You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Read the rule a little harder, Roy,Ike and Marth has official threads made by mods on the Veteran Characters sections, you can talk about them there....it's not a stupid rule, talking about cuts causes a big fuss in the thread...

In this thread we will give other characters the limelight for they are overshadowed by the big 3, I really want you to talk more about other characters, even if you think a small character has chance go ahead and support him, when you suggest a new character, it would be preferred if you put a biography of that character.

 

[Opossum]

That's it. This is now a Lissa thread. Because I've only played the demo for Awakening and she is the most recognizable other than Lucina not on the "banned list." I couldn't type that with a straight face...

In other news, I'm definitely getting Awakening on the 22nd. Huzzah, my first FE game.

 

[Frostwraith]

Nah, let's rename this the Henry thread. Everyone loves Henry.

Nah, it needs more Gheb.

 

[Opossum]

So anywho, since I haven't played Roy's game yet, I am in unfamiliar territory. Any Final Smash ideas for him? Any special powers that the Sword of Seals offers?

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Guys, I went to the Veteran section thread, and found that these thread were a barren, so I don't want this thread to take away valuable discussions from other threads, after all if Ike,Roy and Marth has their own threads, then it would wiser to disucss newcomers here.

 

[Frostwraith]

Guys, I went to the Veteran section thread, and found that these thread were a barren, so I don't want this thread to take away valuable discussions from other threads, after all if Ike,Roy and Marth has their own threads, then it would wiser to disucss newcomers here.

Have you hidden your moderator tag below your avatar?

 

[Opossum]

No one really posts much in the veteran section regardless of this thread's existence. If anything, removing the discussion of veterans in a Fire Emblem discussion is only doing a disservice.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Guys, I went to the Veteran section thread, and found that these thread were a barren, so I don't want this thread to take away valuable discussions from other threads, after all if Ike,Roy and Marth has their own threads, then it would wiser to disucss newcomers here.

Here is where the logic has a problem.

We can't rationally talk about newcomers if we can't decide who's returning can we?

 

[Frostwraith]

Here is where the logic has a problem.

We can't rationally talk about newcomers if we can't decide who's returning can we?

Exactly. In series like Fire Emblem, both veterans and newcomers must be considered, especially when we know that FE doesn't get much characters in Smash, so the choices are kind of hard to make.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Ok, because of the disagreement that this new rule caused, I will put it under vote....

You can vote:

If you want this rule to stay: Reply with "Yes"

If you don't want this rule to stay: Reply with "No"

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ok, because of the disagreement that this new rule caused, I will put it under vote....

You can vote:

If you want this rule to stay: Reply with "Yes"

If you don't want this rule to stay: Reply with "No"

once we reach 10 votes maximum.

Get rid of the rule.

 

[Opossum]

Voting's pointless when everyone is just gonna say no...

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

let's just vote and see....

 

[Deleted member]

Even if a swarm of "no"s come in, you don't seem the type that would go on your word.
Aside from that, you can't really enforce it, can you?

I vote no by the way, despite how pointless it is.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Cast your votes people. Let's get this over with.

@Golden

That's a bit harsh don't you think?

 

[Frostwraith]

I'll play along... and say no.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Well I don't want to enforce anything anymore, just vote and the winners will get their wish...I will even take the rule down for now until we finish the vote, it's actually my bad that I put the rule before the vote.

 

[Croph]

Sorry to interrupt, but this handsome devil needs to be addressed: Oliver!

Oliver is the champion of beauty. More over Princess Peach, Zelda, and Martha cuz this bad boy is the prettiest princess of them all! Oliver is a boss in Path of Radiance, but a playable character in Radiant Dawn. So I think his chances are pretty good. Plus he has the sickest theme.

[collapse=A certain someone we can't talk about]

So anywho, since I haven't played Roy's game yet, I am in unfamiliar territory. Any Final Smash ideas for him? Any special powers that the Sword of Seals offers?

I was thinking that Roy would unleash a giant dragon shaped flame that engulfs the stage... scorching all unfortunate people in it's way.

Spoiler

Cuz y'know Roy is part dragon and freaking dragons = fire = destruction = whatevers

But I won't say this cuz y'know, the rules. whoa this collapsing quote layout looks pretty werid[/collapse]

But to answer your question, I vote no, please.

 

[colder_than_ice]

I vote no.

 

[Frostwraith]

Sorry to interrupt, but this handsome devil needs to be addressed: Oliver!

Oliver is the champion of beauty. More over Princess Peach, Zelda, and Martha cuz this bad boy is the prettiest princess of them all! Oliver is a boss in Path of Radiance, but a playable character in Radiant Dawn. So I think his chances are pretty good. Plus he has the sickest theme.

[collapse=A certain someone we can't talk about]
I was thinking that Roy would unleash a giant dragon shaped flame that engulfs the stage... scorching all unfortunate people in it's way.

Spoiler

Cuz y'know Roy is part dragon and freaking dragons = fire = destruction = whatevers

But I won't say this cuz y'know, the rules. whoa this collapsing quote layout looks pretty werid[/collapse]

But to answer your question, I vote no, please.

Oliver's dashing beauty is simply overwhelming, even for me! His theme was already in Brawl and SHOULD RETURN.

Roy unleashing dragons and engulfing the stage in fire, eh? Sounds like our boy, right? Would be one hell of a Final Smash!

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

OK it's sealed by majority,the rule is gone, we got 6 "No"...and it's out of 10.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

@Gingy:

Here is why this analogy doesn’t work:

It is making MANY assumptions.

The obvious is that it is saying that the kid (Roy fans) absolutely refuses to try something new. This is not true. Most sensible Roy fans are willing to try a newer character, but as long as they get Roy along with them. So in reality, the kid will be ok with trying the new food, as long as he gets the food he likes with it.

The general consensus is that we're only getting 3 characters. If not that than 4. If you think 5 then your being extremely impractical. If there's at least two different FE characters that I think would improve the game more than Roy then Roy has a reason to be removed. When people are faced with this choice they refuse to give up what they have/had. Its easier to say the more the merrier, but that's not the case. There's a cap here. Just as the kid would get full after eating a certain amount so will smashbros.

Another assumption that is being made is that the kid (Roy fans) will like whatever they are given. So pretty much, you are saying that Roy fans will WITHOUT A DOUBT like someone like Lyn, Micaiah, Chrom, etc., which is stupid in itself, because that is implying that the Roy fans automatically liked Ike no matter what because he was in Brawl. You have no way of knowing what they think or even what the MAJORITY thinks. There are people on both ends of the spectrum; Roy fans who liked Ike, and Roy fans who didn’t like Ike.

Lets be honest here. You would have to try pretty damn hard to add a character from FE that people wont like. As long as the character isn't laughable I do guarantee that new character will have a fanbase and with FE's style, probably a large one. The kid in the analogy isn't just Roy fans, its the smash community as a whole.

A 3rd assumption is that there is absolutely no way to give the kid both foods. Why must the kid sacrifice what he likes just to try something new? Given that the plan for Brawl called for both Ike’s addition as well as Roy’s return, why can’t Roy return along with a new character for Smash 4?

Covered this in my first response, the kid's stomach is about the size of my fist and the next meal will be the next game.


Yet another assumption is that this only affects one kid. Why is the OTHER kid (Ike fans) exempt from this? Ike has just as much problems as Roy when it comes to being outdated, and even has potential replacement options in both Chrom and Priam, who have their similarities to him.

Sorry, I never specified that the analogy isn't just Roy fans. That part was unclear. I also never said that Ike should return either.



You have no way in knowing this whatsoever. I have no way of knowing what? I'm a bit confused what you're referring to. Aside from that, it is making the assumption that only Fire Emblem characters playable in Smash Bros. become popular. And yet, prior to Brawl, Lyn and Ike were mad popular characters to include to Smash in the West (at such a point their fanbases were AT WAR with each other). Neither one had been in Smash at that point, yet they obtained popularity. And now we have the likes of Chrom and Lucina with their popularity. Neither have been in Smash.

I never said that FE characters couldn't become popular alone. What I meant was that being in smashbros made characters vastly more popular than what they would be without it. Comparing the popularity Roy, Ike, or Marth to somebody who hasn't been in it skews the results vastly in the smash veteran's favor.
Logically if you're exposed to a larger audience you will have more fans. If two out of three people like a performance, then more people are going to like it if you have 500 watching rather than 10. keep in mind truly exposing a character is not the same as simply knowing who they are. I don't really care for the movie Django. I know what it is but I've never seen it.

Not to mention that being in smashbros doesn't just show off the same character to everyone. You get to see the character in an new setting. Seeing Roy battle three other players after (well in this case before) impaling an archer definitely more exciting than watching him just impale an archer.
I'm not sure I worded that last part the best I could. Don't give too much attention.

And then we get to the big man himself, Marth. He wasn’t popular because he was in Smash. He was in Smash because he was popular. Though there is the fact that he gained popularity in the West through Smash because well, NONE OF HIS GAMES HAD COME OUT IN THE WEST. So if Roy’s “popularity” here is shallow, so is Marth’s. The only reason people in the West cared about him was because he was in Melee. And even when Marth’s first game was remade for the DS and released in the West, it was not as popular as the previous Tellius games.

Marth as I said before is the "pikachu of FE". IS considers him the FE mascot. That lets you be the exception. Marth isn't my favorite character but hes not leaving.

And while Roy did gain popularity through his debut in Smash, it is a moot point. Why? Because he literally debuted in Smash. He could not have gained the popularity to be in Smash prior to his addition because he didn’t exist yet. This is also not the only reason he was popular; he in general is one of the more popular Lords in Japan due to his character within his home game, as well as his portrayal in the Fire Emblem: Hasha no Tsurugi manga. Both of these would have still contributed heavily to Roy’s popularity within Japan regardless of him being in Melee or not. The only difference would be that the West would not know of him that well to care. But then again, they didn’t care much about Marth either.

I'm not against Roy being in melee. I'm against him being in the upcoming game that is over 10 years later. Japans not excluded from being influenced by smashbrothers. That manga and even his own game was promoted by melee.

My main point I'm trying to get across is that this popularity shouldn't trump other characters because they have the potential to be just as popular. This doesn't mean guess how popular they will be after SSB4. It means look for other factors.
Like if their fighting style will contribute. 4 sword users doesn't exactly scream variance to me. So I'll keep saying what I wanted to promote.
ADD A FREAKIN MAGIC USER GODDAMNT

Man you type a lot. d:
My response is in blue, hope I didn't butcher those sentences beyond comprehension.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Also is anyone having trouble loading pages on smashboards? I keep timing out but other websites work just fine.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Also is anyone having trouble loading pages on smashboards? I keep timing out but other websites work just fine.

Nope, Smashboards works fine here.


Edit:
aslong we are on the topic of Roy's Final Smash, I would suggest an improved Eruption,


Where he sticks his sword on the ground and burst into flame, it will just like Pikachu 's thunder, where anyone above him will be damaged.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Nope, Smashboards works fine here.

Dang it.

Well I'll figure out whats doing it eventually.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Dang it.

Well I'll figure out whats doing it eventually.

check the proxy...

 

[FalKoopa]

Late to the party, but what was the new rule?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Late to the party, but what was the new rule?

For a while we were unable to include Marth, Ike and Roy in our discussions turning this into another Chrom thread.

 

[Chidosengan]

For a while we were unable to include Marth, Ike and Roy in our discussions turning this into another Chrom thread.

But.... It's a general fire emblem thread, isn't it?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

But.... It's a general fire emblem thread, isn't it?

Exactly. That was one of the main problems.

 

[Deleted member]

The general consensus is that we're only getting 3 characters. If not that than 4. If you think 5 then your being extremely impractical. If there's at least two different FE characters that I think would improve the game more than Roy then Roy has a reason to be removed. When people are faced with this choice they refuse to give up what they have/had. Its easier to say the more the merrier, but that's not the case. There's a cap here. Just as the kid would get full after eating a certain amount so will smashbros.

"General consensus" just means what the fanbase expects; it has no effect on what will actually happen. To use it in an argument doesn't help you, especially when it is "general consensus" that Roy returns. Though out of fairness, 3-4 characters is most reasonable given certain other conditions. However, this does not mean there will be 3-4 characters. Sakurai can just as easily decide that 2 characters are ideal when factoring the end result of Melee and Brawl, and simply have Marth and Chrom as the Alpha and Omega. We simply do not know at this point, and to act as though there is a definite course of action is pointless.

Also, think about what you are saying. "If there's at least two different FE characters that I think would improve the game more-". That is outright saying your opinion is how things should be. This is a flat out confirmation that because YOU think other characters would "improve the game more", then Roy should not come back. In reality, NONE of the available characters would "improve" Smash. Not Chrom, not Lyn, not Micaiah, not even Roy. All any of them would serve is fanservice, as all Smash really "needs" from Fire Emblem is Marth, the overall face of the series. It so happens that the fanbase wants Roy to return more than they want someone else to join the fray. Arbitrary fighting style differences don't mean anything in the long run.

Lets be honest here. You would have to try pretty damn hard to add a character from FE that people wont like. As long as the character isn't laughable I do guarantee that new character will have a fanbase and with FE's style, probably a large one. The kid in the analogy isn't just Roy fans, its the smash community as a whole.

Ike had popularity before Smash. Marth had popularity before Smash. Smash was not used to help them.
Why add some not as popular character for some arbitary reason such as "to boost popularity"? That's not how Smash works. You may think it is because of Roy, but that was a different situation entirely. Roy was added as a clone for promotion of his upcoming game and because he was a character Sakurai was sure would become popular. He also stood out from the other options (which at the time were among Alm, Sigurd, Seliph, and Leif) given that unlike them, he had a fire sword.
None of the reasonable options have the same deal going for them. The only one who comes close is Chrom, as he is a popular Smash candidate like Lyn and Ike were for Brawl. However, he doesn't really stand out.
Aside from that, the Smash community honestly has more voice than any other community, given that they are the target demographic.

Covered this in my first response, the kid's stomach is about the size of my fist and the next meal will be the next game.

This does not mean we cannot get Marth, Roy, Ike, AND a new character such as Chrom. It may not be the type of food the kid in you wants to eat, but it's the food that is on the menu going by strict logic and reasoning.

Sorry, I never specified that the analogy isn't just Roy fans. That part was unclear. I also never said that Ike should return either.

Be that as it may, the same arguments I'm giving to Roy apply to Ike as well.

I have no way of knowing what? I'm a bit confused what you're referring to

You have no way in knowing that a character a minority of fans care about will suddenly be more popular than "somebody like Roy" if they become playable in Smash to make such a guarantee. In fact, that wording, "someone like Roy" is heavily implying negativity towards Roy himself, showing biased thoughts which will cloud judgment.

I never said that FE characters couldn't become popular alone. What I meant was that being in smashbros made characters vastly more popular than what they would be without it. Comparing the popularity Roy, Ike, or Marth to somebody who hasn't been in it skews the results vastly in the smash veteran's favor.

Logically if you're exposed to a larger audience you will have more fans. If two out of three people like a performance, then more people are going to like it if you have 500 watching rather than 10. keep in mind truly exposing a character is not the same as simply knowing who they are. I don't really care for the movie Django. I know what it is but I've never seen it.

I'm pretty sure that other main characters can hold their own unless they weren't as popular to begin with. You can't really blame Smash for Ike being more popular than Ephriam for example, because Ike was already much more popular than him prior to being in Smash.
Likewise, Micaiah is a rather notable character in the series (especially in Japan), and she was never in Smash. Same with Hector, who's arguably more popular than Lyn, who DID appear in Smash in a physical form. And both are much more notable and popular than Eliwood, which is rather ironic when you think about how one would think Eliwood would be more popular, being Roy's father and all...
And let's not forget Chrom and Lucina, who are making themselves out as popular and notable major characters worldwide.

Marth as I said before is the "pikachu of FE". IS considers him the FE mascot. That lets you be the exception. Marth isn't my favorite character but hes not leaving.

Actually, IS has said nothing in regards to a mascot. Marth is merely seen as one to the fanbase. Although, Japan has also referred to Anna as the mascot, given her appearance in every title of the series except Gaiden.
While it's very likely Marth is not going anywhere, bear in mind that he wasn't added because of "mascot status". He was the most requested Fire Emblem character and overall one of the most requested characters in Japan in general for Melee.

I'm not against Roy being in melee. I'm against him being in the upcoming game that is over 10 years later. Japans not excluded from being influenced by smashbrothers. That manga and even his own game was promoted by melee.

Lol, what? Melee's early bird promotion for Roy had nothing to do with Japan's perception of his character in his own game nor the characterization in the manga that doesn't even star him. What kind of logic is THAT? If he had not been in Melee, all that would still be there. It's not like none of it would exist; his game was in development before he was even ADDED to Melee.

My main point I'm trying to get across is that this popularity shouldn't trump other characters because they have the potential to be just as popular. This doesn't mean guess how popular they will be after SSB4. It means look for other factors.

This is a horrible way to go by. By this logic, we shouldn't have HALF of Smash's characters despite their popularity because someone else could be popular. Why have Captain Falcon when we can have Mach Rider, right?

Like if their fighting style will contribute. 4 sword users doesn't exactly scream variance to me. So I'll keep saying what I wanted to promote

ADD A FREAKIN MAGIC USER GODDAMNT

Marth and Ike are not comparable in Brawl due to their contrasting styles of fighting.
Roy was only similar to Marth in Melee because he had to or he wouldn't be a clone. Notably, his fighting style does not match Marth in his home game and in Awakening. Also, his sword is a fire sword.
Chrom has a lance that can be used instead of a sword for some attacks, and wields a shield that can be used for direct assault, something not done in Smash by anyone yet. Also, he has the potential to have a partner style of fighting with either Lucina or the Tactician to represent the tag system it has.

All four of these characters would be variant, reasonable, and cover all bases.

EDIT: Smashboards keeps effing up my quotes, making it quote paragraphs seperately automatically no matter what I do.

 

[FalKoopa]

Huge walls of text, but nevertheless interesting to read.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

How about Sothe?

And when I found this picture on Google, I found another one a few rows done. It was random.

Maybe a team? XD

 

[N3ON]

OK it's sealed by majority,the rule is gone, we got 6 "No"...and it's out of 10.

Holy hell dude. This a FE thread, we can talk about anything that pertains to Fire Emblem. It's called the "Fire Emblem Discussion". You can give suggestions, but Mods give the rules, and we follow them, which is why "enforcing" your thread would effectively be just calling a mod in to see FE discussion... which is what the thread is about. We haven't broken any actual rules.

You don't see any other TC stomping around enforcing pointless rules and forcing arbitrary votes upon the visitors of the thread. Chill.

 

[Deleted member]

Good grief this thread.

THIS THREAD.

You'd think that since this isn't GameFAQs that we'd get more civilized discussion.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Good grief this thread.

THIS THREAD.

You'd think that since this isn't GameFAQs that we'd get more civilized discussion.

Pfft. What gave you that idea?

And very well thought out post Golden. I have a feeling I'll need more popcorn. Anyone want to share?

Also, what taunts would Roy and/or Chrom have?

 

[Oasis_S]

You don't see any other TC stomping around enforcing pointless rules and forcing arbitrary votes upon the visitors of the thread. Chill.

On the other hand if I could ban people for saying Ridley is too big in my thread, then life would really be more beautiful, y'know.

 

[Deleted member]

Pfft. What gave you that idea?

And very well thought out post Golden. I have a feeling I'll need more popcorn. Anyone want to share?

Also, what taunts would Roy and/or Chrom have?

Smashboards is supposed to be the best place to discuss Smash 4. Debacles like Ike-Sama temporarily "banning" veteran discussions should not be occurring.

I'll echo your sentiment that both Roy and Chrom should be added together along with Marth and Ike; making the wars pointless.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Smashboards is supposed to be the best place to discuss Smash 4. Debacles like Ike-Sama temporarily "banning" veteran discussions should not be occurring.

I'll echo your sentiment that both Roy and Chrom should be added together along with Marth and Ike; making the wars pointless.

Here here! On both accounts. But hey, we have to prepare for the storm coming after E3. This is good practice I suppose. Besides, I think Ike-Sama learned something today.

 

[Oasis_S]

Besides, I think Ike-Sama learned something today.

That is not possible.