You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[MLGF]

Listen, Awakening isn't my favorite game in the series. Heck, I'm usually on the offense when it comes to the game, as I think the weak map design and mindless enemy placement ruins a lot of what Fire Emblem is about.
But I can't fathom this idea where Chrom not having a canon promotion makes him a wuss, when it was obvious that they didn't want to take that direction in the first place. You're right, Awakening's story is a mess. There's no focus, the villains lack any depth and oftentimes lack any level of threat. Time travel is a mess and the avatar is a black hole which consumes any interesting development that the actual main protagonist could have utilized.

But when you say that Chrom is so much worse then Ike because he doesn't promote via cutscene, which is a major complaint plenty of fans have made (EG: Roy, Leif, Hector/Eliwood, ...practically all of them actually), I think it was best that they went this route. Was Sigurd not a badass because he came promoted? No, he's the most broken BAMF this series had. Is Chrom automatically weaker then Ike because his promotion isn't done after he's crowned king? No, there were enough implications elsewhere to prove that Ike >>> Chrom in story. (Priam is implied to be somewhat weaker then Ike and is obviously stronger then Chrom by a significant margin, Ike is famed as being a god slayer in story while Chrom can't handle Grima in the slightest, just looking at feats alone proves Ike's hands down a bigger BAMF then Chrom could ever be) I could even go into the questionable DLC if needed.

Awakening's story is a mess, Chrom is a weak protagonist, the game has some great things going for it but is dragged down in some big ways, but implying that Chrom is a weaker protagonist just because he doesn't promote via cutscene is... well... dumb.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Listen, Awakening isn't my favorite game in the series. Heck, I'm usually on the offense when it comes to the game, as I think the weak map design and mindless enemy placement ruins a lot of what Fire Emblem is about.
But I can't fathom this idea where Chrom not having a canon promotion makes him a wuss, when it was obvious that they didn't want to take that direction in the first place. You're right, Awakening's story is a mess. There's no focus, the villains lack any depth and oftentimes lack any level of threat. Time travel is a mess and the avatar is a black hole which consumes any interesting development that the actual main protagonist could have utilized.

But when you say that Chrom is so much worse then Ike because he doesn't promote via cutscene, which is a major complaint plenty of fans have made (EG: Roy, Leif, Hector/Eliwood, ...practically all of them actually), I think it was best that they went this route. Was Sigurd not a badass because he came promoted? No, he's the most broken BAMF this series had. Is Chrom automatically weaker then Ike because his promotion isn't done after he's crowned king? No, there were enough implications elsewhere to prove that Ike >>> Chrom in story. (Priam is implied to be somewhat weaker then Ike and is obviously stronger then Chrom by a significant margin, Ike is famed as being a god slayer in story while Chrom can't handle Grima in the slightest, just looking at feats alone proves Ike's hands down a bigger BAMF then Chrom could ever be) I could even go into the questionable DLC if needed.)

Awakening's story is a mess, Chrom is a weak protagonist, the game has some great things going for it but is dragged down in some big ways, but implying that Chrom is a weaker protagonist just because he doesn't promote via cutscene is... well... dumb.

Was Ike weak for going this route ? hell no, he was one of the best characters in the game, It's just Chrom offer virtually nothing other than the convoy to the team, If they gave a special promotion as an Exalt or something, this will give you a sense of growth which was absent in Awakening, and would have made Chrom a better character overall, they could've given him some really powerful skills that makes him much more unique.

 

[MLGF]

TBH, FE9 Ike is about as good as Chrom, at least if you play the game like a traditional FE and avoid grinding (which you should!)
And yes, I already explained that Chrom is a lot weaker then Ike as a character, but this is a story sacrifice that feels like it's for the better. You can have that growth without Chrom having a forced promotion (and vice-versa, as this series has proven) it simply, could have been done through different means. Just because Chrom didn't doesn't mean it couldn't have happened, Chrom's just kinda weak as a protagonist. Growth and forced Promotion don't have to coincide and it doesn't make the growth more genuine if other impactful moments coincide with the character.
Honestly, your arguments already been broken apart and I'm kinda sick of dealing with it. L8ter.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

TBH, FE9 Ike is about as good as Chrom, at least if you play the game like a traditional FE and avoid grinding (which you should!)
And yes, I already explained that Chrom is a lot weaker then Ike as a character, but this is a story sacrifice that feels like it's for the better. You can have that growth without Chrom having a forced promotion (and vice-versa, as this series has proven) it simply, could have been done through different means. Just because Chrom didn't doesn't mean it couldn't have happened, Chrom's just kinda weak as a protagonist. Growth and forced Promotion don't have to coincide and it doesn't make the growth more genuine if other impactful moments coincide with the character.
Honestly, your arguments already been broken apart and I'm kinda sick of dealing with it. L8ter.

You are not fighting my argument, you are just fighting an argument the you claim I made, My argument is obvious, the promotion of the main character should be made special, it's a visual sense of growth, freedom is nice but it should be restricted, and TBH the Freedom in Awakening was quite pointless for the lack online battles....

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Ike overall had the better character development. His character was set up to actually make the story good.

Chrom not having any character development is what killed him. He was just RD Ike with no previous backstory. In PoR, Ike was done incredibly well, using story sequences and moments of symbolism that showed his progression from being a stubborn boy into a dedicated leader.

Chrom didn't have that, and this to most, makes Ike the better lord.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Can we all just agree Ike is pretty cool?

 

[Freduardo]

I'm sure it's already been said, but I'd like a way different Fire Emblem Character by either using Ephraigm (Ohh, it's a spear!), Hector (Oooooh, it's an axe)

Or screw the Lord's there's still tons of characters, pick a mage (I loved Pent in FIre Emblem 4-5.) Or a horseguy! That fights in smash, on horseback!

Or of course, any mamkute or beast changer guy. (Faa would be adorable.)

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I think I'm the only one who doesn't mind the Lords only policy.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I think I'm the only one who doesn't mind the Lords only policy.

I'm with you in this...

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

The next Fire Emblem game should include Online battle with maps as huge as Fire Emblem 4, where 4 players can play on the same map each holding a castle, you can do truces and alliance on the same map with other players, you can claim 3 units from each losing side if you seize the castle, but you shouldn't kill the units you are recruiting, the cast is formed of Fire Emblem All-star where each lord and main character has a team of 11 units each unit is a known character in the Lord respective game, that's my Ideal Fire Emblem Online experience...

 

[MLGF]

I'm sure it's already been said, but I'd like a way different Fire Emblem Character by either using Ephraigm (Ohh, it's a spear!), Hector (Oooooh, it's an axe)

Or screw the Lord's there's still tons of characters, pick a mage (I loved Pent in FIre Emblem 4-5.) Or a horseguy! That fights in smash, on horseback!

Or of course, any mamkute or beast changer guy. (Faa would be adorable.)

...what?
How is that even a thing? I could understand before Awakening, but Awakening literally had a list of all the games in order.

 

[Niko Mar]

I think I'm the only one who doesn't mind the Lords only policy.

I don't think it's really a "Lords only policy," just that practically all the main characters are lords or become one. Main characters definitely come first in Smash, so I don't see why they'd choose a side-character/extra-rep over the various mains of other games.

On a different note, I'm just really excited to see more FE stuff in Smash now. I wonder what the Wii U stage will be, and how awesome Ike will look if they go with the redesign .

Spoiler

Btw, playing FE: Awakening right now and I'm pissed. The commander of this level just critical-one-shotted Tharja with a 2% chance of it .
Seriously, Awakening feels a lot more bull**** with the percentages than others.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

In general, I think if anybody legitimately expects a side character in over the main protagonist of a Fire Emblem game, they should think twice about it.

Mostly because it isn't going to happen.

 

[Freduardo]

How are those games a thing? Emulators when I was in college meant I played Fire Emblem 4 and 5 on the SNES. Both were translated and stellar games. Five, being a SNES game that came out well into the N64's lifespan was one of the most polished 16 bit games made. And the mage character of Pent was in both of them. (As were his children in 4 if you were smart enough and had him breed for your armies.) The character was OP, had some great moves, and a fun personality. And unlike anyone else in that Fire Emblem generation, was in both games as playable. And in the second half of 4, where you were sending his children to die for your cause, he stayed on in cutscenes as the advisor character, making him more important than the three lords in either of those games.

What does Awakening have to do with the fact that I played those two under the titles I played them as? I haven't gotten to get to play awakening yet, I don't know how that changes my SNES fire emblems.

 

[Niko Mar]

How are those games a thing? Emulators when I was in college meant I played Fire Emblem 4 and 5 on the SNES. Both were translated and stellar games. Five, being a SNES game that came out well into the N64's lifespan was one of the most polished 16 bit games made. And the mage character of Pent was in both of them. (As were his children in 4 if you were smart enough and had him breed for your armies.) The character was OP, had some great moves, and a fun personality. And unlike anyone else in that Fire Emblem generation, was in both games as playable. And in the second half of 4, where you were sending his children to die for your cause, he stayed on in cutscenes as the advisor character, making him more important than the three lords in either of those games.

What does Awakening have to do with the fact that I played those two under the titles I played them as? I haven't gotten to get to play awakening yet, I don't know how that changes my SNES fire emblems.

He was talking about how you said Pent was in FE 4-5. The only Pent I can think of is the one in FE7, with his kids being in FE6.

Are you confusing him with a different character (if so, show us a picture), or did you just mix up the numbers?

 

[Morbi]

I think I'm the only one who doesn't mind the Lords only policy.

I don't mind the Lords only policy at all. Not only do I not mind it, but I actually thoroughly enjoy it.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Oh boy, the lords only logic again..

 

[Morbi]

Oh boy, the lords only logic again..

Isn't Lyn a Lord too? If that is the case, even the assist trophies are Lord only.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You know, if Chrom=Corn and Roy=Rye, what about the other Lord characters (and Tiki)?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Say where is that Anna Banana picture?

 

[FalKoopa]

The lord-only policy is a thing because the main characters are all lords.

Anna is the only character who can possibly hope to defy that logic.

 

[BluePikmin11]

You can't forget Robin to defy the logic too.

 

[MLGF]

How are those games a thing? Emulators when I was in college meant I played Fire Emblem 4 and 5 on the SNES. Both were translated and stellar games. Five, being a SNES game that came out well into the N64's lifespan was one of the most polished 16 bit games made. And the mage character of Pent was in both of them. (As were his children in 4 if you were smart enough and had him breed for your armies.) The character was OP, had some great moves, and a fun personality. And unlike anyone else in that Fire Emblem generation, was in both games as playable. And in the second half of 4, where you were sending his children to die for your cause, he stayed on in cutscenes as the advisor character, making him more important than the three lords in either of those games.

What does Awakening have to do with the fact that I played those two under the titles I played them as? I haven't gotten to get to play awakening yet, I don't know how that changes my SNES fire emblems.

...That's Fin.
This is Pent, from FE7.

Spoiler

Yeah, Fin is my favorite FE character ever.
But he's not Pent.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

The next Fire Emblem game should include Online battle with maps as huge as Fire Emblem 4,

Pls no.

Also, you guys are aware that there's a perfectly good thread for non-Smash FE stuff, right?

 

[Roy-Kun]

Pls no.

Also, you guys are aware that there's a perfectly good thread for non-Smash FE stuff, right?

Can I talk about waifus there? If so then I'll go check it out. (No I don't like the Serenes Forest Forums).

And well, if we're having a non-Lord character for Smash, then my vote goes to Donnel, because I can.

 

[FalKoopa]

You can't forget Robin to defy the logic too.

Robin isn't a lord? I didn't know that.

 

[BluePikmin11]

He may be the main character of the game but, but he's not a lord, you can't even promote him to Lord class in the game I think.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

He may be the main character of the game but, but he's not a lord, you can't even promote him to Lord class in the game I think.

Micaiah, Alm, and Celica confirmed for not being Lords either then.

 

[Roy-Kun]

Well, with that logic... Lucina was a Lord, but her "death" doesn't cause a game over...

...Oh. Oh. Maybe we should refer them as main characters. Yes, using SMT terms in FE discussions. Yes I approve.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Maybe I got my knowledge mixed up on that one.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Ike wasn't a Lord in Radiant Dawn. He was a Hero then a Vanguard. Micaiah was a Light Mage/Sage/Priestess. ...And Queen Elincia is a queen. There were no Lords in the game whatsoever. (Dragonknights can become Dragonlords, but that hardly counts.)

So, shut up. Not only do lords not have to be the main character(s) of an FE game, Ike isn't even technically Lord. He isn't of royal blood, and was knighted. And then not a lord at all in his second game. So, Ike's like 1/4 Lord.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think I'm the only one who doesn't mind the Lords only policy.

Even though it's by technically standards fan ****, that's not the problem. Being a Lord isn't an inherent problem, it's being redundant that's the problem.

 

[Hong]

Ike was awesome.

But so were the Greil Mercenaries.

Chrom? He has the Shepherds. They felt like some kids that met in the hallways in school. It felt so silly (in a bad way) and forced and there was little in the way of connection. The characters are just not believable and I can't force myself to care about them.

The Greil Mercenaries, on the other hand, felt like a family. The series has NEVER seen a cast of characters that good. When I think of Ike, I think of his legacy and his company as much as I think about his personality. The only emotional connections that moved me in Awakening were Chrom<->Robin, Chrom<->Lucina and Tiki<->Marth. Even Emmeryn's relationship with her siblings just didn't work for me. But if you look at the Tellius series, there are just so many touching interactions that I can't even hope to compare the Greil Mercenaries to the Shepherds.

And really, let the fanbase do the talking. Hardly anyone cares about the Shepherds. Well, Sully went over well in the west, but that's about it.

I've been looking for a copy of Radiant Dawn for years that's not up the butt expensive. Truth be told, I've been looking for a copy of Path of Radiance that's not up the butt expensive too. I was only able to beat that game thanks to a friend lending it to me.

What do you consider "up-the-butt" expensive?

 

[BluePikmin11]

So Ike wasn't a Lord, that's pretty interesting, though people kept clamoring back in the Roster Discussion Thread that Ike is a lord (and the fact people say only lords make it), so I was assuming Ike was one of them.

 

[MLGF]

Well Elincia does call him "[her] lord Ike" a few times.
So Ike is like an honorary lord of Crimea in story.

May need to brush my teeth after spitting that bull**** of an explanation

 

[Hong]

So Ike wasn't a Lord, that's pretty interesting, though people kept clamoring back in the Roster Discussion Thread that Ike is a lord (and the fact people say only lords make it), so I was assuming Ike was one of them.

The term "lord" is a formality. We, as a fanbase, established the convention for the sake of simplicity. We could say "main character" if you would like, but we would like to have faith in others to have the discretion necessary to simplify things.

Ike was the first not of royal blood or nobility, though, so I suppose that was when things would get tricky, international fan or no. Micaiah and Robin would come right after, which are both two characters I would consider "lords" even if they are not ennobled.

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

Guys. Lords only = main characters only. Let's just end it there.

 

[Freduardo]

...That's Fin.
This is Pent, from FE7.

Spoiler

Yeah, Fin is my favorite FE character ever.
But he's not Pent.

Ah yes, my memory's error. I was thinking of Levin as the one who was in 4 and 5 and I'd like to see in Smash. And hey, apparently is playable in Awakening via spot pass! (That's three games, count em! I think Marth only has three or four) That game looks tempting. Though Fin was cool too and did the advisor thing, but with correct names put on, I had Levin and Pent mixed up cause they were both wandering overpowered sages.

 

[MLGF]

Levin isn't playable in FE5, which is why I assumed you were talking about Fin.

 

[Rouge]

Excellent point, Hong, the Shepherds are probably the worst starting group ever. Middle of the road white knighting wax statues.

Edit: Also, to make the lord = main character thing clearer, we define a main character as one whose dead leads to an automatic Game Over in every chapter they are playable in.