You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[PsychoIncarnate]

Today is Yarne's birthday. If you go to the barracks he gets a rare item, stat increases, and EXP. Assuming you have Yarne

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Man, Ike and Chrom really make sense as alt costumes of each other and nothing else. Seems like the only arguments people are making against it is Chrom's Aether animation (he doesn't have one, but he DOES do the flips in the Chapter 4 movie) and how he shouldn't be slow (as if Ike should be, RD stats aside).

 

[ChronoBound]

Man, Ike and Chrom really make sense as alt costumes of each other and nothing else. Seems like the only arguments people are making against it is Chrom's Aether animation (he doesn't have one, but he DOES do the flips in the Chapter 4 movie) and how he shouldn't be slow (as if Ike should be, RD stats aside).

Toise?!

How have you been?

 

[Oasis_S]

Couldn't Ike just be a costume for Chrom then. Maybe this isn't a very agreed upon... rule of thumb, but it seems to me that NEW is definitely > than OLD. Favored, at least. Supposing Mewtwo and Roy were planned for Brawl, they were left in the dust because it was better to introduce new faces, yeah? People like new things. Old things are all gross and dusty. And I hate dust.


Would it be so bad if Marth and Chrom were starters with Roy and Ike as unlockable semi-clones. It's not like four characters are overkill, and if the workload is less then why not. I mean, I could PROTEST WHY NOT, but it's a considerable possibility...?

 

[ChronoBound]

Toise I am not sure if you saw this as well:

Chrom concept art:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/psyvqda827ell5m/009.JPG

Ike pic for his Dojo unveil:
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/ike/ike_070801a-l.jpg

To Oasis, I do think Sakurai will try to get both Ike and Roy in if Sakurai does think Chrom has enough merit to be placed in.

Also, I highly doubt Sakurai would put in another person as an alternate costume for a character. Considering he did not even like the idea of Dr. Mario as an alternate costume, I doubt he would make a popular character like Ike basically the "overall Wario" for Chrom.

 

[Oasis_S]

It would probably be fine to have characters DRESSED as other characters. Chrom in Ike's armor or something.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Toise?!

How have you been?

I been good, but I haven't really left. Just gotta get used to sifting through these regular threads again.

Toise I am not sure if you saw this as well:
[...]

Also, I highly doubt Sakurai would put in another person as an alternate costume for a character. Considering he did not even like the idea of Dr. Mario as an alternate costume, I doubt he would make a popular character like Ike basically the "overall Wario" for Chrom.

Good ol' CB, supporting the obvious with the spurious. I love you and I hope you never change.

Yeah, I think the lack of costumes before is the biggest obstacle. Only difference might be that Mario has always been about different outfits providing different powers, and Doctorb allows for lots of wacky new and unnecessary things. Chrom takes just about everything from Ike, so it'd fit. History would suggest a Lucas though.

Couldn't Ike just be a costume for Chrom then.
[...]

Would it be so bad if Marth and Chrom were starters with Roy and Ike as unlockable semi-clones. It's not like four characters are overkill, and if the workload is less then why not. I mean, I could PROTEST WHY NOT, but it's a considerable possibility...?

Either way's fine.

Not "overkill" per se, but it's a lot more work than just making so-and-so a full alt. Wouldn't surprise me if he didn't like the idea anyway, probably something about compromising a character's identity or something lame.

 

[---]

Surprised to see Toise posting in the Character side of ****** City. Thought you were acting as SmashChu's personal handler in the Gameplay threads? To which I gotta ask, what the hell are they even discussing in those threads? I can't follow anything beyond: "Sakurai's trying to make the game better, time to panic."


Am still betting on Marth and Ike before anything. Chrom's begging to be the next Lucas of either of the former two, and Roy's out there rallying as much support as he can get. With Pokemon looking more stable now, am starting to bet on all 4 of them getting in, or Sakurai at least making the effort to do so.

Would it be so bad if Marth and Chrom were starters with Roy and Ike as unlockable semi-clones.

Ike the semi-clone? You've been skipping history class again haven't you, well this time I'm not letting you cheat off my paper.

 

[Oasis_S]

THAT WAS THE QUICKEST WAY TO SAY IT ALRIGHT GEEz.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Most likely candidates for a seat in SSB4 roster: (from the most likely, to the least likely).

1. Marth: he is the protagonist, he is the face of Fire Emblem (enough said)
2. Ike: to Marth, Ike is the other side of the coin.
3. Chrom: He is the newest lord, and if we are going with patterns, he is more likely than a lot of the cast, he is the most popular male character in Awakening.
4. Lyn: She was introduced as an assist trophy in the SSBB, (everyone should know that assist trophies are made for characters who couldn't make it in but were an option)
5. Lucina: Even though she looks like a gender swap version of Marth, she is still too relevant to the story, and she could make it as a clone to Marth or as a costume. She is the most popular female character in Awakening.
6. Avatar/Tactician/Robin: it's unique character, very versatile, Sakurai can have his freedom with him and on the + side he can use magic and maybe he can use Einherjar to summon heroes of Fire emblem as a final smash maybe or like Pokemon Trainer.
7. Roy: As so many claim Roy was planned for SSBB, but he was cut for no apparent reason, Roy as a character have nothing going for except being SSBM and being the most popular Lord among the GBA games (although it's a known fact that japan loved Roy before they even played Fire Emblem, and BTW Fire Emblem Sword of Seals sold so much because of Roy being in SSBM, which furthermore support the Idea of him being in SSBM for the sake of advertisement and no more than that.), the only chance Roy has if Sakurai made a new set of characters and called them instead of veterans "The Redeemed characters", and if he done that MewTwo has a better chance of joining because he is featured in the new movie to.
8. Priam/Paris: Descendant of Ike, he has a chance as a costume but if he actually became the protagonist of the next Fire Emblem, than he will have a really good chance.
9. The Protagonist of the next Fire Emblem: It worked with Roy, and it's a really good business move.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Most likely candidates for a seat in SSB4 roster: (from the most likely, to the least likely).Roy: As so many claim Roy was planned for SSBB, but he was cut for no apparent reason, Roy as a character have nothing going for except being SSBM and being the most popular Lord among the GBA games (although it's a known fact that japan loved Roy before they even played Fire Emblem, and BTW Fire Emblem Sword of Seals sold so much because of Roy being in SSBM, which furthermore support the Idea of him being in SSBM for the sake of advertisement and no more than that.), the only chance Roy has if Sakurai made a new set of characters and called them instead of veterans "The Redeemed characters", and if he done that MewTwo has a better chance of joining because he is featured in the new movie to.

Roy was cut due to time restraints. If you think Roy should remain cut, then the same logic applies to Mewtwo. Roy is popular. That's all that was needed.

 

[FalKoopa]

@Ike-Sama
Lyn and the Tactician have a better chance than Roy?
I don't think so.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Roy was cut due to time restraints. If you think Roy should remain cut, then the same logic applies to Mewtwo. Roy is popular. That's all that was needed.

Mewtwos is way more popular and seriously you compare Roy to Mew Two? I know people who know nothing about gaming who knows Mew Two, and I know people who are very knowledgeable about gaming but they haven't heard of Fire Emblem let alone Roy.

@Ike-Sama
Lyn and the Tactician have a better chance than Roy?

Lyn existed physically in SSBB, that gives her a better chance than Roy, and people shouldn't forget she is important for the western side of Fire Emblem.

and about the tactician, people should really stop underestimating the power of relevancy, after all relevancy got us the beloved Roy.

 

[Opossum]

Lyn existed physically in SSBB, that gives her a better chance than Roy, and people shouldn't forget she is important for the western side of Fire Emblem.

...being somewhere in the game, as an Assist Trophy, gives her a better chance at SSB4 than someone who was planned to be PLAYABLE in Brawl? Well, better start supporting Lakitu for the new Mario rep...

Seriously. That's terrible "logic."

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Roy was cut due to time restraints. If you think Roy should remain cut, then the same logic applies to Mewtwo. Roy is popular. That's all that was needed.

But Roy was still cut. Being cut due to time restraints means he wasn't worth making time for. This excuse doesn't mend the fact that he still didn't make it in to Brawl.

I'm honestly still worried that Roy would be too much like Marth. They'll probably luigify him but I would take a fully original character over that any day.

Edit: As for Lyn, I don't think she has much of a chance. Shes cool but, shes not the most important lord out of FE7 for one. I think the reason she was chosen for the assist is because of her potential to be an assist. It would be a lot harder to make Eliwood or Hector into an assist Trophy.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

...being somewhere in the game, as an Assist Trophy, gives her a better chance at SSB4 than someone who was planned to be PLAYABLE in Brawl? Well, better start supporting Lakitu for the new Mario rep...

Seriously. That's terrible "logic."

Well if that's a terrible Logic, than tell me this, why didn't Sakurai use the model of Roy and made him an assist trophy instead ? oh wait did they even make a model for Roy ? did they even go beyond the planning phase ? I really don't know, untill you can bring me an interview where Sakurai stated that he didn't include Roy for time constrains and then I will believe that.

 

[Opossum]

Well if that's a terrible Logic, than tell me this, why didn't Sakurai use the model of Roy and made him an assist trophy instead ? oh wait did they even make a model for Roy ? did they even go beyond the planning phase ? I really don't know, untill you can bring me an interview where Sakurai stated that he didn't include Roy for time constrains and then I will believe that.

Common sense, really. It'd just be insulting to demote a previously playable character to a mere Assist Trophy. A slap in the face to the fans, really.

 

[FalKoopa]

As for Lyn, I don't think she has much of a chance. Shes cool but, shes not the most important lord out of FE7 for one. I think the reason she was chosen for the assist is because of her potential to be an assist.

I believe she was chosen to be an AT as she had a large support base pre-brawl.

It would be a lot harder to make Eliwood or Hector into an assist Trophy.

Why?

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I believe she was chosen to be an AT as she had a large support base pre-brawl.



Why?

Look at Lyn's animation. Kneel down, She appears somewhere else, quick strike, somebody dies. What would you do for Elliwood or hector? Create a whole set of animations so they can run around the screen and hit people? That's quite a bit more work. Plus hector is slow and Lyn gets a lot of critical in game, shes based off a myrmidon class. So the whole OH-KO thing makes sense for her.

 

[N3ON]

Lyn existed physically in SSBB, that gives her a better chance than Roy, and people shouldn't forget she is important for the western side of Fire Emblem.

Wow. Opossum pretty much summed up what I was going to say, but damn, that's some faulty logic. That means that... oh... I dunno... Electrode has a better chance than Mewtwo. One existed physically, one was a cut character who didn't appear in the game (other than a trophy).

Also, Roy was instrumental in bringing FE overseas. Lyn wasn't. More people are familiar with Roy than Lyn, especially in the west. It might not be due to his actual game, but Roy is indeed more important for the western side of Fire Emblem, he was half the reason it was brought over. Lyn, while more important than some other lords, can't claim anything close to this. Plus, FE is more popular and important in the east. Where do you think Sakurai is going to look which FE characters had a larger impact, the region their popularity largely is based, the region that has gotten all their games, the region that actually caused the series to be successful, or a region where their games are niche, and the main source of their popularity stems from Smash?

Wow.

Well if that's a terrible Logic, than tell me this, why didn't Sakurai use the model of Roy and made him an assist trophy instead ? oh wait did they even make a model for Roy ? did they even go beyond the planning phase ? I really don't know, untill you can bring me an interview where Sakurai stated that he didn't include Roy for time constrains and then I will believe that.

In addition to the other points raised, because not every character has the same merit to Sakurai, they are not all model swaps in his mind. He didn't include Wario in Melee because he thought he deserved more than a cloned moveset of Mario, and he winded up a simple trophy. It's entirely possible Sakurai had a similar mentality with Roy in Brawl.

Roy made it further into programming than any character other than Mewtwo. The inclusion of Sonic likely pushed them both off the table (if Sakurai's comments about implementing existing movesets vs. new movesets in Melee are anything to go by). Sakurai wouldn't go to the lengths he did to develop Roy, evidenced by Roy's data, if he was never going to have the intention of including him.

 

[ChronoBound]

I am glad there are several people that are tearing Ike-Sama's flimsy assessment apart. At the very least Roy is fourth in line for a playable.

Finally, being an Assist Trophy does not mean anything in terms of being "next in line for a spot". If that were the case then I guess you will all have to accept Hammer Bros. and Waluigi as being ahead of Toad, Bowser Jr., and Paper Mario for a spot as a Mario newcomer, or that Tingle (who has not had a non-cameo appearance in a Zelda game since 2004), is more likely than Ghirahim, Toon Zelda, or Impa.

 

[Remzi]

I think the most interesting add from would be Hector from FE7. He's the only Lord to wield an axe (as far as I know/remember) and he could have a really unique playstyle. Like how many sword users do we really need? His odds of getting in are pretty bad since his game is so old now, but I think he'd be an awesome character.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think the most interesting add from would be Hector from FE7. He's the only Lord to wield an axe (as far as I know/remember) and he could have a really unique playstyle. Like how many sword users do we really need? His odds of getting in are pretty bad since his game is so old now, but I think he'd be an awesome character.

Ike uses axes as well, so we could change his moveset a little and give Ike an even more unique playstyle.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Look at Lyn's animation. Kneel down, She appears somewhere else, quick strike, somebody dies. What would you do for Elliwood or hector? Create a whole set of animations so they can run around the screen and hit people? That's quite a bit more work. Plus hector is slow and Lyn gets a lot of critical in game, shes based off a myrmidon class. So the whole OH-KO thing makes sense for her.

Till now the only person thinking with his mind is that guy...Gingerbread Man you get a round of applause from me.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

More people are familiar with Roy than Lyn, especially in the west.

Correction, Smash Fans are more familiar with Roy.
The most commonly spat out names here are (other than Chrom who is a very very obvious choice to consider) Marth, Roy, Ike, and Lyn. Every FE character who has appeared on the field. The popularity achieved for simply being in smash bros is so evident that it annoys me.

They are great characters, but other lords are just as great.

 

[FalKoopa]

I'll be happy as long as one of Lyn or Roy (or both) get in. Is it too much to ask for?

 

[N3ON]

Correction, Smash Fans are more familiar with Roy.
The most commonly spat out names here are (other than Chrom who is a very very obvious choice to consider) Marth, Roy, Ike, and Lyn. Every FE character who has appeared on the field. The popularity achieved for simply being in smash bros is so evident that it annoys me.

There are more Smash fans than Fire Emblem fans, thus... more people are familiar with Roy than Lyn. I stand by my statement.

FE fans are probably familiar with both... they're FE fans... it's not like Roy's popularity from Smash can't transfer over to FE fans knowing about him. Who do you think caused there to be Fire Emblem fans in the west in the first place?

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Correction, Smash Fans are more familiar with Roy.
The most commonly spat out names here are (other than Chrom who is a very very obvious choice to consider) Marth, Roy, Ike, and Lyn. Every FE character who has appeared on the field. The popularity achieved for simply being in smash bros is so evident that it annoys me.

They are great characters, but other lords are just as great.

Actually man, what really tips me off, is the fact some of the fans putting Roy over Ike, which is obvious nonesense, and BTW Chrom is even over Ike and I admit it, and here you find people spewing that Chrom isn't even a contender....

 

[Opossum]

Something that some people seem to not get is that popularity is popularity, no matter where it comes from. Be it Smash or the source material, it doesn't matter. If anything, Smash popularity should carry more weight than popularity in the source material. Otherwise, the Pokemon roster would include Excadrill, Garchomp, and Bullet Punch Scizor, with some Drizzle Politoed possibly mixed in.

@Ikesmama

I can tell you that I've never seen anyone put Roy on the roster in place of Ike around here.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't forget Blissey and Starmie.
They've been OU since their debuts.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It totally should have excadrill in it

and reuniclus while we're at it

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Actually man, what really tips me off, is the fact some of the fans putting Roy over Ike, which is obvious nonesense, and BTW Chrom is even over Ike and I admit it, and here you find people spewing that Chrom isn't even a contender....

Putting in Roy over Ike will just silent the Roy fans and vocalize the Ike fans. People who put Roy over Ike are probably just listening to whats being talked about most. :/

Who do you think caused there to be Fire Emblem fans in the west in the first place?

Marth

 

[Opossum]

Don't forget Blissey and Starmie.
They've been OU since their debuts.

It's been a while, so correct me if I'm wrong, but does Eviolite Chansey outclass Blissey? I've seen that said somewhere, but wasn't sure of the validity.

 

[N3ON]

...Yeah, no one (seriously) puts Roy over Ike...

@Opossum
I could go for some Bullet Punch Scizor in my Smash...

 

[FalKoopa]

Putting in Roy over Ike will just silent the Roy fans and vocalize the Ike fans. People who put Roy over Ike are probably just listening to whats being talked about most. :/

Both should be placed next tn each other.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Hopefully we could stay on topic here...

 

[Deleted member]

It's been a while, so correct me if I'm wrong, but does Eviolite Chansey outclass Blissey? I've seen that said somewhere, but wasn't sure of the validity.

Last I heard, while Evolite Chansey is far from useless, a Blissey is still the better route. Both have their seperate perks, though, like Chansey being more of a Physical wall while Blissey is a Special wall.


....though we should get back to Fire Emblem.....

 

[FlareHabanero]

....though we should get back to Fire Emblem.....

You mean the cycle of "you favorite lord is **** and mine is awesome"?

 

[Deleted member]

You mean the cycle of "you favorite lord is **** and mine is awesome"?

Pretty much.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Something that some people seem to not get is that popularity is popularity, no matter where it comes from. Be it Smash or the source material, it doesn't matter. If anything, Smash popularity should carry more weight than popularity in the source material. Otherwise, the Pokemon roster would include Excadrill, Garchomp, and Bullet Punch Scizor, with some Drizzle Politoed possibly mixed in.

I understand that. I've said this many times before so I'm going to use a metaphor.
A kid loves absolutely everything he eats. His mother wants him to try something but he wont because he never had it before. Instead he wants to stick with things hes already had. See whats wrong with this?

I guarantee that many new FE characters could become way more popular than somebody like Roy, if they actually got in the game. Its like great products not making as much money because they haven't been advertised.