! WORLD SMASH HIP-HOP ! Rap/HipHop/R&B/ Discussion Thread (explicit warning)

[MBlaze]

You're seriously comparing Illmatic with Reasonable Doubt...?

 

[Niko45]

i had a feeling the general consensus would be illmatic but the two are still comparable.

Yea actually I threw on some RD right after that post cause I hadn't listened to it in a while...so good, idk what to pick. They hit me in different ways though.

life's a ***** is dope. people keep sayin nas got ate up by az on there, though. i don't really think so but cheah. random hip hop note: nas wrote NY State Of Mind when he was 17 0_0.

Both verses absolutely bodied. Maybe AZ got it. Not by much, though, if so.

Which reminds me, does anybody listen to AZ here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AqW-lzUs7k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6yqEwx2zYA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_m-reH0tyk

Def has some bangin tracks.

i hate when dudes listen to an album once and think they know its ins and outs smh.

DEFINITELY agree. These types of albums with this much depth take so long to really get a good sense of in my experience...like months at least. You can't just listen to an RD, Ready to Die, or Illmatic once just to say you've listened to it and think you know what it's all about.

I actually was a huge Jay hater at one point but I got hooked on RD so seriously. Played it like non-stop for 6 months before I burned out on it so badly.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

hmmmm haven't listened to ready to die yet....

i had a feeling the general consensus would be illmatic but the two are still comparable.

life's a ***** is dope. people keep sayin nas got ate up by az on there, though. i don't really think so but cheah. random hip hop note: nas wrote NY State Of Mind when he was 17 0_0.

i'll come back with my ready to die review in a few hours. gotta let it play through a couple times. i hate when dudes listen to an album once and think they know its ins and outs smh.


boofy, you listen to joe? are you in that mood yet?

az's verse was dope... but nas wasnt murked on that. nas had that dope laid back flow.

O.O wow that dude is insane.

and ready to die is dope. people overrate biggie because of it (Top 5 for a lot of people: 1) 2Pac 2) Biggie... etc) my favorite track on it is suicidal thoughts, standout tracks are suicidal thoughts, juicy, machine gun funk, who shot ya (im west coast but the first two lines of his first verse is sooo dope). its not like the best album ever, but he has really good lyricism.

You're seriously comparing Illmatic with Reasonable Doubt...?

agreed, but still comparable... illmatic is just too good though.

and i think that you get the sense of an album after like 10 plays when youre really listening. it doesnt matter how many times, i mean it has to be at least 4 or 5, but if you really listen the whole thing, every word, you'll get an idea.

 

[Niko45]

and ready to die is dope. people overrate biggie because of it (Top 5 for a lot of people: 1) 2Pac 2) Biggie... etc) my favorite track on it is suicidal thoughts, standout tracks are suicidal thoughts, juicy, machine gun funk, who shot ya (im west coast but the first two lines of his first verse is sooo dope). its not like the best album ever, but he has really good lyricism.

Those tracks don't "stand out" anymore than any of the others....whole album is killed. Biggie is pretty comfortably top 5 imo btw.

and i think that you get the sense of an album after like 10 plays when youre really listening. it doesnt matter how many times, i mean it has to be at least 4 or 5, but if you really listen the whole thing, every word, you'll get an idea.

Maybe a sense, but to "master" it takes forever. You need to take breaks from it. Sleep on it. Come back to it. Fall in love with it all over again. Etc.

 

[MBlaze]

Yea actually I threw on some RD right after that post cause I hadn't listened to it in a while...so good, idk what to pick. They hit me in different ways though.



Both verses absolutely bodied. Maybe AZ got it. Not by much, though, if so.

Which reminds me, does anybody listen to AZ here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AqW-lzUs7k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6yqEwx2zYA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_m-reH0tyk

Def has some bangin tracks.



DEFINITELY agree. These types of albums with this much depth take so long to really get a good sense of in my experience...like months at least. You can't just listen to an RD, Ready to Die, or Illmatic once just to say you've listened to it and think you know what it's all about.

I actually was a huge Jay hater at one point but I got hooked on RD so seriously. Played it like non-stop for 6 months before I burned out on it so badly.

Lol on one of the comments on those vids someone said AZ is way better than Nas. smfh.......

Like AZ is ridiculously underrated and one of the ones that are up there, but better than Nas? Nah.

 

[Jane]

RD > illmatic

Spoiler

by an EXTREMELY close margin

thats all i really want to say, since im already mad bored with all the nas and jay z talk lol

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Those tracks don't "stand out" anymore than any of the others....whole album is killed. Biggie is pretty comfortably top 5 imo btw.



Maybe a sense, but to "master" it takes forever. You need to take breaks from it. Sleep on it. Come back to it. Fall in love with it all over again. Etc.

i wouldnt say that he's top 5... only two albums. not THAT good. hes good but was made a martyr so people say hes a legend.

Eh. It depends. For example, I've heard Train of Thought maybe 20, 30 times. I know every track, I can pull random quotes of it out at any time, etc. I would say I've mastered the album. I know it through and through.

But I know what you mean, rediscovering the album is great.

Lol on one of the comments on those vids someone said AZ is way better than Nas. smfh.......

Like AZ is ridiculously underrated and one of the ones that are up there, but better than Nas? Nah.

i agree. AZ is good but not better than Nas...

RD > illmatic

Spoiler

by an EXTREMELY close margin

thats all i really want to say, since im already mad bored with all the nas and jay z talk lol

eh. it all comes down to preference. Nas' lyricism > Jay's thhough.

 

[Jane]

i wouldnt say nas' lyricism is better than jays as far as rd and illmatic. lyricism is a big "category" (for lack of better wording... i cant think of the word i want to use)

lyricism is the whole reason the two albums get compared so much, because theyre so close.

on a somewhat different point, both albums also have near perfect production. as far as production of the albums, i couldnt choose a favorite, its that hard.


but yeah youre right its like vanilla vs chocolate lol.

 

[IAmBlu3]

Which reminds me, does anybody listen to AZ here?

i listen to AZ. i've only listened to Doe or Die and AWOL. DoD was dope. AWOL had a few shiners on there.

AZ's Chillin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtmDsJs8JDA

Rather Unique <---that crack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0PccPy_pTM

AWOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iWvKvUW8DY&feature=related

Format <----Premo beat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl9NzwTZwXs

The Come Up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIhxgeki3BQ&feature=related

thats all i really want to say, since im already mad bored with all the nas and jay z talk lol

do you have a favorite rapper? let's talk about that *****

edit - this track with Biggie and Method Man is surprising seeing as Ghost and Rae didn't like Biggie.

 

[Niko45]

The beef came later after Big became King of NY.

The "only 2 albums" argument is ********. Both great albums, and one is a double album. Plus he's got bad boy collabs, remixes, posthumous. There's plenty of Biggie material out there, and yes he is that good. This thread is sleeping on Jay and Big so badly.

And I agree with Jane, to say Nas's lyricism is just better than Jay's seems really unthoughtful. Jay's style is much different. Nas is very in your face with his lyricism, Jay is more subtle, more metaphors, double-meanings, punchlines, etc. I mean, are you just counting how many big words they each use? :/

@Blu yea I picked up an AZ greatest hits CD for like 2 bucks a couple years back to see what he was all about. I haven't heard any albums fully, but he def has some tracks, but I found his material got kinda repetitive after a while so I never was hooked to the point where I wanted to actually get his full albums. I just throw in the tracks of his that I like every now and then to mix it up. I hadn't heard that AWOL track, tho, so good looks.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

i wouldnt say nas' lyricism is better than jays as far as rd and illmatic. lyricism is a big "category" (for lack of better wording... i cant think of the word i want to use)

lyricism is the whole reason the two albums get compared so much, because theyre so close.

on a somewhat different point, both albums also have near perfect production. as far as production of the albums, i couldnt choose a favorite, its that hard.


but yeah youre right its like vanilla vs chocolate lol.

eh. Nas has had so many classic verses. yeah, lyricism is based on a lot of things, but Nas is just like... ****.
The only track I really love on RD is 22-Two's.it was hella raw.

also the production on RD is good, but it doesnt really suit Jay...

The beef came later after Big became King of NY.

The "only 2 albums" argument is ********. Both great albums, and one is a double album. Plus he's got bad boy collabs, remixes, posthumous. There's plenty of Biggie material out there, and yes he is that good. This thread is sleeping on Jay and Big so badly.

And I agree with Jane, to say Nas's lyricism is just better than Jay's seems really unthoughtful. Jay's style is much different. Nas is very in your face with his lyricism, Jay is more subtle, more metaphors, double-meanings, punchlines, etc. I mean, are you just counting how many big words they each use? :/

Eh. They were great albums, but I feel you can't say someone is Top 5 if they only had a couple albums. For example. I would never say that Nas is Top 5 if I were there when Illmatic came out, or even after It Was Written. You can't really judge if someone is Top 5 material after only a couple albums.

And nah. I wouldn't say unthoughtful, but Nas' lyrics are more... far out, so to speak. A lot of multiple-rhymes, philosophical things "through the lights, cameras and action, cameras, glitter and gold, I unfold the scroll, plant seeds to stampede the globe" that one line there is just dope to the fullest. It represents ignoring the media and material things and giving knowledge to the youth so that they'll live successful lives. Jay-Z is more subtle, but Nas is just more... crazy. It's like you can't touch him. Jay-Z is good, but I consider Nas more lyrical.

 

[Niko45]

The fact that Biggie (along with Nas) revolutionized the game and set an unprecedented standard of lyricism, flow, and swag for all rapper to come after means much more than...his album count. No point in arguing, I just disagree. I also recommend giving RD some more listens cause I don't really agree with just about anything you say about RD. No hate, though, I just disagree.

And that Nas line is a great example of how lyrical he is but the problem is HE'S FULL OF ****. HE WASN'T KICKING ANY KNOWLEDGE. HE WAS ON SOME MAFIOSO **** LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. So yea, on the surface Nas is more lyrical imo, but Jay has more depth and is still extremely lyrical even if not quite as abstract as that. Jay's rhyme schemes are also more unique/complex cause his flow is a bit more "shapeless" than Nas'. So it depends how much you take into account when judging their "lyricism."

 

[IAmBlu3]

The beef came later after Big became King of NY.

And I agree with Jane, to say Nas's lyricism is just better than Jay's seems really unthoughtful. Jay's style is much different. Nas is very in your face with his lyricism, Jay is more subtle, more metaphors, double-meanings, punchlines, etc. I mean, are you just counting how many big words they each use? :/

damm. you responded before i could edit my post. kinda realized they'd have to see ready to die's album cover in order to say biggie was stealing it from nas.

jay doesn't do double meaning lines.

Spoiler

he does triple entendres...don't ask him how...

"through the lights, cameras and action, cameras, glitter and gold, I unfold the scroll, plant seeds to stampede the globe"

Deja Vu/ Verbal Intercourse

 

[cookieM0Nster]

The fact that Biggie (along with Nas) revolutionized the game and set an unprecedented standard of lyricism, flow, and swag for all rapper to come after means much more than...his album count. No point in arguing, I just disagree. I also recommend giving RD some more listens cause I don't really agree with just about anything you say about RD. No hate, though, I just disagree.

And that Nas line is a great example of how lyrical he is but the problem is HE'S FULL OF ****. HE WASN'T KICKING ANY KNOWLEDGE. HE WAS ON SOME MAFIOSO **** LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. So yea, on the surface Nas is more lyrical imo, but Jay has more depth and is still extremely lyrical even if not quite as abstract as that. Jay's rhyme schemes are also more unique/complex cause his flow is a bit more "shapeless" than Nas'. So it depends how much you take into account when judging their "lyricism."

eh. i disagree too. ive tried to get into RD but i cant really. even the lyricism doesn't strike me as really appealing.

no doubt jay is lyrical. they have different styles. i prefer the more abstract, artistic style, and you prefer jay's flow and subtler style. but no hate of course. just disagreeing.

Deja Vu/ Verbal Intercourse

deja vu?

 

[IAmBlu3]

deja vu?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-7ZtDoyieU

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
nas originally used that verse on here. whole song is crack. has that classic feel to it.

 

[MBlaze]

When I'm rating an album I'm mostly looking at he lyrical ability, flow and stuff like that so yeah. I couldn't give a **** if someone came on a sloppy *** put together bull**** barney theme beat for all I care, as long as they did they thing with the lyrics we good lmao. But of course I don't mean it to that degree, but if even if the beat is wack I'm no really holding it against the artist and penalizing the album for the producer's fault.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-7ZtDoyieU

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
nas originally used that verse on here. whole song is crack. has that classic feel to it.

never heard about his demo tape.

 

[IAmBlu3]

but if even if the beat is wack I'm no really holding it against the artist and penalizing the album for the producer's fault.

respectfully disagree. it's the artist's fault if the beat sucks. you can always just go to another producer if you don't like someone's beats. nas' needs someone to oversee his beat productions. hell, go pick up kanye or premier. he keeps working with salaam remi. he can crank out a good beat every now and then but nas really has to stop working with him so much.

 

[MBlaze]

never heard about his demo tape.

I just never downloaded it... I should get around to that lol.

respectfully disagree. it's the artist's fault if the beat sucks. you can always just go to another producer if you don't like someone's beats. nas' needs someone to oversee his beat productions. hell, go pick up kanye or premier. he keeps working with salaam remi. he can crank out a good beat every now and then but nas really has to stop working with him so much.

Oh yeah I forgot they have the choice.. guess so then lol.. I see ya point.

I guess, it can't hold that precedence over lyrics though imo. ;\

 

[~N9NE~]

idk if this has been posted yet but this is my first time seeing it..

MM4 Tracklist and Features

http://www.defsounds.com/articles/Joe_budden_mood_muzik_4_tracklisting_x_features

*Reads*

*Faints*

 

[IAmBlu3]

I guess, it can't hold that precedence over lyrics though imo. ;\

oh i'm not saying the beat is more important than the lyrics but sometimes, the lyrics are just too good to waste over shi*ty/boring beats. example:

Nas - Ghetto Prisoners (Second and Third verse are dope.....but that beat is meh)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kAURKSfh7o

*Reads*

*Faints*

i don't want royce on that track with fab and banks. all he's been doing lately is rapping about his d*ck.

 

[MBlaze]

oh i'm not saying the beat is more important than the lyrics but sometimes, the lyrics are just too good to waste over shi*ty/boring beats. example:

Nas - Ghetto Prisoners (Second and Third verse are dope.....but that beat is meh)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kAURKSfh7o


i don't want royce on that track with fab and banks. all he's been doing lately is rapping about his d*ck.

Yeah I feel what you saying then.

Ghetto Prisoners beat only got my attention during the chorus when he was sayin rise, I liked that part can't even lie lol.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

also a dudes voice on a track affects whether its good or not. well take aesop rock. his voice sucks ***. but he has good lyrics. but his voice makes it unable for me to listen to.

imma write to electric relaxation.

 

[IAmBlu3]

also a dudes voice on a track affects whether its good or not. well take aesop rock. his voice sucks ***. but he has good lyrics.

i've never been able to meddle through that shit to actually know if he has good lyrics.

 

[~N9NE~]

i don't want royce on that track with fab and banks. all he's been doing lately is rapping about his d*ck.

Lately as in the past two or so years lol.

I'm more hyped for the Styles, Sigel and Pusha track. YEUGH!

 

[MBlaze]

Voice doesn't bother me much, I mean if we can listen to Jay Z talk all day and Big Pun when he inhales on a track (no disrespect to him), we can listen to someone's voice if it's annoying.

 

[IAmBlu3]

Voice doesn't bother me much, I mean if we can listen to Jay Z talk all day and Big Pun when he inhales on a track (no disrespect to him), we can listen to someone's voice if it's annoying.

shots fired. niko's coming lol.

yeah but i didn't really have a problem with those dudes' voices. aesop can get really irritating. i remember going through my underground hip hop phase and still couldn't get used to his voice.

Lately as in the past two or so years lol.

I'm more hyped for the Styles, Sigel and Pusha track. YEUGH!

yeah but he's been over doing it. bar exam 3 = a di*k measuring contest haha

i thought he was supposed to have a track with jada? and are you pre-ordering it?

 

[cookieM0Nster]

his voice is ****ing deeper than a baritone sax.

 

[~N9NE~]

yeah but he's been over doing it. bar exam 3 = a di*k measuring contest haha

i thought he was supposed to have a track with jada? and are you pre-ordering it?

BE3 was hilarious though.

Yeah Jada and Styles I think but I'll settle for that. Pusha? YEUGH!

Might pre order but I don't know because of shipping international and that. But if I could have got that book should be cool I guess. I might cop after I hear it.

EDIT: Nah I gotta cop it's Joe. Only issue is shipping.

 

[Boofy!]

lmao n9ne you stay using that adlib!!

 

[Niko45]

shots fired. niko's coming lol.

LOL yea seems my role in this thread is to just be the Jay-Z police. Somebody's gotta do it though.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppjM9AMOdOg

Discuss.





now for the real discussion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm1Xj7Eb_Bg

 

[Jane]

AHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! ahhh soo good! my favorite thing was the jay z laughs xDDD

 

[cookieM0Nster]

and how he put his hat like hella low. lmao.

the second one i put is hella funny.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Eh. They were great albums, but I feel you can't say someone is Top 5 if they only had a couple albums.

Why not? Most great rappers only release 2 or 3 classic albums. And both of Biggie's albums are classic. Moreover, no other rapper ever has released two albums with the same critical acclaim and commercial success that Biggie did.

The fact that Biggie (along with Nas) revolutionized the game and set an unprecedented standard of lyricism, flow, and swag for all rapper to come after means much more than...his album count. No point in arguing, I just disagree. I also recommend giving RD some more listens cause I don't really agree with just about anything you say about RD. No hate, though, I just disagree.

Agreed. My top 3 rappers all time:

1. Biggie
2. Nas
3. Rakim

I don't get why everyone seems to think Rakim has to be number one just due to all the lyrical techniques he invented. That should factor in, but shouldn't make him automatic #1. Fact is, Biggie and Nas were both superior rappers.

And that Nas line is a great example of how lyrical he is but the problem is HE'S FULL OF ****. HE WASN'T KICKING ANY KNOWLEDGE. HE WAS ON SOME MAFIOSO **** LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. So yea, on the surface Nas is more lyrical imo, but Jay has more depth and is still extremely lyrical even if not quite as abstract as that. Jay's rhyme schemes are also more unique/complex cause his flow is a bit more "shapeless" than Nas'. So it depends how much you take into account when judging their "lyricism."

I think you're too hard on Nas here. You're right in most senses, but other songs like "The World Is Yours", "One Love", "One Mic", etc. deserve consideration.

 

[Kingdom Come]

I personally like stillmatic more. i'm having a tough time getting into it was written. sometimes, the lyrics for a track would be dope, but the chorus would be ehh.

i'm doing this comparison out of curiosity and don't answer if you haven't listened to both

Illmatic or Reasonable Doubt?

Haven't we already had this discussion just this past summer?

Illmatic > Reasonable Doubt.

They are total opposites. Illmatic is gritty and very hard hitting. RD is the laid back mafioso. It really just depends on your style.

The bigger question should be. Who really was the king of NY?

You have Jay, Nas, Biggie Smalls, Big L, Wu Tang, KRS-One, LL Cool J. I'm curious to know your thoughts on this one.

MIKE JONES!!!!!

 

[IAmBlu3]

Big L? no.

Wu-Tang? how 9 niqqas gon be king?

Krs and LL came around in a different time than Nas, Big, and Jay.

we'd need a flow chart for this. it was all at different times.

 

[KrazyGlue]

You have Jay, Nas, Biggie Smalls, Big L, Wu Tang, KRS-One, LL Cool J. I'm curious to know your thoughts on this one.

MIKE JONES!!!!!

You have a lot more than that (Kool G Rap, Big Daddy Kane, Kool Moe Dee and any other old-schoolers, etc). But I'm going with Biggie.

EDIT: Blu is right about the times.

70s: Afrika Bambaata?
Early 80s: Kool Moe Dee and Grandmaster Caz
Mid-Late 80s: KRS One, LL Cool J, Kool G Rap, Big Daddy Kane
Early 90s: Uhhhhhh....
Mid-Late 90s: Biggie, Nas, and Jay
2000s: MIKE JONES!!!! (Seriously, probably still Jay)

 

[Kingdom Come]

Well, once your king your THE KING.

WTC could have been the cabinet.

 

[MBlaze]