You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[Scoliosis Jones]

So then that puts the nail in the coffin for the 'Lucina is best main character" debate? Considering she can die is all I mean.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

So then that puts the nail in the coffin for the 'Lucina is best main character" debate? Considering she can die is all I mean.

When you put a normal girl around a bunch of ugly girls, she will be a beauty queen...

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Excellent point, Hong, the Shepherds are probably the worst starting group ever. Middle of the road white knighting wax statues.

Edit: Also, to make the lord = main character thing clearer, we define a main character as one whose dead leads to an automatic Game Over in every chapter they are playable in.

http://serenesforest.net/general/generalfaq.htm


"Q) Who are the main characters of each games?

A) Here's the current list:

• FE1: Marth
• FE2: Arum and Cellica
• FE3: Marth
• FE4: Sigurd and Celice
• FE5: Leaf
• FE6: Roy
• FE7: Lyn, Eliwood and Hector
• FE8: Eirika and Ephraim
• FE9: Ike
• FE10: Micaiah and Ike
• FE11: Marth
• FE12: Marth and your Avatar
• FE13: Chrom and your Avatar

Note: The main heroes are usually of the Lord class, so some fans refer to them as just Lords."

 

[Robert of Normandy]

http://serenesforest.net/general/generalfaq.htm


"Q) Who are the main characters of each games?

A) Here's the current list:

• FE1: Marth
• FE2: Arum and Cellica
• FE3: Marth
• FE4: Sigurd and Celice
• FE5: Leaf
• FE6: Roy
• FE7: Lyn, Eliwood and Hector
• FE8: Eirika and Ephraim
• FE9: Ike
• FE10: Micaiah and Ike
• FE11: Marth
• FE12: Marth and your Avatar
• FE13: Chrom and your Avatar

Note: The main heroes are usually of the Lord class, so some fans refer to them as just Lords."

SF is a fansite, so unless they got this list from IS/Nintendo, then it doesn't mean much.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

SF is a fansite, so unless they got this list from IS/Nintendo, then it doesn't mean much.

An FE fansite run by somebody who probably knows more about the subject than anyone on these forums.

Also, why would IS even bother with that?
Not to mention that using the term lord to mean anything else besides just the class is a fan creation.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

An FE fansite run by somebody who probably knows more about the subject than anyone on these forums.

Still doesn't make the list official.

Not to mention that using the term lord to mean anything else besides just the class is a fan creation.

Yes. And?

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Still doesn't make the list official.

I never said it was official...
Its the input of somebody who has more credibility.
"Hey look what SF said" is what I meant by that post.

 

[Rouge]

It's pretty accurate.

 

[Shotguner159]

So then that puts the nail in the coffin for the 'Lucina is best main character" debate? Considering she can die is all I mean.

Her travelling back in time is pretty much the most important event of the game, so I'd say she is.

http://serenesforest.net/general/generalfaq.htm


"Q) Who are the main characters of each games?

A) Here's the current list:

• FE1: Marth
• FE2: Arum and Cellica
• FE3: Marth
• FE4: Sigurd and Celice
• FE5: Leaf
• FE6: Roy
• FE7: Lyn, Eliwood and Hector
• FE8: Eirika and Ephraim
• FE9: Ike
• FE10: Micaiah and Ike
• FE11: Marth
• FE12: Marth and your Avatar
• FE13: Chrom and your Avatar

Note: The main heroes are usually of the Lord class, so some fans refer to them as just Lords."

Leif is definitly a main character in FE4, and he isn't listed there.

 

[Roy-Kun]

The Main Character in a video game is necessary to be alive so the game can continue.

And the term 'Lord' here refers to the Main Character gameplay-wise, not plot-wise.

And Lucina is an important character, but she's no 'Lord' gameplay-wise. Unless you count The Future Past 3's Lucina..

 

[Frostwraith]

A main character is a protagonist of the story. A character whom the story revolves around. There may be several protagonists at once, of course.

Usually, when people refer to Lords in FE, they usually mean the main characters, since they are usually of the Lord class.

That said, the main characters in Awakening are, without a doubt, Chrom and the Avatar. They are the ones present in all of the important parts of the story. Lucina is close to being a protagonist, but doesn't get as much attention as Chrom or the Avatar.

This said, I think that, if a character from Awakening is to appear in Smash, it would be either Chrom or the Avatar. Considering Sakurai is giving focus on unique gameplay, this favors the Avatar's chances, considering his use of both swords and magic.

About Awakening's story, I liked it, even though I think it could have been better. Despite the criticism from parts of the fanbase, Awakening had some neat features I'd like to see re-implemented into later games of the series, such as the class system with branched promotions and the Second Seals to change to different classes and gain new skills. Some of the new classes were also nice additions, such as the Dark Flier or the War Monk/Cleric. I did, however, miss some great stuff about Radiant Dawn, such as status effects, the Shove and Canto skills, more complex map features such as elevation effects or ballistae, the Halberdier class and Light magic.

Something that made Awakening feel easier was the Pair Up function. If the computer player could use this function, it would have been more interesting to fight against the enemies.

 

[FalKoopa]

I define the main character as anyone who will cause a Game Over if he/she is killed. The list Gingerbread Man posted is fits this one (almost?) completely.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

SF is a fansite, so unless they got this list from IS/Nintendo, then it doesn't mean much.

What's the deal man, since when IntSys bothered with these little things...Lucina isn't the main character, because her death doesn't cause Game over, A main character is a character the you can't let go off....

 

[Frostwraith]

I forgot to mention that a character causing a game over means it's a main character. Of course, it is obviously so, since I did mention that the main character is the one whom the story revolves around. With the viewpoint character killed, the story can't be told anymore, can it?

 

[Roy-Kun]

What's the deal man, since when IntSys bothered with these little things...Lucina isn't the main character, because her death doesn't cause Game over, A main character is a character the you can't let go off....

Just to add one last bit of information here: Main Character =/= Major Character. And also Main Character > Major Character.

Let's just have that clear guys.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I forgot to mention that a character causing a game over means it's a main character. Of course, it is obviously so, since I did mention that the main character is the one whom the story revolves around. With the viewpoint character killed, the story can't be told anymore, can it?

Technically, Lucina can't "die" in FE13 either, since she just retreats, because the plot cannot continue without her.

 

[Roy-Kun]

Technically, Lucina can't "die" in FE13 either, since she just retreats, because the plot cannot continue without her.

Gameplay and Story Segregation. That still doesn't makes her a Main Character. She is a Major Character, she can't die for the sake of plot, but she can die for the sake of gameplay.

 

[Frostwraith]

Main character - A protagonist. Character the story revolves around. Usually the hero and his/her companions, but there are also villainous protagonists.
Fire Emblem examples: Marth, Sigurd, Roy, Lyn, Ephraim, Eirika, Ike, Micaiah, Chrom, Avatar
Major character - A more secondary character that has importance in the story, but is not central to it. These include the antagonist(s).
Fire Emblem examples: Shiida, Gharnef, Zephiel, Nergal, Soren, Titania, Ashnard, Sothe, Frederick, Gangrel, Lucina
Minor character - A less important character that has less impact on the story, appearing in selected scenes.
Fire Emblem examples: Pretty much every character that doesn't fit the above.

Technically, Lucina can't "die" in FE13 either, since she just retreats, because the plot cannot continue without her.

That is what I would call an exception. She's not nearly as important as Chrom or the Avatar, though.

 

[Fatmanonice]

.What do you consider "up-the-butt" expensive?

$100+. The most I'm usually willing to pay is 80 and that's only if I can't it find it myself IRL.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

We're arguing semantics, guys, and it's not that big a deal. I consider Micaiah, Ike, Lucina etc. to all be 'Lord' characters.

Robin's kind of a special case though. Being the Tactician, calling her a Lord seems off. FE7 being my first FE game, there is a distinction in my mind between Lord and Tactician, always.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

$100+. The most I'm usually willing to pay is 80 and that's only if I can't it find it myself IRL.

PoR is going for <$50 used on Amazon. RD is $75, though Gamestop has it for less.

 

[ToothiestAura]

We're arguing semantics, guys, and it's not that big a deal. I consider Micaiah, Ike, Lucina etc. to all be 'Lord' characters.

No, to be arguing semantics you have to argue the meaning of a word. We can't argue that Micaiah is a Lord through semantics because she has never actually been a Lord. Ike was on for half (probably less) of his first game. Lucina is a Lord, because the game gives her the title of Lord. Robin is not a Lord, because the game doesn't say so.

Also, Elincia is a main character of RD. If she died, you lost.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

No, to be arguing semantics you have to argue the meaning of a word. We can't argue that Micaiah is a Lord through semantics because she has never actually been a Lord. Ike was on for half (probably less) of his first game. Lucina is a Lord, because the game gives her the title of Lord. Robin is not a Lord, because the game doesn't say so.

Also, Elincia is a main character of RD. If she died, you lost.

Spoiler

Robin is technically price of plagia. Or at the very least, a part of a noble family. Micaiah also becomes part of royalty.

Elincia also was not playable until very late in the game.

Edit: You can cut this argument many different ways.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

No, to be arguing semantics you have to argue the meaning of a word.

...
...
...Yes, and the crux of the argument is the meaning of the term 'Lord' as different Fire Emblem fans use it. i.e. Semantics.

 

[Frostwraith]

Spoiler

Robin is technically price of plagia. Or at the very least, a part of a noble family. Micaiah also becomes part of royalty.

Elincia also was not playable until very late in the game.

She was playable in Part II of the game, which was centered on Crimea's rebellion against Elincia.

Elincia was the main character during that part, since it depicts her struggle to being recognized by her people as their ruler. The story is told from her and her knights' point of view.

Radiant Dawn has differing main characters depending on the parts:
Part I - Micaiah. This part is about her fight to drive the Begnion occupants out of Daein.
Part II - Elincia. I've stated the reasons already.
Part III - Ike and Micaiah. The story shifts the point of view between Ike and Micaiah, as they are in opposing sides.
Part IV (pre-Endgame) - Ike, Micaiah and Tibarn. The joint armies of the Greil Mercenaries, Laguz Alliance, Crimea, Begnion Holy Guards and Daein strike against Ashera's minions by dividing themselves into three teams, each led by a major character.
Parr IV Endgame - Ike and Micaiah. Ike and Micaiah lead the player's chosen troops in the Tower of Guidance against Ashera's most powerful forces and the Goddess herself.

As a whole, the characters with most prominence in Radiant Dawn are Micaiah and Ike. Elincia and Tibarn only get protagonism is specific parts of the story.

Spoiler

Also, Robin/Avatar is not the prince of Plegia. He/she's just Validar's child who happens to be the chosen vessel for Grima.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I still don't see Robin getting in over Chrom. Chrom is so heavily advertised frequently...it's obviously who Intelligent Systems would want to push. I don't know. I just don't see the Tactician happening.

As far as the definition of Lord goes, the Lord is in most cases the leader of the pack. If we're talking about main characters in the game, then it should be who cannot be killed in combat. So Awakening would be Chrom and Robin, Path of Radiance would be Ike besides the one chapter with Elincia.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

She was playable in Part II of the game, which was centered on Crimea's rebellion against Elincia.

Elincia was the main character during that part, since it depicts her struggle to being recognized by her people as their ruler. The story is told from her and her knights' point of view.

Radiant Dawn has differing main characters depending on the parts:
Part I - Micaiah. This part is about her fight to drive the Begnion occupants out of Daein.
Part II - Elincia. I've stated the reasons already.
Part III - Ike and Micaiah. The story shifts the point of view between Ike and Micaiah, as they are in opposing sides.
Part IV (pre-Endgame) - Ike, Micaiah and Tibarn. The joint armies of the Greil Mercenaries, Laguz Alliance, Crimea, Begnion Holy Guards and Daein strike against Ashera's minions by dividing themselves into three teams, each led by a major character.
Parr IV Endgame - Ike and Micaiah. Ike and Micaiah lead the player's chosen troops in the Tower of Guidance against Ashera's most powerful forces and the Goddess herself.

As a whole, the characters with most prominence in Radiant Dawn are Micaiah and Ike. Elincia and Tibarn only get protagonism is specific parts of the story.

Spoiler

Also, Robin/Avatar is not the prince of Plegia. He/she's just Validar's child who happens to be the chosen vessel for Grima.

My bad, I was thinking of PoR. You're right on that note.
also, if your father becomes king then consequently, you are a ____.

 

[Hong]

PoR is going for <$50 used on Amazon. RD is $75, though Gamestop has it for less.

That's absurd. I can get them for way less.

I'll see if one of my business partners has any copies of RD on file. If he does I should be able to get it really cheap. Talking $25~.

 

[Hong]

I still don't see Robin getting in over Chrom. Chrom is so heavily advertised frequently...it's obviously who Intelligent Systems would want to push. I don't know. I just don't see the Tactician happening.

Speaking of money, I would happily wager,,,

$100 that Chrom will be added to SSB4
$1000 that an Awakening newcomer will be added to SSB4
$10000 that there will be a new Fire Emblem character

If that makes any sense.

Chrom is the most likely addition to this game, but nothing I could guarantee. I think it largely depends on how the director feels about Ike, and how the rest of the cast looks. If he has some awesome idea for what he could do with one of the characters, he will do it. There is a lot of potential within the Fire Emblem series.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I will say that Chrom "replacing" Ike isn't exactly a clear cut proposition like people pretend it is. From a gameplay standpoint, it's basically taking a step backwards because Ike fulfills a niche Chrom lacks, which is a heavy swordman. From a popularity standpoint, again, Ike is still the more popular character despite how popular Fire Emblem: Awakening is. Not to mention the reluctance to scrap characters willy nilly, and the potential Replacement Scrappy scenario.

 

[Jaedrik]

I do not think we have sufficient information about Sakurai's valuations, or even the system input turns into characters, to make such generalizations as "Lords only", regardless of definition.

 

[Hong]

I will say that Chrom "replacing" Ike isn't exactly a clear cut proposition like people pretend it is. From a gameplay standpoint, it's basically taking a step backwards because Ike fulfills a niche Chrom lacks, which is a heavy swordman.

Not like Ike was what I would consider heavy in Path of Radiance, anyways. He was melded to a slow and heavy character in Smash bros to fulfill a niche.

From a popularity standpoint, again, Ike is still the more popular character despite how popular Fire Emblem: Awakening is.

Depends where you are asking.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Oh for bloody sakes, we aren't supposed to take canon so literal, if that was the case Kirby and Mewtwo would snap the game in half from being so damn broken while conversely R.O.B. and Jigglypuff would be incredibly useless. Ike has a large heavy sword, so he was a perfect candidate for filling in a heavy swordsman niche that contrasts with Marth and pretty much any other option barring possibly Hector.

 

[Hong]

Oh for bloody sakes, we aren't supposed to take canon so literal, if that was the case Kirby and Mewtwo would snap the game in half from being so damn broken while conversely R.O.B. and Jigglypuff would be incredibly useless. Ike has a large heavy sword, so he was a perfect candidate for filling in a heavy swordsman niche that contrasts with Marth and pretty much any other option barring possibly Hector.

No one was saying there is anything wrong with appending the quality to the character.

You need to relax. You get too touchy whenever someone says anything vaguely implying Ike is threatened.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I wouldn't be so touchy if it weren't for people labeling Ike in the same position as Roy, and conversely saying Chrom is in the same position as Ike. Because that isn't true.

 

[Hong]

The developer thinks so drastically different from 99% of the enthusiast fan-base. I wouldn't put it past him to add Tharja.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Speaking of money, I would happily wager,,,

$100 that Chrom will be added to SSB4
$1000 that an Awakening newcomer will be added to SSB4

Is this a real bet? I may or may not take it, probably not but it is intriguing.

 

[Hong]

Is this a real bet? I may or may not take it, probably not but it is intriguing.

If you want it to be, sure, why not?

For me to lose out, we would have to get only Marth, Ike or Roy for Fire Emblem characters. I suppose that is a more realistic possibility than I acknowledge.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

If you want it to be, sure, why not?

For me to lose out, we would have to get only Marth, Ike or Roy for Fire Emblem characters. I suppose that is a more realistic possibility than I acknowledge.

I'll think about it, Also if lyn makes it you should still lose out. any awakening makes me lose out. But again I probably won't take it, since I can't control the odds like say in a money match. Just wanted to know if you were serious

 

[Robert of Normandy]

That's absurd. I can get them for way less.

I'll see if one of my business partners has any copies of RD on file. If he does I should be able to get it really cheap. Talking $25~.

I'm not jealous.....nope, not jealous at all.....