Would you support per-player input buffering?

[Terotrous]

Until you can learn to empathize with the people who enjoy the game with the technical aspect to it, there is no point trying to spell it out to you.

I appreciate that some people don't want buffering, which is why each player should be able to choose if they have it or not. If you don't want your inputs to be buffered, you can choose not to use it.

If you're asking whether I appreciate the fact that some people want other people not to have the option to use buffering, I don't. No one should want to exclude people from being able to play the game.

With more people being able to play the game well, you would have more good opponents to play against. Also, with the game being easier to learn, you could take the time you would be spending to polish up your one character and use it to learn another character. How is this not better?

 

[DrinkingFood]

No really can you just stop

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Mhm, and you know what? I still have hundreds of more hours to go c: What fun is a goal when the road to it is easy?

Also, its not as if I ONLY practice Wavedashing xD Wavelanding, Tech chasing, DACUS, Ledge guarding tactics, SHFFLing, recovery options, and even some Ganon specific tech such as the Arty Vortex and Flame Choke chasing. c:

So because YOU as an individual wants to be able to play a a top tier level without practicing at all, the people like me who like having to actually, i dont know..put EFFORT into getting better get that taken from them?

You are more than welcome to play in a simple, tech free manner, but dont expect TOURNAMENTS that have MONEY on the line to be a be a game that anyone could simply walk in and play at a level equal to that of someone who has played for years.


Actually, if you want to play a Smash game without a bunch of tech skill needed, just play Vanilla Brawl xD

 

[Prince Longstrok]

double post, my bad

 

[DrinkingFood]

If you guys stop responding seriously he won't have anyone to ***** to anymore about the game not catering to his lack of tech skill

 

[Terotrous]

No really can you just stop

No but you're welcome to go to another topic if you have nothing to contribute.

You are more than welcome to play in a simple, tech free manner, but dont expect TOURNAMENTS that have MONEY on the line to be a be a game that anyone could simply walk in and play at a level equal to that of someone who has played for years.

You are aware this is not the case, right?

I welcome you to pick up Divekick and immediately face me online. We'll see how long it takes you to beat me in this zero execution game.

As was said before, matchup knowledge, decision making, reads, spacing, and all that other stuff would still separate good players from bad.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

If you guys stop responding seriously he won't have anyone to ***** to anymore about the game not catering to his lack of tech skill

But when the yellow flag shows up I feel obligated to respond :C

 

[Pickledpotatoes]

I appreciate that some people don't want buffering, which is why each player should be able to choose if they have it or not. If you don't want your inputs to be buffered, you can choose not to use it.

If you're asking whether I appreciate the fact that some people want other people not to have the option to use buffering, I don't. No one should want to exclude people from being able to play the game.

With more people being able to play the game well, you would have more good opponents to play against. Also, with the game being easier to learn, you could take the time you would be spending to polish up your one character and use it to learn another character. How is this not better?

The last thing I have to say in this thread is that son, that is not a thing that I typed.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Did you really just challenge someone to divekick lol
***** Skype me we will have a staring contest, we'll see how long you last without fundamentals

 

[Prince Longstrok]

No but you're welcome to go to another topic if you have nothing to contribute.



You are aware this is not the case, right?

I welcome you to pick up Divekick and immediately face me online. We'll see how long it takes you to beat me in this zero execution game.

I welcome you to start playing Divekick competitively instead of PM since you seem to like the way it plays soo much more.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Did you really just challenge someone to divekick lol
***** Skype me we will have a staring contest, we'll see how long you last without fundamentals

Make it a MM for funsies!

 

[Terotrous]

I welcome you to start playing Divekick competitively instead of PM since you seem to like the way it plays soo much more.

Oh, there's a definite reason that Divekick and Smash are the two fighting games I put the most time into.

That being said, once you experience the value of removing the execution barrier it's hard to go back. Any time you lose a match in Divekick, you know it's because you did something stupid, not because you missed a link or whatever. And that makes you immediately want to get back in there and not do something stupid the next time.

 

[Paradoxium]

However, not everyone has 500 hours to put into a game in order to reach the fun part

You are absolutely correct. No one should have to put in time and effort to be good at something.

Now how about those wifi matches?

Ps- it shouldn't be easy to reach the highest level of play

 

[DrinkingFood]

I haven't blinked since I challenged you so you already heave a head start come on don't be a *****

Also if you put in 500 hours and can't wavedash right then ROFL

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin109276.html

This topic should be locked.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Oh, there's a definite reason that Divekick and Smash are the two fighting games I put the most time into.

That being said, once you experience the value of removing the execution barrier it's hard to go back.

Look, Im one of those people who didnt even know Melee was played competitively until like.. a year ago. Hell, Ididnt know what the hell a wa vedash WAS, and I thought that SURELY someone hacked the game to make people move around like that.

I seriously could NOT see why people hated Brawl, because coming from a purely casual playing style, Brawl was like a goldmine.
I recently went back abotu a week ago to play SSE (was with a friend, was doing it for funsies), and after having played PM, I IMMEDIATELY saw WHY people hated Brawl.

Smash is already that golden standard in "easy to play, difficult to master" fighter. Making it harder to get into, or easier to master is only going to hinder it.

 

[Terotrous]

You are absolutely correct. No one should have to put in time and effort to be good at something.

Now how about those wifi matches?

I'm not exactly sure how you think that supports your argument in any way. If you win, that just supports the positionthat grinding out ATs confers a big advantage. The only way you could hurt my argument would be to lose.

 

[Vashimus]

Yeah Terotrous, it's kind of futile to argue against you at this point. You are thinking of Parmenio, and I of Alexander. I gotta bow out.

 

[Paradoxium]

I'm not exactly sure how you think that supports your argument in any way. If you win, that just supports the positionthat grinding out ATs confers a big advantage. The only way you could hurt my argument would be to lose.

I don't want to play you to prove a point or anything I just wanna play you for the sake of it lol

 

[Prince Longstrok]

I haven't blinked since I challenged you so you already heave a head start come on don't be a *****

Also if you put in 500 hours and can't wavedash right then ROFL

Assuming thats targeted at me-

Ill miss about 1 or 2 wavedashes a match these days. Would you rather me lie and say "OH MAN IVE PRACTICED ABOUT 2-3 HUNDRED HOURS AND NOW I AM LITERALLY PERFECT"


Humility, my friend. There is always a way to improve.

 

[Terotrous]

Look, Im one of those people who didnt even know Melee was played competitively until like.. a year ago. Hell, Ididnt know what the hell a wa vedash WAS, and I thought that SURELY someone hacked the game to make people move around like that.

I seriously could NOT see why people hated Brawl, because coming from a purely casual playing style, Brawl was like a goldmine.
I recently went back abotu a week ago to play SSE (was with a friend, was doing it for funsies), and after having played PM, I IMMEDIATELY saw WHY people hated Brawl.

And I'm the reverse. I was aware of competitive Smash for a long time, and I disliked Brawl almost right off the bat for its horrible balance. I started using Brawl+ the moment it was available, then moved to BBrawl after it fell apart.

That being said, I never wanted to go back to Melee, with its very limited number of viable characters and over-reliance on executional barriers. PM is much better in that regard, but I still think the increased focus on highly technical inputs hurts the game. Smash is at its best when you're focused on spacing, reactions, mind games, etc, not precisely timing your inputs so your moves work properly.

 

[DrinkingFood]

If you guys stop responding seriously he won't have anyone to ***** to anymore about the game not catering to his lack of tech skill

Also no I wasn't talking to you kratos

 

[Rᴏb]

Someone make a mod for OP

where you can only wave and dash
cal it dashwave

two inputs might be too many though, dat tech skill requirement. my grandma should be able to compete with me damnit!

 

[DrinkingFood]

No, stop, even satire is too serious

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Someone make a mod for OP

where you can only wave and dash
cal it dashwave

two inputs might be too many though, dat tech skill requirement. my grandma should be able to compete with me damnit!

My dog should be able to JV4 me. :\

 

[Paradoxium]

I think a full rack of Baby Back Ribs is better than a plate of Buffalo wild wings.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

how i feel about terotrous

 

[DrinkingFood]

I think a full rack of Baby Back Ribs is better than a plate of Buffalo wild wings.

Mah boi

 

[Rᴏb]

Satire too serious? my tech skill is too serious; wdwdwdwdwd
10 inputs a minute *****. took me 500 hours to master that.

Buffalo wild wings sucks unless you're strictly going for quantity.

 

[Terotrous]

I don't want to play you to prove a point or anything I just wanna play you for the sake of it lol

I suppose I could but I'd have to switch to the Wifi codebase. I'm trying to find the thread that explains how to do that since the launcher still doesn't let you do it.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I'm going to sleep now so I won't be able to continue the ****posting so I hope somebody else can **** up this thread in my place

 

[Saito]

No, because if it was they would have kept it in Brawl and Smash 4. Sakurai has even specifically said that he didn't like the mechanic and the way it centralized the metagame around the execution of that technique.

It may be the case that a programmer who worked on Melee knew that the technique existed, but that doesn't mean it was part of the original design, and I would gather Sakurai himself didn't know about it. Of course, considering Sakurai seems to have been responsible for most of the balance decisions regarding Melee and Brawl, it's quite possible he knows very little about how the game actually works.

Source on the bolded please..

Never have I heard him claim that he didn't like the technique.
Moreso that he wanted to level the playing field between advanced players and beginner players.

Nintendo Power: This is one that a lot of hardcore Smash Bros. fans have long wondered about. Was the ablility to "Wavedash" in Melee intentional or a glitch?

Sakurai: Of course, we noticed that you could do that during the development period. With Super Smash Bros. Brawl, it wasn't a matter of, "OK, do we leave it in or do we take it out?"

We really just wanted this game, again, to appeal to and be played by gamers of all different levels. We felt that there was a growing gap between beginners and advanced players, and taking that out helps to level the playing field. It wasn't a big priority or anything, but when we were building the game around the idea of making it fair for everybody, it just made sense to take it out.

And it also goes back to wanting to make something different from Melee and giving players the opportunity to find new things to enjoy.

 

[Paradoxium]

I suppose I could but I'd have to switch to the Wifi codebase. I'm trying to find the thread that explains how to do that since the launcher still doesn't let you do it.

We are probably gonna end up playing tomorrow anyways, and winning doesn't really matter because there is so much delay. It's really just for kicks and giggles

 

[Paradoxium]

Terotrous confirmed Sakurai

 

[Paradoxium]

Whoopsie daisys I triple posted!

 

[Terotrous]

We are probably gonna end up playing tomorrow anyways, and winning doesn't really matter because there is so much delay. It's really just for kicks and giggles

I found it, it's on the main PM homepage. I'm downloading the wifi set now. I do expect it to be laggy nonsense though.

Now is probably best because I'm likely going to be busy for a lot of the rest of the weekend.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Saito, I love you.

Tero.

Wavedashing is not as hard as you make it out to be.

It is intuitive enough. It is facetious to say "Wavedashing is jumping then air-dodging into the ground it makes no sense!" It is actually this: Transferring aerial momentum into grounded momentum. It's not analogous to much in the real world, but neither is jumping a second time in mid-air. Games take liberties sometimes.

Wavedashing is simply a matter of player ingenuity: We noticed that you can move in this manner through the games innate momentum transfer mechanics and applied it to our game. Just as we noticed we could jump shorter and use our wider, stronger or quicker aerial attacks at close to ground level, and applied it to our game. Just as we noticed you could grab someone again after using a low-knockback throw, and applied it to our game. And again, Wavedashing was discovered at a time where the cutting-edge way to play Marth was to roll a lot and spam FSmash with the C-Stick. With items.

Stop pretending it's something it isn't, or ask for all varying inputs to be automated.

 

[Terotrous]

Wavedashing is simply a matter of player ingenuity: We noticed that you can move in this manner through the games innate momentum transfer mechanics and applied it to our game. Just as we noticed we could jump shorter and use our wider, stronger or quicker aerial attacks at close to ground level, and applied it to our game. Just as we noticed you could grab someone again after using a low-knockback throw, and applied it to our game. And again, Wavedashing was discovered at a time where the cutting-edge way to play Marth was to roll a lot and spam FSmash with the C-Stick. With items.

No part of this explains in any way why buffering is bad.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Saito, I love you.

Tero.

Wavedashing is not as hard as you make it out to be.

It is intuitive enough. It is facetious to say "Wavedashing is jumping then air-dodging into the ground it makes no sense!" It is actually this: Transferring aerial momentum into grounded momentum. It's not analogous to much in the real world, but neither is jumping a second time in mid-air. Games take liberties sometimes.

Wavedashing is simply a matter of player ingenuity: We noticed that you can move in this manner through the games innate momentum transfer mechanics and applied it to our game. Just as we noticed we could jump shorter and use our wider, stronger or quicker aerial attacks at close to ground level, and applied it to our game. Just as we noticed you could grab someone again after using a low-knockback throw, and applied it to our game. And again, Wavedashing was discovered at a time where the cutting-edge way to play Marth was to roll a lot and spam FSmash with the C-Stick. With items.

Stop pretending it's something it isn't, or ask for all varying inputs to be automated.

That just makes me wonder what life would be like with wavedashing...

 

[Prince Longstrok]

No part of this explains in any way why buffering is bad.

YOU HAVE BUFFERING THOUGH! YOU SAID IT YOURSELF D:<

just turn it on!