You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[Deleted member]

Wouldn't it be awesome, but extremely unlikely if we get 5 characters for all the franchises, except for ones like Pikmin and maybe others that might seem redundant to have five.

"Oh, hello there."

 

[bobadz]

"Oh, hello there."

I love that game, but jeez is that cover cluttered.

 

[Deleted member]

I love that game, but jeez is that cover cluttered.

Oh, the irony!

 

[kikaru]

Finished Awakening a few weeks ago and I have to say this was by far the best Fire Emblem I have enjoyed playing. The game itself was beautiful, the gameplay was fun and challenging, the amount of bonus content is ridiculous (Almost makes me want to play all the SNES/NES Fire Emblems) and the character supports were enjoyable. My biggest qualm would have to be the lackluster multiplayer though.

As far as the roster is concerned my prediction is that we will get some combination of Marth, Ike, X, and/or Y. These characters would include Roy, Chrom, and maybe Lyn and Luciana. The possibility of having only two Fire Emblem characters is also possible but would be incredibly disheartening in which case my prediction would be Marth and Ike.

The problem with Chrom is that Awakening could be a one-shot game (Flavor of the month-ish) and that Chrom would be the one-shot character. However, Awakening could take a similar path that the Radiance series did and produce a sequel, in which case Chrom would have significantly increased chances. (The crossover FE may or may not be relevant in this case.) Furthermore the only way I can foresee Luciana getting in would be that the Awakening series receives two characters being Chrom and Luciana. (Very unlikely as it is)

Overall I would be very pleased with having three Fire Emblem characters but would be the most content if Chrom was the third character as Awakening was an amazing game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Said this in the Lyn thread to, but know what, my choice for a Fire Emblem roster would be:

Marth, Ike, Roy and Lyn.

-All popular characters.
-Balance in Eastern popularity and Western popularity
-All unique fighting styles dispite all characters using swords
-No 'lol blue hair' issues / bull****
-Most Smash fans are all familiar with all these characters

Though I still say I wouldn't really mind Chrom or Lucina.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Been reading the Fire Emblem 4 manga since a few days, and whoa does it do the story justice! Especially the plot of Sigurd having to face his old friend Elthsan.

Damn it Sigurd, why you gotta be so awesome?

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Alright. Time to bump this thread so we can leave anna's alone.

Secondly, "success" means nothing for FE. FE9 (Ike's first game), was the worst selling game in the FE series in Japan, yet he got in. That right there should end all sales arguments when it comes to "sales" meritting inclusion.

No, it does. Success isn't a direct factor but it is an indicator of another. FE9 didn't do well but people enjoyed the game. There are other reasons why it didn't succeed. FE13 did great in sales and thats undeniable evidence that it was a great game. This part is my opinion but I think is sort of absurd that the highest selling game in a series would go ignored.

Also, it is condemnable to support Chrom for no other reason aside from being "recent" and "a shoe-in". Basically, they don't like the character or have any personal experience with it, but they just want to go with whatever they think is the most likely scenario.That is certainly condemnable.

But we support him for more reasons than that. Which you constantly ignore time and time again. Everytime your present the same argument despite what has been previously said. "Chrom is bland and people just want him because hes recent". The same goes for "all people only support Lucina because shes a girl" crap. But this is all wrong.

Also nobody said he was a shoe-in but you seem to think roy is.

That is pretty much your opinion. I am pretty much one of the best experts when it comes to FE on this site. I know what I am talking about when it comes to FE. I think you are letting your fanboyism blind you.

Irony at its finest.

 

[ChronoBound]

This part is my opinion but I think is sort of absurd that the highest selling game in a series would go ignored.

FE13 is not the highest selling game in the series. FE3 and FE4 sold better than FE13 in Japan. The two GBA FE's sold better in the US.

But we support him for more reasons than that. Which you constantly ignore time and time again. Everytime your present the same argument despite what has been previously said. "Chrom is bland and people just want him because hes recent". The same goes for "all people only support Lucina because shes a girl" crap. But this is all wrong.

You support him for those reasons. I am talking about places like GameFAQs who have not even played FE13 that support him for "he is the most recent lord. therefore he is the most likely character to get in."

And yes, there are people whom support Lucina just because she is a girl.

Also nobody said he was a shoe-in but you seem to think roy is.

There are plenty of idiots at GameFAQs and NeoGAF who say Chrom is a shoe-in.

Secondly, please tell me WHEN I have EVER said Roy was a shoe-in.

 

[FlareHabanero]

At this point, no character is a guarantee. However, I can say that people that are harboring on Chrom and Lucina should not claim that ether are a shoe-in. Both characters can easily be overlooked by virtue of what little they offer to the table, though at the same time very few Fire Emblem characters in general offer anything special. They could be picked, but from the prospective of the general audience they don't really offer much. Neither have that wow factor to make people want to play the game, which is a tad discouraging from a design standpoint and would lead to criticisms. But then again, Fire Emblem characters as a whole lack that feeling. Roy is in a similar boat, but because of his generally larger fanbase all around, that character would lead to general satisfaction more in the long run. However even if Chrom/Lucina and Roy are together on the same roster, criticisms are going to spring up over the lack of imagination with the Fire Emblem characters and generally lead to a bit of a sour taste in everyone's mouths.

I'm not much of a Roy fan, but I just don't see how Chrom or Lucina would be a win-win situation.

 

[Curious Villager]

But we support him for more reasons than that. Which you constantly ignore time and time again. Everytime your present the same argument despite what has been previously said. "Chrom is bland and people just want him because hes recent". The same goes for "all people only support Lucina because shes a girl" crap. But this is all wrong.

Thank you!

I'm getting pretty tired of some people telling me "You don't really like *insert name of new guy* you only like him because he's recent" or "You don't really like *insert name of female character* you only like her because she's female".

It's actually possible to like characters who just happen to be new or are female because you actually do genuinely like them and not because their the "new guy" or have a ****** between their legs. Basically what I'm trying to say is. Don't generalize.

 

[kikaru]

Unless people actually state their an opinion that a character is a shoe-in let's not assume things. Just because forumer X supports character Y doesn't mean that forumer X believes character Y is a shoe-in. (This can also be applied if forumer X argues against the chances of character Z. This does not mean character Z has absolutely zero chances of getting in). Even with my support for Lloyd Irving for example I can recognize his shaky chances.

 

[•Col•]

Thank you!

I'm getting pretty tired of some people telling me "You don't like *insert name of new guy* you only like him because he's recent" or "You don't like *insert name of female character* because she's a female".

It's actually possible to like characters who just happen to be new or are female because you actually like them and not because their the "new guy" or have a ****** between their legs. Basically what I'm trying to say is. don't generalize.

Honestly its completely understandable why he'd make that female fan generalization.

YOU WEREN'T AROUND FOR PRE-BRAWL MAN, YOU JUST DON'T EVEN KNOW.

For a long, but interesting read: http://smashboards.com/threads/roy.324203/page-15#post-15462440


EDIT: Also it might help if someone actually explained why you like a character, rather than just saying you like them. I'd actually like to hear what true fans of Chrom actually think about him and what he could bring to the table in the long run.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I do understand the whole flaws by harboring on shallow words that something is a shoe-in and something that has no chance. But, you got to keep in mind as to what would satisfy people the most in the long run. This where the doubting part comes into play and where you have to think about the consequences of these actions. Even the most subtle thing can have a notable effect, so in the long run you have to think what would make the most people happy.

 

[ChronoBound]

Thank you!

I'm getting pretty tired of some people telling me "You don't like *insert name of new guy* you only like him because he's recent" or "You don't like *insert name of female character* because she's a female".

It's actually possible to like characters who just happen to be new or are female because you actually like them and not because their the "new guy" or have a ****** between their legs. Basically what I'm trying to say is. don't generalize.

The thing is though is that there is a lot of people that support a "new guy" solely due to being new or a female solely due to being female. I think people here twisted my statement to say that ALL supporters for new guys or females support them for being new guys or females.

 

[Curious Villager]

The thing is though is that there is a lot of people that support a "new guy" solely due to being new or a female solely due to being female. I think people here twisted my statement to say that ALL supporters for new guys or females support them for being new guys or females.

Then it would be for the best if these things were actually made more clear in order to avoid confusions. Because I have seen people accusing those who happened to genuinely like the likes of Zoroark and Chrom for "only liking them because their recent" and honestly. It gets pretty annoying after a while.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Secondly, please tell me WHEN I have EVER said Roy was a shoe-in.

Roy is obviously going to get one of them considering not only he is the most wanted FE character, but he was also planned for Brawl.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Only thing obvious to me at this point is that we'll get a Fire Emblem newcomer. Honestly, I wouldn't care too much if Chrom made it over Roy, but I just prefer Roy cause of his Sword of Seals.

I wish we could just get Hector or Sigurd actually.

I've became a huge Sigurd fan again now that I'm reading a FE4 manga. (Will probably read the FE6 manga after this but it appeals far less to me cause of that other kid)

Spoiler

I CANNOT BRING IT IN ME TO KILL YOU ElTOSAN!!!

 

[FalKoopa]

Gingerbread Man really does have a point, I concede. We all have a tint of bias inside us and a soft spot for our favourite characters and that contributes in part to our dislike of anyone who competes with him/her.

Well, let's just drop the discussion.

 

[Deleted member]

Gingerbread Man really does have a point, I concede. We all have a tint of bias inside us and a soft spot for our favourite characters and that contributes in part to our dislike of anyone who competes with him/her.

Well, let's just drop the discussion.

I agree, although ChronoBound only said that statement If we got four Fire Emblem characters, not that he was a shoe-in overall.

 

[ChronoBound]

I sure hope you realize the context of that was that Roy would be virtually guaranteed IF we got FOUR slots for FE. I doubt anyone else would disagree that Roy would be one of the four if FE got four playable characters.

So try again.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Roy may not be the 3rd FE character, but he'll most likely be the 4th.

 

[Deleted member]

I gotta agree with GM that looking at sales figures as an indicator of a game's success is a flawed endeavor. There are many factors that can contribute to inflated sales, including, economy, console install base, marketing (in modern times this also includes viral), and so on.

Just because FE9 and 10 sold worse than previous FE games doesn't mean that they were unsuccessful, or even LESS successful that previous games.

The Gamecube had a relatively small install base in the west AND in the east, (it was up against the PS2), especially when compared to the SNES. Likewise, The GCN was not known for RPGs, both of these things led to Ike's games being overlooked. While the SNES is renowned for being a great console for RPGs, PS2 coming in 2nd. Likewise with the Wii, while it DID have a large install base, FE10 being a sequel of the already overlooked 9, and not being very marketed also led to the lower sales. Furthermore, the game got poor reception from "critics" (IGN and the like) for being overly difficult, which worked against it considering the Wii's original install base consisted of Soccer Moms and Children.

The point is, the situation back in the SNES, was different from the situation with the GBA, which was different from the situation with the GCN/Wii, which is different from now. Doing cross-generation comparisons on a game's success is like comparing the Price of Gas now to the 1920's. We're talking about two VERY different environments.

Anyway, I don't think Sakurai looks at sales when determing a character's importance. He's looking at how prominent that character is among fans. Ike got in because IS suggested him, because IS KNEW he was well recieved among fans.

Same reason Lyn stands above Eliwood and Hector in IS's eyes, and why Chrom and Lucina ACTUALLY have a decent shot. Roy, if we really look at him now, is irrelevant to the series. The Elibe arc is long gone, and thus both him and the rest of the Elibe lords are old news. IF there is a remake, then he would become relevant again, but that's just talk, just like there is talk about the old Rare employees wanting to work on a Spiritual Successor to Banjo. Thus, Roy's merits don't lie within his importance to the series. Even IF he denotes the "revival" of the series for Japanese fans. It would be like trying to push Blaziken, Deoxys, or another 3rd Gen Pokemon on the roster because the 3rd gen is the revival of the Pokemon franchise.

Roy's merits lie in that he is an important and well liked character among fans of the series AND more importantly, fans of Smash, that is something people cannot deny, and something that Sakurai will look at. Now all that matters is how THAT compares to other factors when deciding the FE roster. Roy is no shoe-in, not even if there was a 4th slot. A 4th slot basically increases his chances, like for every other candidate, but certainly does not guarantee him.

 

[Diddy Kong]

A thing going on for Roy which basically cannot be ignored is that Sakurai is a dude that vallues his friendships. And he was credited in FE6's ending, even as 'Special Thanks: Masahiro Sakurai'. And even if he would just responds with '[laughs]', it could be this thing, plus Roy's massive popularity world wide to push him to get Roy back in. He WAS chosen to return again for Brawl, only Ike out prioritised him. For some good reasons actually.

And honestly Manly, if Roy is too irrelevant, I'm affraid so is Lyn. I would like both in however. Here's hoping Awakening and SmTxFE will raise support for both a bit more, and also warranting Ike's stay.

Cause in all actuality, Ike returning is the only thing I'm stressed about regarding Fire Emblem.

Btw this was that one scene in the manga I was talking about earlier:

Spoiler

Honestly, screw Eliwood. Sigurd IS the most tragic Fire Emblem character ever.

 

[Deleted member]

And honestly Manly, if Roy is too irrelevant, I'm affraid so is Lyn. I would like both in however.

Of course.

Both are irrelevant to the series at this point. It's what I implied with my statement.

All of the Elibe lords are old news, this includes Lyn, Hector and Roy.

Anyway, I didn't know about Sakurai being credited in FE6. I always skip credits. That certainly gives Roy SOME edge.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Emulator lets you speed up with the space button so it wasn't really that much of a virtue of patience. Also I believe you can only see the character endings after the Credits so... I always love those.

Pic 4 Proof:

Well, you have to take it from me that this is from FE6's credits BUT I'M A REAL TRUSTWORTHY BLOKE AFTERALL!

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I sure hope you realize the context of that was that Roy would be virtually guaranteed IF we got FOUR slots for FE. I doubt anyone else would disagree that Roy would be one of the four if FE got four playable characters.

So try again.

There's more than 2 competitors for the FE slots. Calling him a shoe in for the fourth is still an extremely arrogant statement. I always thought everyone on smash boards, including you, was completely against the whole certainty thing. If you're going to stand by what you said, please don't send us any more posts complaining that Gamefaqs thinks chrom is 100%. We're not gamefaqs and that's hypocritical even if it is just the 4th slot.

 

[kikaru]

Opinions on the DS Fire Emblem games? I'm thinking about picking those up (Even though one is Japanese only I'm sure I can find translation guides/patches). How do they compare to the GBA/3DS games?

 

[FalKoopa]

Apparently they aren't that good. Though better ask Chronobound, our Fire Emblem expert.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Opinions on the DS Fire Emblem games? I'm thinking about picking those up (Even though one is Japanese only I'm sure I can find translation guides/patches). How do they compare to the GBA/3DS games?

I'd say if you're getting one, get FE12. FE11 was alright but it wasn't anything to write home about. If you're comparing it to other games, its going to feel like a large step back as it is a remake.

Side note: The portraits bothered me in those games. Their faces are so blank and emotionless. Usually you can at least tell a bit about a character's personality just by their expression and pose. Without those traits the dialogue feels more dull than it should.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Opinions on the DS Fire Emblem games? I'm thinking about picking those up (Even though one is Japanese only I'm sure I can find translation guides/patches). How do they compare to the GBA/3DS games?

Your mileage may very. A lot of people really don't like Shadow Dragon because it's very old fashioned. They didn't do much to update the game besides the presentation and adding the weapon triangle, the new prologue, and a few new characters you'll probably never see because you have to kill off your other characters. There's no support conversations, and Marth can't promote and is fairly weak compared to other Lords in the series. I personally enjoyed it, but it's probably the weakest FD game I've played.

New Mystery has been much better received, though you'll need to use the fan translation to play it.

 

[kikaru]

Thanks, much appreciated fellas!

 

[Deleted member]

Opinions on the DS Fire Emblem games? I'm thinking about picking those up (Even though one is Japanese only I'm sure I can find translation guides/patches). How do they compare to the GBA/3DS games?

11 is meh,
12 is pretty good.

I say pirate them, since 12 doesn't have a western release and 11 isn't worth the cash.

 

[Croph]

A thing going on for Roy which basically cannot be ignored is that Sakurai is a dude that vallues his friendships. And he was credited in FE6's ending, even as 'Special Thanks: Masahiro Sakurai'.

Oh man, I forgot about that. It was really nice to see him credited actually.

I haven't played any FE DS games...though I always wanted to try 12.

 

[ChronoBound]

There's more than 2 competitors for the FE slots. Calling him a shoe in for the fourth is still an extremely arrogant statement. I always thought everyone on smash boards, including you, was completely against the whole certainty thing. If you're going to stand by what you said, please don't send us any more posts complaining that Gamefaqs thinks chrom is 100%. We're not gamefaqs and that's hypocritical even if it is just the 4th slot.

Its not arrogant. It pretty much looks that way if you look at a variety of different factors. If there were four slots for FE, Roy is definitely very likely for one of them, regardless of how you personally feel. Its like calling me arrogant for me saying that if we got fourth Star Fox character we would get Krystal, or that if DK got four characters, Dixie Kong would be one of them.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Its not arrogant. It pretty much looks that way if you look at a variety of different factors. If there were four slots for FE, Roy is definitely very likely for one of them, regardless of how you personally feel. Its like calling me arrogant for me saying that if we got fourth Star Fox character we would get Krystal, or that if DK got four characters, Dixie Kong would be one of them.

You've changed from definitely to likely; that's what I wanted.

A 4th FE slot means that a big competitor was accepted to the third spot. This logically makes EVERY other contender more likely for the 4th spot, not just Roy. If anyone has a chance for the first FE newcomer spot, they have a chance for the second. Roy is no guarantee.

 

[ChronoBound]

You've changed from definitely to likely; that's what I wanted.

A 4th FE slot means that a big competitor was accepted to the third spot. This logically makes EVERY other contender more likely for the 4th spot, not just Roy. If anyone has a chance for the first FE newcomer spot, they have a chance for the second. Roy is no guarantee.

The thing is though considering that Roy is a very strong contender for a third spot, he most likely would nab a fourth slot in the event he was not the third FE character chosen. I think Roy's main competition in Smash 4 is time constraints than any other FE character to be honest.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Just for the record, but Fire Emblem characters barring Marth are not exactly vital in the long run.

 

[Deleted member]

Just for the record, but Fire Emblem characters barring Marth are not exactly vital in the long run.

One could also make an argument for Ike considering the attention IS is putting on him, and the fact that he too has two games just like Marth (remakes don't count).

 

[ChronoBound]

One could also make an argument for Ike considering the attention IS is putting on him, and the fact that he too has two games just like Marth (remakes don't count).

I still think Priam/Paris was a way of shutting up the "Ike is a homosexual" crowd. Homosexuality in Japan (especially among men) is still considered shameful unlike the West.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Homosexuality in Japan (especially among men) is still considered shameful unlike the West.

Funny, today isn't opposite day.