All episodes of the new Smash Brothers documentary 'Metagame' are available on Vimeo! Get Metagame Here
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Support SmashBoards and get Premium Membership today!
Yikarur, in your experience with this game this far, what can you validate as being true from Yoshster's assessment? And even if nothing comes out of it, thank you Yoshster for the effort put in!I wouldn't necessarily say Yoshis heavy armor got buffed. It behaves differently now. This could get you killed at higher percent because you're not flying anywhere and then fall to your death. And you don't tank a 180% fsmash and receive no knockback. This is not true. A fsmash at 180 will still kill you.
In my opinion, heavy armor got heavily nerfed. It's duration used to be frame 1-69. You could fall after your double jump and tank hits and retaliate with an aerial while falling. This is not possible anymore. Yoshis Armor is now frame 1-44, you don't have armor while falling anymore and this was the best use for it.
Dthrow Upair is not true with correct DI. Not even close.
It does not autocancel. Short Hop Dair has 17 frames of landing lag.
Ftilt can work as well. But it's a very precise input but it's very important to do dsmashes out of jab1.
This is only for the close hitbox btw
This worked in Smash 4 already. The move is about the same tbh
Short Hop Dair does not autocancel.
It's probably the same + Ending lag is identical to Smash 4
Yoshis fsmash range got nerfed and the invincible nose is about the same
Pivot Grab is really slow now. Pivot Grab grabs frame 17. It was frame 10 in Smash 4. It has less lag in Ultimate but I wouldn't call it "very safe" tbh but I couldn't have been worse than Smash 4 haha
wut da fug, why aren't you on discord sometimes at least mang.
Funny, I went onto this post too for being fairly inaccurate.Post about everything wrong with article here
DJ change is definitely a nerf -- even not going anywhere after getting it broken is negative. I anticipate a lot of sadboy gimps where we get hit barely past the KB thereshold and die because we didn't have a chance to get launched upwards and away in order to drift back. This happens in 64 and Melee quite a bit, and it always looks really sad. =/lso on the armor, I'm sad for the nerf. Noticed in a lot of the early Spain vids that Yoshi was getting hit during DJ while falling so my best guess was the apex of DJ is when the armor ends. Gonna be sad not being able to tank hits while falling now.
To be honest, and I held this viewpoint during the Brawl era too, tracking all the very precise nitty gritty of the game is not meaningful to me and I don't find most of it to be practically applicable (kill confirms, for example, being a very notable exception). Studying character interactions and strategies surrounding the phases of the game for each character is much more generally useful, and will be best done when we all have the game in our hands (although the nitty gritty does inform this discussion somewhat). The emphasis of conversation is evidenced by the majority of discussion and research being done into frame data, Autocancel windows, etc. right now, rather than there being discussion about appropriate strategies to use in specific scenarios or against certain characters' neutrals. Alternatively, if this discussion does exist, it's being hidden away on Discord which is a shame. :^)wut da fug, why aren't you on discord sometimes at least mang.
Been making a doc with all the accurate changes so far.
afaik range was nerfed in the front but buffed in the back, so I would think of it as repurposed rather than nerfed (though with the removal of perfect pivoting I'm not sure if it'd be harder to land it).
Understandable, some frame data I find useful like at least knowing moves that's single digit for when they come out or landing lag if any, since every character universally got minor or massive landing lag buffs, Yoshi was a bit inbetween with single digits for Nair Uair now.To be honest, and I held this viewpoint during the Brawl era too, tracking all the very precise nitty gritty of the game is not meaningful to me and I don't find most of it to be practically applicable (kill confirms, for example, being a very notable exception).
It doesn't exist, mostly just a handful (and I do mean handful, like 3 or 4 yoshi's only) are playing the cracked game and mostly doing 1v1s while awkwardly stuck playing as Smash 4 Yoshi playstyle. Will of course take a good while before we all break the muscle memory habits and adjust to things like Bair and Ftilt being our best moves now.Studying character interactions and strategies surrounding the phases of the game for each character is much more generally useful, and will be best done when we all have the game in our hands (although the nitty gritty does inform this discussion somewhat). The emphasis of conversation is evidenced by the majority of discussion and research being done into frame data, Autocancel windows, etc. right now, rather than there being discussion about appropriate strategies to use in specific scenarios or against certain characters' neutrals. Alternatively, if this discussion does exist, it's being hidden away on Discord which is a shame. :^)
No worries, wasn't really getting on your tail (no pun intended) just joking around.So, apologies for buying into some outdated/incorrect hype. I will continue to rely on experience and verified sources in the future.
I never liked the idea of a super public and advertised everywhere server to the point a place would have over 500-2k members. I've always wanted a small tight knit group, even passing 300 wouldn't be a big deal cause most likely over 200 of em will be inactive/lurkers.As for why I'm not on Discord so much -- keeping up with a bunch of different channels is kind of annoying. And dropping in periodically to read a gazillion (exaggeration, I just scrolled through a bunch of the discord channel threads and they aren't obscenely active)
I completely agree that Discord messages or discord in general is not a good place to archive. I've preached this enough. The doc was just super last minute because, I mean, the game got into people's hands 2 weeks before initial release due to Mexico lol.discord messages is not an efficient way to gather information (which is why catalogs and forums are so nice.) I looked for easy access to this doc you mentioned, and maybe I'm just not Discord-savvy enough to find it easily, but having to click through a bunch of different channels and then clicking on the pin to hopefully find the document makes the information hidden away in nested menus, which sucks. Furthermore, outside of the time when there are new pinned posts, there is no indication that any channel actually has pinned messages (at least, that I can find). Discord feels like something I must constantly be up to date with, lest things become lost in the chaos. It's really annoying to deal with this when I have a schedule that keeps me from constantly checking the chats (not that I'd want to be beholden to such a thing anyways).
Why so focused on his grabs of all things? At this point I feel it's a deliberate balancing factor to have a weak grab game in favour of insane airspeed, strong attacks and good weight.Honestly, I feel like his grabs are even worse this time around. The range is just terrible and because of that you can't use it anymore to punish people landing at a mid-range distance from you. And even worse than that is the fact that egg lay also has ****ty range now. Did they think yoshi's tongue was broken or something?
Extremely disapointed with this character for now and seriously considering droping him this time around.
In Smash 4, his weak grab mattered as the meta was focused around grabs. Here? I'm not sure...Why so focused on his grabs of all things? At this point I feel it's a deliberate balancing factor to have a weak grab game in favour of insane airspeed, strong attacks and good weight.
I'm pretty sure the grab game of every non-tether-grabber was weakened in Ultimate; Sakurai must have gotten sick of the complaints that tether grabs were "useless".Why so focused on his grabs of all things? At this point I feel it's a deliberate balancing factor to have a weak grab game in favour of insane airspeed, strong attacks and good weight.
The reworked perfect shield mechanic should make shield pressure for Yoshi much easier as long as he isn't predictable (and I'm curious to see what happens with dair in that situation).In Smash 4, his weak grab mattered as the meta was focused around grabs. Here? I'm not sure...
Not really, he doesn't have a zair. Olimar neither. They're kind of an intermediary. But like I said before, Yoshi's grabs and throws have been consistently weak in all Smash games, so it's likely meant to be a trade-off for his other advantages.I should note that Yoshi is a tether grabber as well...
No. Yoshi doesn't have armor on Down B still. And yes, I was peeved when I found out the small clip that may have shown that he had ACTUALLY confirmed that it was CAPTAIN FALCON'S Side B having armor. Thanks Sakurai...Does Yoshi have full super armor during the ground pound (down+B) in Ultimate? In Smash 4, Yoshi's ground pound not having super armor was a major vulnerability (meaning any ground pound that misses in Smash 4 can be punished with a counterattack).
Yoshis dtilt has 3 hitboxes in that order. I think I'll switch the numbers to indicate that the first number is the closest hitbox to Yoshi.With dtilt damage being noted as (Base Damage: 4% / 4.5% / 5%), what's being indicated here? I noticed that the tip of the tail has less knockback, but is damage different depending on area of tail or is it something else?
And now yoshi can't juggle or frametrap with eggs anymore, I've seen a lot of aerials breaking my eggs when in s4 they would have hit the opponent. I don't think I like yoshi anymore in this game, the best confirms are off of falling aerials which are hard to land because he is floaty. The best new thing to me is that jab1 locks now, I've killed a lot with dtilt jablock fsmashReally not digging the change to aerial UpB. If done out of a short hop it now sends you insanely high, making short hop eggs almost useless unless thrown on the way down rather than on the way up. Grounded egg is better due to the bounce but it's much less safe compared to short hop egg, I feel like this is a big hit to his neutral overall.
Also, I think Down Throw Up Air is actually a true combo on fast fallers at low percents. I don't think it's ever guaranteed on floaties.