You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[FlareHabanero]

One thing that confuses me about the beach DLC is that the varies characters in it are wearing more modern bathing suits like bikinis, which to me is pretty jarring considering Fire Emblem is heavily influenced by medieval europe. It's like the equivalent of giving Samus a Victorian gown, it just doesn't sound right.

 

[---]

So is FE just an ecchi series now? Do the female characters keep their integrity, personality wise, in the game? Because I can live with fanservice designs if FE's great cast of characters remains intact.

Not really, if it was an ecchi series it'd be a LOT more obvious, FE13 is a lot more mild than the standard ecchi manga/anime. The female characters themselves don't really change all that much integrity or personality wise (except during the confession scenes, the supports are fine but those go a bit overboard). Several of the characters Chrono posted as examples could be argued to follow designs from past games in the series (not Tharja though).

Adding comedic side stories as DLC is very similar to how a lot of OVAs are handled these days, and can offer a lot of character development to already strong characters, even if they're in swimsuits/bikinis (just cause they're dressed like that doesn't automatically make things ecchi, won't argue against those cutscenes though, those are definitely fanservice).

Anyway I do think that FE series will stay with some of the new manga/anime things that were introduced with this game, for sure the comedic side stories, the rest though depends on future gameplay elements like My Unit, Marriage, how deep support conversations get, while the character designs are generally up the artist at hand.

As a side note, I can't help but compare FE right now to the Valkyria Chronicles series in terms of character design and the mild fan service.

 

[ChronoBound]

Since we are still on the topic of FE13's awful character designs:

Let's compare antagonists:

Alvis from FE4:

Spoiler

Zephiel from FE6:

Spoiler

Ashnard from FE9:

Spoiler

Gangrel, Walhart, and Valahart:

Spoiler

 

[FalKoopa]

A thing I want to ask-

FE13's art style is quite different from any of the games preceding it. Why does the artist change with each game?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I like Awakening's villain designs actually. Better than FE4 in my opinion. Something about Alvis' face just looks weird to me....

 

[ChronoBound]

Several of the characters Chrono posted as examples could be argued to follow designs from past games in the series (not Tharja though).

A nearly naked pre-pubescent looking girl does not follow any designs from past FE games. Also, a mage general with her breasts being one wrong move from spewing out of her outfit also does not follow previous FE designs (Sonia again not withstanding).

 

[Deleted member]

I get a Jafar vibe from Valahart.
Without playing the game, I know I like him.

Only thing I would change: make his beard more....twisted....

 

[ChronoBound]

Better than FE4 in my opinion. Something about Alvis' face just looks weird to me....

Alvis had one of the best designs in the entire series. I think its due to the resolution of the image I linked to. Here is two other pieces featuring Alvis:

Spoiler

 

[FalKoopa]

FE13's bosses are...... Strange. I'd prefer bosses to be real humans.

 

[Banjodorf]

Isn't it Validar? He's totally Jafar. Like, no doubt, which is awesome. And after playing Awakening, which is probably my favorite FE ever, I'm totally in the Chrom for Sm4sh boat. Did I already say that? Then I'll say it again. Chrom is beast.

@FallKoopa They *are* real humans, they're just..quirky. Well, in Wallhart's case, he's just a regular guy with a complex. Well, they kind of all are.

 

[Bowserlick]

Is there a prominent FE villain in the series that could be a character?

 

[Banjodorf]

Back in the Pre-Brawl days, people were all about the Black Knight, but those days have passed. I honestly think the FE villains, just like the heroes, change so often (with pretty much every game) that it's much easier to pick a popular player character than single out a villain. I wouldn't be opposed to Validar or Gangrel, but I don't think either of them was technically "prominent" enough. I think mostly people will say Black Knight again, but that might be a stretch.

 

[FalKoopa]

I suppose they should flesh out other universes in the series like Elibe, Tellius and Magvel, instead of creating more universes.

@Bowserlick: I think Zephiel could be. He has quite a bit of history in both the games he appears in.

 

[Frostwraith]

Regarding the whole character design discussion, each of the listed games had a different artist to design the characters:

• Shadow Dragon (original), Gaiden, Mystery, Genealogy, Thracia 776
• Binding Blade, Fire Emblem (Blazing Sword)
  • Ike's DLC artwork was designed by FE6 and 7's designer (this one is hard to believe)
• Sacred Stones
  • Leif's DLC artwork was designed by the same designer of Sacred Stones
• Path of Radiance, Radiant Dawn
  • Marth's DLC artwork was designed by the Tellius saga's designer
• Shadow Dragon (DS)
• New Mystery
  • This game's artist also did Eirika's DLC artwork
• Awakening

Ephraim's DLC artwork was made by the same person who worked on Sword of Seals manga (Hasha no Tsurugi).

 

[FalKoopa]

Binding Blade, Fire Emblem (Blazing Sword)
Ike's DLC artwork was designed by FE6 and 7's designer (this one is hard to believe)

Really? The style of Ike's DLC and the FE6/7 chracters are miles apart.

Off-topic:
Frostwraith, your signature translated to "Moment One thousand Attack"
What was it supposed to mean?

 

[---]

Personally I thought the FE13 villains had okay designs, I don't really see what's bad about them aside from FE13's bland storyline.

A nearly naked pre-pubescent looking girl does not follow any designs from past FE games. Also, a mage general with her breasts being one wrong move from spewing out of her outfit also does not follow previous FE designs (Sonia again not withstanding).

The majority of the recruit-able manaketes have been "moes." Aversa was designed like that because her role in the game is seduction. Panne wears about the same amount of clothes as most laguz do.

I see your point about that they may have pushed things a bit, the artist at least did, but for the most part there really isn't anything new they're introducing here to which I don't think this automatically makes it a case, on IS's part at least, for outright fan service.

 

[Frostwraith]

Really? The style of Ike's DLC and the FE6/7 chracters are miles apart.

Off-topic:
Frostwraith, your signature translated to "Moment One thousand Attack"
What was it supposed to mean?

That's why I said it was hard to believe.

At least Marth looks like Marth as if he appeared in the Tellius saga. Compare below:

Spoiler

 

[N3ON]

I am going to have to severely disagree with you here. As Croph and Frost pointed out, quite a few of the class designs were poorly done, not just the fanservice with a lot of the female characters.

Just look at the beauty to the FE5 ending artwork I posted today. That shows far more intimacy and love than any of those "confession" pics in FE13 (many of which are downright embarassing or hilarious).

Also, is that Lucina in a thong bikini? What the hell IS? What the hell?

That is the first time I have seen that Lucina pic, where is it from? Because I am pretty sure it was not in the beach chapter DLC.

Agree to disagree I guess. I admit the designs are fairly jarring and impractical compared to past designs, but I found them to still be artistically interesting. There are a few, I'd agree, that weren't done well. Nowi was a little uncomfortable (not that surprising though given... Japan), but I liked Nah. I'd also agree many are a departure from past designs, and yeah, they'd be ridiculous in an actual battle, but I didn't hate the overall art style.

And that doesn't mean just because many of the characters are less clothed than normal it was more intimate. I'd agree other games are much better intimacy and personality wise. It's impressive that IS did manage unique supports with almost all the normal characters, but I'd agree many were forced and awkward, and if I ever play it again I won't be matching the same people up, for the most part. The confessions made it feel like a dating sim.

Still didn't mind the character designs (for the most part - there were several I wasn't a fan of), but I totally get where everybody else is coming from. They're not classic FE, they're largely impractical, and many are unnecessarily revealing.

However, with the success of Awakening, I'm not sure Nintendo or IS will be in a rush to change it.

And judging by the other sketches and stuff with the Lucina pic, I'd guess it's some sort of concept art, but seeing as I didn't find it any place official, I suppose there's the chance its fanart. Still, Anna, Tharja, and Cordelia should prove my point.

This is in the game?!?!?

Why IS? Why? I mean I know Anna looks good in a swimsuit () but why?!?!? Please tell me that this is DLC and not canon to the story.

Also Chrono, that isn't a thong.

Ask anybody who refuses to accept we're not going to get Micaiah/Lyn/other female FE character in Smash. Pandering to the same demographic.

 

[FalKoopa]

The picture of Gangrel which Chrono posted made me just...

He looks like a cheap Zephiel knock-off. lol.

 

[ChronoBound]

I see your point about that they may have pushed things a bit, the artist at least did, but for the most part there really isn't anything new they're introducing here to which I don't think this automatically makes it a case, on IS's part at least, for outright fan service.

It is pretty much fanservice though regardless of how much you would like to think otherwise. It only looks tame in comparison to what goes on in other "weeaboo" games.

 

[Frostwraith]

The laguz weren't as revealing as Panne or Nowi. Let's compare:

[collapse="Female Laguz"]

[/collapse]

[collapse="Nowi and Panne"]

[/collapse]

 

[FalKoopa]

The laguz weren't as revealing as Panne or Nowi

I agree.

Nowi and Panne are just... eww.

 

[---]

It is pretty much fanservice though regardless of how much you would like to think otherwise. It only looks tame in comparison to what goes on in other "weeaboo" games.

I guess. But I still wouldn't take this as a sign that the series is going down hill just yet or that IS has lost their way. And let's be honest, FE13 isn't even close to having the worst character art in the series...

And out of curiosity have you ever played the Valkyria Chronicles series? I've got a good feeling that you'd be right at home with it.

 

[ChronoBound]

I guess. But I still wouldn't take this as a sign that the series is going down hill just yet or that IS has lost their way. And let's be honest, FE13 isn't even close to having the worst character art in the series...
.

FE1 was made when the series was a new concept so they probably couldn't afford a decent art designer (I would not be surprised if one of the developers at IS drew the characters for that game).

As for other game similar to FE, Tear Ring Saga is what to look at (it even had the same character designer and director as FE5). Its basically a Fire Emblem game in everything but name (heck, it was so similar to FE that the developer got sued by Nintendo/IS, and the game's name was originally Emblem Saga).

Also, I have a strong feeling they will go further with the anime tropes and fanservice in a proper FE14 due to FE13's success.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Ask anybody who refuses to accept we're not going to get Micaiah/Lyn/other female FE character in Smash. Pandering to the same demographic.

They should totally add Lucius just to screw with peoples heads.

 

[---]

FE1 was made when the series was a new concept so they probably couldn't afford a decent art designer (I would not be surprised if one of the developers at IS drew the characters for that game).

Bah, you're no fun.

As for other game similar to FE, Tear Ring Saga is what to look at (it even had the same character designer and director as FE5). Its basically a Fire Emblem game in everything but name (heck, it was so similar to FE that the developer got sued by Nintendo/IS, and the game's name was originally Emblem Saga).

Also, I have a strong feeling they will go further with the anime tropes and fanservice in a proper FE14 due to FE13's success.

Yeah I know about Tear Ring series, it's too similar to FE if you ask me, that's why I suggested the Valkryia Chronicles series to you. Gameplay's very different but it gives of very similar vibes as the FE series in terms of overall themes and characters and arguably limits fanservice even more so. The first game in particular is in a league of it's own when it comes to art style and in-game graphics.

Yeah I agree they'll definitely keep the anime tropes, fanservice will be there but how it ultimately turns out will depend on the artist.

 

[FalKoopa]

They should totally add Lucius just to screw with peoples heads.

His extremely feminine appearance is remarked only once in the game, that too in support conversation. It could have been a major plot point.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The dude got killed by Bern while defending wn orphanage. Show a little respect.

Besides, he's the only Light Magic user I myself chose to use, he was always amazing end game. Sometimes got Soeed srewed though.

That being said:

RNG Goddess 4 Smash!

Ever got stat screwed? Now's your revenge!

Hard counter to Roy though.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Please, nobody buy those bonds DLC chapters when they come out.
I don't want them getting the impression that we like this...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Please, nobody buy those bonds DLC chapters when they come out.
I don't want them getting the impression that we like this...

Too late for that. It was probably a success in Japan.

I wonder how the Japanese FE fans are reacting to all this.

 

[ChronoBound]

Too late for that. It was probably a success in Japan.

I wonder how the Japanese FE fans are reacting to all this.

I am not sure how much its worth, but in at least one of the one-star reviews I saw for FE13 on Amazon Japan were complaining about the DLC, particularly the beach and spa ones, saying it was grossly out of place for the series.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The Japanese are offended by the fanservice? Wait, is this some sort of parallel universe where it rains from the ground and the sun is cold?

 

[Frostwraith]

I am not sure how much its worth, but in at least one of the one-star reviews I saw for FE13 on Amazon Japan were complaining about the DLC, particularly the beach and spa ones, saying it was grossly out of place for the series.

Wait, WHAT!?

The Japanese are OFFENDED by the fanservice? Did I read that right?

What sorcery is this?!

The Japanese are offended by the fanservice? Wait, is this some sort of parallel universe where it rains from the ground and the sun is cold?

More or less my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I am not sure how much its worth, but in at least one of the one-star reviews I saw for FE13 on Amazon Japan were complaining about the DLC, particularly the beach and spa ones, saying it was grossly out of place for the series.

Is this the general opinion or just the opinion of one individual?

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

FE1 was made when the series was a new concept so they probably couldn't afford a decent art designer (I would not be surprised if one of the developers at IS drew the characters for that game).

As for other game similar to FE, Tear Ring Saga is what to look at (it even had the same character designer and director as FE5). Its basically a Fire Emblem game in everything but name (heck, it was so similar to FE that the developer got sued by Nintendo/IS, and the game's name was originally Emblem Saga).

Also, I have a strong feeling they will go further with the anime tropes and fanservice in a proper FE14 due to FE13's success.

Chrono, I really have to disagree with you about FE5/4 Artist, his art is quite bland and lacking details, actually the best artist are the Magvel and Tellius saga artists followed by FE 6/7 ( I will not forgive him for ruining Ike > ), Fire Emblem 13 artist is the same guy who did No more Heroes, he is actually a really good artist from and artistic viewpoint. Don't get me wrong FE5 is one of my favorite video games of all times ( mostly occupied with Fire Emblem games) but still the amount of details in the armor and the characters is very lacking.

I'll give you an example:

This my favorite character in the game "Galzus"

Spoiler

Those are Donnel and Inigo, both minor characters in the story of Fire Emblem awakening but still the amount of details can't be questioned.

Spoiler

Donnel

Inigo

 

[Banjodorf]

I'm gonna post my overall thoughts about FE13, just because.

I thought it was an excellent game, pretty much. I felt that the art direction, story, and most of all character interactions were excellent. The gameplay was also top notch. I'm one of those people who honestly couldn't find anything I didn't like in the game. I found the pair-up system a much more efficient way to build character supports than in any previous game, and it held alot more synergy.

The story was really good to me, and had quite a few twists that really kept me interested. Chrom is an awesome Lord, and I hope to see him in Smash, as I've said before. The individual character storylines with one another could be bland at times (Cordelia and Vaike is one, since Vaike's personality totally overshadows Cordelia's regimented mindset) but others like Tharja and Frederick and Donnel and Cordelia, are pretty funny or just kind of adorable. I actually found Virion's romance with my female avatar convincing, since I truly believe competition is a good test of true romance.

The combat animations never got old, whereas in past games I've totally turned them off. The paralogues were interesting, and the story felt meaty. I just walked away from the game very, very satisfied. It's sort of sad to see nitpicking on the art direction which I found very good. I guess I'd prefer acknowledgement that everyone has their styles and that even though they might not be someone's taste, they are objectively good at what they're trying to portray. (The only thing that ever bothered me was the leg designs on character art for characters like Cordelia and Lyn, they just look odd, but that's just me, and it doesn't stop Awakening from being fantastic.

I just felt like it had everything FE games should, and then some, which is not something I felt from Radiant Dawn or FE7. (Seriously, Radiant Dawn's support conversations were crazy bland to me.)

Edit; Oh, and if I were to critique one thing, is that I do agree a couple of the classes seemed totally pointless, like the Gryphon Knight, and the Bow Knight but variety is the spice of life, so whatever.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Alvis from FE4:

Spoiler

Nephrite/Neflite?

When did 4 come out again?

 

[ChronoBound]

The Japanese are offended by the fanservice? Wait, is this some sort of parallel universe where it rains from the ground and the sun is cold?

This was at least one person. It should not come as a surprise out there that there are some even among the Japanese who thought some of the stuff in FE13 was out of place for FE, people are not monolithic. Overall, I am sure the rest of the Japanese fanbase lapped it up unfortunately.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm not offended by the fan service but the beach thing seems really stupid to me.

I actually like the designs for the characters overall. Though I wish the general was cooler, since it's my favorite class.

Also, I wish we had an option for the characters to wear the helmets, because some of the enemy designs with the helmets are pretty awesome.

 

[ChronoBound]

Chrono, I really have to disagree with you about FE5/4 Artist, his art is quite bland and lacking details, actually the best artist are the Magvel and Tellius saga artists followed by FE 6/7 ( I will not forgive him for ruining Ike > ), Fire Emblem 13 artist is the same guy who did No more Heroes, he is actually a really good artist from and artistic viewpoint. Don't get me wrong FE5 is one of my favorite video games of all times ( mostly occupied with Fire Emblem games) but still the amount of details in the armor and the characters is very lacking.

Its not so much that FE13's artist did bad artwork, his artwork is of a very high quality, its just that a lot of the designs he did were dumb for several of the classes, and a lot of the designs he did were rather tasteless (as I think Diddy or Frost pointed out, why are a lot of the women bending over?).

Also, the artwork of Galzus you posted was not done by the official artist for FE5. Here is the artwork he did for him:

Spoiler

Nephrite/Neflite?

When did 4 come out again?

Okay, I googled the character you mentioned, and the funny thing is that Alvis looks even more similar to that character in the original artwork released for FE4 back in 1996:

Spoiler