Yoshi in Ultimate Information Thread (WIP)

Yikarur

Smash Master
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
4,595
Location
Germany
#1
Here a list of changes I've compiled. I'll update it whenever I get new information. I won't mention knockback changes except they are clearly evident.

I'll make the thread look better in the future, don't worry!


===INTRODUCTION===
This thread will compile all available Data and Information about Yoshi in Ultimate. The goal is to have a location where everyone knows to find their important information without having to search for it every single time. I will keep this thread as updated as possible and contribution in any form are appreciated! :)
This time, let's make Yoshi to his best possible version in this game.


===ATTRIBUTES===
Weight: 104 [18th]
Walk Speed: 1.208 [26th]
Run Speed: 2.046 [16th]
Air Speed: 1.344 [1st]
Fall Speed: 1.29 [71st]
Fast Fall Speed: 2.064 [71st]
Number of Jumps: 2
Wall Jump: No
Wall Cling: No
Crawl: Yes




===FRAME DATA ===
This is the actual frame data of Yoshi in Ultimate. Ultimate runs at 60 Frames per second. This means if a move hits on frame 3, it hit's on 3/60 of a second. This is the basic time unit used in fighting games and it's very important to develop an understanding and feeling for this metric.


Notes:
Base Damage: The damage a move does without any modifier. The most important multipliers are:
In 1on1 the damage is increased by x1.2.
A short hop aerial does x0.85 damage.
A fresh move does x1.05 damage.


Duration: The number of a frames your move will last until you can move again. Kuroganehammer uses FAF (first actionable frame) instead which is Duration Frames+1, so you need to convert those numbers depending on how they are labled.

Hits: The frame the moves hit on.

Changes from Smash 4: All changes from Smash 4 are labeled in parenthesis. For example "Base Damage: 11% (was 9%)" means, it did 9% in Smash 4, but does 11% in Ultimate. If there is no paranthesis it's the same as in Smash 4

==Base Information==
Jump Squad: 3
Soft Landing: 2
Hard Landing: 4
Dash: 14


Short Hop Air Time: 38
Short Hop Fast Fall Air Time: 26
Full Hop Air Time: 60
Full Hop Fast Fall Air Time: 42


==Standard Moves==

Jab1:
Hits: 3 (was 3-4)
Base Damage: 3%
Duration: 17
Cancel into Jab2: 6 (was 8)



Jab2:
Hits: 3-4
Base Damage: 4%
Duration: 19



Dash Attack:
Hits: 10-12, 13-20
Base Damage: 11% (was 9%) / 8% (was 6%)
Duration: 40 (was 49)
- Slightly different animation but attributes seem similar
- doesn't go as far as in Smash 4


Forward Tilt:
Hits: 5-7
Base Damage: 8% (was 7% unangled)
Duration: 29 (was 38)
- New Animation



Up Tilt:
Hits: 8-15
Base damage: 7%
Duration: 31
- Front hitbox is a lot smaller
- Bigger Hitbox behind.



Down Tilt:
Hits: 8-10
Base Damage: 4% / 4.5% / 5%
Duration: 23



Up Smash:
Charge Frame: 8
Hits: 11-13 / 14-16
Feet Intangible: 11-13
Base Damage: 14% / 12%
Duration: 46



Forward Smash:
Charge Frame: 8
Hits: 14-16 (was 14)
Head Intangible: 12-16 (was 12-14)
Base Damage: 14% / 15.5%
Duration: 52
- Range is reduced from Smash 4
- a lot stronger and more active frames (useful to hit ledge get-ups)



Down Smash:
Charge Frame: 4
Front Hit:
Hits: 7-8
Base Damage: 12%, 10%


Back Hit:
Hits: 22-23
Base Damage: 12%, 10%


Duration: 49


==Aerial Moves==

Up Air:
Hits: 5-6
Base Damage: 12%
Landing Lag: 8 (was 14)
Autocancel: 1-4, 31- (was 1-4 33-)
Ledge Grab: 48-
Duration: 36 (was 38)
- New Animation
- Hitbox is similar, looks bigger but might just be the animation
- less hurtbox shifting



Down Air:
Hits: 16-x
Base Damage: 28% (1,3% per hit, Finisher: 2,7% )
Landing Lag: 17 (was 24)
Autocancel: 1-13, 50-
Ledge Grab: 67-
Duration: 56



Dair Landing Hit: 1
Base Damage: 1%



Forward Air:
Hits: 16-20
Base Damage: 14% Spike / 15%
Landing Lag: 13 (was 17)
Autocancel: 1-3, 40-
Ledge Grab: 67- (was 71- in 1.2.1)
Duration: 43



Neutral Air:
Hits: 3-x
Damage: 10%/7%/5%
Landing Lag: 7 (was 11)
Autocancel: 1-2, 38-
Ledge Grab: 61-
Duration: 44



Back Air:
Hits: 11, 14, 18-19
Base Damage: 12.5% (3.5% | 3.5% | 5.5%)
Landing Lag: 11 (was 19)
Autocancel: 1-5, 44-
Ledge Grab: 65-
Duration: 55


==Grabs and Throws==

Grab:
Grabs: 14-21 (was 14-24)
Duration: 48 (was 55)



Dash Grab:
Grabs: 16-23 (was 11-21)
Duration: 56 (was 67)



Pivot Grab:
Grabs: 17-24 (was 10-20)
Duration: 51 (was 64)



Up Throw:
Base Damage: 5%
Invincibility: 1-13
Duration: 43



Down Throw:
Base Damage: 4%
Invincibility: 1-25
Duration: 50



Forward Throw:
Base Damage: 9%
Invincibility: 1-15
Duration: 39



Back Throw:
Base Damage: 9% (was 7%)
Invincibility: 1-20
Duration: 43




==Special Moves==

Egg Throw:
Hits: 16-x (was 15-59)
Base Damage: 6% (was 1% / 5%)
Latest Eggsplosion: 62 (was 60)
Duration: 55 (was 53)
- Bounces of the floor if hit in a specific angle




Yoshi Bomb:

Grounded:
Hits: 7, 27-
Base Damage (Grounded): 4% / 15%
Can Land on platforms: 35+


Air:
Hits: 19- (was 20-)
Base Damage: 12%
Can Land on platforms: 27+


Stars:
Base Damage: 4%
Landing Lag: 39


- You can grab the ledge backwards
- Doesn't seem to slide anymore on slopes (or at least the slide is really weak in comparison to Smash 4)
- Can go through plattforms




Egg Lay:
Grabs: 19-22 ( was 21-24)
Duration: 41 (was 42)
Breakout Invincibility: 7 Frames (was 10)


Egg Roll (SideB)
Base Damage: 10+%



==Dodges==

How to read:
Invincibility / Duration
Note: Not mentioning changes from Smash 4 because the whole system got an overhaul


Airdodge (Neutral)
Best: 3-30 / 58
Worst: 6-27 / 58
Landing Lag: 10


Airdodge (Directional)
Best: 3-21 Inv.
Worst: 6-20 Inv.
Duration: You fall about 9 training mode boxes until you can move again
Landing Lag: 11-17 (later landing => less landing lag)



Spotdodge:
Fresh: 3-17 / 21
Worst: 6-17 / 28


Forward Roll:
Fresh: 4-15 / 31
Worst: 8-14 / 40


Backroll:
Fresh: 5-16 / 35
Worst: 9-14 / 53


==Misc.==

Heavy Armor: 1-44 (was 1-69)
- it's now "subtractive heavy armor". This means if you get hit, your knockback gets reduced by a specific amount and if the knockback you receive is 0 or less you don't flinch at all!




===USEFUL LINKS===

TO BE CONTINUED!
 
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Yosher

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Yoshi's Island, of course
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Yosher
#5
Good stuff. I don't know if I like Yoshi's new up air though. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, but it looks like a new back air while still retaining the old back air too... giving Yoshi two back airs while having no up air. Which will kinda limit his options for opponents above him and probably taking away one of his best killing moves. I hope I'm wrong on this, but that's the impression of his up air that I've gotten so far, but we haven't really seen proper footage of it yet I don't think.

Also, were you able to check at all if Yoshi Bomb going through platforms is controllable, or if it's just always the case?
 

SFA|JA3

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 19, 2018
Messages
6
Location
Omaha, NE
#6
Well I do hope we get some more information about yoshi. With the change of uair, I do hope it didn't get nerfed. He doesn't have that much to deal with crazy disjoints. Maybe this is the game where Sakurai makes Egg Roll 'viable'. He had three games to fix it lol
 

Grambles

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
24
#7
Does anyone know if eggroll crosses up shields? With not being able to run past people anymore, that could be a handy mobility tool to regain stage control
 

Pyano

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
3
Location
Germany
#8
some more things I found:

Up-Tilt:
- 7% (1on1 with Items)

Egg-Lay:
- 7% (1on1 with items)

Egg-Roll:
- hitted for 10% at start (1on1 with items)
- can still jump

F-Throw:
- 10% (1on1 with items)

D-Throw:
- 4% (1on1 with items)

U-Throw:
- 5% (1on1 with items)

New footage uploaded 6 hours ago (maybe you can get more out of these)

[Link1]
[Link2]
[Link3]
 

Pyano

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
3
Location
Germany
#11
I'm a bit mixed about the changes they did. I welcome most of them especially the grab ones even though it still may not combo. But upair seemingly not killing and nerfing again dairs dmg and the shield pressure ability of it hits me a bit personally. :(
But oh well let's wait and see what happens.
 

michaelboss

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 30, 2017
Messages
9
#12
From what I've seen it looks to be possible to still get a falling up air (looks like it can be landed easier due to the move starting behind him) and up tilt after leading into other up airs, so although the knockback may have been decreased for up air, hindering it's kill potential, it may be possible to further juggle with it now. (This is just optimistic thinking, since I really hope my boy yoshi is good)
Something else annoying I've seen is that egg throw has less vertical distance making it a worse recovery, as if he that's what he needed. A nerf to his recovery in a game that is way more edge guarding based, I just hope the new directional air dodge can help him.
 
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Yosher

Smash Ace
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Yoshi's Island, of course
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#14
From what I've seen, Yoshi's grabs seem to be faster and have less endlag upon whiff. The throws themselves seem the same they've been in Smash 4 for the most part (meaning virtually no kill power nor combo potential), but at least he's not so punishable upon failing the move anymore.

Something else annoying I've seen is that egg throw has less vertical distance making it a worse recovery, as if he that's what he needed. A nerf to his recovery in a game that is way more edge guarding based, I just hope the new directional air dodge can help him.
I'm sure the directional air dodge will help him, it just requires the right timing so you don't get screwed over by the horrendous end lag of it. So while it will help him, it'll be fairly limited.

On a seperate note... https://twitter.com/1stEditionKanna/status/1059529827840155648
I'm slightly worried for up tilt. To me it really looks like it should hit ROB here, but it just... doesn't. Well, not until Yoshi turns around and hits the up tilt from behind anyway. Really weird hitbox.
 

Sinister Slush

❄ I miss my kind ❄
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#16
There's gameplay of Yoshi but only 2 minute stuff or 1v1s that's sorta casuals while taking 20 or so seconds trying new stuff out during the game. Search Spainsmashbros or just Ultimate gameplay on YT.
 

Chepe

Smash Lord
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
1,146
#17
On a seperate note... https://twitter.com/1stEditionKanna/status/1059529827840155648
I'm slightly worried for up tilt. To me it really looks like it should hit ROB here, but it just... doesn't. Well, not until Yoshi turns around and hits the up tilt from behind anyway. Really weird hitbox.
Looking at the Twitter thread you linked to, I'm worried for up tilt as well since it was Yoshi's bread and butter for starting a juggle or set up in Smash 4. However, the side tilt looks so much better and seems to pop the opponent up for follow-ups as well. That move was pretty slow and useless in the last two installments, so it's nice to see it improved to the point that it might just be the new go-to move. I can't wait to start testing the new Yoshi as soon as I boot up the game!
 
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Drageoks

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
2
#18
I'm pretty new to this but some other stuff I've found is that you can't jab cancel anymore so jab 1 -> up smash is one less kill option, up smash also has less knockback which sucks, and up air has more end lag so doing combos in the air probably isn't gonna happen.
 

Yoshster

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
9
#19
I'm pretty new to this but some other stuff I've found is that you can't jab cancel anymore so jab 1 -> up smash is one less kill option, up smash also has less knockback which sucks, and up air has more end lag so doing combos in the air probably isn't gonna happen.
Where'd you hear about Up Smash's knockback?

Also I've seen videos of up-air doing combos, so I don't think it's endlag is a problem.
 

PlasmicOcean

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Messages
9
#21
The Smashwiki is actually really unreliable right now, particularly for character changes. It'll probably be better once the game actually comes out and the people who seriously maintain the site get around to verifying information, but at the moment it's just anyone filling it with random unsourced speculation and stuff.

Aside from that here's some stuff from my own analysis and two more matches to look through:
1 2

Up-air:
-Same starting frame (frame 5).
-FAF 39 still at the latest.
-Knockback looks very similar to old up air.
-After going frame by frame, for every instance of it hitting or whiffing I could find, I'm pretty sure it's just old up air's hitbox in a new skin. It always seems to hit frame 5, even when that wouldn't make sense if it were an arcing hitbox like the animation is. Might have a few more active frames, or a bit more horizontal reach if we're lucky, but I wouldn't bet on it. Either way up air was great, so this is mostly a good thing, though kinda weird.
-Not sure what this means for hurtbox shifting though, but it might be worth testing once the game comes out.

Fair:
-Still has a 15% base damage sour hit.

Bair:
-Hits 2 and 3 come out faster, frames 14, and 18 respectively (hit 1 is still frame 11).
-Hits 1 and 2 have significantly less hitpause.
-Hit 3 has more.
-Base damages are 3.5% for the first two hits, and 5.5% for the third.
-Drag down setups seem gone or severely nerfed, since hit 2 didn't spike Mewtwo on stage at above 60% (it starts at 18% in Smash 4)

Dair:
-Total number of hits is reduced, reducing it's total damage, and shield damage as well as a result.
-Final aerial hit deals more damage.
-May still do enough damage for break slightly damaged shields in 1v1, but it needs testing.
-Max damage I've seen is 24.3% (fresh, no 1v1, no shorthop).

Landing Lag:
(Decided to check landing lag, dair is the only one that I'm fairly unsure of (it may be a lot lower), but the others could still be slightly wrong, though I don't think they are)
-Fair 12 frames
-Nair 7 frames
-Uair 8 frames
-Bair 11 frames
-Dair 20 frames

F-smash:
-Was able to confirm it still has both the 14% and the 15% base damage hitboxes haven't seen the 13% one yet.

Down-Smash
-Hit 1 base damage is 12.2%
-Hit 2 base damage is 12.1%

Up-smash:
-Still 14% base damage.

F-tilt:
-8% base damage.
-Still comes out frame 5
-A few months ago, I was convinced it had an FAF of 30, which is a big buff, but I can't remember exactly where I got that from after looking at it again, so idk. I'm gonna test all of Yoshi's endlag myself once the game's out. Okay so I found some footage of someone buffering something out of f-tilt, it was 30fps phone footage though, so I had to guess a bit, but it definitely looks lie it's got an FAF very close to 30.

Down-tilt:
-Still has a 5% base damage hitbox.

Up-tilt:
-The front hitbox nerf stuff is accurate, it can't hit Doctor Mario when he's standing in front of Yoshi, but it can hit his less than full shield, and his jump squat animation.
-On the other hand the back hitbox looks better than ever, but between run canceling and jab confirms, it's not the place I'd want it to be good tbh.
-I really hope this gets fixed though, I could see it potentially being unintentional, but idk, it kind of makes sense if you looks at the animation frame by frame, but it looks super janky with the trail so I'm gonna hold out hope.

Jab:
-Jab 2 seems to come out faster.
-Jab confirms look more consistent for the most part. Jab > up-smash may not work on grounded opponents, since they aren't lifted off the ground and can shield as a result (though it was never true in 4, and we do actually see Kanna land one on Doc at high percent, but he was on a slope, so idk...maybee?), however I honestly expect jab > nair, and jab > f-tilt (which looks like it combos into nair) to be true from what I've seen, and won't be too surprised if jab > down-tilt/smash are as well (rip jab > up-tilt though)

F-Throw:
-9% base damage
-Looks like it's gained a tiny bit of knockback as well (maybe a better angle?)

Pummel:
-1.2% base damage, which is a nerf, though I've heard unverified reports that it may be faster.

Egg Throw:
-Hops somewhat higher when used in the air.

Egg Roll:
-Seemed to bounce for a significantly shorter period of time and lower height after being used in the air.
-Did not go through shield while in the air
-Did 11.6% while bouncing (1.05x freshness bonus, no 1.2x 1v1 multiplier)
-This is less analysis and more speculation, but that damage buff is probably a fairly huge deal for egg roll. Egg roll's damage scales with how fast you're moving in Smash 4, the max is about 9%, the min is 4%. It's certainly possible that they removed this effect and buffed the move to a consistent 11% base damage (still a huge buff), but if not, that would mean it'll consistently do more than 11% base damage per hit, which may justify the move by itself (especially if it retains all it's tech from Smash 4) considering landing one hit often means landing 1-2 more at low percent.

-The amount of time you're locked in the egg is significantly reduced.
-Endlag when exiting the egg normally seems about the same.
-Still breaks and bounces backwards when hitting walls.
-Can pass through shields on the ground.
-Damage still scales with how fast you're moving. So far it's dealt up to 13.7% fresh (13% base damage) while moving fast.

Yoshi Bomb:
-Aerial hit base damage still 12%.
-Stars base damage still 4%.
-Stars look a bit bigger and like they go a bit further to me, but I could be wrong.
-Apparently going through soft platforms is controlled by holding special.
-Grounded version still breaks full shields without the 1v1 multiplier, meaning the aerial version may be a significant threat to shields in 1v1.
-Situational bit of tech, but you can down-b through soft plats with ledges, then grab said ledges if you're close enough.


Other nice stuff:
-Grounded spikes are supposedly untechable according to GimR, and aerial ones are as well according to Kanna, which is obviously fantastic for Yoshi.
-Directional airdodge to ledge is a pretty much a straight buff to our recovery.
-We seemingly can still short hop > neutral airdodge, and double jump neutral airdodge to stage pretty reasonably, just not into aerials (AD has lots of aerial lag, fairly low landing lag).
-Double jump > waveland also seems great for our recovery, even if there's too much endlag for real wavedashing.
-Egg throw 1 seems to hop significantly higher sometimes, not sure if the first aerial egg throw always does this, or if it's conditional somehow (only when jumping like Maypul up air maybe?), idk.
-Airdodges being **** offstage will be great for Yoshi, since it doesn't really hurt us, but makes everyone else easier to edgeguard.
-His grabs probably have less endlag as well, but I don't have frame data.
-Yoshi Bomb grabbing ledge backwards means grounded Yoshi Bomb might make a really nice ledge trapping option, especially if it actually ends up having armor (covers everything, but roll, including holding ledge)
-Egg throw can bounce multiple times, though it seems the max distance is still about the same regardless.
-The damage buff to f-throw looks like it may come with a knockback one too, I'm not expecting it to kill at any reasonable percent, but it looks like it'll be better for throwing people offstage for edgeguards
-Fastfall speed looks better to me, but no guarantees
-Supposedly we can dash shield faster
-Perfect shield looks cool with the egg shards and stuff
-New victory animations look sick

Edit: Gonna keep adding stuff to this post as I find it.

More videos: 1 2 3 (Direct Feed60fps) 4 5 6
 
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Yosher

Smash Ace
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Yoshi's Island, of course
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Yosher
#22
I wonder if the buff to Egg roll will finally make it a more viable move, but the fact that it can't go through shields will make it really easy to just shield and grab Yoshi as a result I think, as if that wasn't easy enough already. I mean, unless the end lag when you end the move is just that low that you can act out of it almost immediately, or the opponent dropping their shield after the shield takes damage means they still get hit by it regardless.

I'm also glad Up air still seems to be good, I was kinda worried about that one, but I was hoping the arcing animation would mean a hitbox behind Yoshi as well which would give him another great combo-starting tool I think. The up tilt really needs to be fixed though, on the image you placed there it really does look like it should have hit.

Most of the the other stuff looks to be fairly good buffs for the Yosh, so I'm happy for that. Thank you for this analysis!
 

PlasmicOcean

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Messages
9
#23
Egg roll with new shield mechanics actually sounds really interesting to me tbh. If it can't go through shields you may be right about it being easy shield grab fodder, but it kind of depends on if/how fast it continues to hit their shield, if it is though, jump over crossups to bulldoving their shield from behind could be an option, honestly seems like it could be kinda potent shield pressure if it just keeps pushing and hitting their shield (especially with all that damage).

On the other hand ending egg roll next to someone's shield will never not be terrible, even if you ate up a bunch of their shield and pushed them to the ledge. Also I'm not even sure that is how it'll work, going back over that footage, Yoshi exited egg roll after hitting their shield, so it may still pass through (does seem to have more pushback though).

Up air does actually hit behind Yoshi, always has, the hitbox is pretty huge in Smash 4. We've actually already seen it hit as an OoS option when Doc was behind Yoshi (very close though) in one of the SmashSpain videos. But yeah, I was also kind of hoping for more horizontal range, since it looks like it should have some, we'll have to wait and see, I guess.

And yeah, the Yoshi hype is real.
 

Yosher

Smash Ace
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Yoshi's Island, of course
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#24
I kind of doubt the egg roll will continuously hit the opponent like that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but each new hit requires a new hitbox as well, and I think Yoshi's egg roll always just had one continuous hitbox throughout the move (unless you'd turn around, which unloads the hitbox and then brings it up again). If it would work the way you described, you would probably be able to drag opponents to the side of the stage with it too. Compare it to Yoshi's dair, which works in that way where each kick is its own hitbox, and allows you to drag opponents down with the move.

I'm not an expert on these things though so I may be wrong, but if it really doesn't pass through shields, and I'm gonna guess that it also doesn't do continuous hits because that's never been the case, then that's really not a good thing whatsoever for the move, making it potentially even worse than ever before. That's just my gut feeling though, how it actually works in practice remains to be seen.
 

Yoshster

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
9
#25
Hmm now here's something interesting
At around 0:46 Yoshi does a down-throw on Ryu and combos it into an up-air. I guess it might just be bad DI on the Ryu player's part though.
 

PlasmicOcean

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Messages
9
#26
Definitely bad DI, and it didn't look like he was still in hitstun to me, Ryu most likely just didn't airdodge. That being said I wouldn't doomsay down throw combos just yet, you have to remember that we haven't seen anyone try them with the 1.2x 1v1 multiplier on (it's not on if there's items), and that SSB4 down throw > up air was a very character and percent specific combo that required you to read there DI and buffer both the double jump and the up air (trickier than it sounds).

On Egg Roll hitting multiple times without turning around, it definitely can in 4, but it may be limited to other conditions like bouncing or jumping creating a new hitbox as well. I have a few ideas for ways to test if it can hit multiple times while just rolling straight along the ground, so I'll let you know if I figure it out. It's a weird move, so it's hard to predict how it'll behave in a new game with new physics and mechanics.

Either way though the buffed damage probably means more shield stun (depends on the games shield stun formula, but still) and shield damage as well, and you have enough control that it shouldn't be a total disaster even if it does just ineffectually push their shield after hitting it once. Honestly anything's better than Smash 4 where they could just shield all the hits then get free stage control, since you had to run away to avoid being punished...

Also I gave it some more thought, and the up tilt hitbox, while definitely annoying, probably won't be disastrous with f-tilt being a combo starter, and Jab confirms hopefully being better if I'm right.

New Yoshi footage: 1 2 3 (Direct Feed60fps)

The period of time you're locked into Egg Roll is waaaaaaay shorter now (ironically they still SD'd with it several times...). It seems to be consistently doing more than 10% (did 11.4% while fresh), they didn't hit anyone while moving fast though unfortunately.

Down Smash hit 1 did 12.8% (think it was fresh, no 1.2x), which would put the base damage at 12.2%, which is kinda weird, but not impossible.
 

PlasmicOcean

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Messages
9
#28
Wait a minute, have they removed the akuma pose, I really hope not, please tell me it ain't so.
I don't think we've seen his third one yet, but the two we have seen are basically better versions of his Smash 4 victory screens, so hopefully the last one gets the same treatment, cause it's my favourite as well :)
 

Zinith

Yoshi is Thicc in S P I R I T
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#29
I don't think we've seen his third one yet, but the two we have seen are basically better versions of his Smash 4 victory screens, so hopefully the last one gets the same treatment, cause it's my favourite as well :)
Akuma pose is objectively the best pose of all time. I'm expecting it to be glorious :yoshi:
 

PlasmicOcean

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Messages
9
#30
So it turns out Egg Throw's recovery potential has actually been nerfed significantly, it no longer seems to really hop at all when used in the air (basically aerial egg throw 1 looks like aerial egg throw 2). The reason I (and this one dude talking in the background of one of those demo videos) was confused about this is that basically every time someone's used egg throw in the air they've buffered it out of a double jump, because tap jump is on since it's a demo where everyone has to use default controls...

Rip egg-hop, you will be missed.


Edit: Nvm, scratch all of that Egg Throw does still hop in the air, and it looks like it does go a bit higher than in Smash 4.

Also in this video we see Egg Roll pass through shield, and deal 13.7% when moving faster (also fresh with no 1v1 multiplier).
 
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Ssb_OverEazy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
4
#31
So it turns out Egg Throw's recovery potential has actually been nerfed significantly, it no longer seems to really hop at all when used in the air (basically aerial egg throw 1 looks like aerial egg throw 2). The reason I (and this one dude talking in the background of one of those demo videos) was confused about this is that basically every time someone's used egg throw in the air they've buffered it out of a double jump, because tap jump is on since it's a demo where everyone has to use default controls...

Rip egg-hop, you will be missed.

Edit: Nvm, scratch all of that Egg Throw does still hop in the air, and it looks like it does go a bit higher than in Smash 4.

Also in this video we see Egg Roll pass through shield, and deal 13.7% when moving faster (also fresh with no 1v1 multiplier).

You are a GOD amongst people. #eggup to you, Plasmic! The recovery being unclear worried me. Any update on jab still being frame three? People say it's unchanged, but a close friend of mine who played the demo said it felt slow.
 

PlasmicOcean

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Messages
9
#32
You are a GOD amongst people. #eggup to you, Plasmic! The recovery being unclear worried me. Any update on jab still being frame three? People say it's unchanged, but a close friend of mine who played the demo said it felt slow.
Lol thanks, yeah I was worried about egg throw too. I'm pretty much positive Jab 1 is still frame 3, I think that Jab 2 comes out faster, and the Jab 1 confirms look true as well, but I'm not positive about those other two. Either way though you wouldn't really be able to feel it if Jab were a frame or 2 slower after a brief demo, especially not in a new game where tons of other values are different.
 

USAnyan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
60
#33
curious if there's any news on if Dtilt/DSmash still semi spikes? that was really helpful for me personally in Sm4sh. There seems to be confusion on whether Yoshi's Up B still jumps multiple times or just is one big jump, which is it?
 

PlasmicOcean

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Messages
9
#34
curious if there's any news on if Dtilt/DSmash still semi spikes? that was really helpful for me personally in Sm4sh. There seems to be confusion on whether Yoshi's Up B still jumps multiple times or just is one big jump, which is it?
D-smash still hits at about 30 degrees, d-tilt's a little trickier since the Sakurai angles it has on two of it's hitboxes are hard to tell apart from the semi spikes at low knockback, and d-tilt is rarely high knockback, but I don't see any reason to think it won't.

Up B's never had multiple jumps, it has one jump, then a stall, then a very slight stall, then nothing. This seems pretty much the same in Ultimate, just better. It's been tricky to find footage of Up B 1, since people keep buffering double jump before it, cause tap jump, which led to most of the confusion surrounding it, but it seems pretty similar to Smash 4.

There have been a few instances of people not having Up B 1 when it looks like they should, but this is probably just people losing their Up Bs the same way people lose their double jumps.

More importantly though, Akuma victory pose is still in.
 
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Ssb_OverEazy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 13, 2018
Messages
4
#36
Thank you everyone for the extra information!I look forward to getting the game and contributing myself however possible!
 

Yoshster

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
9
#37
You guys are going to want to see this:
https://ssbworld.com/blog/303/yoshi--the-final-build-and-everything-ive-tested-so-far
Yoshi got mad buffs.

Some key stuff:
-Biggest buff is the Dj armor. It now behaves like melee Dj armor in the sense that when it’s broken now, it puts you into hit stun but doesn’t send you anywhere. I ate a f smash from k rool at 180 and didn’t get sent anywhere and then punished him for it. If the move that breaks it is laggy, you have time to do any move that’s 10 frames or less as any time I tried to use fair it was always just barely too slow.

-Down throw is a true confirm to up air on the whole cast at low % and a kill confirm window like ding dong on most of the cast. Only few characters I couldn’t kill this way was k rool, dedede and bowser who are all incredibly hard to kill off the top (should note I didnt get to play against ganon but i assume it wont on him either). Coining the grab into x combo "Egg Bop"

-Short hop dair auto cancels and combos now, but full short hop dair only does 22 instead of 33. If you don’t hit anything it ends super fast.

-Jab cancel is still a thing but only at 100%+ and only into down smash (still frame 7 but has more power)

-Up air is much better. Hit box hits wider and has less end lag but still frame 5 active. Knock back is much more vertical with less di angles making chaining them. It’s very easy to do double up tilt into quadruple up air into egg throw finish.

-Bair when not hitting anything ends super fast and short hop bair auto cancels. Bair kills better than smash 4.

-Upsmash is weaker but has better range and less end lag.

-Fsmash is stronger with better disjoint than 4.

-Pivot grab has very low end lag but the grab itself is almost instant and reaches farther than standing and dash grab. Retreating pivot grab is very safe.
 

Delta-cod

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
9,383
Location
Northern NJ or Chicago, IL
NNID
Phikarp
#38
Kill confirms? Safe moves? Swole boy DJ armor? This is a dream com--

-Pivot grab has very low end lag but the grab itself is almost instant and reaches farther than standing and dash grab. Retreating pivot grab is very safe.
1543718720384.png


Hopefully all this information is accurate. Of course, much will come down to how the game's neutral meta shakes out. If we can't compete in neutral well, a lot of the other things don't matter. But fast, long-reaching options are a good sign for us.
 
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Yikarur

Smash Master
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
4,595
Location
Germany
#40
You guys are going to want to see this:
https://ssbworld.com/blog/303/yoshi--the-final-build-and-everything-ive-tested-so-far
Yoshi got mad buffs.

Some key stuff:
-Biggest buff is the Dj armor. It now behaves like melee Dj armor in the sense that when it’s broken now, it puts you into hit stun but doesn’t send you anywhere. I ate a f smash from k rool at 180 and didn’t get sent anywhere and then punished him for it. If the move that breaks it is laggy, you have time to do any move that’s 10 frames or less as any time I tried to use fair it was always just barely too slow.
I wouldn't necessarily say Yoshis heavy armor got buffed. It behaves differently now. This could get you killed at higher percent because you're not flying anywhere and then fall to your death. And you don't tank a 180% fsmash and receive no knockback. This is not true. A fsmash at 180 will still kill you.

In my opinion, heavy armor got heavily nerfed. It's duration used to be frame 1-69. You could fall after your double jump and tank hits and retaliate with an aerial while falling. This is not possible anymore. Yoshis Armor is now frame 1-44, you don't have armor while falling anymore and this was the best use for it.


-Down throw is a true confirm to up air on the whole cast at low % and a kill confirm window like ding dong on most of the cast. Only few characters I couldn’t kill this way was k rool, dedede and bowser who are all incredibly hard to kill off the top (should note I didnt get to play against ganon but i assume it wont on him either). Coining the grab into x combo "Egg Bop"
Dthrow Upair is not true with correct DI. Not even close.

-Short hop dair auto cancels and combos now, but full short hop dair only does 22 instead of 33. If you don’t hit anything it ends super fast.
It does not autocancel. Short Hop Dair has 17 frames of landing lag.

-Jab cancel is still a thing but only at 100%+ and only into down smash (still frame 7 but has more power)
Ftilt can work as well. But it's a very precise input but it's very important to do dsmashes out of jab1.
This is only for the close hitbox btw

-Up air is much better. Hit box hits wider and has less end lag but still frame 5 active. Knock back is much more vertical with less di angles making chaining them. It’s very easy to do double up tilt into quadruple up air into egg throw finish.
This worked in Smash 4 already. The move is about the same tbh

-Bair when not hitting anything ends super fast and short hop bair auto cancels. Bair kills better than smash 4.
Short Hop Dair does not autocancel.

-Upsmash is weaker but has better range and less end lag.
It's probably the same + Ending lag is identical to Smash 4


-Fsmash is stronger with better disjoint than 4.
Yoshis fsmash range got nerfed and the invincible nose is about the same

-Pivot grab has very low end lag but the grab itself is almost instant and reaches farther than standing and dash grab. Retreating pivot grab is very safe.
Pivot Grab is really slow now. Pivot Grab grabs frame 17. It was frame 10 in Smash 4. It has less lag in Ultimate but I wouldn't call it "very safe" tbh but I couldn't have been worse than Smash 4 haha
 
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