Yoshi Social-20 years of Yoshi's Island!

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

send them :D

 

[YoHeKing]

send them :D

I send game 2 and game 3. While game 1 was still close I died at 50% on both stocks because I played like crap lmao

Edit: Game 3 I almost got rektd.

 

[Delta-cod]

Send all the games. Don't be that guy who only sends the wins!

 

[YoHeKing]

Send all the games. Don't be that guy who only sends the wins!

Alright.

Edit:I think I might be going to endgame. A big tourney in AZ. And well the only think I won't be looking forward to is possible yoshi dittos. Theres like 6 yoshi mains tho which is good. Ill just be very disapointed if theres a Yoshi ditto. Anyone know any tips for the Yoshi ditto other then play patient?

 

[Delta-cod]

Just abuse all the stuff we know doesn't actually work and is unsafe. That gets you to beat all the Yoshis who are bad. For non-frauds, just outplay them. Abuse Yoshi's weaknesses, lol

 

[YoHeKing]

Just abuse all the stuff we know doesn't actually work and is unsafe. That gets you to beat all the Yoshis who are bad. For non-frauds, just outplay them. Abuse Yoshi's weaknesses, lol

I noticed that but I really didn't think of It as a counter. Lol Wouldn't playing like a fruad also beat pro Yoshis too? I still don't know a single Yoshi I can beat in dittos but I know only 1 sheik that has seriously beaten me... Ill throw in some side Bs, Down B for unsafe landings, Dash attacks everywhere, get alot of standing grabs and not pivot or dash grabs, stay in shield alot, air dodge spam, use a ton of missed up air and last... roll away from everything possibly dangerous or roll away to space good.

Im kidding but does it seriously work to do that? Thats how I feel I get beaten by fruad Yoshis. I'm guessing staying in shield is a good way. I never really shield against Yoshi. I found out not to long ago you can get a 3+ hit of up smash strings by using a dash right after you hit one. They just nair till they realize that they are actually not breaking a combo. Then they try fair or down B and you still hit them.

Funny thing is im not even kidding about that. Yoshi frauds just using him because they think hes OP or something seriously abuse nair thinking it breaks everything every single time. Its good to get in peoples heads like that so they think your going to nair each time your combo'd but they really don't do that.

 

[CourageHound]

Anyone advice or experience on how to go about fighting Greninja?
The Mu feels incredibly hard.

 

[YoHeKing]

Anyone advice or experience on how to go about fighting Greninja?
The Mu feels incredibly hard.

It seems pretty hard. You can get use to It though. I have a freind named Degerix and his greninja is boss. He plays offline tourneys.

Really though the only way to actually get good at fighting a really good greninja In the yoshi MU is to fight it yourself. Its because people rarely come across good greninjas. I know alot of the MU tricks but I can go into detail later. Im pretty busy atm.

 

[Delta-cod]

Im kidding but does it seriously work to do that? Thats how I feel I get beaten by fruad Yoshis. I'm guessing staying in shield is a good way. I never really shield against Yoshi. I found out not to long ago you can get a 3+ hit of up smash strings by using a dash right after you hit one. They just nair till they realize that they are actually not breaking a combo. Then they try fair or down B and you still hit them.

I did this several times to people during the Yoshi Ditto Extravaganza. It's totally legit against players who really don't understand the flaws of Yoshi. Against good players it might work once, but I wouldn't count on it being consistent after the first time.

Also look for abuse of SHET and FHET, and punish it as you know it can be punished. A lot of people I know think SHET is broken and amazing pressure, yadda yadda, and don't seem to realize just how easy it is to punish (run under, free punish).

I've got no advice on Greninja. That character is wonky and I don't have any real theory about him. =/

 

[CourageHound]

I've got no advice on Greninja. That character is wonky and I don't have any real theory about him. =/

Thanks anyway.

It's just, i feel like he puts on the same pressure say Captain Falcon or Fox does while also have an abusable projectile. Thant and his small frame is really awkard to try and play around.

 

[YoHeKing]

Greninja is a rare MU. I know it but its really weird to explain. His frame data is not the best but its really not his frame data that makes him so good. Good greninjas can do 60% true combos just from a nair. Theres really no way out of any of his combos besides DI but that really dosn't faze greninjas.

You can tech greninjas up air spike so thats a goood thing to learn in the MU since he can kinda kill you from a combo at 60% unless you learn to tech his up air.

Learn the shadow sneak timing. That will help ALOT. Challange it all you want unless at kill percents. Make sure they can't go behind you though. Nair normally stops his shadow sneak. Dash attack always works to but a good greninja knows how to sneak in a shadow sneak without you realizing. They can jump, double jump or even taunt while charging shadow sneak and cancel the jump or taunt so don't be tricked. Don't let them fool you with walking to. Just because there walking away doesn't mean there charging up shadow sneak... I learned the hard way lol.

A good greninja doesn't charge neutral B all the way. Don't expect them to charge it all the way because most of the time they just use the shorter version. Its kinda like luigis fireball but with a bit more knockback and it allows followups.

I wouldn't play patiently against greninja anyways. Its good to actually punish his jumpings with eggs, nair and fair.

For counter picks. Don't take him to stages like duck hunt, wii fit omega, punch out omega.

How did I do @ Degerix

 

[Sinister Slush]

Good Greninja's barely use shadow sneak and just use their great combo game for 30+% or even a kill.
The diversity in Greninja's kit allows him to have a plethora of kill moves from 2 or 4 different moves if he reads the opponent correctly.
Like say Nair at around 80ish %, he can prolly chase afterwards to hit with fair Shadowsneak or even ty and guess that they DI'd down and he just does a running Usmash.

 

[Degerix]

Greninja is a rare MU. I know it but its really weird to explain. His frame data is not the best but its really not his frame data that makes him so good. Good greninjas can do 60% true combos just from a nair. Theres really no way out of any of his combos besides DI but that really dosn't faze greninjas.

You can tech greninjas up air spike so thats a goood thing to learn in the MU since he can kinda kill you from a combo at 60% unless you learn to tech his up air.

Learn the shadow sneak timing. That will help ALOT. Challange it all you want unless at kill percents. Make sure they can't go behind you though. Nair normally stops his shadow sneak. Dash attack always works to but a good greninja knows how to sneak in a shadow sneak without you realizing. They can jump, double jump or even taunt while charging shadow sneak and cancel the jump or taunt so don't be tricked. Don't let them fool you with walking to. Just because there walking away doesn't mean there charging up shadow sneak... I learned the hard way lol.

A good greninja doesn't charge neutral B all the way. Don't expect them to charge it all the way because most of the time they just use the shorter version. Its kinda like luigis fireball but with a bit more knockback and it allows followups.

I wouldn't play patiently against greninja anyways. Its good to actually punish his jumpings with eggs, nair and fair.

For counter picks. Don't take him to stages like duck hunt, wii fit omega, punch out omega.

How did I do @ Degerix

Yep @ YoHeKing ! Here are my insights on the rare Greninja vs. Yoshi matchup (as a Greninja main):

Two big parts of Greninja's battle strategy is to dodge attacks with his short hop so he can punish with a Short Hop Fast-Fall NAir to get in a sweet combo and using his Water Shuriken to keep the opponent guessing and baited.

I'm not sure if Greninja's FAir or Yoshi's FAir has the longer reach. A well-spaced FAir is a good approach option for Greninja due to shield pressure, range, and possibly pushback.

Yoshi's counters against a Greninja (based on my experiences from fighting YoHeKing) are:
-Yoshi's NAir may be able to cancel out an unsuspected Shadow Sneak since it takes a while for Greninja to actually attack.
-Since short hops are SO good for Greninja, people that main him jump a lot with him. If Yoshi can figure out the movement patterns of Greninja, he'll have an upper hand since he can... sayy.. for example, anticipate a jump and punish with an Up Smash. I've lost plenty of matches against YoHeKing since he anticipated a jump from me.
-PRETTY IMPORTANT ONE: Try your best to avoid getting hit by Greninja's Nair! It's among Greninja's best combo starters. Also, I'm pretty sure you Yoshi players are familiar with Greninja's insane combo potential with footstools and jab locks. Yoshi is amongst the characters those combos are easiest to execute on.
-Greninja's Hydro Pump can be troublesome for Yoshi if used correctly. May not be as effective on Yoshi as it is on most characters, but Greninja can still use Hydro Pump as a way to reposition or disrupt Yoshi's recovery into a bad spot for dangerous attacks such as a FAir or Up Smash.

Greninja is one of those characters that is weird and unique in the roster so you have to fight him differently from how you fight a character like Mario, Luigi, and Captain Falcon.
That's all I've got!

 

[Xandercosm]

Joining in on this Yoshi discussion:

I agree that Yoshi has trouble with Greninja. I haven't played many battles against Greninja, myself, but the times I have, have been tough. Maybe down air after air dodge?

 

[Degerix]

Joining in on this Yoshi discussion:

I agree that Yoshi has trouble with Greninja. I haven't played many battles against Greninja, myself, but the times I have, have been tough. Maybe down air after air dodge?

I'll add to the conversation later. I've got some important business to finish.

 

[YoHeKing]

Good Greninja's barely use shadow sneak and just use their great combo game for 30+% or even a kill.
The diversity in Greninja'skit allows him to have a plethora of kill moves from 2 or 4 different moves if he reads the opponent correctly.
Like say Nair at around 80ish %, he can prolly chase afterwards to hit with fair Shadowsneak or even ty and guess that they DI'd down and he just does a running Usmash.

Yup. Good greninjas use shadow sneak when you least espect it. Degerix is probably the only few greninjas I know that doesn't abuse it but its kinda funny how the start up is just enough to react to (well for me).

Also greninja has ALOT of kill set ups and combo starters. Down air, counter(yes it does have a kill set up and combo starter) nair, fair, up air, footstool, grab, down tilt, up tilt, charged neutral B, up throw and forward throw are all combo setups and/or kill set ups.

Nair is a serious problem in the MU though. Theres like no way Yoshi can punish well used nairs unless he gets a read before it comes out. It has really low lag and can combo Yoshi hard at low percents. Since Yoshi can't break most of greninjas combos hes like CF when it comes to combos.

Also greninja has pretty good tools against Yoshi when they hit his sheild. He actually has a good enough dash grab to punish fair and nair landings mostly because of the range in most cases.

You really can't play patiently in the MU though. Greninja actually can camp Yoshi from what I hear and see.

I forgot to mention Greninjas kill set ups work diffrently on Yoshi. Nair actually doesn't combo into a up smash at high percents or kill percents. Really only works around low percents with correct DI.

For a very odd reason Greninja can't kill set up a Yoshi like many other characters he fights. Possibly because heavy+floaty and fast. Just be aware that he can get massive damage on you pretty quick.

 

[Degerix]

Okay I'm done with what I had to take care of so I can put down some more points.

Yup. Good greninjas use shadow sneak when you least espect it. Degerix is probably the only few greninjas I know that doesn't abuse it but its kinda funny how the start up is just enough to react to (well for me).

Also greninja has ALOT of kill set ups and combo starters. Down air, counter(yes it does have a kill set up and combo starter) nair, fair, up air, footstool, grab, down tilt, up tilt, charged neutral B, up throw and forward throw are all combo setups and/or kill set ups.

Nair is a serious problem in the MU though. Theres like no way Yoshi can punish well used nairs unless he gets a read before it comes out. It has really low lag and can combo Yoshi hard at low percents. Since Yoshi can't break most of greninjas combos hes like CF when it comes to combos.

Also greninja has pretty good tools against Yoshi when they hit his sheild. He actually has a good enough dash grab to punish fair and nair landings mostly because of the range in most cases.

You really can't play patiently in the MU though. Greninja actually can camp Yoshi from what I hear and see.

I forgot to mention Greninjas kill set ups work diffrently on Yoshi. Nair actually doesn't combo into a up smash at high percents or kill percents. Really only works around low percents with correct DI.

For a very odd reason Greninja can't kill set up a Yoshi like many other characters he fights. Possibly because heavy+floaty and fast. Just be aware that he can get massive damage on you pretty quick.

Shadow Sneak cuts down Greninja's ground and air mobility. If you have good reactions and learn how he moves, you can prevent a sneak attack from being successful on most Greninja's. As for trickier ones, it's pretty much a matter of guessing.

I'm PRETTY sure Yoshi can punish Greninja's NAir with his jab after he blocks it. May not be much damage but everything counts in a fight. Greninja's NAir and FAir have plenty of start up so there's plenty of time to react accordingly. Greninja's NAir may have low end lag (if it's grounded) but it has low priority and doesn't work like Mario, Yoshi, Link, and Fox's NAir.

Greninja's grab has deceptive properties. It can catch opponents as they're jumping and at weird distances. However, it's slower than most grabs. I'm pretty sure Yoshi can work around that.

 

[Delta-cod]

Would you guys mind continuing this in a MU thread? It'll make it easier for people to find in the future.

http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-discussion-greninja.413828/

 

[Sinister Slush]

Maybe I should start up the MU discussions once I quit for a few months at the end of August.

 

[Delta-cod]

I don't think having a consistent schedule is too useful at this point, still. I think we're better off doing them on a need basis. There are so many characters and not much to say about most of them, so I'm fine with people making a thread for one/bumping one in the event they need advice on the MU or want to give advice for others.

Otherwise we'll probably end up with like, 43 empty threads and a few with any real information.

 

[YoHeKing]

I don't think having a consistent schedule is too useful at this point, still. I think we're better off doing them on a need basis. There are so many characters and not much to say about most of them, so I'm fine with people making a thread for one/bumping one in the event they need advice on the MU or want to give advice for others.

Otherwise we'll probably end up with like, 43 empty threads and a few with any real information.

43 empty threads? Im pretty sure Id have one comment on all of them xD

Altho I admit not all my info is 100% correct. I just write down what works for me.

 

[Xandercosm]

I'll add to the conversation later. I've got some important business to finish.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Micaelis]

Figured I'd say hello to everyone on here so you guys can know who I am a bit better.

Hi! My name is Michael and my tag is Micaelis. I'm 25, work a full time job as a Computer Engineer, live in Georgia, and recently got engaged!

I've been playing Smash competitively since 2009, starting with Brawl. I have been ranked Top 10 in GA since my start; frequently making Top 5 later in my career. At the time I mained solo Wario. As for Sm4sh, I started as a Rosaluma player but recently realized that Yoshi is the embodiment of what I love to do in Smash in this game so I've switched and have been solely focusing on him now for a couple of months to great success.

I'm currently ranked #10 on the Georgia PR. This is mostly due to my lack of attendance to tournaments sadly, mixed with not having found Yoshi yet. My overall performance has improved drastically with Yoshi so I'm looking forward to see what I can accomplish with him in the future. For now I find it a bit difficult to make it out to tournaments due to my job and recent engagement but I'm still working towards becoming better and representing Yoshi the best I can.

/endhistory

 

[Xandercosm]

Figured I'd say hello to everyone on here so you guys can know who I am a bit better.

Hi! My name is Michael and my tag is Micaelis. I'm 25, work a full time job as a Computer Engineer, live in Georgia, and recently got engaged!

I've been playing Smash competitively since 2009, starting with Brawl. I have been ranked Top 10 in GA since my start; frequently making Top 5 later in my career. At the time I mained solo Wario. As for Sm4sh, I started as a Rosaluma player but recently realized that Yoshi is the embodiment of what I love to do in Smash in this game so I've switched and have been solely focusing on him now for a couple of months to great success.

I'm currently ranked #10 on the Georgia PR. This is mostly due to my lack of attendance to tournaments sadly, mixed with not having found Yoshi yet. My overall performance has improved drastically with Yoshi so I'm looking forward to see what I can accomplish with him in the future. For now I find it a bit difficult to make it out to tournaments due to my job and recent engagement but I'm still working towards becoming better and representing Yoshi the best I can.

/endhistory

Cool! I think Yoshi is a great character to quickly pick up and get good at. He's got some pretty great tactics which is why I play him as well. Best of luck!

 

[YoHeKing]

I did alot of experimenting with yoshis side tilts(angled) and there alot better then everyone thinks. They can combo into each other, set up tech chases, set up jab locks, frame traps and has a kill set ups...

Its seriously one of our better moves but it seems so unused and unexplored.
I think the only problem is that people would rather punish with an egg or something that seems faster or use a dash attack. But I think yoshis forward tilt is defiantly worth it once you understand it.

 

[Delta-cod]

If you did a write up on Ftilt and it's possible uses I think you'd be able to get everyone on board with your idea better.

 

[YoHeKing]

First of all... Compare forward tilt to the rest of the moves can punish with/most people punish with because there pretty fast.
Dash Attack
Frame 10-12: 9% 90b/ 52g 5°
Frame 13-20: 6% 90b/ 52g 65°
Duration: 49
Up Smash / UpSmash / U-Smash / Usmash
Smash charge window on frame 8
Frame 11-13: 14% 37b/95g 75°
Frame 14-16: 12% 37b/95g 75°
Begins partial invincibility on frame 11
Ends partial invincibility on frame 14
Duration: 46

Enables state transition on real frame 4
Frame 15: Angle determined
Duration: 53

Neutral Air / N-Air / Nair
Frame 3- 4: 10% 40b/ 86g 361°
Frame 5-11: 7% 30b/100g 361°
Frame 12-25: 5% 30b/100g 361°
TotalDamage: 10%
Enables transition to Nair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 3
Cancels transition to Nair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 38
Landing Lag: 11
Duration: 44

Forward Smash / F-Smash / FSmash / Side Smash (normal)
Frame 14-14: 15.5% 30b/ 98g 361°
Frame 14-14: 14% 30b/ 97g 361°
Frame 14-14: 13% 30b/ 97g 361°
Duration: 52

If you noticed the duration is pretty high and they don't give out many options afterwards.
Nair really isn't the best way to punish due to jump lag unless your using it as you land.
Up smash is actually not that bad because nothing can really challenge it from above.

Compare with ftilt

Forward Tilt / F-Tilt / Ftilt
Frame 5- 7: 7% 50b/ 80g 50°
Frame 5- 7: 7% 50b/ 80g 65°
Frame 5- 7: 7% 50b/ 80g 80°
Duration: 38

Now look how much faster the frame data is. Its even almost just likes sheiks side tilt but just a bit more end lag. Its double the damage though if angled. Not only that but he Yoshi can pivot side tilt which makes it so much better then the other options. Also why would you want to stall up smash, forward smash or any other move when you can stall a forward tilt. High level players actually use forward tilts for punishing to. Nairos ZSS, ZeRos Diddy, Esams Pika(alot), good CFs use forward tilt also. If you think about it though... Our forward tilt is possibly better other then range like ZSS and CF.

Now lets talk about the mechanics.

Up smash, Forward smash, Nair and dash attack really don't set up 50/50 chance situation or even combos/effective strings like ftilt. Keep in mind Yoshi can use multiple ftilts as a combo on some characters. Ftilt can set up jab lock situation under platforms or even not under them. Hitting at the tip or middle of the tail can actually make people land on the floor much easier for down air jab resets(I wouldn't really count on this at high level play though unless used with platforms).

I would try pivot forward tilts hitting the back side to do a 50/50 follow up and possible kill set up. Tip and middle for spacing. Forward tilt for egglay setups like perfect pivot into forward tilt to be safe so you cant get hit afterward. You could even go for a double forward tilt after egg lay and still attempt a follow up after.

Now lets talk about forward tilts safety.

Yoshis forward tilt unbelievably cancels out the craziest moves without taking a hit. Including marths side smash, Ness' side smash, bowsers side tilt, and even a lot of projectiles like loids, missles and even villagers tree falling and villagers bowling ball no matter how close you are(it can go through you after. And totally unharmed). Yoshis forward tilt is definitely safe on a lot of moves.

But is it safe on shield? The answer is no. But it is a lot more safe then most other options.

I was kinda in a rush btw. Sorry if I made any errors.

Edit: Yoshis side tilt can cancel out bob-ombs and bananas.

 

[YoshiYoshi]

I like Yoshi's forward tilt. I do jab1 > f-tilt sometimes, and it's good to hear options for following up after it.

I'd like to know what the effective percentages for each character with good DI jab1 into various follow-ups can be effective (it seems as though anything is possible after jab1). Sometimes I feel like they're true combos but other times people slips away or jab me back.

I feel like the walking f-tilt is underrated. Sometimes a frame ten dash is slightly too slow to hit someone just out of range, but take a tiny step forward and f-tilt and makes a punish. Definitely not a viable approach though.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, from the moment of pressing Jump > Attack out of shield, how many frames does it take for the Nair to come out (I hear of this jump lag?)

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Let's compare some Ftilts to see just how close Yoshi's are compared to others.

character|hit frames|FAF
Yoshi|5-7|39
Sheik|5-8|25
ZSS|6-8|29
Diddy|10-13|37
Pika|6-8|30
Falcon|9-11|32

What you can notice here is that Sheik is really dumb All of them have less endlag and are less of a commitment when whiffed or blocked (I'll give you the fact that Yoshi's is quick though).

ok so lets compare reach:
These Ftilts reach farther than Yoshi's: Sheik, ZSS, Diddy, Pikachu (literally Pikachu's wtf), Falcon

ohhhh

Yoshis forward tilt unbelievably cancels out the craziest moves without taking a hit. Including marths side smash, Ness' side smash, bowsers side tilt, and even a lot of projectiles like loids, missles and even villagers tree falling and villagers bowling ball no matter how close you are(it can go through you after. And totally unharmed). Yoshis forward tilt is definitely safe on a lot of moves.

None of those are crazy things to cancel out (and no Bob-ombs don't work)


Let's compare it to some of Yoshi's good options:
move|hit frames|FAF
Ftilt|6-8|39
Jab1|3-4|18
Jab2|3-4|21
Dtilt|8-10|23 (hnnng)
Utilt|8-15|32

As far as reach goes Ftilt (barely) reaches farther than Jab1 and Utilt.

And finally all of those options have legitimate setups as opposed to Ftilt:
jab1 > Kill move
Jab2 > tech chase
Dtilt > edgeuard situation
Utilt > up air which is a true combo in some cases and a 50:50 in others unlike Ftilt.




Ftilt is butt

 

[YoHeKing]

Let's compare some Ftilts to see just how close Yoshi's are compared to others.

character|hit frames|FAF
Yoshi|5-7|39
Sheik|5-8|25
ZSS|6-8|29
Diddy|10-13|37
Pika|6-8|30
Falcon|9-11|32

What you can notice here is that Sheik is really dumb All of them have less endlag and are less of a commitment when whiffed or blocked (I'll give you the fact that Yoshi's is quick though).

ok so lets compare reach:
These Ftilts reach farther than Yoshi's: Sheik, ZSS, Diddy, Pikachu (literally Pikachu's wtf), Falcon

ohhhh




None of those are crazy things to cancel out (and no Bob-ombs don't work)


Let's compare it to some of Yoshi's good options:
move|hit frames|FAF
Ftilt|6-8|39
Jab1|3-4|18
Jab2|3-4|21
Dtilt|8-10|23 (hnnng)
Utilt|8-15|32

As far as reach goes Ftilt (barely) reaches farther than Jab1 and Utilt.

And finally all of those options have legitimate setups as opposed to Ftilt:
jab1 > Kill move
Jab2 > tech chase
Dtilt > edgeuard situation
Utilt > up air which is a true combo in some cases and a 50:50 in others unlike Ftilt.




Ftilt is butt

Ftilt is still really good and it cancels out all those moves... The thing is about Jab, up tilt and down tilt is that you have to stop unlike side tilt. Making side tilt still a faster punish option. Ftilt legitly actually comboes into things just not on every single character. Dtilt and up tilt are better for sure but im just getting my point out the forward tilt would definitely improve our meta. Also where did you get the idea of jab 1 a kill move? Im confused.


Edit: NVM you were comparing combos with the other options whoops.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

If you're running then yes Ftilt has a use. Up tilt will cancel those moves too btw. What does Ftilt combo into and on what character at what %?

 

[YoHeKing]

If you're running then yes Ftilt has a use. Up tilt will cancel those moves too btw. What does Ftilt combo into and on what character at what %?

Really doesn't show up in training mode but its kinda like down throw. Needs precision, But you need to get the up close hit or the back side of Yoshi hit for a 50/50 chance of up air attack. But IDK... I could hear my brother air dodge with sheik(she made the noise) but before the invincibility came out a up air killed her. Forward tilt combos into itself on some characters at low percents.

Also I don't think up tilt cancels out bob omb, bowling ball and marths swords. IF they do then thats awesome. Forward tilt is definitely the safest option to try to catch something if that matters.

I think we can all agree ftilt is useful. Its just not like tier changing meta trick. Simply just an extra option that does help. Its no where no as useless as side B.

But anyways. I found a really good way we could improve our ground game even more. Perfect frame pivots xD. Those things are so good with Yoshis shield and jab. (Im kidding btw. Not many people can do them anyways. Unless you main fox from melee). But its seriously really good.

Last thing though. If you jump out of shield near an edge and up b you ledge cancel the up b kinda like before patch. If you get hit like 1/4th stage by a strong attack you can shield drop then run and pivot cancel jump into up B and it ledge cancels just like old times. Making get ups better and platform camping better i guess. Just thought Id share if any of you didn't know.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

If it doesn't show up in training mode than it's definitely not a combo. Combos stop working before it stops counting it as a combo. I'm guessing your bro might have airdodged late, but if you can at least find something that shows up in training mode than we can explore it. Otherwise there's nothing to explore.

Up tilt cancels Marth's Fsmash and Villager's bowling ball, but not bob-ombs. Although Ftilt doesn't beat bob-ombs either so meh.

Forward tilt is definitely the safest option to try to catch something if that matters.

No it isn't. Up tilt has more active frames and covers Yoshi better on top of less endlag. Literally nothing better.

ofc it's not as bad as egg roll, but it's a significantly worse option compared to many other attacks Yoshi has.

Last thing though. If you jump out of shield near an edge and up b you ledge cancel the up b kinda like before patch. If you get hit like 1/4th stage by a strong attack you can shield drop then run and pivot cancel jump into up B and it ledge cancels just like old times. Making get ups better and platform camping better i guess. Just thought Id share if any of you didn't know.

I couldn't get it to work and just stuck to the stage every time. :<

 

[Sinister Slush]

Utilt is better than ftilt, it both were moves were brawl's version they both would be better though.

 

[YoHeKing]

If it doesn't show up in training mode than it's definitely not a combo. Combos stop working before it stops counting it as a combo. I'm guessing your bro might have airdodged late, but if you can at least find something that shows up in training mode than we can explore it. Otherwise there's nothing to explore.

Up tilt cancels Marth's Fsmash and Villager's bowling ball, but not bob-ombs. Although Ftilt doesn't beat bob-ombs either so meh.


No it isn't. Up tilt has more active frames and covers Yoshi better on top of less endlag. Literally nothing better.

ofc it's not as bad as egg roll, but it's a significantly worse option compared to many other attacks Yoshi has.



I couldn't get it to work and just stuck to the stage every time. :<

Theres true combos that don't show up in training mode. And ftilt cancels out bob omb.

Side tilt has a higher catch range for some reason.

I couldn't get it to work and just stuck to the stage every time. :<

Ill make a video.

Utilt is better than ftilt, it both were moves were brawl's version they both would be better though.

Of course it is. I was just getting out my point that ftilt isnt useless. Running ftilt is definitely not as useless as people think. Thats all I was trying to prove.

Edit: My bad. I really didn't mean cancel out bob omb's hitbox. I just meant you can hit the bomb with ftilt without taking damage.

 

[Xandercosm]

I'm surprised it can hit bob-omb without Yoshi being damaged. That'll be useful in For Fun.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Ftilt didn't cancel Bob-omb when I tested it. Yoshi took full damage from it.

edit:

Theres true combos that don't show up in training mode.

Ya like footstool combos and jab resets. Ftilt is neither of those.

 

[YoHeKing]

Ftilt didn't cancel Bob-omb when I tested it. Yoshi took full damage from it.

edit:

Ya like footstool combos and jab resets. Ftilt is neither of those.

Bob bomb canceled out. If you do It to late it just catches it. Ftilt into ftilt works on some characters as a true combo.

Anyways I fought power rank 3, a marth main... and he was really good. He 2-0 me but the games were pretty close. His name was airvualt. I downloaded him like game 2 but I sd'd. I can understand why people think marth beat yoshi but I don't think he does if you know the MU.

Then I had to do the yoshi ditto in loosers... talk about bad luck.
I need to get good at the yoshi MU. Out of like 100 yoshis ive only beaten 1.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yoshi|5-7|39
Sheik|5-8|25
ZSS|6-8|29
Diddy|10-13|37
Pika|6-8|30
Falcon|9-11|32

Looking at this makes me sad. Diddy's literally takes twice as long to come out and STILL ends faster.

 

[YoHeKing]

Looking at this makes me sad. Diddy's literally takes twice as long to come out and STILL ends faster.

I know Its dumb. Maybe we could getsome tilt buffs for yoshi. I would like down tilt to slide because my perfect pivots are almost useless with yoshi without a fast enough tilt or sliding mechanic. Ftilt should have alot less endlag and same up tilt.

What if somebody emailed sakuri and complain about how much endlag his smash attacks and attacks had xD. I could live without the buff though.

I think buffing his tilts could have a better effect then buffing his throws kinda. He doesn't have a effective enough grab to get throws at all but then again if we could footstool or nair off a downthrow then that would be really good