Y. Link Match Up Discussion. Ask Questions Here!

[rhan]

This is a serious thread.

How the **** do you beat Marth.....

Seriously. He's so.....AGH. It's so annoying. Once he's in control there is no stoping him. It's either DI bad and get combo'd or DI good and get followed with more bull****. I just don't know what to do. And it's not just with Young Link. It's with every character in my arsenal. Sheik is about the only character I can play against him but even then he can out gay me. So what are some basic things I can do to ensure that I don't get screwed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zo093CcPao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyNzh9ir3KQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nOo3wp6GFk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8iqQ2-Sa5M

The most recent videos of the Marth I play against. Not his best preformances but it's at least something that gives visual aid on what I'm up against.

 

[Tee ay eye]

 

[Rubyiris]

Srs Thread Is Srs Guise.

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

Marth is so gay. I was at a tournament yesterday and had a lot of trouble against Marth.

in fact, I got put in losers by a Doc (after using YL and Falcon) and then when I worked my way back to him I used Marth and won >_> and I felt really lame about it.

any matches I had against Marth with YL were very -_- as well. such a broken character. I don't really know what to say about it. He's pretty much unbeatable if played perfectly.

 

[rhan]

Yeah. The Marth I play against is very patient. He'll wait for you to do something and at that instant it's like he knows how to counter it.

Last night I got so mad because I couldn't beat him. So I started to Marth ditto him. He won like every match but I was up to par with him on every match. They always ended in like either I just took away his 3rd stock. Or both of us in the hundreds. Funny thing about that is I don't play Marth. I just copy M2K.

That aside. What are some basic things that can be done to now get screwed by Marth's stupidity?

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

your new avatar really is how I feel about fighting Marth lol

I have no idea really, maybe I will think on it later. hope someone else has some ideas.

 

[rhan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOxDOAqQTEU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER2XvBEpZMU

Couple videos of the same player. As I believe I'm playing in one of the videos. They're sets I suppose because they're 7 minutes long. If you don't like the commentary. Open up your iTunes, mute Youtube, play what you want.

HELP A ***** OUT!

FYI: These matches were recorded last Saturday.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Before I answer your questions, I gotta ask, who is that kid recording S-man's matches? Do you know him? He's so cute.

You can definitely beat this Marth. If you work on your Sheik more, I'm sure you could do it consistently. Just needle him like a wh*re, grab him, tilt him, fair him. GG

Oh and CC his fairs.

Young Link is a different story. Marth is so difficult with YL. But, with patience, and a lot of bomb spamming, it can be done. You just need a large stage (i.e., anything but YS, FoD, and probably BF). Make him come to you. And then read his approach and punish any weaknesses in it.

CrystalNite seems to like his forward-air. It's a great move but it has weaknesses.

1. Easily CC'ed
2. Easily spotdodged
3. Attacks that come from beneath his SH fair outprioritize it (dash attack, mainly).

So basically what I'm saying is to camp while watching his movement pattern. Then, when he's open, land a good hit.

If you don't like camping, and would rather be aggressive, go Sheik.

 

[rhan]

Before I answer your questions, I gotta ask, who is that kid recording S-man's matches? Do you know him? He's so cute.

It was only me, Crystalnite and S-Man there that night. So it's gotta be me and my half *** commentary....

You can definitely beat this Marth. If you work on your Sheik more, I'm sure you could do it consistently. Just needle him like a wh*re, grab him, tilt him, fair him. GG

Oh and CC his fairs.

Young Link is a different story. Marth is so difficult with YL. But, with patience, and a lot of bomb spamming, it can be done. You just need a large stage (i.e., anything but YS, FoD, and probably BF). Make him come to you. And then read his approach and punish any weaknesses in it.

CrystalNite seems to like his forward-air. It's a great move but it has weaknesses.

1. Easily CC'ed
2. Easily spotdodged
3. Attacks that come from beneath his SH fair outprioritize it (dash attack, mainly).

So basically what I'm saying is to camp while watching his movement pattern. Then, when he's open, land a good hit.

If you don't like camping, and would rather be aggressive, go Sheik.

This explains a lot. I'm not really campy. And after watching those matches I realised that he camps and that's why I get set up for failure. Because I always charge at him and rarely camp. Thanks much bro!

 

[Roche_CL]

Against Falcon:
Dont spam shuffled Nairs, easily dd to grab, you have to shuffle Nair when you see him aproach, or if he's falling and you want to land a fast hit, although you can always Dash attack since its nice too.
full jump Uair isnt very good, i prefer full jump nairs
nice dtilt for edgeguard n_n
i wouldnt go with on stage arrow spam, to laggy, easy knee xD
Fox:
becareful when going on stage with Uair, only do it if you're sure you will land it, if you just want to go with an attack, i prefer Fair (little lag and nice priority) if the oponent itsn't jumping for a Bair
i guess some Dair are just because they were friendlies since its very risky xD

maybe you should play a little more defensively, since you're a low tier....you have the right to be the camper xD but your Y link is really nice, your opponents were good too.

 

[Slademj15]

How weird, I've never had problems with Marth at all....well not anymore, Young link is my main but my second main is Roy but I hardly use him. Somehow I understand how Marth reacts and how the player plays him, Since I'm an aggressive type, I stay on him but first bomb him to get him distracted and such and a little patience, after that I go for an attack and not leave him breathing, Once the damage has been inflicted on him, what I do is punish him with Bomb out, Boomerang First, Arrow second, Bomb throw then D-air for the kill.


I've faced awesome Marths and they have trouble with me most of the time.

Yes my videos are up but I've improved so much, I'm 2% close to mastering Young Link now.

 

[ChivalRuse]

How weird, I've never had problems with Marth at all....well not anymore, Young link is my main but my second main is Roy but I hardly use him. Somehow I understand how Marth reacts and how the player plays him, Since I'm an aggressive type, I stay on him but first bomb him to get him distracted and such and a little patience, after that I go for an attack and not leave him breathing, Once the damage has been inflicted on him, what I do is punish him with Bomb out, Boomerang First, Arrow second, Bomb throw then D-air for the kill.


I've faced awesome Marths and they have trouble with me most of the time.

Yes my videos are up but I've improved so much, I'm 2% close to mastering Young Link now.

Good choice. Young link is one of the hardest characters to become proficient with, imo.

 

[Me14k]

Use upair more, especially against falcon..

If marth was hit above you, upair is nice for intercepting him bc it hits thru marth's dair.

Bombs. Use bombs, son. I see you using more arrows than bombs...I used to main peach and vs marths (another hard matchhup) I turnip camp. The only time my turnip camping doesn't work is when the marth fairs the turnips...this is why ylink's bombs ****, marth can't fair the bombs....boomerrang to force the marth away for you if you cant get a bomb pull off....work on getting bombs to hit and then follow up with a nair (especially at low percents, possibly combo into a second nair at low percents) or dair if at killing percent.

I like edge guarding with edge refreshed nair (from hanging on edge, fall down slightly then nair while moving upwards, your invincibility frames will protect you a little bit)

Marth matchup sucks...the marth you are playing isn't aaggressive...punish him by being the aggressor.

Btw, with Peach..dash attack goes thru marths fair...dash attack rapess this matchup
Good Luck :-)

** why did you post this in the ylink section, you don't have a ylink video....this should be in the marth section if it is generally help against marth.

 

[professor mgw]

don't suck...

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

don't suck...

oh, what wonderful advice. you must be a Brawl player.

 

[rhan]

Use upair more, especially against falcon..

If marth was hit above you, upair is nice for intercepting him bc it hits thru marth's dair.

Bombs. Use bombs, son. I see you using more arrows than bombs...I used to main peach and vs marths (another hard matchhup) I turnip camp. The only time my turnip camping doesn't work is when the marth fairs the turnips...this is why ylink's bombs ****, marth can't fair the bombs....boomerrang to force the marth away for you if you cant get a bomb pull off....work on getting bombs to hit and then follow up with a nair (especially at low percents, possibly combo into a second nair at low percents) or dair if at killing percent.

I like edge guarding with edge refreshed nair (from hanging on edge, fall down slightly then nair while moving upwards, your invincibility frames will protect you a little bit)

Marth matchup sucks...the marth you are playing isn't aaggressive...punish him by being the aggressor.

Btw, with Peach..dash attack goes thru marths fair...dash attack rapess this matchup
Good Luck :-)

** why did you post this in the ylink section, you don't have a ylink video....this should be in the marth section if it is generally help against marth.

Thanks for the tips.

And at the moment I was extreamly pissed. And I didn't want it to get closed at first glance. Plus only a few look in the YL forums. Mods don't really moderate often here. So I get to have the conversation without any distractions.

Edit: Good **** TRC!

 

[Shaeman111]

waste of time

 

[AlcyoNite]

"Young Link

Picture Young Link being Link...but with a worse recovery, you having more ability to combo him, less grab range, and a less effective nair. That's Young Link. He's lighter, more easily knocked out, your u throw to u tilt combos destroy him, and if you space well.....you'll be just fine. Make sure you don't let him camp you (Marth hates projectiles) and you stay in his face and feed him tippered fairs. I find that nairs to grabs and dash canceled d tilts are extremely effective in this match up. You are floaty so YL can combo you with u airs, bairs, and dairs so be sure not to get grabbed and you should be ok."
--Marth Match-up Gude

gg

 

[Shaeman111]

so basically turhan, camp, camp, camp, when approach comes, use ur crazy meindgaymes (roll, wavedash, counter with nair/uair, and gtf away and keep camping till hes at high percent rofl

thats ur only choice. dont get all in his face like ur sum kind of high teir
dont make ur character into sumthin he's not
maybe u feel u can play marth like u do link. naw. keep the camp. dont even try to approach.

also, spot dodges are KEY to help you take advantage of marths lagtime.
arials juggle, so when you do get in a good hit (upair/upsmash/nair/grab) keep up the combo (but dont go for rediculous combos. like if u know he can get away, Let him. Pressure isnt very reliable in this matchup (for whatever reasons theo knows).

grabs should be used almost never, unless marth's shield broke, he feels hes stuck in shield(which isnt common), or he countered. whatever the case, always downthrow (you know this) and you know the combos from there. uair, uptilt, downtilt(at low percent), chaingrab at 0% with poor DI, fair-->regrab, jab-->regrab, or a forward jumped bair to.... 1.reverse dash attack, 2.reverse grab, 3. Or downsmash.
anything else could be creative, but all of these arent GUARANTEED (which is the downside to y.link) so mindgames are KEY.

all of that is IF you end up in close combat. or combos get started.
other than that;
camp.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I feel like running around constantly bombing is boring. I like to use bombs to approach rather than to slowly accrue damage.

Me14k compared YL's bombs to Peach's turnips. But when Peach turnips, she can SH turnip throw > FC fair in one fluid motion. I like to think of YL's bombs in a fluid way as well.

Ideas:

1. SH backwards and pull out a bomb
a. You have a bomb
i. Dash and SH > waveland backwards (returns you to situation a); the "fake out"
ii. SH bomb throw

One of the following happens:
b. The bomb hits your opponent
c. The bomb is shielded
d. Opponent, rolled/wavedashed back
or e. Your opponent jumps

if b., land and fsmash/utilt/usmash
if c., retreat
if d., repeat 1.
if e., follow your opponent's DI and uair from below

There are a lot of variations to how you can apply this situation.

When you have a bomb you can FJ fastfall bomb throw, or SH double Jump fastfall bombthrow, or empty SH > land > bomb smash throw

YL is so fun. You can get ridiculously creative.

 

[Shaeman111]

young link and adult link both!
^-^

 

[ChivalRuse]

young link and adult link both!
^-^

Yes, but I don't play Link.

 

[Laijin]

Here is how you beat a good Marth player with YL.
You won't.
Its simply the most impossible match up ever.
Okay not impossible just extremely hard.

Don't:
Play on small stages.
Approach without a projectile(he outranges everything)
Get combo'ed(cause you are dead in 1 or 2 combos)

Do:
Time your bombs for when he SHFFLs
Don't miss an opportunity to combo
ALWAYS get the edge guard no matter what. Absolutely KEY to winning this match(and any match in melee really).

 

[Cactuar]

Moonwalk bair is the secret to beating Marth with YL.



Edit:

Sorry, I meant: Arrow to moonwalk sh bair.

 

[AlcyoNite]

Moonwalk bair is the secret to beating Marth with YL.



Edit:

Sorry, I meant: Arrow to moonwalk sh bair.

Cactuar does not believe

 

[ChivalRuse]

Moonwalk bair is the secret to beating Marth with YL.



Edit:

Sorry, I meant: Arrow to moonwalk sh bair.

Arrow is Y.Link's most spammable projectile.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Marth is so gay lol. I normally play the matchup with bombs, bombs, more bombs and bomb to nair :/. I dont even bother much with rangs...since he can just swat them away with his ridiculous fair...

 

[Roche_CL]

i think marth isn't the worst matchup
i think sheik or falco/fox can be more anoying since their fast speed, marth is a little slower, more laggy, more punishable, easy Dsmash edgeguard if he doesnt sweetspot
Ylink is not that comboable, which ****s up marth a little bit, no grabs to something.
sheik is hella more horrible, lot harder to edgeguard, has easier combos on Ylink, grab to anything, speedo, etc.
Fox speed kills your spam, and can spam you too.
falco probably is "easier" because Dsmash on 70% and its over, but laser laser laser, shine Dair, shine Dair, horrible.

marth is grabable, comboable, edgeguardable, spacies and sheik are a lot harder to grab and combo.
well, thats IMO

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

I agree about Sheik and Fox. I think Marth can be a tad worse than Falco in the right hands though.

Honestly, I really dislike Mario/Doc the most I think. Ganondorf is kind of painful too cause it's like, wow I can combo this sucka, but he kills you in like three hits and you're like wtf, I was playing YL, now I'm sitting at the select screen again...

 

[ChivalRuse]

I think Marth is more annoying. The fact that he can just sit at the edge and repeatedly edgeguard you with fsmash / shieldbreaker is too homosexual. Also, he can outspace any of your approaches + he can swat away projectiles if they aren't bombs. Bombs take sometime to pull, and a smart Marth won't usually let you approach with bombs, because he can simply shield the bomb and wavedash backward OOS to reset the situation. If he really wants to, he can jump OOS and catch the bomb (EDIT: after it hits his shield and bounces straight up) to turn the situation around. So, yea, I think Marth is gayer.

Sure, Fox can spam nair shine on your shield, but if you stay in the air / waveland around the platforms, you can avoid his approaches to some extent and sort of negate the ability to break you down with pressure.

I don't really know about Sheik or Falco, but Falco is certainly easy to gimp. I don't really think there's anything you can do against Sheik except spam projectiles and outcamp her. I would typically just switch to Fox to take her out, because I dislike playing 2/8 matchups.

 

[rhan]

Who here hates the fact that in the Marth vs YLink matchup that it's basically camp or lose virginity? If Young Link doesn't camp his nuts off then Marth takes control. Even when camping Marth can swat away the projectiles so easily.

Fox is more fun to play against in my opinion. You can actually get in his face and do work.

 

[Laijin]

umm..thats how most of YL's matches are.
o_0
If you don't camp you die.
With Fox I just make him chase me the entire time while he hits projectiles.

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

The funny part is that Fox can just outcamp you the whole time. He forces you to come. Maybe you haven't played a Fox who plays your YL like you are Jiggs before but I have (EverlastingYay =_=) laser laser laser run laser laser till you're high enough, uthrow uair.

and if that's not bad enough, Fox can just over-run YL anyway. He doesn't even need to spam. At least Marth can't launch rapid-fire 2-3 percent lasers all over you while you struggle to keep up with his blinding speed and jumps.

Smart Fox isn't going to just run right into bombs and boomers (like the ones in my combo vid lulz) smart Fox is going to reflect ****, nair boomerangs, catch bombs, or just avoid them, and still pound your little link butt all day : (

I really don't like fighting Marth, though. At least with Fox it can be fun, but Marth is just such a whorebag it takes a lot of the fun out of the match.


and as for Sheik, ***** has the needles. that **** will break through anything. she just owns him.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Sheik is a b****. But I main Fox so she can go to Hades.

Personally, I want to know how you guys handle the Peach match-up. I know Y.Link semi counters Peach, I just don't know what to do. Help?

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

Semi counter tends to be a myth in my opinion. I'd say it's more like 4/6 if that. maybe even.

I did well against Mike G's Peach, which was once the best, and I'm definitely not the best YL ever, I just record cool-looking **** and make a video lol. Anyway, my experiences have been well. Similar to Samus in that you can kind of knock her around and spam her, while she is slower but not "TOO" slow. It's strange, that matchup.

I always get confused here. Is it better to take her to small stage or big stage? On small stages she dies fast but can also catch you easier. On big'ns, she stays alive but you can run and be like LOL BOMBS!!!

Point of matchup if I'm not mistaken is don't let her touch your shield, basically keep her out your face, throw stuff as usual, and deliver the **** dair/uair at right percents.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Semi counter tends to be a myth in my opinion. I'd say it's more like 4/6 if that. maybe even.

I did well against Mike G's Peach, which was once the best, and I'm definitely not the best YL ever, I just record cool-looking **** and make a video lol. Anyway, my experiences have been well. Similar to Samus in that you can kind of knock her around and spam her, while she is slower but not "TOO" slow. It's strange, that matchup.

I always get confused here. Is it better to take her to small stage or big stage? On small stages she dies fast but can also catch you easier. On big'ns, she stays alive but you can run and be like LOL BOMBS!!!

Point of matchup if I'm not mistaken is don't let her touch your shield, basically keep her out your face, throw stuff as usual, and deliver the **** dair/uair at right percents.

So a lot of hit and run, eh? Cool.

I find Peach falls prey to utilts often. I don't know why. Hm, well I definitely don't use enough bombs. I think I spam bairs more than nair lol

I'm ********. I just like how at low percents bair pseudo combos like crazy. I don't know. I'm weird like that. I also use more arrows than boomerangs because I hate the catching animation that always interrupts you.

I also don't dair enough against Peach.

There are like a million ways I could improve my performance in this match-up.

 

[Roche_CL]

i play a lot against a very good peach around here
no way you can aproach with an aerial if peachs on the ground, since Ylinks attacks are so **** short she will always CC Dsmash your face.
-Best aproach IMO, bait them for grab (using DD, SH to nothing, etc) or aproach and shield.
-camping her is always a good option, since Ylinks stuff will pop her up (if she doesnt CC) and make enough hitstun for you to land an Uair or even Dair if you predict well (more risky though)
-and if they aproach with floating, beware of Fair, and if you can, hit her with rising Nair. always be aware on having good spacing, since her nice hit recovery can be fastidious on low% beacuse of her fast and strong Nair.

small stages are always nice against peach, beacuse that counters her incredible recovery.
and yoshi story is very nice beacuse you can grab with hookshot when you are very low on the stage.
demonstration vid on that :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0QJV4v3D1M
on 1.46

although he 2 stocked me .... xD (sry dont have videos against peach)

well, hope that helped out

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

You can space fair well enough to not get CC dsmashed, but you're right not to approach. Just nail her with projectiles till the damage is high enough so she can't CC...

one thing that really sucks is that, if she is floating, even right above the ground, your hookshot will -NOT- grab her. it sucks mega balls when it happens. can probably still grab if you're right next to her. but it really sucks when they attack your shield and you grab, and they float and they're like LOL FREE FAIR

 

[ChivalRuse]

You can space fair well enough to not get CC dsmashed, but you're right not to approach. Just nail her with projectiles till the damage is high enough so she can't CC...

one thing that really sucks is that, if she is floating, even right above the ground, your hookshot will -NOT- grab her. it sucks mega balls when it happens. can probably still grab if you're right next to her. but it really sucks when they attack your shield and you grab, and they float and they're like LOL FREE FAIR

I like spacing fairs. The knockback is generally more consistent than nair.

I never really use fair against Peach, because it's 1. slow compared with nair and 2. doesn't combo Peach

Also the fact that it has a more reliable knockback isn't great because Peach will always recover, except in rare situations when you catch her napping and get her with a nair offstage.

I swear to goodness if uair had less lag when l-cancelled I would spam that move, but it's a little to laggy to be practical in combos.

Just think, if Uair had like Fox speed on recovery, you could probably combo a falling uair into a dair on Peach, and that would be awesome on like Yoshi's or PS.

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

You can do that on some characters, but not a goddess of recovery like Peachy -_-

I only mentioned Fair because you can use it to not get CC'd... the objective isn't to combo her at that point, only to damage. after her CC point is reached there isn't as much of a need for it.