You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[•Col•]

Honestly, Castle Siege could've been SO much better with just a little bit of extra touches thrown in. It was my favorite stage in Brawl but....

• The transition between stages, in my opinion, was kind of lame. I understand they have an invisible floor because everyone has different falling speeds, but I rather have just like had a piece of the floor or something collapse with the fighters on it.

Completely agree. Looks REALLY dumb when you see it the first few times and it comes off as lazy. I'm sure they could have made everyone go into their falling animation. Just think about on the Pirate Ship stage after the ship gets lifted up by the tornado and starts falling back down.

They could've just really cranked down the gravity and put people into free fall in between Castle Siege transitions.

• I know this is nit-picky, but Fire Emblem is not a series for catapults. We see lots of fireballs and stuff thrown around... it feels like they captured a generic epic fantasy battle and not Fire Emblem.

Eh.. I dunno. I think it's fine considering Ballista's are super common in FE and a catapult isn't that much of a stretch.

• This "generic epic fantasy battle" theme is likely responsible for the third stage of this battle. Did George Lucas create this stage or something? How did we end up here? That said, it does not play bad or anything, but maybe it would have made more sense for Bowser's castle?

I didn't mind the music of the stage that much considering it had plenty of good tracks and Brawl let you set the odds of a song playing on each individual stage.

• Second level, while cool in concept, could have been better. Maybe a wall could have been smashed open to allow for more light, and the floor to both sides could have been collapsed to avoid walk-off KOs.

I quite liked the second part of the stage. It had things plenty of other stages did not. It had a walk off, which only a handful of Brawl stages had, and meaningful destructible environmental objects.

I actually think the biggest problem with the 2nd part was the overall positioning of the platforms. The ones on the sides were fairly high up making it hard for characters with a poor 2nd jump to take advantage of them while on the ground.

 

[Hong]

Eh.. I dunno. I think it's fine considering Ballista's are super common in FE and a catapult isn't that much of a stretch.

It is, though. It is because flying ballistic missiles are not as cool to look at, so they went with flaming catapult loads instead.

Edit - The more I think about it, the more I feel it is more likely we will see Chrom and Lucina or Chrom and Robin as a united fighting force.

The problem with transforming/switching characters in the past is you really have one character you like more than the other(s), or you were given a needless penalty for not switching. In this case, they will both share a damage %, but function very differently, and their specials will change based on which character is active and which is on is stand-by. This way, it always feels like the full character is engaged. I think it could offer gameplay unlike anything the series has seen, and better represents the spirit of the series.

Eg. your standard special is "Dual Strike". If you are controlling Chrom, Lucina will quickly lunge in for a multi-hitting attack that you can time for combos or shield pressure. if you are controlling Lucina, Chrom jumps in for a leaping attack, which takes a bit longer, but packs a punch and is a great way to finish your combo. While Counter could still be instant, the functionality would change as well depending on who is paired.

The ideal system wouldn't penalize you for wanting to just "main" one character, but as long as the specials are good, they will both actually be utilized.

 

[•Col•]

It is, though. It is because flying ballistic missiles are not as cool to look at, so they went with flaming catapult loads instead.

Edit - The more I think about it, the more I feel it is more likely we will see Chrom and Lucina or Chrom and Robin as a united fighting force.

The problem with transforming/switching characters in the past is you really have one character you like more than the other(s), or you were given a needless penalty for not switching. In this case, they will both share a damage %, but function very differently, and their specials will change based on which character is active and which is on is stand-by. This way, it always feels like the full character is engaged. I think it could offer gameplay unlike anything the series has seen, and better represents the spirit of the series.

Eg. your standard special is "Dual Strike". If you are controlling Chrom, Lucina will quickly lunge in for a multi-hitting attack that you can time for combos or shield pressure. if you are controlling Lucina, Chrom jumps in for a leaping attack, which takes a bit longer, but packs a punch and is a great way to finish your combo. While Counter could still be instant, the functionality would change as well depending on who is paired.

The ideal system wouldn't penalize you for wanting to just "main" one character, but as long as the specials are good, they will both actually be utilized.

1. If Chrom were to get into the game in any way, I'd want it to be with a pair up system.
2. Even though I want it, I highly doubt Chrom will get in with a pair up system considering Sakurai specifically said they were already having trouble with dual type characters like Ice Climbers with the 3DS. I understand the way you're describing isn't the same as how Ice Climbers work, but still sounds complicated. Also, they couldn't even get Diddy+Dixie Kong duo to work for Brawl.
3. That system you're talking about sounds like an idea I came up with several years ago for a Sothe+Micaiah dual character.

 

[Igneous42]

Divine Decree Ablaze is still a favorite of mine.

This music has to be in Smash WiiU/3DS, it's not just one of my favorite Fire Emblem songs but one of my favorite gaming tunes period.

 

[FlareHabanero]

If Chrom is going to be included, there is not going to be a pair up system. For starters, something like that would be a technical nightmare, and similar to the Ice Climbers there is a very big risk of exploiting the mechanics and causing a disruption to the balance. Overall, not a very good idea of a mechanic. Remember the key thing is that one mechanic might work in one game, but wouldn't work in another. The pair up mechanics work wonders in a strategy role playing game like Fire Emblem, but it's a far more tricky thing to do in a fighting/party hybrid game like Super Smash Bros.

 

[jaytalks]

I don't think the pair up mechanic is likely, but I could see it as something Sakurai would at least try. Sakurai and his team have made some very innovative and different characters. Honestly, it's the thing I look most forward about the character reveals: the way Sakurai include in game mechanics to make each fight similar to their actual game. If it's not FE and the pair up system, I hope to see it with another character. Innovation that is.

For music, my favorite song in the game is Id (Sorrow), but that doesn't really fit a fighting game. So I guess I will have to go with Id (Hope).

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't see it happening. It's a ridiculous idea actually. It only works for certain characters, and people are desperately using it to make Chrom and Lucina look more unique. Fact remains they are really boring additions compared to a lot of the main characters in other Fire Emblem games.

Also, confession time: I actually like Sacred Stones.

 

[Infinitroll]

I think it's a given that marth and chrom will be in the new smash. But what if there was a 3rd? I personally would like to see tiki. For those who don't know, tiki is a reaccuring fire emblem character. She has been around since the first game, and is was playable in awakening. She is also very powerful and is a manakete (species able to transform into dragons). I say she would be good for a few reasons. One, she is a big character in fire emblem. Two, she would be a unique character in smash. And also, she would be another female in the game. Her moveset could work in a few ways. She could be in dragon form, and fight like charizard. Of course with her own moves. Or she appears in human form, and when she attacks, dragon parts appear. For example, pressing A would throw a punch. While she throws the punch, a dragon hand appears and swipes at the enemy. When she jumps, dragon wings appear on her back giving her gliding abilities. This is just my idea. I would like to know what you guys think of it, And any ideas you have for a 3rd character.

 

[Infinitroll]

I actually wrote an idea for a 3rd character here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/ideas-for-a-3rd-fire-emblem-character.338352/

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yet people will be persistent with the "fact" that we're forced to get Chrom or Lucina whether we like it or not. I doubt the statements that come out of those mouths are genuine passion and are simply words made so that there is a sense of righteousness. Being the most recent is apparently all that is needed, and that is such a trump card that everything else debated means absolutely nothing and we're forced to enjoy something so unappealing. It's like being forced to enjoy a bag of rocks, it doesn't sound fair at all.

Maybe I'll be optimistic in the future depending on the chain of events that happen.

 

[Igneous42]

If Fire Emblem gets three reps it's most likely going to be Marth, Ike and Chrom. If it were lucky enough to get a 4th I'd say Roy, Lucina and Lyn would stand the best chances. Robin/MU is feasible as well, though I still think unlikely. Realistically hoping for anything much past that is setting yourself up for disappointment. That said, the idea you suggested is actually pretty cool and I found Tiki to be a very likeable character, she was one of my top choices for characters I wanted to S rank (lost out to Aversa for my first/main play through). She is the character I plan on S ranking for my current play through.

 

[Infinitroll]

Yes, I know getting anyone besides a lord would be nearly impossible. I just put tiki because she appears in many fire emblem games. More than any of the lords. So if we were to get a character besides the lords. I'd say tiki is first pick. And good luck on your playthrough.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

We already have a thread for this.

 

[8-peacock-8]

I just put tiki because she appears in many fire emblem games. More than any of the lords.

 

[Igneous42]

Yet people will be persistent with the "fact" that we're forced to get Chrom or Lucina whether we like it or not. I doubt the statements that come out of those mouths are genuine passion and are simply words made so that there is a sense of righteousness. Being the most recent is apparently all that is needed, and that is such a trump card that everything else debated means absolutely nothing and we're forced to enjoy something so unappealing. It's like being forced to enjoy a bag of rocks, it doesn't sound fair at all.

Maybe I'll be optimistic in the future depending on the chain of events that happen.

Really it's just the realistic, logical conclusion. Melee had Marth and the most current main lord, Brawl had Marth and the most current main lord. No reason to assume it will be any different this time around. And in addition to being the most recent he also has the fact that Awakening was the most successful games for the series in a while, the best first month sales the series has seen in the west. In addition to those reasons Chrom is a popular character whether you like it or not.

 

[Infinitroll]

Yes, anna appears alot. But she hasnt really done anything until awakening. Tiki has always had a role in the games she has been in.

 

[Igneous42]

double post

why you no load correctly forum?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Really it's just the realistic, logical conclusion. Melee had Marth and the most current main lord, Brawl had Marth and the most current main lord. No reason to assume it will be any different this time around.

Oh goodie, haven't had a patternist around in a while. Just because something happened in a previous Smash game or two doesn't mean it will continue to happen in future games. By your logic, we should still only have one character each for DK, Metroid, Kirby, and Mother.

Oh, and Roy wasn't the most recent Lord at the time of Melees release, since his game was still in development. Whoops.

And in addition to being the most recent he also has the fact that Awakening was the most successful games for the series in a while, the best first month sales the series has seen in the west.

SALES DON'T F***ING MATTER. If they did matter, Ike wouldn't have been in Brawl.

Edit: Not like anyone actually thinks sales matter though, it's just a cover for the recency argument.

In addition to those reasons Chrom is a popular character whether you like it or not.

But very few people are comparatively requesting him for Smash.

 

[Infinitroll]

We already have a thread for this.

Sorry if there is. Im pretty much a noob on this site.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sorry if there is. Im pretty much a noob on this site.

Eh. No prob. Just post your ideas in the FE general discussion thread.

 

[jaytalks]

Yet people will be persistent with the "fact" that we're forced to get Chrom or Lucina whether we like it or not. I doubt the statements that come out of those mouths are genuine passion and are simply words made so that there is a sense of righteousness. Being the most recent is apparently all that is needed, and that is such a trump card that everything else debated means absolutely nothing and we're forced to enjoy something so unappealing. It's like being forced to enjoy a bag of rocks, it doesn't sound fair at all.

Maybe I'll be optimistic in the future depending on the chain of events that happen.

As a Lucina advocate, I would say it's based on my passion for the character. I have been a lurker on these forums forever now, but Lucina is the first character to actually make me want to argue for. I was reading some of the really bad arguments against her, and joined the forums to argue a viewpoint in her favor. If it was about recentness, I would be in favor of Chrom, or at least in the slightest. But when I argue for Chrom it's because likelihood (and for a Final Smash with Lucina); he's not even in my top 5 Fire Emblem characters for Smash 4 and that's not even including Ike.

And Igneous42 makes a good point very precisely as well.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

And Igneous42 makes a good point very precisely as well.

Yeah, I mean patterns are just such compelling evidence. I bet he thinks we'll get a 4th Starfox character as well.

 

[Igneous42]

Oh goodie, haven't had a patternist around in a while. Just because something happened in a previous Smash game or two doesn't mean it will continue to happen in future games. By your logic, we should still only have one character each for DK, Metroid, Kirby, and Mother.

Oh, and Roy wasn't the most recent Lord at the time of Melees release, since his game was still in development. Whoops.

SALES DON'T F***ING MATTER. If they did matter, Ike wouldn't have been in Brawl.

Edit: Not like anyone actually thinks sales matter though, it's just a cover for the recency argument.

But very few people are comparatively requesting him for Smash.

His game being in development would still make him the most recently created lord and made total sense to promote an upcoming game. And I don't believe Ike's support was really eclipsing Chrom's or anything but he was also the logical choice since, you know he was the main character and all. And that's not to say there can't be more than 2 Fire Emblem reps, but even if there are they aren't going to start picking random nobody characters who have no significance to the plot.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Nobody is exactly saying we should get like, Amelia or something, because generally speaking something notably significant should get in, which in the case of Fire Emblem is usually the varies Lords throughout the series.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

His game being in development would still make him the most recently created lord and made total sense to promote an upcoming game. And I don't believe Ike's support was really eclipsing Chrom's or anything but he was also the logical choice since, you know he was the main character and all. And that's not to say there can't be more than 2 Fire Emblem reps, but even if there are they aren't going to start picking random nobody characters who have no significance to the plot.

Nice moving the goalposts there. By that logic, for all we know the new FE rep for Smash 4 could be whatever the main lord/character of FE14(or FExSMT) ends up being. And you still haven't proven that your little pattern means d!ck.

 

[Croph]

I don't know why people are so fixated on sales and recentness. Not only that, I don't think it's that reliable basing stuff on patterns as we only have 3 games to go by; there is always the possibility of pattern-breaking in the future.

Roy wasn't added in Melee to promote FE6; Sakurai has never implied that. I like to think promoting FE6 was an added side bonus; in the end FE6 did get promotion, but it had nothing to do with why Roy was chosen.

 

[Igneous42]

Nice moving the goalposts there. By that logic, for all we know the new FE rep for Smash 4 could be whatever the main lord/character of FE14(or FExSMT) ends up being. And you still haven't proven that your little pattern means d!ck.

Well if a new Fire Emblem is in development it wouldn't surprise me at all if the main Lord from that game ended up being a new rep in Smash. However I seriously doubt that a new entry in Fire Emblem is far enough in development at this point to where IG would suggest that lord as a character in Smash. And my "pattern" argument was hardly the only point I've made but just for the sake of arguing is there any reason to assume that this particular pattern will change in Smash this time around? Pretty much every argument you can use against Chrom you could have used against Ike as well yet he was still the one that got in. The only thing that is different this time is that Fire Emblem is more popular, at least in the west. Said popularity is in large part because Awakening did so well, which Chrom is the main character of. Yeah he might not be the most interesting character ever but he is still the main character no matter how you look at it.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Well if a new Fire Emblem is in development it wouldn't surprise me at all if the main Lord from that game ended up being a new rep in Smash. However I seriously doubt that a new entry in Fire Emblem is far enough in development at this point to where IG would suggest that lord as a character in Smash.

It's probably far enough in development that IS has at least a main character idea. Remember, FE13 finished development over a year ago. That leaves more that enough time to do some planning for the next title in the series.

And my "pattern" argument was hardly the only point I've made but just for the sake of arguing is there any reason to assume that this particular pattern will change in Smash this time around?

Is there any evidence it won't?

Pretty much every argument you can use against Chrom you could have used against Ike as well yet he was still the one that got in.

Such as? I never heard anyone say that Ike was boring, and I never heard anybody use sales to support him.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I wouldn't exactly call the situation regarding to Ike and Chrom the same thing. Ike is far more popular then Chrom could ever be, and there was generally a more positive atmosphere with Ike then Chrom. Not to mention from a gameplay prospective, Ike's capabilities made him a good character to contrast with Marth due to the Ragnell. He was generally more blunt with his capabilities then Chrom could ever be.

 

[Igneous42]

It's probably far enough in development that IS has at least a main character idea. Remember, FE13 finished development over a year ago. That leaves more that enough time to do some planning for the next title in the series.

Which is not a point I'm arguing, if there is a Fire Emblem game far enough in development the new Smash rep could very well be the main lord from that game.

Is there any evidence it won't?

Simply that certain patterns in these game have continued since the first one, and while I agree that three situations isn't much to base a pattern off of without reason to believe something a pattern won't happen then it's logical to assume that it will continue to do so. Most people seem to agree that the original 12 will all be present because they have been in all three game so far. The burden of proof is on your shoulders in this case, if you believe there is a strong reason for Sakurai to not choose the most recent main lord as a newcomer you have to supply reasons as to why someone else would make more sense. I'm also not suggesting there can't be more than Marth and Chrom, in fact I very much hope Fire Emblem gets a third spot. As I said in my first post it really comes down to just being realistic, sure if you disregard the past games then anything could happen. You might as well be arguing for Master Chief because Sakurai has yet to state that the rules for third parties are going to be the same this time around. However anyone who looks at the situation logically will know that Master Chief isn't going to be in Smash 4.

Such as? I never heard anyone say that Ike was boring, and I never heard anybody use sales to support him.

I wouldn't exactly call the situation regarding to Ike and Chrom the same thing. Ike is far more popular then Chrom could ever be, and there was generally a more positive atmosphere with Ike then Chrom. Not to mention from a gameplay prospective, Ike's capabilities made him a good character to contrast with Marth due to the Ragnell. He was generally more blunt with his capabilities then Chrom could ever be.

I've actually heard a lot of people say they disliked Ike. Many said he was boring and even more I see people call him a gary-stu. And this is the only forum where I've seen people act negative about the idea of Chrom being in Smash. Most other places seem perfectly fine with the idea. You say he's disliked but he was voted the most popular male character in the game by Japanese fans and I believe the second most popular character overall after Lucina if I'm not mistaken. So clearly he is well liked enough that he still outshines most of the case from his own game. And I agree that Ike made a great contrast to Marth, much more so than Chrom, but I don't see that as the deciding factor of getting on the roster. Personally I'd like to see all three though, I'll be very sad if we only get two FE reps and Chrom just has Ike's moveset pasted on him.

Just out of curiosity what if your logic for assuming that Chrom (or possibly Lucina but more likely Chrom) wouldn't be the primary candidate?

 

[Jaedrik]

Yes, anna appears alot. But she hasnt really done anything until awakening. Tiki has always had a role in the games she has been in.

Hey, check out the essay in my sig.
Tiki would be cool too, though.

To everyone else: Humans are notoriously bad at being random. Humans are also notoriously good at noticing patterns.
And Igneous, don't let your right side of the brain rule the left side of your brain. Think. Patterns mean nothing in this context, there are many examples of them being broken, and there is no rule saying they are compelled to be followed, in fact, far from it.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

The burden of proof is on your shoulders in this case, if you believe there is a strong reason for Sakurai to not choose the most recent main lord as a newcomer you have to supply reasons as to why someone else would make more sense.

No it isn't. You're making the claim, I'm disputing your claim. The burden of proof is on you. So far the best evidence you've provided boils down to "well there's no reason he(Sakurai) wouldn't pick Chrom, therefore he'll pick Chrom."

And this is the only forum where I've seen people act negative about the idea of Chrom being in Smash. Most other places seem perfectly fine with the idea. You say he's disliked but he was voted the most popular male character in the game by Japanese fans and I believe the second most popular character overall after Lucina if I'm not mistaken. So clearly he is well liked enough that he still outshines most of the case from his own game.

Yet on Shortie's current poll(which has 1500 voters from a number of sites), Chrom still lags behind Roy for the most wanted FE character, and isn't even close to other heavily requested newcomers like Ridley or K. Rool. Regardless of what his popularity among FE fans is, I've actually seen relatively little genuine support, and more people like you just bandwagoning on to him as being "inevitable."

Just out of curiosity what if your logic for assuming that Chrom (or possibly Lucina but more likely Chrom) wouldn't be the primary candidate?

-The fact that he doesn't bring anything particularly new or interesting in terms of a playstyle(and no, being able to chuck a javelin really doesn't help him stand out).
-The fact that he's very similar to both of the FE characters currently in Smash.
-The fact that(from my experience) most of his "supporters" tend to be pushing him as an inevitability rather than genuinely supporting him.

Hm....now that I think about it, Chrom is sorta like the Mitt Romney of political candidates, but with fewer legit supporters and an actual legit rival.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just gonna throw something out there.

Two events do not form a pattern.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The only way Chrom is going to standout is if he emphasized to an extent the varies weapons he can potentially use in Fire Emblem: Awakening.

 

[Croph]

Given the context of how long it usually takes for FE games to get released (once every ~2 years), I'm expecting a FE14 announcement perhaps by the end of this year, possibly being released before SSB4. This does not guarantee much content in SSB4, however, as Radiant Dawn has little content in Brawl. But you never know with Sakurai/IS. At any rate, I do believe that Sakurai has different priorities this time around than during Brawl in regards to choosing a FE newcomer. He may not feel the need to add a new face or perhaps wanting to focus on unique gameplay, being a potential deciding factor. He may not ask IS for suggestions this time. Who knows...

 

[Deleted member]

The only way Chrom is going to standout is if he emphasized to an extent the varies weapons he can potentially use in Fire Emblem: Awakening.

Or if he's given a new style made for Smash like what Sakurai essentially did for the other 3 FE characters.

If Fire Emblem characters are solely to be judged based on what they have in their games, none of the ones added already would be worth a damn.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Or if he's given a new style made for Smash like what Sakurai essentially did for the other 3 FE characters.

If Fire Emblem characters are solely to be judged based on what they have in their games, none of the ones added already would be worth a damn.

True enough. Still, even with that I don't see him being anything but similar to Ike.

 

[Igneous42]

No it isn't. You're making the claim, I'm disputing your claim. The burden of proof is on you. So far the best evidence you've provided boils down to "well there's no reason he(Sakurai) wouldn't pick Chrom, therefore he'll pick Chrom."

There are two things wrong with this statement, first of all you cherry picked part of my quote and then used it in a wrong context. The burden of proof I speak of was specifically aimed at the patterns concept. You claim that there is no reason said pattern should continue to exist yet you show no evidence of why it wouldn't. As the pattern has happened consistently int he past even with a small amount of data it still is my proof. If I drop an apple of a building twice there is no reason to believe that, unless something changes it won't happen the third time. In this instance it's that Sakurai has always chose Marth and the newest primary Fire Emblem Lord. You haven't given me any reason to believe he won't do the same thing. I think there is a good chance that we might get a 3rd spot, but I still see no reason that it wouldn't be Chrom. Your argument holds as much weight as suggesting Rosalina will replace Peach or that Ninten will replace Ness.

Second you claim on my evidence is also wrong. I've stated that he makes sense for being the most recent lord, that he makes sense because he is from one of the most successful entries in the franchise and that despite your feelings on him he is a popular character. Your answer to pretty much all of those points is a simple save the popularity one is pretty much just yelling no and not actually countering with any actual evidence.

[quote="shinpichu, post: 15661108, member: 211963"Yet on Shortie's current poll(which has 1500 voters from a number of sites), Chrom still lags behind Roy for the most wanted FE character, and isn't even close to other heavily requested newcomers like Ridley or K. Rool. Regardless of what his popularity among FE fans is, I've actually seen relatively little genuine support, and more people like you just bandwagoning on to him as being "inevitable."[/quote]

1500 is an abysmally small number when you consider that Brawl sold over 10 million copies. The majority of Smash players are a silent majority. In addition said poll is being targeted mostly to Smash players who will logically have a bias towards Roy and even if Chrom lags behind Roy he still is higher than any other Fire Emblem Rep. And in the end popularity while certainly a factor, isn't the end all be all, if it was Ridley and K.Rool would have been in Brawl and Ice Climber, R.O.B and Wii Fit Trainer would have barely been considered.


-The fact that he doesn't bring anything particularly new or interesting in terms of a playstyle(and no, being able to chuck a javelin really doesn't help him stand out).
-The fact that he's very similar to both of the FE characters currently in Smash.
-The fact that(from my experience) most of his "supporters" tend to be pushing him as an inevitability rather than genuinely supporting him.

Hm....now that I think about it, Chrom is sorta like the Mitt Romney of political candidates, but with fewer legit supporters and an actual legit rival.[/quote]

Those are reasons you don't want him, not reasons why he wouldn't realistically get in. The third point there is pretty much true, and that's because we are just realistic about our expectations.

 

[•Col•]

1500 is an abysmally small number when you consider that Brawl sold over 10 million copies. The majority of Smash players are a silent majority.

And as we all know, Sakurai primarily listens to the people who don't say anything about their desires for the next Smash games.

.........owait..

And this quote is kinda why people dislike Chrom around here:

"What is the uniqueness of this character? What does this character bring into the Smash Bros. universe? What do they have that other characters don't? How do they complement or contrast other characters?"

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/17/44...director-masahiro-sakurai-character-selection

 

[Robert of Normandy]

There are two things wrong with this statement, first of all you cherry picked part of my quote and then used it in a wrong context. The burden of proof I speak of was specifically aimed at the patterns concept. You claim that there is no reason said pattern should continue to exist yet you show no evidence of why it wouldn't. As the pattern has happened consistently int he past even with a small amount of data it still is my proof. If I drop an apple of a building twice there is no reason to believe that, unless something changes it won't happen the third time.

If I go buy a lottery ticket, and win $100, then buy another and win $100 again, would it be logical to assume that every future lottery ticket I buy would net me $100 bucks?

In this instance it's that Sakurai has always chose Marth and the newest primary Fire Emblem Lord. You haven't given me any reason to believe he won't do the same thing. I think there is a good chance that we might get a 3rd spot, but I still see no reason that it wouldn't be Chrom.

You haven't given me any reason to believe that your little pattern means anything either. Again, YOU'RE making the claim. The burden of proof is on you to provide evidence.

And I have provided evidence that Sakurai does not stick to patterns. Mother, Metroid, and Donkey Kong did not gain any new representatives in Melee, so for two games their rosters remained unchanged. By your logic that should have remained true.

Your argument holds as much weight as suggesting Rosalina will replace Peach or that Ninten will replace Ness.

What? When have I suggested anyone getting replaced by a much less important or popular character?

Second you claim on my evidence is also wrong. I've stated that he makes sense for being the most recent lord,

Except neither Roy or Ike were picked because of recentness, they were picked because Sakurai thought they were the best choices at the time for a variety of reasons.

that he makes sense because he is from one of the most successful entries in the franchise

Sales don't mean jack. Again, if they did, Path of Radiance would not have gotten as much content as it did in Brawl.

1500 is an abysmally small number when you consider that Brawl sold over 10 million copies. The majority of Smash players are a silent majority. In addition said poll is being targeted mostly to Smash players who will logically have a bias towards Roy and even if Chrom lags behind Roy he still is higher than any other Fire Emblem Rep. And in the end popularity while certainly a factor, isn't the end all be all, if it was Ridley and K.Rool would have been in Brawl and Ice Climber, R.O.B and Wii Fit Trainer would have barely been considered.

Fair enough. Still, calling 1500 votes a tiny sample size is funny coming from the guy who thinks two games is good enough to indicate a pattern.