You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[Deleted member]

I'm surprised that no one had anything to say about this:

But getting back on-topic, let's think to Sakurai's four criteria. One of them he mentioned was that a character had to be unique. Now granted, while this doesn't mean that a character needs move set potentials to be unique, it does show that the character shouldn't be generic.

I'm not even sure if Chrom stands out at all. I mean, Lucina plays as important, if not more of an important role than Chrom does when she arrives, FE13 is basically FE All-Stars, and Chrom is a pretty dull character overall. I question if Chrom even meets the criterion of having to be unique. If he doesn't, then he's out. No amount of screaming recentness as a reason to put him in (let alone axe Ike for him) would change that.​

​

 

[Banjodorf]

I'm surprised that no one had anything to say about this:

QUOTE!​

Well, I think the level of uniqueness required is subjective, and as we've seen before, Sakurai's model in that regard is somewhat flexible. As I've said many, many times before, I strongly support 4 DKC slots, and 4 FE slots. Chrom is another blue-haired dude with a sword. (Honestly it's like a qualifier for a male FE Lord who isn't Roy or Eliwood at this point.) Check.

BUT that doesn't mean they can't take his moveset and make him feel unique. I enjoyed Wolf, and look what people thought about that. (Landmaster was lazy. Very lazy, but that can be fixed! Overall Wolf felt totally unique.) Basically I think it may not be wise to jump the gun on something so subjective as level of uniqueness before condemning a character. Looks can be deceiving.

 

[FlareHabanero]

It's kind of weird, Fire Emblem should be in theory a series that would provide varies types of game play styles, like lances, axes, spears, bows, varies magic, and such. But we're stuck with the generic sword users like Chrom. To me, Fire Emblem feels like some sort of missing potential for something more grand, but we cannot have nice stuff because why the hell not. It's like a big **** tease I tell you.

 

[---]

We are going to get some more SMT x FE details in 1.5 months, so that will probably give us some more to chew on. If the previous lords in FE have an important role in that game, I am really curious how they will look.

Please don't let them use the SMT artists do redesigns, I just know it'll turn out worse than the guest art from FE13.

Speaking of those other lords...I've only played Sacred Stones, Path of Radiance and Awakening all the way through. I was thinking of starting one of the translated SNES ROMs to get a feel for the other lords. Who knows, maybe I'll vaguely support one for Smash. Should I just start with FE4 and move up?

Would go in this order if I were you: 7/11 (the most basic games, also are in English), 3/6/12 (the most basic Japanese games), 10 (can be very hard until you get Ike), 1/4 (here the gameplay starts to differ a bit but still generally basic), 2/5 (major gameplay differences, and in 5's case, the hardest game in the series).

It's kind of weird, Fire Emblem should be in theory a series that would provide varies types of game play styles, like lances, axes, spears, bows, varies magic, and such. But we're stuck with the generic sword users like Chrom. To me, Fire Emblem feels like some sort of missing potential for something more grand, but we cannot have nice stuff because why the hell not. It's like a big **** tease I tell you.

Definitely, but then again there's not much that can be done about it. Most lords generally use swords (for obvious reasons once you get into the gameplay factor/tradition), only Hector/Ephraim/Micaiah differ in this trend but they each have to share the spotlight with someone else and are pushed aside in someways.

 

[bobadz]

We are going to get some more SMT x FE details in 1.5 months, so that will probably give us some more to chew on. If the previous lords in FE have an important role in that game, I am really curious how they will look.

When was it being shown during the E3 period said.

Also if nothing else, we'll hear what Marth, Roy and Ike sound like in English.

 

[KassandraNova]

I don't think he'll replace Marth.

Chrom will probably just replace Ike, and personally I'm cool with that, just keep my princess Martha around and I'm happy. :3

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I don't think he'll replace Marth.

Chrom will probably just replace Ike, and personally I'm cool with that, just keep my princess Martha around and I'm happy. :3

should I even attack you...man I'm trying so hard to suppress my rage

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

*Reads all the things about Chrom being uninteresting and maybe being overlooked*

Sheeesh, so is it just that let's bring back the Melee Veteran (who was a clone) best way to go for current FE-representation currently? I feel like Awakening would get badly shafted in means of representation (and it has been so successful too). I hope I'll be for some suprise which is Chrom might be featured because whatever he'll be going through to be considered, I wonder how it turns out. Though I'd just bang my head to a wall if he was to become a semi-clone.

But I dunno man, it's a problem anyway that FE just keeps using same character archetypes for lords anyway. Maybe we could let Chrom use lances aside from sword and the whole Exalted Falchion-thing going for him-

You know what, I'm going to see if I make Chrom interesting myself...

 

[FalKoopa]

should I even attack you...man I'm trying so hard to suppress my rage

He should get no sympathy from you.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Sheeesh, so is it just that let's bring back the Melee Veteran (who was a clone) best way to go for current FE-representation currently? I feel like Awakening would get badly shafted in means of representation (and it has been so successful too).

Music, trophies, stages, stickers.

There, Fire Emblem: Awakening representation. Now stop harboring on the opinion that everything must have a character on the roster to represent stuff.

I hope I'll be for some suprise which is Chrom might be featured because whatever he'll be going through to be considered, I wonder how it turns out. Though I'd just bang my head to a wall if he was to become a semi-clone.

Well if he does show up, he's going to be one of the dullest inclusions in the history of Super Smash Bros. Do you like boring things? Don't know about you, but that guy is pretty hopeless for anything interesting.

But I dunno man, it's a problem anyway that FE just keeps using same character archetypes for lords anyway. Maybe we could let Chrom use lances aside from sword and the whole Exalted Falchion-thing going for him-

You know what, I'm going to see if I make Chrom interesting myself...

Tried to make Chrom interesting, but it turned out to be a poor-mans version of Shulk.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, I think the level of uniqueness required is subjective, and as we've seen before, Sakurai's model in that regard is somewhat flexible. As I've said many, many times before, I strongly support 4 DKC slots, and 4 FE slots. Chrom is another blue-haired dude with a sword. (Honestly it's like a qualifier for a male FE Lord who isn't Roy or Eliwood at this point.) Check.

BUT that doesn't mean they can't take his moveset and make him feel unique. I enjoyed Wolf, and look what people thought about that. (Landmaster was lazy. Very lazy, but that can be fixed! Overall Wolf felt totally unique.) Basically I think it may not be wise to jump the gun on something so subjective as level of uniqueness before condemning a character. Looks can be deceiving.

Uniqueness is NOT subjective.

I'm not even gonna bother repeating my tired arguement anymore. People just haven't bothered to listen.

I don't think he'll replace Marth.

Chrom will probably just replace Ike, and personally I'm cool with that, just keep my princess Martha around and I'm happy. :3

Chrom will never replace Ike. Not when Ike tops out Western polls.

We might see Chrom and Ike side by side.
Or Lucina and Marth.

Or Lucina as an Alt. of Marth with Roy coming in for 3rd spot.

I don't think Chrom is abad character, he's just wasted potential. Then again I haven't played FE13.

Oh, also, Anna will be an AT at best. She's actually the BEST candidate for a FE AT.

 

[ChronoBound]

Oh, also, Anna will be an AT at best. She's actually the BEST candidate for a FE AT.

Personally, I think the best candidate for a FE AT is Tiki. She has been a playable character in ever FE game released after Brawl, and she is the most famous character of the Mamkute/Manakete arche-type.

I know Tri-hyphen will say the Pegasus Sisters with the triangle attack would be the best candidate for a FE AT.

Which goes to show we can't even agree on who the AT newcomer for FE should be.

On a sidenote, I just played a bit of FE9 for the first time in at least a year. I was doing the trial maps with Ike by himself, and my Ike is a beast. He maxed out every stat except luck (which he almost maxed out) and magic (which is almost impossible for Ike to max out).

This Ike can solo maps and not even get hit.

Further talking about FE9, the one thing I don't like about FE9 (and 3D FE in general) is how long the animations are. Even when you turn the battle scenes off in FE9, the attack animations are longer than other FE games. Still FE9 is my favorite home console FE after FE5.

Also, I viewed the ending cutscene the FE9 again (where Ike was trying to give Elincia confidence to take the throne), and I just remembered how much I disdained FE10's story/plot and how upset I was with FE10 for ruinning Ike as a character. Yaoi freaks had to get their way. I really thought Ike x Elincia could have been a touching story (and you kind of see this at the end of FE9).

FE9 overall probably had the best story of all the international FE's.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Music, trophies, stages, stickers.

There, Fire Emblem: Awakening representation. Now stop harboring on the opinion that everything must have a character on the roster to represent stuff.

I don't think Awakening being represented like AC would justify it's massive success. Even if we get all the things above, I think Chrom (or hell, any other playable character from Awakening) missing would really, really stick out sorely. And we're talking about a big game which doesn't have characters that don't look like they can fight (as much as AC also was very successful).

Well if he does show up, he's going to be one of the dullest inclusions in the history of Super Smash Bros. Do you like boring things? Don't know about you, but that guy is pretty hopeless for anything interesting.

That's what a lot of characters were like to some people (dull or uninspired or seem to do one thing) before they got in Smash too or were well-received. (R.O.B, and I have to admit, Wolf). Even Pac might turn out to be this for me (as much as I call him boring or uninspired too.)

I'm just saying that Chrom might get a moveset that tries to think something somewhat out-of-box from himself and makes him something new instead of being stuck on "looks like Ike, might fight like Marth/Ike". If his source characterization don't seem to work, then build something new and then try to add something to them from himself instead of sticking him out as that. It's taking a risk and maybe it's something undone before (because most of the characters added were looked on what they bring), but if we can make Chrom be a fresh addition with that, then I'm sure we would just bury down everything about "Chrom being a dull addition."

I think Chrom's problem is his character archetype being just a mix of two existing characters for many, an to address that it'd be best to find some new middle ground that tries to deviate away from both. And maybe find a line where he stands as his own because of some new crafted things. Maybe I'll try to tackle out something like this myself.

Also I can't see why Roy's any better, again. He might just end up as a clone too. The notable thing that seemingly drives him as a better rep is his veteran status. So is Roy still better than Chrom?

Tried to make Chrom interesting, but it turned out to be a poor-mans version of Shulk.

Well we're not sure dead-on if Shulk would take everything what Chrom would be if he even is going to be featured. And like I said, I think we could bit take liberty deviating away what Chrom seems to be like in order to find something new to him.

 

[FalKoopa]

@Young Horsetail
By any chance, is FE13 your first Fire Emblem game?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Fal: Nope. FE7 is. And then comes FE4.

FE13 being the all-star game and thus the game that I can come back to reminiscence the whole series in a way is quite a bonus though.

But really, if FE13 was my first FE-game, would it matter? I dunno man, I mean I guess I'm still kind of a newbie, but I don't know should I be just be ready for worst because I tend to like a lord many find dull and I'm not that much of a veteran yet.
But I guess it's better to jump on majority of what others think so I won't either be shunned upon or worse, be disappointed?


Sometimes I don't know what I exactly what. Maybe I'm just trying to avoid disappointment because everything here in speculation seems to majorly tell me "I shouldn't wait for this character" or "there's always the better choice I don't seem to prefer much..."

I guess I'm just always with unrealistic or unpopular choices? Except Palutena, Dixie and arguably Toad.

 

[FalKoopa]

@Young Horsetail
I see. I asked because I find people tend to get attached to the lord of the first game they play.

If you post a moveset that is in-character and interesting, I'm sure many would change their opinion.

Like what GoldenYuiitusin did for Pac-Man. He posted an exhaustive list of his abilities from his games in Roster Discussion Thread, and many of us changed our opinion.

As far as I am concerned, I'm neutral to Chrom's inclusion (though tilting towards negative mostly because many see him as a replacement for Ike and/or Roy.)

 

[Fire Emblemier]

True, but I rather have Lucina, for being IMO the best character in Awakening, story and unit-wise, or have Lyn, not just for AT thing, but being the first lord in the west.

 

[Opossum]

Fire Emblem Awakening actually is my first FE (I'm looking into getting others, but they aren't exactly easy to find barring EBay...), but while I do support Chrom, I wouldn't be terribly distraught if he wasn't playable.

It could be sort of cool if his Specials involved certain skills, like Sol and Luna (technically he can only get these via Aether, but eh, creative liberties...), Aegis (1/2 damage from indirect attacks?), and so forth. I'm stumpt as far as an Up Special. Maybe Sol can act as one. And then maybe a javelin toss to round it off.

The Final Smash could be perhaps

Spoiler

the Exalted Falchion, which lights up, and Chrom performs at a much faster pace with slightly stronger attacks, while yelling "Anything can change!" Then anytime he hits the foe, he heals a bit of health.

Possibly a "bleh" or broken Final Smash, but it's just an idea.

 

[Deleted member]

Chrom could also forego a recovery UpB, and just make up for it by having very good jumps.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ike x Ellincia would've been so awesome... Then again, it's heavily implied she went for Geoffrey, as they could have a paired ending in FE10. Ike was also so damn cold towards Ellincia in the first scene they met in Radiant Dawn. It felt kinda awkward.

 

[ChronoBound]

Ike x Ellincia would've been so awesome... Then again, it's heavily implied she went for Geoffrey, as they could have a paired ending in FE10. Ike was also so damn cold towards Ellincia in the first scene they met in Radiant Dawn. It felt kinda awkward.

I was talking about how things were in FE9. I know how things went in FE10. FE10 was disappointing for me coming off from FE9. I even liked FE8 more than FE10.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Certain things in Radiant Dawn where really awesome though. Part 2 End Game for example was awesome. Ike's chapters in Part 3 where also great. And I really liked Crossbows, and Laguz where also implemented better than in FE9. I just had major beef with Micaiah's part, unbalance in characters, availabilty of characters and the lack of supports of coarse.

Ike in general felt much more cold in FE10 to. Maybe it's from doing all that mercenary work, cause he was pretty inexperienced before he got commander of the Greil Mercenaries in FE9.

 

[ChronoBound]

For international FE games (my opinion):

FE7=FE9>FE13>FE8>FE10>FE11

 

[Deleted member]

I can't even remember how the story went in FE10. I remember it being long. Which I liked. I also remember it having 3rd tier classes, which was awesome. It also had a ton of OP unique units that kicked ass.

Still, I always wondered why Ike x Elincia never happened.

Now if only FE was more like Berserk.

Spoiler

Ike gets with Elincia, Soren gets power hungry and goes rogue, becomes this godly deity, kills all of your units and ***** Elincia while Ike is held down by demons helplessly watching.

Spoiler

Ike then sets out no a quest for vengence

Actually, a Berserk TBS game akin to FE would be all kinds of awesome.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Third tier classes was YESSSSS!! Awesomely delicious.

I also really liked how you got the Mastery Skills automatically in RD, and didn't have to use Occult Scrolls.

Hit rates and the battle system overall where also awesomely balanced in FE10. If you have a 75% hit rate, you can still miss. If you have a 35% chance on a critical hit, you can NOT have criticals even if you double attack. This made the Weapon Triangle much more used. Also, RD had the most awesome characters playable, and be anything good. Namely: Haar, Shinon, Mia, Caineghis, Nephenee...

If anything I hope they'll incorperate more of RD in the next generations of Fire Emblem. Gaint battle maps, huge story, big cast of characters. I liked it all.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

I like to pretend in my mind that nothing in RD is canon. Game was the worst FE released internationally IMO.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I like to pretend in my mind that nothing in RD is canon. Game was the worst FE released internationally IMO.

Shadow Dragon. *cough cough*

 

[Deleted member]

Shadow Dragon. *cough cough*

You know what I hate about Shadow Dragon...

Enemy units spawning at the end of your turn!

That has gotta be the cheapest most bull**** move EVER.

Though I know that's not a SD thing, it's an old school FE thing, and all of them before 6 do it.
I'm already anticipating the nightmere that will be FE5.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Try FE4 first. Seriously. I bet you'd love it.

 

[Deleted member]

Try FE4 first. Seriously. I bet you'd love it.

That's actually next on my list, after FE12.

 

[Diddy Kong]

My God I cannot wait to see your full analysis on what Fire Emblem should take from FE4 to be a more succesful series.

Saying this cause this WILL happen. Without a doubt.

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

So many rustled

I'd be fine with Chrom though. I'd actually like to believe that Ike won't get replaced by him, but I feel as though Nintendo would rather put in the most recent FE regardless of what people think.

 

[Diddy Kong]

But Ike is Ike man... We can't leave him out.

Now THAT.. would REALLY russle my Jimmies. And I don't like having my Jimmies russtled.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

But Ike is Ike man... We can't leave him out.

Now THAT.. would REALLY russle my Jimmies. And I don't like having my Jimmies russtled.

Plus he's not even a clone there's no reason too,
Doc=Mario, Pichu=Pikachu, Mewtwo=Lucario, Roy=Marth, Young Link=Toon Link.
Chrom doesn't fit having Ike's moveset, Ike is made for the moveset.
Edit: Also I feel that Awakening was popular because people knew it was coming out thanks to trailers, and nintendo direct, most people didn't notice the other international ones because there were no trailers seen or Nintendo discussing it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Plus he's not even a clone there's no reason too,
Doc=Mario, Pichu=Pikachu, Mewtwo=Lucario, Roy=Marth, Young Link=Toon Link.
Chrom doesn't fit having Ike's moveset, Ike is made for the moveset.

For the last time.

LUCARIO IS NOT A CLONE OF MEWTWO.

They share two moves. Two moves!

Everything else is different!

 

[Fire Emblemier]

For the last time.

LUCARIO IS NOT A CLONE OF MEWTWO.

They share two moves. Two moves!

Everything else is different!

They replaced him though so it kinda counts

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They replaced him though so it kinda counts

Not in the slightest. Or is Ike a Roy clone, since he "replaced" him?

The only replacement was Toon Link replacing Young Link. And even then, that's iffy considering Toon Link is an "update" to the character of "child" Link.

Besides you know the Mewtwo and Lucario were both intended to be in Brawl right? Their inclusions are not mutually exclusive of each other.

 

[Banjodorf]

For the last time.

LUCARIO IS NOT A CLONE OF MEWTWO.

They share two moves. Two moves!

Everything else is different!

Wait, they share two? I always thought it was only one. Aura Sphere doesn't even work the same way Shadow Ball does (It's all bouncy and bounces Mewtwo backwards because it hates him.) I feel like them having a similar move was just circumstance, considering Aura Sphere is literally Lucario's signature move. Why wouldn't he have that, and why would it work any different even if Mewtwo had never existed? (That would be awful!)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Wait, they share two? I always thought it was only one. Aura Sphere doesn't even work the same way Shadow Ball does (It's all bouncy and bounces Mewtwo backwards because it hates him.) I feel like them having a similar move was just circumstance, considering Aura Sphere is literally Lucario's signature move. Why wouldn't he have that, and why would it work any different even if Mewtwo had never existed? (That would be awful!)

Agreed.

But the other move they "share" is their forward smash.

It acts pretty different but it looks similar. (about as similar as Captain Falcon's and Samus's up tilt)

 

[SwordsRbroken]

There's plenty of moves Chrom could be given to differ from Marth or Ike, like a pizza cutter nair for instance. His fighting style is fancier than the others, so it wouldn't be hard to make him play a good bit differently.