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Oh, sorry for the mistake then.
And seeing people screw up difficult things is the exact opposite of exciting. You want to talk football? How long did you stick it out with this year's superbowl? Denver played one of the sloppiest games ever, and the end result was one of the most boring Superbowl's in history. It's far more interesting to see a game where both teams play well and keep it close.
I will permit some degree of execution difficulty in games where the control scheme in intended to mimic a real life activity, such as DDR or Motion Control games like Skate It. Smash Bros is not one of those things, however.
Then explain why it would hurt the game if some degree of buffering was implemented.
Yea its really unfair when one person doesn't practice and there execution is terrible and they lose because of it. Rather than making them practice lets just make it easier for them, i think everyone should have a better chance at winning. We should make everything easier so newer players can jump right in with little to no practice.
That right there is the core of why people are against this idea. If everyone could do these techniques consistently, you might have to work harder to win. If you were really confident in your fundamentals, you would realize that giving everyone the tools to do well doesn't reduce the competitiveness of the game.
I think it will be the reverse, eventually you'll get older and have less time to spend playing games and you'll start to see why executional barriers are a bad thing.
Ya know, there's a reason M2K, Ally, and other skilled players beat people who still have good tech skill. It's because they're better at reads than their opponents are. Lowering tech skill barriers doesn't automatically make it so anyone can win - Brawl has had the theoretically lowest tech skill barrier of all (ICs and item control shenanigans excluded, though item stuff isn't that hard and ICs can still be learned), but it became much more about how well you can read someone's moves and punish. I think that's what the OP is getting at, and you fundamentally disagree that games should be decided at the mental level (that is, execution of what you want to achieve should matter - if you SD a wavedash you deserve to lose, is probably your argument). As a result, I don't think this thread will ultimately change anyone's minds and therefore is mostly a fruitless effort to hash out a divide that won't move anywhere.Paradoxium said:
Aniki. You're incorrect on this point.DrinkingFood said:
We are doing wifi tonight, i invite you to come play with us
Yes, this is exactly it. At very high levels of play, tech skill becomes irrelevant and skills like reads, matchup knowledge, and smart split-section decision making are what decide the game. These are the matches that are exciting to play and to watch. However, this level is not accessible to most because it takes a massive amount of technical grinding before you can achieve this level of control over the game. Allowing more people to play the game at this level would be good for the scene because more people could experience what makes Smash such a fun game.
There's quite a few strong Brawl players who don't use wavedash extensively in PM and yet still do well.
Simplifying wavedashing would not accomplish this though?
It'd certainly help. There may be other issues as well, like DACUS, which also requires very good timing. If you were to enable the input buffering it would help with virtually all of the mechanics that require precisely timed inputs.
And do you know what you're not doing while you're working on your timing? Playing good matches and having fun with the game.
No duh Mario Kart is more popular because it actually comes out with games nowadays, and thus keeps getting new fans.
So people can't have fun while trying to improve?
Those matches are called "friendlies", my friend. Those are the matches when I invite my friends over to play my "mash up" build (Every character has 5+ textures from brawlvault that are completely random characters from games and anime and such). Those are the matches when we put all items on high and play and stages like shadow moses. If you really only cared about having fun, then you wouldnt give a damn about how hard or easy Wavedashing is.
It was still more popular when those games were active.
Then how do you explain SF2 being popular, which had a grand total of 3 characters carried over from SF1?
I've answered it a ton of times. If it's not that hard, then why does it matter if we make it a little easier?Yo @Terotrous what's your opinion on the majority of people here saying that wavedashing really isn't that hard?
'Cause it seems you've been ignoring that alittlelot.
When improving involves grinding out combos or motions by yourself in training mode, typically not.
Oh, you mean the countless brawl players that still whine about the melee community being big meanies to them when they actually stopped doing that a long time ago, not to mention that the majority just said what they had to say and then went back to Maylay? You mean the countless brawl players that still think wavedashing is a glitch and it's unfair bc your breaking the game? You mean maylays heyday when they thought falcon was too cRAzzY to use and doing any aerial attack while recovering would give you some kind of boost?
And you've been playing for 3 months, so that's about what, 200-300 hours of lab time? That seems like a lot considering how easy these techs apparently are to perform.
Lol, you're the one going all Godwin's law here. Everyone who disagrees with me is a nazi!
It would be so insignificant of a change it wouldn't be worth implementing, why fix what isn't broken? It seems to me that you just don't like the idea of this game requiring tech skill, which is fine, but your desires will never be realized. Having tech skill is an aspect of this game that people practice and take advantage of in order to get better at the game and its been like this for over a decade, it makes no sense to change it now. It's part of the game.
Fun fact: The change I'm talking about is actually already in the game. Go into the "more rules" in the options menu, then turn on input assistance. You now how buffered inputs. Put character select on random and observe how consistently you can wavedash, even if you don't play that character.
Mhm, and you know what? I still have hundreds of more hours to go c: What fun is a goal when the road to it is easy?
It's a pretty general consensus that the most fun you can have with any fighting game is playing at a high level vs other high level players. That's why people put in the time to reach that level. However, not everyone has 500 hours to put into a game in order to reach the fun part.
Wavedashing getting mapped to a button is the change I was referring to.
I will accept that that's probably impractical. It's a workaround to a fundamental issue that the PM team can't really fix. However, the buffering already exists and also achieves largely the same goal.
If the buffer option was available to every player, do you think everyone would use it? I think that's a legitimate question. There are some definite drawbacks, like potentially unintended inputs, and certain option selects would not work properly using buffering because the whole trick is that depending on the situation your move might not come out (though, there might be other, different option selects that would only be possible with buffering on).
