You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[Croph]

Hmm, I'd be cool if we do get an FE villain though (not that I'm expecting one or anything). I don't really have a fave villain... well, I am particularly fond of characters that fall within the Camus archetype (if you wanna count those). Plus whenever I come across them I'm always like, "Dammit, why do you have to be so stupidly loyal!? Why must you be so blind! Can't we just like negotiate something here. Like c'mon man..." But of course most of these characters die in the end. :<

This is why I'm hoping FE villains will make an appearance in SMT x FE. I'd be overjoyed if some are playable as well.

 

[Hong]

Even if we could just have a dark mage lead. Maybe a game with a dark mage male lead and a knight/soldier female lead? That could be fun.

I like stories that show that "dark" is not necessarily evil. Maybe they seek to conquer the land as a consequence to prevent a much greater calamity. Sort of like a fantasy version of the unity of China.

That also reminds me of Walhart, in a way. I feel like he could have been more awesome if he had enough screen-time and exposition. :/

Edit - Dheginsea is an excellent villain. I felt very frustrated with him in Radiant Dawn. Not because the fight was hard or the writing was dumb, but I felt frustrated with his old, foolhardy stubbornness... Because I liked him and I didn't want to have to do it. The track used for the fight is excellent, and helps to highlight the tragic nature of the encounter.

 

[jaytalks]

If the continuation of the Awakening is a prequel game, then technically would get a villain lead if Chrom's father is the protagonist.

But aside from that, none of FE villains are really at the Smash Villain level. Unlike protagonists, who can be secondary as long as you have the first, main protagonist, the villains in Smash are all THE villain in the series. Aside from Wolf, who is actually more of a rival to Fox in the more recent entries as he works in his separate mercenary group. The closest thing to a villain of that caliber in the international releases would be the Black Knight. The best way to get a FE villain is Smash is to have a villain operate as a rival that overshadows the main protagonist, like Kain overshadow Cecil in FF4. Of course, Kain really isnt a villain but that would be the best shot for FE villain.

 

[Croph]

A dark mage lead would be pretty sick actually. Heck, if they really want, through the lead, they could play up the fact that Dark Magic isn't really the source of "evil" as it really comes down to the user... or perhaps explain that you cannot let the magic take complete control over you, or else you become pure EVIIIIILLL!!... Or something... as long as it's interesting and perhaps convenient to the plot/character.

Though, I'd personally have a female Barbarian and a male Dancer as leads. No regrets!! Too bad IS is so fixated on gender restricted classes :/

 

[Mirron]

Eh, I don't see why Dark Magic is evil. In the games it appears in it's pretty heavily implied that while more taxing than other branches, it isn't inherently bad. Lyon used it for flat out good, and we've had plenty of good people who used it and still retained control. Niime even used it to an advanced age and was still fine.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

To be completely honest, I only see Lord's getting into Smash.

However, with that said, I think IS needs to come up with a new lord that doesn't use a sword. I think a mage or even a laguz lord would be incredibly interesting, and would be an amazing contribution to Smash Bros.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Late but you know who my favorite lord/main character is (my waifu). After that its roy, marth, ike, leif, hector, sigurd, ephraim, lucina, than I guess micaiah.

Also I wouldn't mind A dark mage Lord for the next FE.

Personally i'd like to see a full on laguz lord, that would be interesting.

 

[Rouge]

I'd love to get a lord/main character seeking redemption after being chased from their kingdom for a crime they committed. After their departure, things go sour with the traditional tyrannical monarch going crazy so the main character has to rebuild their peoples trust in them, slowly but surely, as they marches towards the capital.

It would shake things up, I'm a bit over the "wholly righteous lord" gimmick.

 

[Niko Mar]

Late but you know who my favorite lord/main character is (my waifu). After that its roy, marth, ike, leif, hector, sigurd, ephraim, lucina, than I guess micaiah.

Also I wouldn't mind A dark mage Lord for the next FE.

Personally i'd like to see a full on laguz lord, that would be interesting.

Your waifu is Chrom?

I'd love to get a lord/main character seeking redemption after being chased from their kingdom for a crime they committed. After their departure, things go sour with the traditional tyrannical monarch going crazy so the main character has to rebuild their peoples trust in them, slowly but surely, as they marches towards the capital.

It would shake things up, I'm a bit over the "wholly righteous lord" gimmick.

I agree, they need something that can spice things up a bit. Maybe something a bit like FF4, where the main character discharges from a tyrannical kingdom to fight against it, gathering companions (from the remains of fallen and rival countries) on a grand quest before coming back to defeat the kingdom once and for all.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Or give me a Lord that rides a dragon.

Yeah, now we're talking.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Your waifu is Chrom?

Darling, if you take a look at my sig you'd find out that it isn't chrom. Your a amusing bloke, i'll give you that.

Spoiler

 

[Niko Mar]

Darling, if you take a look at my sig you'd find out that it isn't chrom. Your a amusing bloke, i'll give you that.

Spoiler

Ya mean 'at green 'air chic' ya gots down 'ere? That's tat Erika chic', ain't it?

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Ya mean 'at green 'air chic' ya gots down 'ere? That's tat Erika chic', ain't it?

Right... I see what your yer doin' bloke, you know very well that I mean the lady lyndis. Blimey! are ya blind? it ain't tat Erika chic'.

Spoiler

 

[Niko Mar]

Right... I see what your yer doin' bloke, you know very well that I mean the lady lyndis. Blimey! are ya blind? it ain't tat Erika chic'.

Spoiler

She shur' looks 'lot like 'at Erika chic'. Ya certin' mate? Boss told us ta nab a green 'air chic' wit a sword, and 'ats definitely a green 'air chic' wit a sword.

Spoiler

Lol we could do this forever . Fire Emblem scripts Ohhh Hoooooo!

 

[XStarWarriorX]

She shur' looks 'lot like 'at Erika chic'. Ya certin' mate? Boss told us ta nab a green 'air chic' wit a sword, and 'ats definitely a green 'air chic' wit a sword.

Spoiler

Lol we could do this forever . Fire Emblem scripts Ohhh Hoooooo!

You dolt! 'er 'air is Cyan at best, It's not green! Oh.... Boss will be mad when he finds out mate. It's best we high tail it on outta 'ere.

Spoiler

we've done our damage, time to put this to a close. mainly because I can't get the accent down in type, in real i can tho. Plus people will be mad that we de-railed the thread.... they'll show no sympathy to us if we go any further.

 

[UltimateWario]

All this talk of Laguz and you people are forgetting about the beast people that actually matter.

I'm talkin' 'bout a Manakete Lord, *****. Little guy doesn't know he's a manakete until a certain point in the game, then BOOM, CLASS CHANGE, you can use Dragon Stones in addition to your regular weapon (which would be spears or axes, because seriously, **** swords straight up the poop chute).

Hell yeah. Get that weak-ass Laguz **** outta here.

 

[Croph]

All this talk of Laguz and you people are forgetting about the beast people that actually matter.

I'm talkin' 'bout a Manakete Lord, *****. Little guy doesn't know he's a manakete until a certain point in the game, then BOOM, CLASS CHANGE, you can use Dragon Stones in addition to your regular weapon (which would be spears or axes, because seriously, **** swords straight up the poop chute).

Hell yeah. Get that weak-*** Laguz **** outta here.

IS!!! WHERE'S MY FE 6/7 REMAKE WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF ROY TRANSFORMING INTO A DRAGON!?

Spoiler

Seriously, with Manakete!Morgan (1/4 dragon) being able to use Dragonstones, anything is possible...

But speaking about dragons, I'd really appreciate seeing a GOOD Earth Dragon. Like, seriously, are all Earth Dragons (or once Earth Dragons) damned to be the cause of the apocalypse? Make up some BS that there's a surviving Earth Dragon that ain't all that insane, and willing to help the player. And omg, plot twist: we're introduced to a Divine Dragon which ends up becoming a villain... well, I do find something like that interesting haha.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

IS!!! WHERE'S MY FE 6/7 REMAKE WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF ROY TRANSFORMING INTO A DRAGON!?

Spoiler

Seriously, with Manakete!Morgan (1/4 dragon) being able to use Dragonstones, anything is possible...

But speaking about dragons, I'd really appreciate seeing a GOOD Earth Dragon. Like, seriously, are all Earth Dragons (or once Earth Dragons) damned to be the cause of the apocalypse? Make up some BS that there's a surviving Earth Dragon that ain't all that insane, and willing to help the player. And omg, plot twist: we're introduced to a Divine Dragon which ends up becoming a villain... well, I do find something like that interesting haha.

Spoiler

Firstly, RD did a wonderful job at taking usual fantasy tropes about divinity, order and chaos and turning them on its head. It was pretty great.

Secondly, Manakete Morgan is nowhere close to 1/4 dragon. Morgan can be a Manakete if you marry Tiki or Nowi, in which case assuming Robin is 100% human, Morgan is half-dragon at worst. Then you take into account that Robin is THE GODDAMN FELL DRAGON GRIMA.

Which actually makes the most interesting origin for Morgan imaginable, especially if you marry Tiki. The offspring of the Divine Dragon's Voice and the Fell Dragon's incarnation? IS, you ****ing done goofed. There should be a secret support conversation just for that.

 

[jaytalks]

Spoiler

Firstly, RD did a wonderful job at taking usual fantasy tropes about divinity, order and chaos and turning them on its head. It was pretty great.

Secondly, Manakete Morgan is nowhere close to 1/4 dragon. Morgan can be a Manakete if you marry Tiki or Nowi, in which case assuming Robin is 100% human, Morgan is half-dragon at worst. Then you take into account that Robin is THE GODDAMN FELL DRAGON GRIMA.

Which actually makes the most interesting origin for Morgan imaginable, especially if you marry Tiki. The offspring of the Divine Dragon's Voice and the Fell Dragon's incarnation? IS, you ****ing done goofed. There should be a secret support conversation just for that.

if you marry Nah, Morgan will be 1/4 Manakete.

 

[Mirron]

Spoiler

I think he means that you could marry Nah, who would be a half-dragon due to the father being a human no matter what way you slice it. So Morgan would be 1/4.

I'd like to see a playable Manakete Lord myself. Would be interesting for sure. I would like him (assuming him because guys tend to be the Lords) to be a Divine one, or a new Dragon type.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Oh, right.

I just kind of forcibly block out the fact that you can marry the kid units.

Freakin' time travel ...

 

[Mirron]

Time travel is pretty silly. Thinking on it more, magic wielder who promotes to a magic stone + magic user would be really cool. Probably would get my pick for best Lord just based on that alone (assuming they're interesting as well personality-wise). I wish they'd bring back the Magic Trinity from 6/7/8 though.

 

[Hong]

Though, I'd personally have a female Barbarian and a male Dancer as leads. No regrets!! Too bad IS is so fixated on gender restricted classes :/

Why not? We got female Mercenaries. I suppose gender-locking classes is "traditional" for the series, but I don't really see it as necessary. I don't remember where I had seen it, but fans have made some awesome female Fighters.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The idea of a manakate Lord reminds me of Al from the manga Fire Emblem: Hasha no Tsurugi. He's the main character of the manga, who is part dragon and could promote to Dragon Lord.

 

[Hong]

Maybe the manakete Lord could sort of combine functions from throughout the series.

They are inherently the standard, classic, Well-rounded, but nothing too impressive.

But they have a metre like the Laguz, which raises when they engage in battle, and they can transform at will when it is full. To make it more challenging, make the metre decay if they avoid battle for a few turns, so it encourages you to finish chapters quickly.

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

Spoiler

Firstly, RD did a wonderful job at taking usual fantasy tropes about divinity, order and chaos and turning them on its head. It was pretty great.

Secondly, Manakete Morgan is nowhere close to 1/4 dragon. Morgan can be a Manakete if you marry Tiki or Nowi, in which case assuming Robin is 100% human, Morgan is half-dragon at worst. Then you take into account that Robin is THE GODDAMN FELL DRAGON GRIMA.

Which actually makes the most interesting origin for Morgan imaginable, especially if you marry Tiki. The offspring of the Divine Dragon's Voice and the Fell Dragon's incarnation? IS, you ****ing done goofed. There should be a secret support conversation just for that.

I know what pairing I'm going for my next play through.

Spoiler

But seriously. Tiki!Morgan is a beast in her own right. The way I see it, she could be 100% manakete and 50% human. Or just pure makakete.

Oi...Genetics. Gotta love'em.

 

[Croph]

Why not? We got female Mercenaries. I suppose gender-locking classes is "traditional" for the series, but I don't really see it as necessary. I don't remember where I had seen it, but fans have made some awesome female Fighters.

I personally think IS kinda dug themselves a hole with some of the gender-locked classes. Especially towards the more ridiculous ones, I question why we have these restrictions in the first place. At the very least, creating a personal Avatar shouldn't have such restrictions on what class he/she can change into.

I do think IS is doing a good job portraying both genders in terms of having equal power and especially in Awakening, I think it's a good step forward. In particular, I really like the additions of female Mercenaries and War Cleric (axe-wielding Lissa ftw!). I really like female axe-users, and I'd love to see female Berserkers in the future. However, like I said before, I do find some restrictions silly. Males can ride horses. Males can also use Staves. So why can't we have a male Troubadour? IS did try to justify Pegasus Knight being an only female class (and I know there are people that would rather have these restrictions), however, I do really think it's faulty. But seriously, who wouldn't want a trap Pegasus Knight? :3

Tbh, I was disappointed that Inigo couldn't become a Dancer (and I think IS missed a good opportunity to include a male Dancer). Dude has a passion for dancing and can't become a Dancer. Wut? Even if having two Dancers may break the game, there are plenty of ways to avoid problems and balance things out. In the end I don't really see any excuses.

Yeah, I'm just heartbroken that I could of potentially had a pink-haired male dancer... My dreams... crushed... Guys I may not recover form this. This... this scar may never heal!! Why would you do this to a poor gal, IS!? Whyyyy!!... Jk, jk. ;P

Sorry, I don't mean to make a huge deal about this or anything haha...

 

[UltimateWario]

Even if having two Dancers may break the game,

Simply disable the ability to use Dance on other Dancers. Really, balance isn't an issue in Awakening because, no matter what, you are going to ****ing roll through anyone in your way around the time you start promoting your dudes. Having two Dancers wouldn't really make the game any easier than it already is (at least on Normal).

I would be more inclined towards and interested in War Clerics if they didn't rely on the dumbest stat spread possible.

 

[Hong]

The key to War Clerics is to give them a Bolt Axe. This allows them to deal some of the most cost-efficient and consistent magic damage in the game. The axes are relatively cheap, accurate and only matched by top-tier tomes. Brady with Axe Faire, Galeforce and a Bolt Axe is a BEAST.

But seriously, who wouldn't want a trap Pegasus Knight? :3

100 times yes. I mean, if you put Soren, Rickard, Lucius or Libra on the back of a pegasus, I doubt they would even be able to tell the difference!

Tbh, I was disappointed that Inigo couldn't become a Dancer (and I think IS missed a good opportunity to include a male Dancer). Dude has a passion for dancing and can't become a Dancer. Wut? Even if having two Dancers may break the game, there are plenty of ways to avoid problems and balance things out. In the end I don't really see any excuses.

Yeah, I'm just heartbroken that I could of potentially had a pink-haired male dancer... My dreams... crushed... Guys I may not recover form this. This... this scar may never heal!! Why would you do this to a poor gal, IS!? Whyyyy!!... Jk, jk. ;P

I agree. Final Fantasy has shown that being a dancer does not have to be a gender-oriented pursuit. Also I was upset to find out that there is only one (?) way to get an Inigo with pink hair. :'(

Sorry, I don't mean to make a huge deal about this or anything haha...

Oh, your feelings are entirely reasonable.

Also, I noticed you have Isa in your signature. Does that make us best friends?

 

[Mirron]

I really don't like the gender locking of classes, it doesn't add anything really. I think the main issue is that there are just so many possible class combinations to though that it's kind of hard to imagine what else they could do in Fire Emblem. I just hope they bring back Soldier, was my favorite spear using class in Radiant Dawn. Not a fan of mounted units as much, and Knights are just too slow. Soldiers and such were really nice to watch with their weapons.

 

[UltimateWario]

While I liked Soldiers, Radiant Dawn's classes were much blander and less specialized than any of the other games' classes (I assume PoR was the same way).

Each weapon had an armor unit, standard unit, and mounted unit. You had your basic archer, your basic mages, and so on. All of the classes were so boring to me, which is one reason I didn't really care for the game (among plenty of other reasons). There were no Summoners, no Berserkers, no Rangers; there was one Assassin who was just a slightly different Whisper.

I'd like if they brought back Soldiers, gave them two units to promote into (or maybe let them promote into a paladin as the second choice), then gave the Halberdier some unique skills and stats to make it less of a generic unit.

I was talking to some fellow Emblemiers, and I brought up a concept for shield-bearing characters: What if characters who have shields, like the Soldier, had a chance to block damage in addition to dodging? Maybe block amount could be Str/2. This way, the focus on Soldier can be more of a soft-tank as they are now, but rely less on dodging. I think it would help to define the class.

This is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about.

 

[Hong]

I really don't like the gender locking of classes, it doesn't add anything really. I think the main issue is that there are just so many possible class combinations to though that it's kind of hard to imagine what else they could do in Fire Emblem. I just hope they bring back Soldier, was my favorite spear using class in Radiant Dawn. Not a fan of mounted units as much, and Knights are just too slow. Soldiers and such were really nice to watch with their weapons.

I liked Soldiers, as well.

Generally I run very minimalist compositions in Fire Emblem, consisting of the lord, a thief (for their talents), and 4-6 others. Soldier suits me better than General, because their better speed and mobility suits my aggressive pace.

I was talking to some fellow Emblemiers, and I brought up a concept for shield-bearing characters: What if characters who have shields, like the Soldier, had a chance to block damage in addition to dodging? Maybe block amount could be Str/2. This way, the focus on Soldier can be more of a soft-tank as they are now, but rely less on dodging. I think it would help to define the class.

 

[Hong]

While I liked Soldiers, Radiant Dawn's classes were much blander and less specialized than any of the other games' classes (I assume PoR was the same way).

Each weapon had an armor unit, standard unit, and mounted unit. You had your basic archer, your basic mages, and so on. All of the classes were so boring to me, which is one reason I didn't really care for the game (among plenty of other reasons). There were no Summoners, no Berserkers, no Rangers; there was one Assassin who was just a slightly different Whisper.

I'd like if they brought back Soldiers, gave them two units to promote into (or maybe let them promote into a paladin as the second choice), then gave the Halberdier some unique skills and stats to make it less of a generic unit.

The problem with RD is everyone's stats are too well-rounded. It is the consequence of having three tiers of promotions and irresponsible growth rates.

I actually don't like split-promotions, because the choices don't feel compelling enough. I don't feel like a number of class choices in FE8 and FE13 were necessary. Like Griffon Riders... Seriously? Also, the axe wielders lack definition, and Dark Flier probably didn't have to happen at any point ever.

How can you have all these redundant flying classes but fail to give any of them swords. Are you ****ing kidding me?

 

[Mirron]

I'd like three tiers and split promotion. Each character has four different endgame classes. *kidding* But I like split classes more than class changing myself. I felt like class changing kind of ruined a lot of what made characters unique. Was a bit worse in FE11, but 13 still wasn't as enjoyable due to that fact. I wouldn't mind skills returning and going through multiple paths, that's a bit more enjoyable to me.

 

[UltimateWario]

I actually don't like split-promotions, because the choices don't feel compelling enough. I don't feel like a number of class choices in FE8 and FE13 were necessary. Like Griffon Riders... Seriously? Also, the axe wielders lack definition, and Dark Flier probably didn't have to happen at any point ever.

This is by far the biggest problem with the mechanic, but that doesn't make the mechanic itself inherently bad. The choices need to just get better and more unique. I find singular promotion rather boring just because it makes for less customization within a single army. With split promotion, you can talk to others about what you promoted who into and how you're using it to support your army and such. With singular promotion it's more like "Oh, you're using -blank-, eh? Neat.".

That's just me, though, I guess, but I'll always prefer split promotion. The choices, as I said, need to have more to them rather than choosing a new weapon or a bigger stat boost.

About class changing, I think the idea should remain but be reigned in a bit, also maybe limit the number of skills people can learn by implementing a "tier" system, making different skills in higher tiers and only allowing a certain number of skills within a certain tier to be equipped (for example, GaleForce would be top-tier and you could only have one skill in that tier). Each character is still pretty unique with their own stat growths and stuff.

 

[Hong]

This is by far the biggest problem with the mechanic, but that doesn't make the mechanic itself inherently bad. The choices need to just get better and more unique. I find singular promotion rather boring just because it makes for less customization within a single army. With split promotion, you can talk to others about what you promoted who into and how you're using it to support your army and such. With singular promotion it's more like "Oh, you're using -blank-, eh? Neat.".

That's just me, though, I guess, but I'll always prefer split promotion. The choices, as I said, need to have more to them rather than choosing a new weapon or a bigger stat boost.

Yeah. I suppose it is not a matter of idea, so much as implementation.

At the very least I think they acknowledged this when they made the War Cleric. Prior to this, the character contrasts between the Sage and Bishop were minute, so at least we know they are trying.

About class changing, I think the idea should remain but be reigned in a bit, also maybe limit the number of skills people can learn by implementing a "tier" system, making different skills in higher tiers and only allowing a certain number of skills within a certain tier to be equipped (for example, GaleForce would be top-tier and you could only have one skill in that tier). Each character is still pretty unique with their own stat growths and stuff

I think FE10 had skills the best.

Honestly, if you take something like Galeforce, you shouldn't be allowed to take any of the activation-on-attack skills at all. If each character had like 25 Capacity, Galeforce should be 20. It is that powerful. They should also bring back some of the class-locked skills, like Canto on mounted characters and +x% critical where appropriate.

 

[Mirron]

I liked FE10's way of doing skills. I think that as you level in a class though unlocking a skill here or there works well. Kind of gives each class something at least, even if it isn't always that much. Galeforce is just silly though.

 

[Hong]

I liked FE10's way of doing skills. I think that as you level in a class though unlocking a skill here or there works well. Kind of gives each class something at least, even if it isn't always that much. Galeforce is just silly though.

Certainly.

A combination of skill scrolls and learned skills seems best. Also, I like there not being any penalty to adding or removing skills. Anything that encourages people to try as many classes and combinations as possible promotes greater product value.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Between Canto, Ike, a sensible skill system, BEXP, DRAGONLORDS and third tier classes, I will always consider Radiant Dawn to be the best Fire Emblem.

 

[loganhogan]

I liked Griffon Riders they looked cool, but I also want soldiers back.