You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[Croph]

I agree. Final Fantasy has shown that being a dancer does not have to be a gender-oriented pursuit. Also I was upset to find out that there is only one (?) way to get an Inigo with pink hair. :'(

The funny thing is when I was first creating my Avatar, I knew wanted to make something kinda ridiculous (I usually never take avatar creators in games seriously). So, I made him have this weird hairstyle with pink hair, without even realizing that my child would have pink hair. Later in the game I'm just like, "OMG I could potentially have a pink-haired Inigo!! I'm definitely not missing this opportunity!" Would be pretty sweet if Inigo inherits pink hair from Olivia, though. Oh well...

I've mentioned before that it does make sense logically for Inigo to fit a Dancer role (heck, even as a Bard I wouldn't mind). Another reason why I kinda wished that Inigo starts as a Dancer (now, this could work even if he doesn't, but I think it would have more of an impact if he's in that class), is for the fact that it could be awesome if they play up on the whole "some people don't appreciate a male dancer" thing (which I believe Inigo talks about this when he first meets Olivia), and expand on that social issue (seriously, why don't people in the FE universe appreciate a male dancer?). Unless if it's mentioned again in other conversations and I'm just derping out (seriously can't remember anything now). There's a lot of other little things like this that I wouldn't mind some expansions on, but hey, I think they did a good job overall. But yeah, I'm kinda biased on the Inigo thing considering he's one of my fave FE characters. He's seriously up there on Roy level, no joke.

Also, I noticed you have Isa in your signature. Does that make us best friends?

Huh, another Isa fan!? Hey, any Isa fan is a friend in my book... or any S&P fan in general. Such an awesome obscure series that needs more love. :<

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Isa? S&P?

Also Griffon Riders were in no way redundant. Higher speed caps for more defense, not much less Str and better Skill with the strongest and most inaccurate weapons in the game. They were pretty cool and also the perfect class for Panne, who is a monster before you get any of the second-gen units.

 

[Hong]

Also Griffon Riders were in no way redundant. Higher speed caps for more defense, not much less Str and better Skill with the strongest and most inaccurate weapons in the game. They were pretty cool and also the perfect class for Panne, who is a monster before you get any of the second-gen units.

What we ended up with is a flying generalist. Wyverns, while being much more robust than the pegasus, were already general enough.

 

[Shotguner159]

I'm hoping that the Griffon Rider class separates itself from the Wyvern Rider ones in later games, and becomes its own class, similar to how Wyvern Rider used to be the promotion of Pegasus Knights. Preferably using swords as their main weapon.

 

[Hong]

Falcon Knight: Lances, swords, staves. Fastest, most resilient to magic. Could probably do without the staves though some players might have liked it.
Wyvern Lord: Axes, lances. Roughly a flying General, though not as robust as its land counterpart.
Griffon Rider: Axes, lances, swords. No overwhelming strengths or weaknesses, aside from bows and wind magic. Just about a flying Hero.

Pegasus Knight can promote to Falcon Knight or Griffon Rider, and Wyvern Knight can promote to Wyvern Lord or Griffon Rider.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I finished Path of Radiance yesterday. Great game. Better than Awakening. Ike needs to stay in Smash.

That is all.

 

[Hong]

:'( Not sure why the design fundamentals in Path of Radiance are absent from the entries after it. Such good chapter design.

We need more castles and choke points. ******* love choke points.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

:'( Not sure why the design fundamentals in Path of Radiance are absent from the entries after it. Such good chapter design. We need more castles and choke points. *****es love choke points.

The game overall is just...better than Awakening. The characters are more likeable, they're more developed... The story is great, and provokes actual thought.

Plus as an English major, I look for elements within the story, and I will say the twist with Ena in the end was fantastic.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Radiant Dawn seems to be rather hit-or-miss in terms of story, in that people love it or hate it. I think it's absolutely brilliant, personally, and you should deffers play it. Don't play it on Hard, though, not fun.

Also, HAAR.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hard would be that much better if it didn't let you start with the worst group of characters in Part 1...

 

[Hong]

Radiant Dawn seems to be rather hit-or-miss in terms of story, in that people love it or hate it. I think it's absolutely brilliant, personally, and you should deffers play it. Don't play it on Hard, though, not fun.

Also, HAAR.

I think Radiant Dawn's story is an entirely worthy continuity from Path of Radiance. Sure some of the characters were not the best, but it is even more suspenseful and engaging. They really knew how to keep you gripped.

All the faults within Radiant Dawn, in my opinion, are chapter design and unit stats towards the late game. Too many chapters towards the game that just did not feel engaging strategically. You start off in rather wide open areas, and within range of a good chunk of enemy forces. It is like the developers just want you to cheese it with broken characters. I have a hard time justifying Ike and the Laguz Royals otherwise.

When you get part that, you have an incredible soundtrack and the best 3d visuals the series has seen. The animation is awesome. Very fluid, very fast and exciting.

Tellius easily has the best plot and characters so far by a long-shot. I wish Awakening did with less characters, and instead opted to flesh them out better. I like that they were more daring and ridiculous, though that is no excuse to skip out back story. I think they did a good job with Virion and Brady, for example.

 

[Rouge]

Radiant Dawn is one of the greatest installments in my opinion. Sure the sheer amount of content may seem overwhelming but it only makes me love it all the more. I just love the story in general, it's epic.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't use any of the Royals in Radiant Dawn endgame. Personal rule. The game becomes too easy, then. Then stage 3 of the tower (you know, right after you get the blessings) is that much scarier. You're fighting the most dangerous, robust units in the game and your only crutch is Ike. Good luck.

Because of the no-Laguz rule, it became that much more engaging and exciting for me. Evenly-distributed Earth supports, Ilyana with Dragonfoe and a blessed Meteor tome as well as Rexbolt, and Haar/Jill no longer reliably tanking everything ... it was intense, frankly. I've never felt more accomplished in a Fire Emblem than when I managed to do a complete rout and finish the boss in 6 turns on that chapter.

 

[FlareHabanero]

It seems like a general censuses is Fire Emblem: Awakening is considered the best game in the series from people just getting into the franchise, while for veterans it's considered good but not the best due to some notable flaws.

 

[Hong]

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't use any of the Royals in Radiant Dawn endgame. Personal rule. The game becomes too easy, then. Then stage 3 of the tower (you know, right after you get the blessings) is that much scarier. You're fighting the most dangerous, robust units in the game and your only crutch is Ike. Good luck.

I like the sounds of that. I definitely want to try it out

I am always down for playing through the Tellius games again, mostly to experience the story again.

It seems like a general censuses is Fire Emblem: Awakening is considered the best game in the series from people just getting into the franchise, while for veterans it's considered good but not the best due to some notable flaws.

Would make sense. They covered all of the typical and annoying anime tropes fairly well with the cast which has helped to generate a large and loud segment of the fanbase. Plus just the increased accessibility in both the lower barrier of entry, as well as the demo, means a lot of people who have tried Awakening and are unlikely to go back and try out earlier games.

 

[Hong]

For those who haven't seen it, Intelligent Systems was moved to their own studio right by Nintendo's HQ in October.

Not much is known about what is going on in there besides the development of SMTxFE. Still, it is always good to see them getting proper respects. A lot of Nintendo's infrastructure (namely their portable and console divisions) were combined to improve efficiency, while IS gets their own space. If they were, say, cut down in size or merged into another department, that would indirectly speak ill for the future of Fire Emblem. There is no denying that Awakening, more than anything, produced results. Nintendo wants more of that.

It is a relatively small office, but suitable for the kinds of games they create. Their puzzle games are more about using fewer assets in many ways (eg. PushMo, Panel de Pon), and their strategy games are certainly things that will take a fixed time to properly develop regardless of how much power you have.

 

[loganhogan]

Of these chapter goals which is your favorite?

-Defend
-Route
-Kill boss
-Seize/Escape
-Combination of two of the above

 

[Hong]

Of these chapter goals which is your favorite?

-Defend
-Route
-Kill boss
-Seize/Escape
-Combination of two of the above

I think Defend is the best.

Not only does it usually involve CHOKE POINTS, but they usually if not always reward you for aggressively launching an attack on the enemy. It creates a fun challenge of wanting to plan the fight so you deliberately fight off as many waves as possible to get the most experience, then kill the boss on the very last turn possible to get their loot.

Seize is a close second, just because having to capture a gate or throne just seems cool from a theatrical perspective.

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

Of these chapter goals which is your favorite?

-Defend
-Route
-Kill boss
-Seize/Escape
-Combination of two of the above

Defend. I find the endgame of Part 2 RD fun. Your allies are idiots, many of them die early on, and you don't get any reinforcements for a while. I love it.

 

[loganhogan]

I agree so much! Defend is also my favorite chapter goal, in each of the previous Fire Emblem games the defend chapters were always my favorite. What about Fog of war? Do you guys like that? I hate-love it because it can screw me over but it's also very exciting and I like it because my healers can use torch staff and spam exp for more levels.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Of these chapter goals which is your favorite?

-Defend
-Route
-Kill boss
-Seize/Escape
-Combination of two of the above

Defending is the best goal, it does give me the most awareness of protecting a soldier or merchant while still tracking the enemy's next move.

For those who haven't seen it, Intelligent Systems was moved to their own studio right by Nintendo's HQ in October.

Not much is known about what is going on in there besides the development of SMTxFE. Still, it is always good to see them getting proper respects. A lot of Nintendo's infrastructure (namely their portable and console divisions) were combined to improve efficiency, while IS gets their own space. If they were, say, cut down in size or merged into another department, that would indirectly speak ill for the future of Fire Emblem. There is no denying that Awakening, more than anything, produced results. Nintendo wants more of that.

It is a relatively small office, but suitable for the kinds of games they create. Their puzzle games are more about using fewer assets in many ways (eg. PushMo, Panel de Pon), and their strategy games are certainly things that will take a fixed time to properly develop regardless of how much power you have.

What a glorious building.
They better be developing a new For The Frog the Bell Tolls game.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Of these chapter goals which is your favorite?

-Defend
-Route
-Kill boss
-Seize/Escape
-Combination of two of the above

I always liked defend the most. It involves a little more strategy than the other types do since enemies keep appearing. I was rather disappointed by the lack of defend in Awakening. I don't think it even happened once.

 

[Hong]

I agree so much! Defend is also my favorite chapter goal, in each of the previous Fire Emblem games the defend chapters were always my favorite. What about Fog of war? Do you guys like that? I hate-love it because it can screw me over but it's also very exciting and I like it because my healers can use torch staff and spam exp for more levels.

Also, it is kind of cool to have the player stick thieves in mountains to provide vision for the rest of their team. That is one of the concepts I liked about Advance Wars.

Fog of war is at its best when the map is designed right. Sacred Stones had that one chapter on Eirika's Route where you recruit L'Arachel. I liked it because they reasonably limited the areas in which the enemies could approach, but you still had to brave into the unknown.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

So basically Fog of War is good if there are Choke Points?

You really seem to like choke points.....

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

I agree so much! Defend is also my favorite chapter goal, in each of the previous Fire Emblem games the defend chapters were always my favorite. What about Fog of war? Do you guys like that? I hate-love it because it can screw me over but it's also very exciting and I like it because my healers can use torch staff and spam exp for more levels.

I'm the same really. Fog of war definitely presents a challenge, especially when your playing with the dawn brigade. *shudders* The laguz come out of nowhere and if you're not careful, its a slaughter. I usually start the chapter over when I lose someone. I've lost count of how many times I've started over because of that.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Of these chapter goals which is your favorite?

-Defend
-Route
-Kill boss
-Seize/Escape
-Combination of two of the above

Obviously Defend and Seize/Escape.

There's too much of Route the enemy, and kill boss. (i'm looking at you awakening.)

I'm the same really. Fog of war definitely presents a challenge, especially when your playing with the dawn brigade. *shudders* The laguz come out of nowhere and if you're not careful, its a slaughter. I usually start the chapter over when I lose someone. I've lost count of how many times I've started over because of that.

Dude just make a wall with your strongest units on both sides (away from the river preferably, because their movement is cut), black knight shows up around turn six 6ish and then proceed to wreck everything. that's one way of doing it.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Obviously Defend and Seize/Escape.

Agreed with you. Though do you mean FE9/10 escape or FE5 Escape?

There's too much of Route the enemy, and kill boss. (i'm looking at you awakening.)

There's a difference between those two?

Seriously, Sword of Seals gets a ton of flack for being nothing but Seize chapters, but I don't see as much hate on Awakening for being nothing but Rout/Kill boss chapters

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Agreed with you. Though do you mean FE9/10 escape or FE5 Escape?

There's a difference between those two?

Seriously, Sword of Seals gets a ton of flack for being nothing but Seize chapters, but I don't see as much hate on Awakening for being nothing but Rout/Kill boss chapters

I liked FE9/10's but either will do.

Yeah, you could just charge in there with the strongest unit and clear the chapter. You don't have to clear everyone.

That's because people are enamored with chrom booty, (plus most people are new to the franchise through awakening so yeah.) That was one of the problems I had with SOS.

 

[Hong]

So basically Fog of War is good if there are Choke Points?

You really seem to like choke points.....

Yes,

Because you could literally make a Fire Emblem game with nothing but bridges, narrow mountain trails and castle passages, and still have a fun game.

There are so many factors that change them. For example, choke points can be as wide as four cells, which really complicates things for players like myself who don't like to use a lot of melee. Or, you can have enemy mages and archers on the side, making advancing an arduous proposal. Bridges have been rather notorious for the fact while you block frontal assaults, aerial fighters can still get you at all sides.

The possibilities are endless!

 

[loganhogan]

The closest thing in Awakening to defend is the chapter where you need to guard Tiki.

Also, it is kind of cool to have the player stick thieves in mountains to provide vision for the rest of their team. That is one of the concepts I liked about Advance Wars.

Fog of war is at its best when the map is designed right. Sacred Stones had that one chapter on Eirika's Route where you recruit L'Arachel. I liked it because they reasonably limited the areas in which the enemies could approach, but you still had to brave into the unknown.

That is one of my favorite chapters in Sacred Stones actually that one and Chapter 19, I have a lot of memories of those two chapters. It's the defend chapters that bring my entire team to play, including the archers.

I'm the same really. Fog of war definitely presents a challenge, especially when your playing with the dawn brigade. *shudders* The laguz come out of nowhere and if you're not careful, its a slaughter. I usually start the chapter over when I lose someone. I've lost count of how many times I've started over because of that.

That's a challenging map if you've leveled up Nolan he might come in handy with Tarvos.

 

[Hong]

That's basically the gist of the Dawn Brigade.

You have so few characters who can take the hits, but honestly their ability to deal damage is nothing to be ashamed of.

Whether it's being attacked by wyverns from the swamps or mountains, or being ambushed from the darkness, you run the risk of not only being unable to cover all avenues of attack, but poor ol' Nolan can get overrun. :'(

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

@ Hong and @ loganhogan

I've tried that in the past, but half of the time Nolan's just been promoted, so he can't wield the good axes. How do you guys level up the dawn brigade?

 

[---]

You really seem to like choke points.....

Doga will choke that point.

 

[Niko Mar]

I need to play Radiant Dawn again, I've actually never beaten it.

I remember renting it around the time it came out, but I only played a little bit before returning it (I think I was disappointed with it ).

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Defend. I find the endgame of Part 2 RD fun. Your allies are idiots, many of them die early on, and you don't get any reinforcements for a while. I love it.

a) Ah, I don't have the patience for that chapter, so I just tend to 2-turn it. It involves a 3-point stratagem.
Point 1: Elincia with Physic
Point 2: Callil with Meteor
Point 3: The Black Death The Flying Fortress The Witch-King of Angmar Haar with Hand Axes

Seriously, the amount of abuse that Haar can take even on that chapter is amazing. The second time I played PoR I specifically made sure to blow a ton of BEXP on Haar, because he's broken enough in RD; now imagine that with transfer bonuses :D So yeah, turn 1 eat enemy phase, turn 2, kill boss.

b) THE FOG OF WAR CHAPTER WITH DAWN BRIGADE AND THE LAGUZ, OMG. Okay, so for that chapter, all of my units were weaklings. Seriously, absolute weaklings. I'd neglected to train most of them in favor of Jill, who was a newly promoted Dragonlord. So I had to get creative.

Step 1: Equip Sothe with Shade, and a knife.
Step 2: Equip Jill with Savior.
Step 3: Rescue Micaiah with Jill IMMEDIATELY.
Step 4: Always keep Sothe close to Jill so that enemies preferentially ignore him.
Step 5: Do not deploy anyone else in the Dawn Brigade.

That's how I survived the damn chapter. One enemy phase of Jill slaughtering Laguz at a time. Sothe also got a bunch of XP with Paragon, as I was trying to make him useful for Endgame. It didn't work out ... he remained stuck with Shade for pretty much the whole game. Micaiah can at least assist with Staffs, and that actually helps a lot when the bosses start tossing out those AoE blasts.

c) To conclude, I like defend chapters too! They make you get creative, what can I say. My favorite one has to be Ilyana's recruitment chapter from Path of Radiance (You know ... just after tragedy strikes.) Sure, Titania patches the southern choke point ... but what about the other two? Especially with my self-restriction on using healing items (I only use clerics for healing) it becomes a real challenge. About halfway through I have to have Oscar and Titania switch positions so I can heal Oscar safely :D

 

[loganhogan]

What about Zihark and Jill?

@ Hong and @ loganhogan

I've tried that in the past, but half of the time Nolan's just been promoted, so he can't wield the good axes. How do you guys level up the dawn brigade?

When you're in Part 1 make a really good forge or two for the character(s) you're training. Give him Paragon or beastkiller skill in part 3 chapter 6 so he can gain a ton of levels. His Tarvos axe helps him survive longer. What mode do you like playing Radiant Dawn and how fast do you play? If you're trying to play faster then it's a good idea to raise only 1 or 2 of the dawn brigade, focus all the resources on them instead of everyone.

If you're in normal mode Micaiah can become a glass cannon with the resolve skill throughout the rest of the game, she may need a robe though.

 

[ToothiestAura]

I need to play Radiant Dawn again, I've actually never beaten it.

I remember renting it around the time it came out, but I only played a little bit before returning it (I think I was disappointed with it ).

RD is pretty good. I feel Radiant Dawn gives the largest scale of any FE game. There's so much going on and it's just incredibly epic: Three armies coming together for large scale battles, fighting amongst the player-controlled armies, goddesses, dragons, laguz, a third class level. Some of these battles had easily 100+ units on screen and required you to kill 80+ or something crazy. I enjoy it a lot, I even replay it every now and then, but it's really not that great. I think the story's fairly interesting, but some parts leave a lot to be desired. I specifically disliked the section about the Royal Crimean Knights, I felt it was just an excuse to extend the game. But re-introducing those character was important, I suppose. However, I feel had Part 2 of the game (the Knights section) been removed and replaced with more Dawn Brigade stuff there wouldn't be this lack of level/power I always feel when I rejoin them. The change in support system is a poor choice too, (one support per character; it really sucks). I think PoR is better in that regard, but RD provides an epic feel to it's missions. Overall, I think the "radiant" saga provides some of the better gameplay in FE (I really ****ing love terrain advantage).

 

[Niko Mar]

RD is pretty good. I feel Radiant Dawn gives the largest scale of any FE game. There's so much going on and it's just incredibly epic: Three armies coming together for large scale battles, fighting amongst the player-controlled armies, goddesses, dragons, laguz, a third class level. Some of these battles had easily 100+ units on screen and required you to kill 80+ or something crazy. I enjoy it a lot, I even replay it every now and then, but it's really not that great. I think the story's fairly interesting, but some parts leave a lot to be desired. I specifically disliked the section about the Royal Crimean Knights, I felt it was just an excuse to extend the game. But re-introducing those character was important, I suppose. However, I feel had Part 2 of the game (the Knights section) been removed and replaced with more Dawn Brigade stuff there wouldn't be this lack of level/power I always feel when I rejoin them. The change in support system is a poor choice too, (one support per character; it really sucks). I think PoR is better in that regard, but RD provides an epic feel to it's missions. Overall, I think the "radiant" saga provides some of the better gameplay in FE (I really ****ing love terrain advantage).

Thanks for the info !

I think that Part 2 thing is correct, I'm pretty sure that's where I gave up on the game. It's been so looong! I'll probably just start up a Gamefly account and get it there, as many of the websites I checked are charging outrageous prices for RD (even gamestop wants $65 for it used ). I know some old fashion game stores though, so I could always try that if nothing else works.

Btw I really loved PoR, I definitely beat that all the way through (and then some with the challenge maps). I wish I still had it.....

 

[jaytalks]

Of these chapter goals which is your favorite?

-Defend
-Route
-Kill boss
-Seize/Escape
-Combination of two of the above

Seize. Especially thrones.

 

[Hong]

@ Hong and @ loganhogan

I've tried that in the past, but half of the time Nolan's just been promoted, so he can't wield the good axes. How do you guys level up the dawn brigade?

I always ended up with them promoted by the time I finish part 1. I use as few of them as possible, and I try to let the weaker ones land killing blows. On Hard, Nolan should be able to survive at least one Laguz attack without being doubled.