Would you trade Eruption for Ragnell?

[thewiredknight]

Just something I was thinking about; Aether is the only real move of Ike's actually based on his moves from either Fire Emblem. Consequently he didn't even get Ragnell's distance technique.

For those unfamiliar with PoR or RD the technique involved Ike raising his sword in the air, slamming it down and a shockwave about Ike's height shot forward to the enemy.

So in game this would theoretically be a projectile about the same size as Ike and would go about the distance of Kirby's cutter projectile or at most Wolf's blaster. Tradeoff I figure would be eruption since it is based on nothing from the games, QD is infinetly useful and counter is a good balancing move from Ike's otherwise offensive set.

So if it were up to you, would you trade Eruption for an actual projectile for Ike even if it had some startup lag and not quite the range of other projectiles?

 

[Duker]

It sounds like eruption+a projectile to me...

 

[homicidalrapist]

i would trade counter for ragnell, i love eruption too much...

 

[XSilvenX]

I would DEFINITELY trade eruption for a short ranged power projectile...are you kidding me?! Eruption is so situational it's almost useless...sure the SAFs help at times let's be real, if it weren't for wifi most of you would not love eruption so much. Think about the possibilities with "Ragnell" for edgeguarding..it completely limits so many recovery techniques..your opponent would almost always be forced to recover under or over the stage. Pretty awesome...one can only dream though ^_~

 

[Vro]

It basically just sounds like Kirby's ^B. Theoretically, why wouldn't you just add the last projectile animation to Aether and leave it at that?

 

[COMMANDLIST]

Why would you want to go and do something as silly as that.

I mean yeah the counter has a long start up but it is an essential move. Besides the eruption is one of Ike's best edgegaurd. Jumping off the stage and using eruption is a great way to kill an opponent trying to return to the stage. I feel good watching their lifeless bodies floating away in the background after recieving a blow from the mighty ERUPTION.

So I wouldn't even think about trading eruption.

 

[thewiredknight]

Like I said, the only reason I chose eruption was because there is no logical basis for this move existing if you've ever played the FE games. It wasn't because I felt the move was useless or anything.

That said, the reason it wouldn't add to Aether is because Aether in the games never produced a projectile. It would be a lot like Kirby's projectile from cutter only without the ascension. Ike would raise his sword in the air, slam it down and produce the projectile (hence the move would have start lage like almost everything in his moveset.)

 

[Tenki]

Just something I was thinking about; Aether is the only real move of Ike's actually based on his moves from either Fire Emblem.

Watch one of the Final Boss battles in Radiant Dawn on youtube.

In the one where he does a two hit finisher attack, he does:

Side taunt > Quick draw > SH backwards > FHFF F-air.

Quickdraw is there.

and yes, the ranged move would have been cool, but he'd be a bit... superpowered.

 

[Lord Aether]

Quick Draw is kind of like his crit animation.

Ragnell Shockwave > Eruption. Eruption should've had blue fire if anything (same with Great Aether).

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

i would definetly trade it would problably be better for edge guarding. i also think that his final smash should have been something like when yune blessed him and he was covered in blue fire

 

[The Crotch]

I've commented on this before. The only reason that Ike has Eruption is because of Roy. And while it's been a long time since I played FE6, I can't recall Roy having any fire-based moves in that game, either. Yes, his sword was referred to in FE7 as "The Blazing Sword", but I don't think that had any effect on gameplay or even attack animations. Could be wrong. I'll replay FE6 some time to check, but... eh.

I'd trade Ike's Eruption for the long-ranged attack that he gained when he got the Ragnell in 9 and 10 in a second. All the other attacks make sense for Ike as a character.

Great Aether should heal him, though.

 

[YagamiLight]

I've commented on this before. The only reason that Ike has Eruption is because of Roy. And while it's been a long time since I played FE6, I can't recall Roy having any fire-based moves in that game, either. Yes, his sword was referred to in FE7 as "The Blazing Sword", but I don't think that had any effect on gameplay or even attack animations. Could be wrong. I'll replay FE6 some time to check, but... eh.

I'd trade Ike's Eruption for the long-ranged attack that he gained when he got the Ragnell in 9 and 10 in a second. All the other attacks make sense for Ike as a character.

Great Aether should heal him, though.

Roy's Criticals did have a lot of fire, or was that his ranged attack...? In any case, Roy indeed did have fire.

 

[The Crotch]

Really?

Dammit.

Well, I'll find another excuse for replaying FE6.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Roy's Criticals did have a lot of fire, or was that his ranged attack...? In any case, Roy indeed did have fire.

His critical hit definetly had fire. Here's a video of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myDYUpIoasE&feature=related

 

[JonaDiaper]

games done. moves are in. why try and ask for something that cant be done. its a discussion sure, but not a very productive one. ike has a projectile. himself when he does his side b. and you can charge it forever. sweet huh.

 

[Kiederen]

I've commented on this before. The only reason that Ike has Eruption is because of Roy. And while it's been a long time since I played FE6, I can't recall Roy having any fire-based moves in that game, either. Yes, his sword was referred to in FE7 as "The Blazing Sword", but I don't think that had any effect on gameplay or even attack animations. Could be wrong. I'll replay FE6 some time to check, but... eh.

I'd trade Ike's Eruption for the long-ranged attack that he gained when he got the Ragnell in 9 and 10 in a second. All the other attacks make sense for Ike as a character.

Great Aether should heal him, though.

Aye, both Roy's critical and his ranged attack used fire.

To the topic: yes, I would trade eruption for ragnell's shockwave attack. That kind of projectile was what I was hoping for before we learned his moveset. While I can't dispute that eruption is fun, it's not as useful as the projectile would be by a long shot.
I would've happily taken the shockwave effect tacked on the end of Aether too, even if it would make Ike similar to Kirby. That idea might be the middle ground: keep eruption, add shockwave to aether, though for balance, we might've had to trade off aether's super armor frames if it had a shockwave instead.

As for great aether healing: I understand where that's coming from but it seems like that would make it too unbalanced. I know it's a 'super move' but it's already practically one hit killing everything, has a deceptively long range on activation, and can damage/kill with its collateral damage on the final strike. To add healing to that would add insult to injury to the opponent. Ike's not out fighting a war anymore, so he would probably prefer to fight honorably, no?

games done. moves are in. why try and ask for something that cant be done. its a discussion sure, but not a very productive one. ike has a projectile. himself when he does his side b. and you can charge it forever. sweet huh.

Very true, we can't change it now. The whole topic's hypothetical, and for fun more than anything else. We don't have to be productive.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

games done. moves are in. why try and ask for something that cant be done. its a discussion sure, but not a very productive one. ike has a projectile. himself when he does his side b. and you can charge it forever. sweet huh.

its not rly a projectile since other projectiles can crash into each other and neither char gets dmged plus projectiles dont drag the person who fired them along but its true that we cant change anything its just another thing that screwed ike over

 

[Fire!]

I wouldn't, its a great when used near edges and the animation is cool too

 

[MASTER719]

Ike should've been himself from PoR for brawl. All around faster(especially counter) with the shockwave as his B move and his regular aether should've healed dmg = dmg given. Oh and his blue and black Lord costume. I can dream

 

[The Crotch]

As for great aether healing: I understand where that's coming from but it seems like that would make it too unbalanced. I know it's a 'super move' but it's already practically one hit killing everything, has a deceptively long range on activation, and can damage/kill with its collateral damage on the final strike. To add healing to that would add insult to injury to the opponent. Ike's not out fighting a war anymore, so he would probably prefer to fight honorably, no?

If we're talking about would-have, should-haves, it would have been very easy to just decrease the damage and/or knockback done to compensate for healing. Not saying that it would necessarily be better, just make more sense.

But then, Brawl Ike doesn't really fight like FE Ike at all, so whateva.

 

[WeLikeIke]

The Ragnell shoots about beams of light that go the same distance as a bow. If I were to change neutral B, it would lean towards that. Ragnell deals the same damage up close as from afar so it would make more sense for it to be short range but hard hitting. It could deal 5% damage uncharged and 15-20% damage fully charged. It could fly about half the distance or 3/4ths the distance of FD, fly slowly, and be relatively large: the size of Ike's body.

It should have knockback somewhat less than Din's fire and knock people low and away. I dunno if it should have slow start up or slow endlag but I'm leaning towards fast start up and slightly more end lag so that it's safe if it lands but not if it misses and forms a safe wall if the opponent is horizontally in front of you. If they are above, you get hit.

Since ike has to swing his sword to make the beam come out it does more damage and has more knockback in sword range. Since it has low startup, it would likely be a good alternative to neutral A.

This would add a great deal of versatility to Ike.

 

[Fenrir EX]

Not to mention combos. Dthrow -> Aether -> (Un)charged Ragnell Wave.

And he should have had his Lord costume as an alternate. I mean only Wario gets an alternative costume, what the heck?

 

[WeLikeIke]

Not to mention combos. Dthrow -> Aether -> (Un)charged Ragnell Wave.

And he should have had his Lord costume as an alternate. I mean only Wario gets an alternative costume, what the heck?

He should definitely have his Lord outfit.

 

[Lord Aether]

Or his FE10 outfits. I guess his blue one has a similar color scheme to Vanguard, but that's more or less it and I think it's modeling Sigurd more than himself.

But then, Brawl Ike doesn't really fight like FE Ike at all, so whateva.

Ftilt is like a few of his attacks (only slow) in FE9/10, bair is kind of like another one of his attacks in FE9/10, Quick Draw his critical hit animation, Aether is kind of obvious (the last slash from the games was taken out, though), although his third attack animation (slamming his sword straight down with one hand) is what they didn't incorporate. His other two attacks (turning around and attacking, and doing a basic horizontal slash) were, somewhat.

 

[Retroking2000]

eruption is in the game cant be changed just deal with it

**closes thread ** :D

 

[comboking]

isn't aether the one with a shockwave

 

[Taylor]

Black Knight was on the pre-production polls for Brawl. I guess they sort of combined the two?

 

[WeLikeIke]

Black Knight was on the pre-production polls for Brawl. I guess they sort of combined the two?

Definitely seems that way.

In FEoR Ike was faster that he was strong; his power came from the Luna portion of Aether.

Black Knight was the strong and slow one.

 

[Lord Omikron666]

It was one of the moves I was hoping Ike would get, then he would have truly been overpowered with a range attack.

 

[rarrl]

y would somebody trade counter , its my favorite move

 

[phi1ny3]

Quick Draw is kind of like his crit animation.

Ragnell Shockwave > Eruption. Eruption should've had blue fire if anything (same with Great Aether).

No, blue fire belongs to Lucario!

 

[Lord Aether]

That's Aura. And saying that clearly means you haven't played FE9 or FE10 (FE9 was "Traces of the Blue Flame" in Japan and in FE10's Japanese version, he was referred to as the "Hero of the Blue Flame")

 

[The Crotch]

Ftilt is like a few of his attacks (only slow) in FE9/10, bair is kind of like another one of his attacks in FE9/10, Quick Draw his critical hit animation, Aether is kind of obvious (the last slash from the games was taken out, though), although his third attack animation (slamming his sword straight down with one hand) is what they didn't incorporate. His other two attacks (turning around and attacking, and doing a basic horizontal slash) were, somewhat.

I was talking more about his... Gilliam-like... speed than his attack animations. His speed cap is **** high, and I've never had trouble hitting it.

And I'm assuming you mean QD was his FE9 critical hit - before I read through his Dojo page, I was willing to bet his Up+B would be his FE10 critical.

And you know, come to think of it, I'd be more-or-less cool with Eruption if the fire was blue.

 

[thewiredknight]

I know the game is done, this is just for discussion. That's it. Personally I would trade it since eruption is very situational (not useless, jsut situational) and it would cure what is easily one of Ike's biggest weaknesses making him a bit more competitive.

 

[Shadow5YA]

I wouldn't trade any of Ike's B moves since they all can be petty useful. However, I do wish quick draw worked differently. The fact that Ike can be punished after a simple roll or shield irks me.

 

[Lord Aether]

staight down sword -> third jab, just realized that.

And I'm assuming you mean QD was his FE9 critical hit - before I read through his Dojo page, I was willing to bet his Up+B would be his FE10 critical.

Yeah..

His speed cap is **** high, and I've never had trouble hitting it.

In FE10, it's high as hell but 35% growth is pretty average.

Since this is just theoretical discussion and in no means a plea to make Ike better... imagine Ike faster. Like, as fast as melee ganondorf or captain falcon... too good.

 

[rtmcs1017]

I'd trade Ike's counter for it. Ike can play defensively without his counter and it seems like they added it for the Roy fans of Melee (even though Ike's counter isn't as good as Roy's was in terms of knockback and damage.)

Either way, Ike is awesome.

 

[Lord Aether]

I'd actually do something else with Ike's counter. Like make it activate sooner.

 

[Sosuke]

Yes, cuz then Ike would be broken

 

[Rykoshet]

No more broken than marth, counter is one of those things that you just whip out so rarely that when it does go off it better be killing someone.