marth
Ike
Roy and/or Chrom

That's my bet.

Sakurai could blindside us and include Anna or something but, I don't think thats gonna happen.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

a. Point out to where I am throwing insults.
If you seriously think saying that an irrelevant point means "jack ****" (as in, it holds no meaning) is throwing an insult, then you are being overly sensitive.
Now, if I said something on the order of "everything you say is worth jack ****", then it would be throwing an insult.

b. Pointing out that speculation does not work out in an argument of facts is not "whining and complaining about how its impossible" (which makes no logical sense whatsoever, by the way).
Speculation is speculation; it cannot be used to prove a point that is supposed to be backed by facts.

c. This last post of yours is more "throwing insults like a child" and "whining and complaining" than any of my posts in this discussion, in an ironic twist. But instead of telling you to just leave, I'm going to suggest you knock it off if you want me to take you seriously.



Point to where I called you an idiot. Saying using speculation as fact is idiotic =/= calling you an idiot.
And no, you didn't claim where he "may" he got his moveset from, you were claiming where he did get his moveset from in an effort to prove my statement about how Ike doesn't have all that much from within his game.

I'm going to suggest to stop lying. People can see the posts and see how you were never directly insulted and how you were using speculation as fact to prove my argument wrong.

Calling someones points idiotic is pretty much calling them an idiot or did you not learn that. Did I at any point state my speculation was fact? Hmm? I'm not seeing it. I was stating where he possibly got his moves from nothing more, If you got that impression I apologize. All I see is someone who wants to pick a fight.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Calling someones points idiotic is pretty much calling them an idiot or did you not learn that.

Saying "you did a stupid thing" does not mean "you are stupid."

He didn't insult you. Buck up.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Saying "you did a stupid thing" does not mean "you are stupid."

He didn't insult you. Buck up.

I guess I overreacted.. -Sigh-

Don't let me distract from the main purpose of this chat by me being illogical. Continue onward with the fun discussion.

 

[Deleted member]

Calling someones points idiotic is pretty much calling them an idiot or did you not learn that. Did I at any point state my speculation was fact? Hmm? I'm not seeing it. I was stating where he possibly got his moves from nothing more, If you got that impression I apologize. All I see is someone who wants to pick a fight.

Yeah, you're overly sensitive, as I didn't say your points were idiotic either. I said using those speculation points as proof to back up a claim is idiotic. BIG. DIFFERENCE.
...and yeah, what Swamp said. Saying someone did a stupid action is not the same as calling that someone stupid.

And:

Ike's tilt is from his normal swings, his jump attack from mid-air is from the opening of path of radiance and his non-killing critical, his 3rd a move in his combo is based of his downward swing in radiant dawn, his taunts are from Radiant Dawn. His jumps are from the same crit I mentioned earlier. His heavier swings are from the Black Knight. His B move while semi borrowed from Roy could be a reference to the spell Bolganone. Or is a reference to his final strike against the final boss in Radiant Dawn. Need I go on?

This is not stating possibility.
That's stating as fact. The only one that is a "possibility" is the "could be a reference to the spell Bolganome" part. Everything else is said in wording of complete factuality as if it cannot be denied.

Except that there is no proof that Eruption is based on either Bolganome or the goddess blessed strike from Radiant Dawn, there is no proof that Ike's heavy hits were taken from Black Knight.
Hell, there's really no real proof of the other things outside of some similar animations, which I'm well aware of due to the video I know for a fact you're referencing.

So to use them as a counterpoint to my statement in that Marth and Ike have very little from their home game in their Smash appearances IS treating them as fact and doing more than "simply stating where Ike possibly got his moves from".

And the irony of claiming me as someone who wants to pick a fight is that you were the one to pick it in the first place.

Or did you forget this little gem?

Marth and Ike still borrowed moves from their games. A good amount of Ike's moveset comes from his actual style like his forward B being his critical from FE9. His rougher sword style being from his father. I could argue they based Ike on FE10 Ike considering he is slow in comparison to quite a number of people. Still fast but not the fastest. Slower in brawl as to make him even more different then Marth obviously but still. Ike's moveset takes ALOT from Path of Radiance and Radiant dawn.

Marth was made not only from his various stabs and swings from his own games, but Jugdral Swordmasters and their various moves [FE4/5 Sword master critical is totally where he got the Dolphin Slash from among other things]

Roy's style has no roots from his home game? The Sword of Seals Totally didn't use fire in FE6

they didn't max out the differences they could have between Marth and Roy but saying Roy had nothing from his own game is laughable.

How is facepalming at what I said as if I said something stupid and saying what I said is laughable any different from your perceived notion that saying your points are idiotic is the same as calling you an idiot?
And at that point, I wasn't even talking to you in the first place. So really, I had a random stranger insult my intelligence out of the blue. Does that make any sense?

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I worded it extremely poorly, I had ment to say. "I think these moves are -example here-" but I forgot the important start. I did not tend to make them seem like fact ok?

I misread your earlier comments towards Roy and had thought it was a jab at the fact that he had nothing from his game what so ever. I wanted to try to explain where I had seen the moves Marth, Ike and Roy used before. As I said above, I did a miserable job at it.

Can we let bygones be bygones now? I apologize for this entire incident. That only someone as dumb as I could start.. -sigh-... Total overreaction on my part

 

[Deleted member]