You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[Swamp Sensei]

How about we just have
Marth
Ike
Roy
Chrom

Everyone wins. No one loses.

WE COOL PEOPLE?!?!? CAN WE STOP ARGUING OVER FIRE EMBLEM!?!!?!?

Ah. Who am I kidding, that will never happen....

 

[Deleted member]

The anology doesn't really work for a multitude of reasons.
Namely the fact that "trying something new" isn't the issue. We got both Chrom and Roy as potential candidates, and if Sakurai wants both, we're getting both.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

 

[Opossum]

I understand that. I've said this many times before so I'm going to use a metaphor.
A kid loves absolutely everything he eats. His mother wants him to try something but he wont because he never had it before. Instead he wants to stick with things hes already had. See whats wrong with this?

I guarantee that many new FE characters could become way more popular than somebody like Roy, if they actually got in the game. Its like great products not making as much money because they haven't been advertised.

Yes, but that would require the analogy to include taking away one of the kid's favorite foods. He may still eat the new food, but the void left from the old food is not filled.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

The anology doesn't really work for a multitude of reasons.
Namely the fact that "trying something new" isn't the issue. We got both Chrom and Roy as potential candidates, and if Sakurai wants both, we're getting both.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

Analogy does work, you never gave a real reason why it doesn't you just said it wasn't relevant. People want to say Roy should be added purely because of popularity. I say Roy's popularity is given to him by an opportunity other characters never had, so it should be considered less as a determining factor.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Yes, but that would require the analogy to include taking away one of the kid's favorite foods. He may still eat the new food, but the void left from the old food is not filled.

Correct, that's when we resort to logic and reasoning to decide if he would like the food. Also asking questions like...
Should we consider having a variety?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Analogy does work, you never gave a real reason why it doesn't you just said it wasn't relevant. People want to say Roy should be added purely because of popularity. I say Roy's popularity is given to him by an opportunity other characters never had, so it should be considered less as a determining factor.

Pikachu got popular because of the anime. We wouldn't dream of removing him. His popularity came from something other Nintendo series never had. By your logic, Pikachu's popularity isn't as valid?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Keep in mind that looking for something different shouldn't be discouraged. Sakurai is the type of guy that tries to look for something interesting whether it's cosmetics or move potential. It's a pretty logical motto to follow.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Pikachu got popular because of the anime. That any different?

Yeah it kind of is. Pokemon has soo many Pokemon that they (not sakurai) chose their own mascots. Pikachu is on a different level than other pokemon. FE's pikachu is Marth, who is not being replaced. While the rest of the FE lords are like the other 150 pokemon.

 

[N3ON]

The fact is that even if it might not be fair how it happened, Roy has the most popularity of any FE character not in Brawl. If Sakurai wants to go the "popularity" route, he will go with Roy, no matter how Roy's popularity came to be. If he wants to go with the "recent" (I think relevant is a bit of a misnomer) route, he will likely go with Chrom. The chance of both is unlikely, but IMO not impossible. Anybody else's chance is very very small (not counting Marth and Ike ofc). We can argue over whether we think Roy's popularity is deserved, but no matter where it may stem from we can't argue that he has it, and he had it when Sakurai was likely choosing the characters, and we can't do anything about that now.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I hope Roy never gets back, he is a perfect excuse for a clone....and the people hoping that Roy would have a unique moveset, till now most of the clones are luigified none of them became unique, what makes you think Sakurai will go out of his way and make new moveset for Roy, when he infact can add a new character to SSB4 and give that character the new moveset, I'm pretty sure that SSB4 will have Roy as a an alternate costume for Marth nothing more.

 

[Croph]

I just wanted to thank to the people bringing up valid points to defend Roy a couple pages back. My knowledge in FE is limited. I wish I could help...but I don't think I could be of much use...and I'm kinda pooped right now haha...

I am a very avid fan of the series, and I hate it when elitist types come in and say, "Roy is bad and you should feel bad for liking him. Don't you know Roy sucks and his game sucks. Because he sucks in his game, you should rethink liking him."

It breaks my heart when people say this. It really does. I like Roy for who he is in FE6 AND Melee. And it's totally fine to like a character for who they are in the Smash series. The Smash world is a different universe. In this world, the most crappy fighters can turn into the most iconic and fan favourite fighters. If people cannot understand or respect me (and others) for liking Roy, then I guess I don't know what to do.

Chrono, you've mentioned before that Roy promoting perhaps wasn't part of the initial plan. Do you think the fact that Roy doesn't change aesthetically upon promoting supports this?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I hope Roy never gets back, he is a perfect excuse for a clone....and the people hoping that Roy would have a unique moveset, till now most of the clones are luigified none of them became unique, what makes you think Sakurai will go out of his way and make new moveset for Roy, when he infact can add a new character to SSB4 and give that character the new moveset, I'm pretty sure that SSB4 will have Roy as a an alternate costume for Marth nothing more.

Because he already started to. Ike's neutral B was originally going to be Roy's while Ike's was originally going to be Ragnell's ranged attack.

 

[FalKoopa]

I hope Roy never gets back, he is a perfect excuse for a clone....and the people hoping that Roy would have a unique moveset, till now most of the clones are luigified none of them became unique, what makes you think Sakurai will go out of his way and make new moveset for Roy, when he infact can add a new character to SSB4 and give that character the new moveset, I'm pretty sure that SSB4 will have Roy as a an alternate costume for Marth nothing more.

Someone sure is grumpy.

 

[Deleted member]

Analogy does work, you never gave a real reason why it doesn't you just said it wasn't relevant. People want to say Roy should be added purely because of popularity. I say Roy's popularity is given to him by an opportunity other characters never had, so it should be considered less as a determining factor.

I can either give the whole list and waste my time and your time with an inevitable argument that will ultimately end up in flames, but I'm not really in the mood for such an argument at this point in time.

Just know that the analogy does not work and comes off as intolerant.

Aside from that, the opposing side of your argument about opportunity, why should characters be added solely because they didn't have the opportunity to be popular in Smash? Marth didn't need Smash to be popular; he was in Smash because of his popularity (being among the most requested character in Japan in the pre-Melee poll). Ike didn't need Smash to be popular; he was already a classic within the West, something characters before him didn't manage. And it's likely Roy would have still been popular within Japan if he wasn't in Melee, given that they like his character in his home game and because of the manga based off of said game.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Someone sure is grumpy.

I don't think he likes his logic being ripped apart.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

The fact is that even if it might not be fair how it happened, Roy has the most popularity of any FE character not in Brawl. If Sakurai wants to go the "popularity" route, he will go with Roy, no matter how Roy's popularity came to be. If he wants to go with the "recent" (I think relevant is a bit of a misnomer) route, he will likely go with Chrom. The chance of both is unlikely, but IMO not impossible. Anybody else's chance is very very small (not counting Marth and Ike ofc). We can argue over whether we think Roy's popularity is deserved, but no matter where it may stem from we can't argue that he has it, and he had it when Sakurai was likely choosing the characters, and we can't do anything about that now.

I can agree with that. In the end it only matters how Sakurai see it.

But hey, I can at least hope. d:

 

[N3ON]

I hope Roy never gets back, he is a perfect excuse for a clone....and the people hoping that Roy would have a unique moveset, till now most of the clones are luigified none of them became unique, what makes you think Sakurai will go out of his way and make new moveset for Roy, when he infact can add a new character to SSB4 and give that character the new moveset, I'm pretty sure that SSB4 will have Roy as a an alternate costume for Marth nothing more.

I don't see any of us saying Roy would definitely be unique if he returned. Sure, it'd be nice, but obviously chances are he'd be a semi-clone. Contrary to belief, that in no way is a detriment to his chances though, semi-clones are easier to implement and tend to be chosen by Sakurai to pad the roster when time is an issue. If Sakurai can include the second-most popular character in Japan with less effort than an original character, that would hardly be seen as a negative in his mind. Of course, Roy could also have a unique moveset, but yeah, he probably won't.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Because he already started to. Ike's neutral B was originally going to be Roy's while Ike's was originally going to be Ragnell's ranged attack.

Well did you forget the fact that Marth neutral is different in SSBB than it's in SSBM ? even though I still don't believe that Sakurai removed Roy for time constrains, but still even if he "existed" at some point in the development cycle, Roy was never going to have a special moveset, I bet he was getting luigified like all the other clones, which totally not enough, I'd rather have a completely unique character over Roy anyday...

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Because he already started to. Ike's neutral B was originally going to be Roy's while Ike's was originally going to be Ragnell's ranged attack.

Well did you forget the fact that Marth neutral is different in SSBB than it's in SSBM ? even though I still don't believe that Sakurai removed Roy for time constrains, but still even if he "existed" at some point in the development cycle, Roy was never going to have a special moveset, I bet he was getting luigified like all the other clones, which totally not enough, I'd rather have a completely unique character over Roy anyday...

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I can either give the whole list and waste my time and your time with an inevitable argument that will ultimately end up in flames, but I'm not really in the mood for such an argument at this point in time.
Just know that the analogy does not work and comes off as intolerant.

I'm going to stop you right there.

Refusing to address something and simply saying that is wrong is a terrible way to argue. I respect everyone and their opinion on these forums (I'm not mad guys, I'm just happy I get to speak my mind) but that's a great way to lose credibility.

Why should I even begin to pick apart what you have to say when you simply ignore what I have to say?

I don't think he likes his logic being ripped apart.

I'd like it if you'd point out where my logic was ripped apart, please.

 

[FalKoopa]

Well did you forget the fact that Marth neutral is different in SSBB than it's in SSBM ? even though I still don't believe that Sakurai removed Roy for time constrains, but still even if he "existed" at some point in the development cycle, Roy was never going to have a special moveset, I bet he was getting luigified like all the other clones, which totally not enough, I'd rather have a completely unique character over Roy anyday...

No quarters for haters.

 

[ChronoBound]

Chrono, you've mentioned before that Roy promoting perhaps wasn't part of the initial plan. Do you think the fact that Roy doesn't change aesthetically upon promoting supports this?

Yes I do.

 

[Opossum]

I hope Roy never gets back, he is a perfect excuse for a clone....and the people hoping that Roy would have a unique moveset, till now most of the clones are luigified none of them became unique, what makes you think Sakurai will go out of his way and make new moveset for Roy, when he infact can add a new character to SSB4 and give that character the new moveset, I'm pretty sure that SSB4 will have Roy as a an alternate costume for Marth nothing more.

'
This pretty much goes to show that anything you have against Roy is out of pure bias. I, for one, don't have many problems with clones, and definitely not with Luigified ones. Lots of others would agree. Being a clone isn't necessarily a bad thing, as some claim it to be. I'm fully expecting that if he comes back, it will be the Melee incarnation, that way I'd be even happier if he were to be made more unique.

All in all, clone or not, people just want Roy. He's our boy, after all.

 

[•Col•]

Actually man, what really tips me off, is the fact some of the fans putting Roy over Ike, which is obvious nonesense, and BTW Chrom is even over Ike and I admit it, and here you find people spewing that Chrom isn't even a contender....

ORLY????

Your own list:

Most likely candidates for a seat in SSB4 roster: (from the most likely, to the least likely).

1. Marth: he is the protagonist, he is the face of Fire Emblem (enough said)
2. Ike: to Marth, Ike is the other side of the coin.
3. Chrom: He is the newest lord, and if we are going with patterns, he is more likely than a lot of the cast, he is the most popular male character in Awakening.
4. Lyn: She was introduced as an assist trophy in the SSBB, (everyone should know that assist trophies are made for characters who couldn't make it in but were an option)
5. Lucina: Even though she looks like a gender swap version of Marth, she is still too relevant to the story, and she could make it as a clone to Marth or as a costume. She is the most popular female character in Awakening.
6. Avatar/Tactician/Robin: it's unique character, very versatile, Sakurai can have his freedom with him and on the + side he can use magic and maybe he can use Einherjar to summon heroes of Fire emblem as a final smash maybe or like Pokemon Trainer.
7. Roy: As so many claim Roy was planned for SSBB, but he was cut for no apparent reason, Roy as a character have nothing going for except being SSBM and being the most popular Lord among the GBA games (although it's a known fact that japan loved Roy before they even played Fire Emblem, and BTW Fire Emblem Sword of Seals sold so much because of Roy being in SSBM, which furthermore support the Idea of him being in SSBM for the sake of advertisement and no more than that.), the only chance Roy has if Sakurai made a new set of characters and called them instead of veterans "The Redeemed characters", and if he done that MewTwo has a better chance of joining because he is featured in the new movie to.
8. Priam/Paris: Descendant of Ike, he has a chance as a costume but if he actually became the protagonist of the next Fire Emblem, than he will have a really good chance.
9. The Protagonist of the next Fire Emblem: It worked with Roy, and it's a really good business move.

LOL dat salt and extreme bias, twisting own words trying to trick people into getting on your side.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'd like it if you'd point out where my logic was ripped apart, please.

I was referring to Ike-Sama. Not you.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

No quarters for haters.

Fire Emblem Sword of Seals is my favorite GBA game,Roy is my main in Melee, even though he was crappy in the game I always liked him, He was once my favorite Lord....but I'm here thinking with my mind, which is a better way to think, feelings aside.

 

[N3ON]

Well did you forget the fact that Marth neutral is different in SSBB than it's in SSBM ? even though I still don't believe that Sakurai removed Roy for time constrains, but still even if he "existed" at some point in the development cycle, Roy was never going to have a special moveset, I bet he was getting luigified like all the other clones, which totally not enough, I'd rather have a completely unique character over Roy anyday...

Not enough for what? For you to accept? To be included? It might come as a shock, but a semi-cloned moveset was totally enough for Luigi, Falco, and Ganondorf to return (and Roy and Doc planned to return) in subsequent games, and for Lucas and Toon Link to be added (I'm not touching Wolf - don't want to start that discussion) - as well as whatever new Forbidden 7 characters would inevitably have been semi-clones. Sakurai obviously thinks being a semi-clone is no reason to be excluded.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I was referring to Ike-Sama. Not you.

Oh, my bad. These threads can get confusing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Fire Emblem Sword of Seals is my favorite GBA game,Roy is my main in Melee, even though he was crappy in the game I always liked him, He was once my favorite Lord....but I'm here thinking with my mind, which is a better way to think, feelings aside.

Popularity isn't guided by logic. It's guided by feelings. You should know that much.

And no problem Gingerbread!

 

[Croph]

Yes I do.

Yeah, I thought it was weird that Roy doesn't change his looks (besides becoming left handed iirc)...I guess I was a bit disappointed with that.

Man, this thread is heating up...

 

[Opossum]

Fire Emblem Sword of Seals is my favorite GBA game,Roy is my main in Melee, even though he was crappy in the game I always liked him, He was once my favorite Lord....but I'm here thinking with my mind, which is a better way to think, feelings aside.

Did you seriously ignore Chrono's glorious post as to why Roy was not garbage in Sword of Seals?

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

ORLY????

Your own list:


LOL dat salt and extreme bias, twisting own words trying to trick people into getting on your side.

Very attentive I see, still it doesn't matter, you are just straying us from the main point, it doesn't matter to me if Ike got out or Chrom got in aslong the moveset is still the same, and Roy logically is still down their...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Very attentive I see, still it doesn't matter, you are just straying us from the main point, it doesn't matter to me if Ike got out or Chrom got in aslong the moveset is still the same, and Roy logically is still down their...

I'm not the only one who has no idea what he's saying am I?

Grammar and sentence structure is your friend.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Did you seriously ignore Chrono's glorious post as to why Roy was not garbage in Sword of Seals?

Really, that's what caught your eyes? I really don't care of a scenario called what if , because it wont change the fact that Roy promotes late in the game, which means he is still crappy....he actually promoted when most of the units were promoted and were level 10-20.....

 

[FalKoopa]

Roy logically is still down their...

Ah, are you imagining yourself to be Sakurai?

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I'm not the only one who has no idea what he's saying am I?

Grammar and sentence structure is your friend.

Dude, that's so low of you attacking my grammar and sentence structure, I'm not from an English speaking country so excuse me if I'm confusing you, but still I think my point is clear.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Really, that's what caught your eyes? I really don't care of a scenario called what if , because it wont change the fact that Roy promotes late in the game, which means he is still crappy....he actually promoted when most of the units were promoted and were level 10-20.....

Ah. Give it a rest Ike Sama. No one is going to change anyone's opinion today. That is something I know for sure.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I'm not the only one who has no idea what he's saying am I?

Grammar and sentence structure is your friend.

Punctuation is off. But you shouldn't ignore what it did say. I think you can figure it out.
http://sadredearth.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/disagreement-hierarchy.jpg
Responding to tone or Ad Hominem, somewhere around there.

 

[•Col•]

Very attentive I see, still it doesn't matter, you are just straying us from the main point, it doesn't matter to me if Ike got out or Chrom got in aslong the moveset is still the same, and Roy logically is still down their...

Honestly, I think you do actually care. Oftentimes people say "I don't care whether/about _____" in an argument so they can appear to unbiased to your opponent in said argument, or outside observers of the argument. Even though they actually are biased.

And in your case, I'd definitely say you are. To the point of outright ignoring facts or even certain possibilities.

Yeah I'm biased for wanting Roy in, but I do think he has a pretty good chance of getting in. But I don't think its impossible or even extremely unlikely for Chrom/Ike to get in over Roy. In the end I think it mostly depends on what Sakurai thinks, and he obviously thinks Roy is important to the FE series. Not sure if he's said anything about Ike/Chrom or how he feels about them.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Dude, that's so low of you attacking my grammar and sentence structure, I'm not from an English speaking country so excuse me if I'm confusing you, but still I think my point is clear.

FalKoopa is from India. He speaks English better than most English speaking people I know. Regardless, if English isn't your native language, then you're not too bad actually. Just needs a bit more work.

Not really. I can't understand your point because I can't understand you're sentence. I'm not trying to be rude people. I honestly have no clue!