You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[FlareHabanero]

Too bad Chrom's fate is to be the worst newcomer introduced in the series.

Well, maybe 5th, considering we still have Pichu, Dr. Mario, Young Link, and Toon Link.

 

[Niko Mar]

Too bad Chrom's fate is to be the worst newcomer introduced in the series.

Well, maybe 5th, considering we still have Pichu, Dr. Mario, Young Link, and Toon Link.

Geez dude I know you like Chrom, but you don't have to go all butt-buddy with him.

I'll just have to beat you with Chrom when Smash comes out so you'll stop praising him so much.

 

[Hong]

Shinon for Smash 4.

A character salty enough that Xenoblaze might have someone to relate to.

 

[Jaedrik]

Shinon for Smash 4.

A character salty enough that Xenoblaze might have someone to relate to.

Shots.

I still strongly dislike the possibility that Chrom might be in the next Smash.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Shots.

I still strongly dislike the possibility that Chrom might be in the next Smash.

Same, even though he's the most likely, the other options, to me just feel more worthwhile, to be honest.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I can understand not liking Chrom, but thinking he's unlikely because somebody doesn't like him is just silly.

 

[Hong]

Of course, everyone is entitled to their own belief, and I don't expect anyone to just like a character because I do. That said...

Characters like R.O.B. and Sonic do not disappoint me because of my feelings for the character. They disappoint me because the characters are weak offerings in terms of experience. It is not the character, but how they were implemented. It does not matter that they are Sonic or that they are R.O.B. It is how they could have been fun characters, and while some people enjoy the style, they could be SO MUCH more and add SO MUCH more to the overall experience. The factors that matter most like a few days after the game has been released: How they play.

There is no Fire Emblem character I dislike as a potential fighter. That would be largely unreasonable and a ****ty attitude. Then again the international audience is largely ignorant of how painful it was to not even see anything Fire Emblem in SSB64, and now that we have had three characters are spoiled up the arse beyond belief. And don't give me that rubbish that Chrom will be boring, redundant or too similar. The Fire Emblem characters thus far have had magnificent design, and there is still SO much more that they can do, even within the same weapon class. To those who think there is nothing else he could do; have you ever played like any game ever?

Personally, Chrom is not my favourite character by any means, but that doesn't mean I will be unreasonable about it.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Geez dude I know you like Chrom, but you don't have to go all butt-buddy with him.

I'll just have to beat you with Chrom when Smash comes out so you'll stop praising him so much.

I love Chrom as much as Gangrel, aka love watching Chrom get smashed in the face at every opportunity.

Also, nah, you'd get your ass handed to you. I ain't one of those Pikachu scrubs who spam Thunder.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I love Chrom as much as Gangrel, aka love watching Chrom get smashed in the face at every opportunity.

Also, nah, you'd get your *** handed to you. I ain't one of those Pikachu scrubs who spam Thunder.

Best. Gif. Ever.

 

[Hong]

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Nice sig, Hong.

 

[Niko Mar]

I love Chrom as much as Gangrel, aka love watching Chrom get smashed in the face at every opportunity.

Also, nah, you'd get your *** handed to you. I ain't one of those Pikachu scrubs who spam Thunder.

You can't hide your love, I know you secretly have a stiffy for him. Just because you have all that affection for Shulk, doesn't mean I can't see the attachment to Chrom my polyamorous friend.

Also, I'd like to see you live up to those words. I'm always up for a challenge.

Wait, did you always have that sig there you copycat you .

Lol at the pic though, "Quick take it down, SPOILERS SPFIOJJLSer!"

 

[FlareHabanero]

You can't hide your love, I know you secretly have a stiffy for him. Just because you have all that affection for Shulk, doesn't mean I can't see the attachment to Chrom my polyamorous friend.

Used to have the benefit of doubt a long time ago when the guy was fresh out of the oven, because you know he's got have some sort of merit. I mean you don't just gain an opinion without experience, that's just rash. However, after playing Fire Emblem: Awakening, yeah, he's a rather worthless addition. It's the equivalent of people begging for Ninten or Dark Pit, and that is yuck.

Also, I'd like to see you live up to those words. I'm always up for a challenge.

Hehe, maybe sometime.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

SSB4 prolly will have better online support. Can't wait, personally.

 

[Croph]

ITT: FE gifs.

Spoiler

/SHOT

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

^ And all I can think is "Marth's face really isn't out of place there ..."

 

[Jaedrik]

Of course, everyone is entitled to their own belief, and I don't expect anyone to just like a character because I do. That said...

Man is not entitled to anything, not that which he creates, not that which is given to him, especially not that which is others, and not even the sweat of his own brow nor the strain of his back. Besides, if he's straining his back, he's not using proper technique anyways.

I think it rational to dislike Chrom's possible inclusion in Smash simply because I do not wish to have, what in estimation will most likely be, another sword fighter, despite what could be done. This is an aesthetic preference, true.

 

[Hong]

ITT: FE gifs.

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

Too bad Chrom's fate is to be the worst newcomer introduced in the series.

Well, maybe 5th, considering we still have Pichu, Dr. Mario, Young Link, and Toon Link.

At least, Young Link was a faster and smaller version of Link, and Toon Link is his legitimate successor.
Not to mention some people like me prefer Link when he's younger.

I do agree with Dr. Mario and Pichu though.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Carrying this over from the Roy thread:

Chrom's design is based on Sigurd. He is made to look like Sigurd, Tiki says in her support with the avatar that he looks like Sigurd,

Spoiler

Tiki was talking about Anri, not Sigurd. Sigurd and Chrom aren't even blood related as far as we know.

and Awakening's entire story is based on that of FE4.

Except the time travel. And the lack of split generations. And Walhart. And....well....everything.

 

[FlareHabanero]

At least, Young Link was a faster and smaller version of Link, and Toon Link is his legitimate successor.

Still feels like a lazy addition, regardless of the mild troll logic Sakurai puts out regarding to a child Link.

Not to mention some people like me prefer Link when he's younger.

Shotacon.

 

[Commander]

Carrying this over from the Roy thread:

Spoiler

Except the time travel. And the lack of split generations. And Walhart. And....well....everything.

I really should be the one posting that image. FE4 was the first FE to have split generations; that's where the idea of it came from for Awakening. It was also the first to have supports, the myrmidon class, skills, and even the weapon triangle comes from FE4. I can tell you for a fact that Awakening is just FE4 with time traveling kids. The kids in FE4 weren't as lucky.
Here is the story of FE4

Spoiler

Once upon a time there was a a happy go lucky good guy who went around beating up bad guys. His name was (Sigurd, Chrom). One day some bad guys (Validar, the Lopto) wanted to resurrect a dark dragon named (Grima, Loptyr). The good guy failed to stop the bad guys and it was up to their children, (Seliph, Lucina), to say the day.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Yeah I was gonna say ... Awakening is kind of a FE4 rip off when it comes to mechanics. I don't know about the story because I want to play FE4 at some point in the future, so I didn't look it up.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

FE4 was the first FE to have split generations; that's where the idea of it came from for Awakening.

This much is true.

It was also the first to have supports,

Not really. For starters, FE3 had bond supports(permanent, predefined supports between two characters). And the modern support system as we know it didn't come in to being until FE6.

the myrmidon class,

Ahem.

Not to mention that Myrmidons didn't become a separate/distinct entity from Mercenaries until FE6.

skills, and even the weapon triangle comes from FE4..

Technically Gaiden had something resembling skills(with Falcon Knights having the Slayer ability), but I'll give you that. Not sure what either of those have to do with making FE13 unquestionably based on FE4. Where are the big-a** maps FE4 is known for? Where are the multiple types of magic? What about Holy Blood? Where is the ridiculously limiting(but necessary) inventory system? What about the unique leveling/promotion system? FE13 doesn't really take any more from FE4 than it does from any other game, except possibly the Akaneia games.

I would tell you the story of FE4 but I don't know how to make spoiler tags right now.

Don't bother. I've actually played FE4.
Edit: For the record, you make spoiler tags like this:
[ spoiler ] Spoiler text here [ /spoiler ]
Without the spaces

 

[Hong]

I really should be the one posting that image. FE4 was the first FE to have split generations; that's where the idea of it came from for Awakening. It was also the first to have supports, the myrmidon class, skills, and even the weapon triangle comes from FE4. I would tell you the story of FE4 but I don't know how to make spoiler tags right now. I can tell you for a fact that Awakening is just FE4 with time traveling kids. The kids in FE4 weren't as lucky.

Gameplay elements and story are two completely different aspects of a product. The story of FE13 is drastically different from FE4, even for Fire Emblem standards.

It is night and day. At best it brought back the hereditary system, but the implementation and its relevance to the plot is complete different. The children, with the exception of Lucina, do not function as a plot direction or replacement. They are entirely supplementary and voluntary; the average player won't even see all of the kids on the first playthrough.

FE4, on the other hand, is literally called the Genealogy of the Holy War for a reason. Heritage was a CORE gameplay element. You don't have a choice. The game goes out with the old, in with the new. Sigurd and his company is swept under a rug, and you get some replacements whether you like them or not.

And even if you wanted to bring in gameplay elements, FE13 is drastically different from the rest of the series. The pair up system is one change that changes EVERYTHING. You can deliberately try hard enough to never let your units come within a cell of each other, but there is no denying that the game is DESIGNED for it. It begins and it ends with the dual support system. It took what FE4 began long ago, and uses it in a way that nothing else has even come close to doing.

Not to mention the game has completely different progression (IE open world, grinding, optional chapters, etc.), the outrealm and everything that comes with it, class change and branching, and modernized calculations.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Just FYI, Awakening isn't any harder without Pair Up. [Barring Apotheosis and Lunatic+.] On Lunatic there are several initial levels where you fear for the life of everyone and regret ever picking the game up, but then you get into the old familiar "Lol bop stuff with overlevelled units". Sigh.

 

[Commander]

Gameplay elements and story are two completely different aspects of a product. The story of FE13 is drastically different from FE4, even for Fire Emblem standards.

It is night and day. At best it brought back the hereditary system, but the implementation and its relevance to the plot is complete different. The children, with the exception of Lucina, do not function as a plot direction or replacement. They are entirely supplementary and voluntary; the average player won't even see all of the kids on the first playthrough.

FE4, on the other hand, is literally called the Genealogy of the Holy War for a reason. Heritage was a CORE gameplay element. You don't have a choice. The game goes out with the old, in with the new. Sigurd and his company is swept under a rug, and you get some replacements whether you like them or not.

And even if you wanted to bring in gameplay elements, FE13 is drastically different from the rest of the series. The pair up system is one change that changes EVERYTHING. You can deliberately try hard enough to never let your units come within a cell of each other, but there is no denying that the game is DESIGNED for it. It begins and it ends with the dual support system. It took what FE4 began long ago, and uses it in a way that nothing else has even come close to doing.

Not to mention the game has completely different progression (IE open world, grinding, optional chapters, etc.), the outrealm and everything that comes with it, class change and branching, and modernized calculations.

Gameplay elements and story are two completely different aspects of a product. The story of FE13 is drastically different from FE4, even for Fire Emblem standards.

It is night and day. At best it brought back the hereditary system, but the implementation and its relevance to the plot is complete different. The children, with the exception of Lucina, do not function as a plot direction or replacement. They are entirely supplementary and voluntary; the average player won't even see all of the kids on the first playthrough.

FE4, on the other hand, is literally called the Genealogy of the Holy War for a reason. Heritage was a CORE gameplay element. You don't have a choice. The game goes out with the old, in with the new. Sigurd and his company is swept under a rug, and you get some replacements whether you like them or not.

And even if you wanted to bring in gameplay elements, FE13 is drastically different from the rest of the series. The pair up system is one change that changes EVERYTHING. You can deliberately try hard enough to never let your units come within a cell of each other, but there is no denying that the game is DESIGNED for it. It begins and it ends with the dual support system. It took what FE4 began long ago, and uses it in a way that nothing else has even come close to doing.

Not to mention the game has completely different progression (IE open world, grinding, optional chapters, etc.), the outrealm and everything that comes with it, class change and branching, and modernized calculations.

The story changes when Lucina decided to travel back in time. Up until that point the story is the same in its major details with Chrom dieing and the second generation having to go on without their parents.
FE13 isn't meant to be a carbon copy of FE4 but it i supposed to reference it heavily through its story and it does, down to the point that Chrom is made to look like Sigurd.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Spoiler

Once upon a time there was a a happy go lucky good guy who went around beating up bad guys. His name was (Sigurd, Chrom). One day some bad guys (Validar, the Lopto) wanted to resurrect a dark dragon named (Grima, Loptyr). The good guy failed to stop the bad guys and it was up to their children, (Seliph, Lucina), to say the day.

This comparison is wrong in so many ways. If you simplify the plot of any FE game that much, you can make pretty much any game sound the same.
[collapse="Example"]Once there was a prince who was the descendant of an ancient hero(Marth, Chrom). He had a sister who made a great sacrifice for his benefit/safety(Elice/Emmeryn). The prince went to war with another country, but it turned out that the leader of that country(Haradin, Gangrel) was being manipulated by a sorceror(Gharnef, Validar) no bring about the resurrection of an evil dragon(Medeus, Grima)[/collapse]
Now of course I cut out a lot of stuff from each game to make them fit my comparison, but that's my point. almost any two stories can be compared if you simplify them enough and choose your words carefully.

Never mind the fact that Chrom didn't "fail to stop the bad guys." He's still kicking by the end of the game.

And again, it simplifies the plot so much that you cut out almost all of the interesting stuff in the game. What's the FE13 equivalent of all the stuff with Thracia/Manster in FE4? What about the Augustria plot in the first generation? What about Quan, and Lewyn, and Shanan, and all the other characters in FE4 that you forgot because they don't fit your comparison?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Don't ask me why, but lately I've been thinking of how cool exactly magic and weapon combined classes are. Didn't play Awakening, mind you, but I totally love ideas for classes as Dread Fighter and Dark Pegasus. Thought of a Thief / Shaman mix myself to yesterday, think that would be an awesome combination.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

FE13 isn't meant to be a carbon copy of FE4 but it i supposed to reference it heavily through its story and it does, down to the point that Chrom is made to look like Sigurd.

Spoiler

Spoiler

I don't see it.

Edit: and before you bring it up, let me remind you that in her support with M!Avatar, she was talking about Anri.

 

[Commander]

This comparison is wrong in so many ways. If you simplify the plot of any FE game that much, you can make pretty much any game sound the same.
[collapse="Example"]Once there was a prince who was the descendant of an ancient hero(Marth, Chrom). He had a sister who made a great sacrifice for his benefit/safety(Elice/Emmeryn). The prince went to war with another country, but it turned out that the leader of that country(Haradin, Gangrel) was being manipulated by a sorceror(Gharnef, Validar) no bring about the resurrection of an evil dragon(Medeus, Grima)[/collapse]
Now of course I cut out a lot of stuff from each game to make them fit my comparison, but that's my point. almost any two stories can be compared if you simplify them enough and choose your words carefully.

Never mind the fact that Chrom didn't "fail to stop the bad guys." He's still kicking by the end of the game.

And again, it simplifies the plot so much that you cut out almost all of the interesting stuff in the game. What's the FE13 equivalent of all the stuff with Thracia/Manster in FE4? What about the Augustria plot in the first generation? What about Quan, and Lewyn, and Shanan, and all the other characters in FE4 that you forgot because they don't fit your comparison?

Chrom does fail. In the very first moment of the game you watch him die with a lightning bolt through his chest. The entire parent generation was killed before the game started and then Lucina changed that with her time travel. My argument wasn't that FE13 is a total copy of FE4, but that it borrows a significant amount from it and Chrom is extremely similar to Sigurd.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

FE13 doesn't borrow any more from FE4 than it does from any other FE game.

Considering that FE13 is supposed to be a celebration of the series up to that point, it shouldn't be surprising that it takes notes from the pages of almost every other FE game. From the non-linear progression of FE2/8, reclassing from FE11/12, the branching promotions from FE8, inheritance from FE4, and it's own take on skills(which have been in more games than FE4 FYI).

Now for this alleged Chrom-Sigurd connection: You've just kept saying "Chrom and Sigurd are similar" without backing it up. The only thing you're mentioned is that they both died at one point and had kids. does that make Hector a Sigurd expy as well?

If we're being honest, much like how FE13 is an amalgamation of plot and gameplay elements of older FE games, Chrom is an amalgamation of old FE protagonists. While the most notable character he takes inspiration from Marth and Ike, it's not surprising that he might take a few cues from other protagonists.

 

[Shotguner159]

Edit: and before you bring it up, let me remind you that in her support with M!Avatar, she was talking about Anri.

She can't be. She says Chrom is like someone 1000 years before Marth, and Marth was born only 52 years after Anri died.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

She can't be. She says Chrom is like someone 1000 years before Marth, and Marth was born only 52 years after Anri died.

[citation needed]

You make it sound like Marth was Anri's grandson or something.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Anri didn't even had children, his brother carried on the heroes legacy.

 

[Shotguner159]

http://serenesforest.net/general/timeline.html#fe3
http://serenesforest.net/general/age.html#fe11

Serenes Forest has timeline and age pages for the games. Anri died in 537, and Shadow Dragon's chapter 1 takes place in 604, and the age page says Marth's around 16 then.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

http://serenesforest.net/general/timeline.html#fe3
http://serenesforest.net/general/age.html#fe11

Serenes Forest has timeline and age pages for the games. Anri died in 537, and Shadow Dragon's chapter 1 takes place in 604, and the age page says Marth's around 16 then.

Fair enough. So it isn't referring to Anri.

Edit: I'll concede this point, the Tiki convo probably is meant to imply that Chrom is descended from Sigurd in some form. Still, I have to wonder how/why exactly someone of the Baldur line left Jugdral to go to Akaneia.

 

[Shotguner159]

Nope. And since Sigurd was on Jugdral, how would Tiki know about him, since she would be both on a different continent and under an enchanted sleep?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Nope. And since Sigurd was on Jugdral, how would Tiki know about him, since she would be both on a different continent and under an enchanted sleep?

Sigurd/Seliph are literally the only characters that Tiki could possibly be referring to(at least, that we know of) given the timeframe she mentions.

And Tiki could have heard about Sigurd from Forseti.

Edit: Though thinking on it, it's possible she was talking about Ike as well, which could explain how Chrom can learn Aether. Honestly the "another man from their line" is really ambiguous and it's really up to the viewer to decide who Tiki is referring to.

 

[Hong]

So how about dat ?

Please tell me I am not the only one who never wants Jason Adkins as Ike ever again. It was funny for three games, but maybe someone else now? :D Nintendo has become so good at finding voice talent in the past few years. I think they nailed Priam down pretty well, and wouldn't mind if they brought Jamieson Price in to voice Ike for Smash 4. Nice and beefy voice, suitable for what will hopefully be an updated, older Ike.