You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[Swamp Sensei]

That is not possible.

Eh. I'm optimistic. Sue me.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Everything is better in life when you are a pessimist.

Because when things go wrong, which they most likely will, you already figured they would.

But when things go right, you have something to feel good about. BUT, you still know that it will eventually lead to things going wrong again

 

[•Col•]

How about Sothe?

And when I found this picture on Google, I found another one a few rows done. It was random.

-pic of Sothe and Micaiah-

Maybe a team? XD

I keep saying a Sothe + Micaiah team would be epic and is the only way I could support them getting in. D:

There's pretty much no chance of it happening unfortunately. And even I'll admit there are several other FE characters that should get in over them.

 

[FalKoopa]

Everything is better in life when you are a pessimist.

Because when things go wrong, which they most likely will, you already figured they would.

But when things go right, you have something to feel good about. BUT, you still know that it will eventually lead to things going wrong again

Such a horrible mindset.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I keep saying a Sothe + Micaiah team would be epic and is the only way I could support them getting in. D:

There's pretty much no chance of it happening unfortunately. And even I'll admit there are several other FE characters that should get in over them.

I still see Micaiah making sense on her own, but Sothe would practically require someone else needing to get him in.

 

[Oasis_S]

Everything is better in life when you are a pessimist.

Because when things go wrong, which they most likely will, you already figured they would.

But when things go right, you have something to feel good about. BUT, you still know that it will eventually lead to things going wrong again

You could just not be such a baby when things don't go your way.

 

[Diddy Kong]

This is why we need Ike to come back.

Yes, yes, YES!

 

[•Col•]

This is why we need Ike to come back.

Yes, yes, YES!

So we can mod the game and make the inevitable trash character broken as hell?

 

[Gingerbread Man]

"General consensus" just means what the fanbase expects; it has no effect on what will actually happen. To use it in an argument doesn't help you, especially when it is "general consensus" that Roy returns. Though out of fairness, 3-4 characters is most reasonable given certain other conditions. However, this does not mean there will be 3-4 characters. Sakurai can just as easily decide that 2 characters are ideal when factoring the end result of Melee and Brawl, and simply have Marth and Chrom as the Alpha and Omega. We simply do not know at this point, and to act as though there is a definite course of action is pointless.

Change general consensus to logical possibility?
I'm not sure why you're including this other than to show that I didn't write down every possibility here, The fact that there could be two reps or that we do not know is completely besides the point.
Also, think about what you are saying. "If there's at least two different FE characters that I think would improve the game more-". That is outright saying your opinion is how things should be. This is a flat out confirmation that because YOU think other characters would "improve the game more", then Roy should not come back. Yes, because when I typed that I meant to be as egotistical as possible. I wanted to imply that my opinion reigned supreme. No. Spend more time criticizing the main argument than my choice of words. This isn't about how I view my own opinion. I'm stating reasons and you argument should focus on those reasons.
In reality, NONE of the available characters would "improve" Smash. Not Chrom, not Lyn, not Micaiah, not even Roy. All any of them would serve is fanservice, as all Smash really "needs" from Fire Emblem is Marth, the overall face of the series. It so happens that the fanbase wants Roy to return more than they want someone else to join the fray. Arbitrary fighting style differences don't mean anything in the long run.

Explain to me how none of the characters improve a fighting game other than fan service. This is a fighting game, fighting styles do make a difference. More unique character definitely improves the game as a whole. To say that these variations make no difference is ridiculous.


Ike had popularity before Smash. Marth had popularity before Smash. Smash was not used to help them.
Why add some not as popular character for some arbitary reason such as "to boost popularity"? That's not how Smash works. I don't want to add characters just to boost popularity. I'm trying to assure you that if a new character was added people were not going to look back and say "Nobody likes this guy and nobody uses him, they should have gone with Roy". You may think it is because of Roy, but that was a different situation entirely. Roy was added as a clone for promotion of his upcoming game and because he was a character Sakurai was sure would become popular. He also stood out from the other options (which at the time were among Alm, Sigurd, Seliph, and Leif) given that unlike them, he had a fire sword.
None of the reasonable options have the same deal going for them. The only one who comes close is Chrom, as he is a popular Smash candidate like Lyn and Ike were for Brawl. However, he doesn't really stand out.
Aside from that, the Smash community honestly has more voice than any other community, given that they are the target demographic.

So your saying that other candidates don't have
- The ability to promote their game or upcoming games
- Sakurai's favor (how could you possibly know his opinion on these other characters?)
- The characteristics to stand out from the rest.

You might have me in a bind for the first one if you consider promoting an upcoming game the only valid option. IS might be a long way from making another game the fact is that we can't know. But these characters could be making an appearance. Like I mentioned we can't get into sakurai's mind, so who knows, maybe one of these other characters is his new Roy.
Also, saying Roy is the only one who stands out doesn't seem like a fair assessment to me.


This does not mean we cannot get Marth, Roy, Ike, AND a new character such as Chrom. It may not be the type of food the kid in you wants to eat, but it's the food that is on the menu going by strict logic and reasoning.

You're right. But I don't care about this scenario. There's a chance that we will get three spots. If that's the case one of those characters has to be given a lower priority and therefore knocked off the list.

Be that as it may, the same arguments I'm giving to Roy apply to Ike as well.

k.

You have no way in knowing that a character a minority of fans care about will suddenly be more popular than "somebody like Roy" if they become playable in Smash to make such a guarantee. I guaranteed they would have a fanbase not that they would be more popular. But I wanted to emphasis that there's a possibility that they will become more popular. In fact, that wording, "someone like Roy" is heavily implying negativity towards Roy himself, showing biased thoughts which will cloud judgment.

Not really. Roy is the main topic here but his criticisms aren't exclusive to him. So I said somebody like Roy. Again focus on the points I make, not my writing style. This is an argument about the character roster not a battle between us.


I'm pretty sure that other main characters can hold their own unless they weren't as popular to begin with. You can't really blame Smash for Ike being more popular than Ephriam for example, because Ike was already much more popular than him prior to being in Smash.
Likewise, Micaiah is a rather notable character in the series (especially in Japan), and she was never in Smash. Same with Hector, who's arguably more popular than Lyn, who DID appear in Smash in a physical form. And both are much more notable and popular than Eliwood, which is rather ironic when you think about how one would think Eliwood would be more popular, being Roy's father and all...
And let's not forget Chrom and Lucina, who are making themselves out as popular and notable major characters worldwide.

okay.

Actually, IS has said nothing in regards to a mascot. Marth is merely seen as one to the fanbase. Although, Japan has also referred to Anna as the mascot, given her appearance in every title of the series except Gaiden.
While it's very likely Marth is not going anywhere, bear in mind that he wasn't added because of "mascot status". He was the most requested Fire Emblem character and overall one of the most requested characters in Japan in general for Melee.

I've seen many people say hes like the face of the series. But If you really don't like the idea of him being a mascot I can change the wording.
Hes the.. reoccurring, frequently praised, pioneer of the series guy. Either way that means hes not getting removed.

Lol, what? Melee's early bird promotion for Roy had nothing to do with Japan's perception of his character in his own game nor the characterization in the manga that doesn't even star him. What kind of logic is THAT? If he had not been in Melee, all thatwould still be there. It's not like none of it would exist; his game was in development before he was even ADDED to Melee.

Nothing to do with? Japan's perception is unwavering and cannot be influenced? So opposed to when the west got the game Japan looked at Roy and said "I'm not sure about this guy, lets not make any hasty judgments until we see the game".
This is basic, if you want to like something there's not much that's going to stop you from liking it. Same goes for hating something.


This is a horrible way to go by. By this logic, we shouldn't have HALF of Smash's characters despite their popularity because someone else could be popular. Why have Captain Falcon when we can have Mach Rider, right?

That quote is supposed to be in the context of a FE argument. The series is popular and that gives it reason to be in smashbros. The characters, who change very frequently, should be considered through a number of factors.
Besides didn't you say that sakurai picked roy because he thought he would be popular?

Marth and Ike are not comparable in Brawl due to their contrasting styles of fighting.
Roy was only similar to Marth in Melee because he had to or he wouldn't be a clone. Notably, his fighting style does not match Marth in his home game and in Awakening. Also, his sword is a fire sword.
Chrom has a lance that can be used instead of a sword for some attacks, and wields a shield that can be used for direct assault, something not done in Smash by anyone yet. Also, he has the potential to have a partner style of fighting with either Lucina or the Tactician to represent the tag system it has.

All four of these characters would be variant, reasonable, and cover all bases.

I bet you could add a dozen different movesets for those characters. Just like I could add a dozen movesets for any other character. Its likely that Roy is not going to drastically change from his melee self. Also Chrom will likely appear as he does in every cutscene and advisement, in his Lord outfit without a shield. The pairing idea seems far fetched. It fits ice climber's cartoon-ish style but not so much FE's (I suppose that is just my opinion though). Chrom could just as easily adopt ike's moveset.
What matters is what their fighting style probably will be, not what it can be.


EDIT: Smashboards keeps effing up my quotes, making it quote paragraphs seperately automatically no matter what I do.

I don't want to drag this on too much. I'll give you one more response for the sake of not taking over the thread and not making the argument bigger.

Also I know this response is a little late. I didn't have time to get on the forums. Its late and now I need to get some sleep...

 

[FalKoopa]

Gingerbread Man did make some valid points. Anyway both should just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

So we can mod the game and make the inevitable trash character broken as hell?

Roy was literally a Trash character in SSBM too!

 

[Diddy Kong]

So we can mod the game and make the inevitable trash character broken as hell?

No. As Ike's moveset itself has a LOT of potential. Any proffessional Smasher sees this. They just excecuted it pretty poorly in regualar Brawl, but in Project M there are a lot of Ike players. Just look how he's easily handling Marth, who's back to being as good as his Melee self. Ike is a character I'd be really really pissed of from to see cut. As he still remains to be my favorite FE Lord after all these years.

 

[FalKoopa]

Why all this mud flinging?

Both Roy and Ike are good, I tell you.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

No. As Ike's moveset itself has a LOT of potential. Any proffessional Smasher sees this. They just excecuted it pretty poorly in regualar Brawl, but in Project M there are a lot of Ike players. Just look how he's easily handling Marth, who's back to being as good as his Melee self. Ike is a character I'd be really really pissed of from to see cut. As he still remains to be my favorite FE Lord after all these years.

I've been an Ike fan since I played Path of Radiance back in 2005, back then the only Fire Emblem game I've played was Fire Emblem 7 for the GBA, and I had the Idea that Eliwood was Roy and they had to change his name for translation purposes, and when I saw Ike for the first time I thought Ike was Marth....Ike only won me at one moment in his game, when he promoted into the Lord Class, he was like the most badass character there is....

Look at that goodness:

Note: You've just been "Ike" attacked.

 

[FalKoopa]

His Path of Radiance self is cooler.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

His Path of Radiance self is cooler.

For each their opinion ....But the thing is I hate his Ranger outfit, I really hate the Blue and Red mix seems too generic...

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't really prefer any Ike class, they all have their charm in a way. The PoR criticals looked a bit cooler I felt, but prefer the overall look of Radiant Dawn-steroid infused-Ike. Best thing ever would be Hero RD Ike with the hair of PoR Ike. Cause even Chrom said Ike's hair looks legendary lol

And yeah, both Ike and Roy are cool. But if it had to get down to choosing one for a 3rd rep, Ike would definitely be my pick. And I wouldn't expect Roy getting in over Ike either way.

 

[FalKoopa]

Wallace from FE7 has the most legendary hair, don't you agree?

 

[Diddy Kong]

He might. Or might've had. We will never know.

Also, the reason why Soren >> Micaiah:

 

[Croph]

Hawt. I wouldn't mind if Ike borrows some of these ideas for his appearance.

But if we are talking about legendary hair, we cannot forget about this beautiful lady:

 

[Diddy Kong]

I always make Ellincia kill that dude. God, how he creeps me out...

 

[FalKoopa]

But if we are talking about legendary hair, we cannot forget about this beautiful lady:

He reminds me of Newton.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I STILL don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that they include both Roy and Chrom. Even if one makes it into the game originally, and they add DLC characters later on, releasing the other one that isn't already in the game.

A man can dreamI suppose...

 

[Frostwraith]

Hawt. I wouldn't mind if Ike borrows some of these ideas for his appearance.

But if we are talking about legendary hair, we cannot forget about this beautiful lady:

Loved killing that son of a ***** with Fiona. Yes, WITH FIONA! Most humiliating death ever.

I always make Ellincia kill that dude. God, how he creeps me out...

Ikr. I heard that in Awakening there's a guy just like him but even creepier, so it makes me think if this is a new archetype in FE: villainous sissy dudes who look like ladies.

What could the guys at IntSys be smoking?

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

He might. Or might've had. We will never know.

Also, the reason why Soren >> Micaiah:

Well Micaiah was a main character, suck on that Soren

Maybe we should just have a duo branded team. Micaiah and Soren, like the Ice Climbers.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Soren being the rightful king of Daein was one of my favorite plottwists in RD though. Imkinda wished Soren would've also used Dark Magic though. It would suit him very well.

 

[Mr. Johan]

I see all those Ike pictures, and I'm reminded of Ike's DLC artwork.

Wouldn't mind seeing the costume in Smash 4 if Ike is back in, though the PoR facial features would need to stay.


I doubt he'll be back in though. Chrom is the current face of the franchise similar to how Ike was during Brawl's development, so Chrom will likely take his spot. Awakening's list of Marth references ensured that he's not far from anyone's thoughts when it comes to FE, so Marth could keep his own spot. If a third FE character is needed...I think the Avatar will be that third rep. Fire Emblem has had the Avatar feature for the past two games now - the original Mystery of the Emblem game didn't use one while FE12 did - so the Avatar feature could become a franchise mainstay. Having the Avatar in Smash 4 could represent the series' newest change. Just have alternate costumes that allow the player to use the male and female Robins, and it could work. Being a dual-weilder of swords and tomes in his/her Tactician and Grandmaster classes is also a nifty little feature that could be utilized.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I wouldn't half mind that design if Ike wasn't so damn skinny. He needs to be BUFF. Like, being able to arm wrestle Bowser.

And damn, would I miss Ike if he was cut. I'm. It expecting it, cause he's being put in the spotlight quite a bit even in FE13. And I have a difficult time seeing Chrom going with Ike's style honestly. It would be a big loss to cut Ike imo. And I'd be pissed if he's cut.

 

[FalKoopa]

And damn, would I miss Ike if he was cut. I'm. It expecting it, cause he's being put in the spotlight quite a bit even in FE13. And I have a difficult time seeing Chrom going with Ike's style honestly. It would be a big loss to cut Ike imo. And I'd be pissed if he's cut.

Agreed. Ike should remain. I haven't played his games but was instantly attracted to him because of his moveset. Here's to hoping.

 

[Bowserlick]

Since Ike uses one hand to hold a two-handed, heavy sword he should look more like this.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Wow that's terrible...

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

If Ike stays, he would probably be Radiant Dawn

 

[Diddy Kong]

Vanguard General Ikey-poo would definitely fit the heavywright archetype the best.

 

[Deleted member]

I see all those Ike pictures, and I'm reminded of Ike's DLC artwork.

Wouldn't mind seeing the costume in Smash 4 if Ike is back in, though the PoR facial features would need to stay.


I doubt he'll be back in though. Chrom is the current face of the franchise similar to how Ike was during Brawl's development, so Chrom will likely take his spot. Awakening's list of Marth references ensured that he's not far from anyone's thoughts when it comes to FE, so Marth could keep his own spot. If a third FE character is needed...I think the Avatar will be that third rep. Fire Emblem has had the Avatar feature for the past two games now - the original Mystery of the Emblem game didn't use one while FE12 did - so the Avatar feature could become a franchise mainstay. Having the Avatar in Smash 4 could represent the series' newest change. Just have alternate costumes that allow the player to use the male and female Robins, and it could work. Being a dual-weilder of swords and tomes in his/her Tactician and Grandmaster classes is also a nifty little feature that could be utilized.

That design is awful. Radiant Dawn's design instead please.

I doubt Ike is going anywhere. Ike was incredibly popular in Brawl and he was the star of two FE games. Plus people despise cuts and there isn't any reason to replace him with Chrom just because Chrom is new.

My hope is that the off-chance DLC occurs and we get Marth, Ike, Roy and Chrom.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Yeah I'd rather everyone stay with the design they're none for. Some of those awakening drawings are very questionable...

 

[FlareHabanero]

Ike's new design looks like he replaced his arm with a sword.

Some of those awakening drawings are very questionable...

It's because of the inconsistent artists that worked on the varies DLC characters like Marth, Roy, Leif, Ike, Lyn etc.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am still most bothered that he's like, half the weight what he should be...

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Am still most bothered that he's like, half the weight what he should be...

Did my best to give him muscle mass, and I fixed the face too..

 

[Frostwraith]

All DLC artwork was made by guest artists, one artist per character, except Katarina who was redesigned by Yusuke Kozaki, the main designer for Awakening.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Wow if Ike actually looked like that :D.