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World of Warcraft Discussion: Mists of Pandaria

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lol here we go with maximising DPS again.

I'm not even saying anything because my casual-as-ever tongue will piss you off again.

All in all, you manage to pull maximum DPS in your raids with your setup as I pull maximum DPS in whatever I'm doing with my own setup.
 

fkacyan

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lol here we go with maximising DPS again.

I'm not even saying anything because my casual-as-ever tongue will piss you off again.

All in all, you manage to pull maximum DPS in your raids with your setup as I pull maximum DPS in whatever I'm doing with my own setup.
No, I don't think I'll get mad again. You just don't play at the same level that I do.

It's like progressing from being the best in your high school to being the best in your region.
 

Asdioh

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I'm pretty sure nobody else in this thread is a serious raider, so as far as maximizing DPS in all situations go, nobody really has a frame of reference for that except me.

Not all of us are satisified with mashing what isnt on cooldown.
 

Azua

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I'm pretty sure nobody else in this thread is a serious raider
At one point in time I was in one of the top guilds in the world (they since are not, I dunno why, didn't keep track of it much...I actually cringe thinking about it) Before that I was in a guild of mostly IRL friends, but we actually did clear things in Vanilla without adding too many randoms in our groups. I quit for a long time during BC because I couldn't stand it anymore, but came back around Kara and raided then. Got tired of a serious business 99% male guild and moved servers. By now wrath was going to come out in like a month. Leveled new characters until Wrath came out, started raiding again. Was in server 3rd or 4th guild (I can't really remember) Horde at the beginning of Wrath, switched to Alliance, raided until I moved across the country. Continued raiding until some family drama with the people I was living with. Which is a ****ing shame because I meshed with the last guild.

I don't like your assertion that because we don't use something that isn't really necessary that we're bad players. A different UI isn't necessary. YOU may prefer to play like that, and that's great, but just because I don't doesn't mean I'm somehow inferior to you. If I was a bad player I would have never been in the guilds I was in, and especially not in the main lineup.

When I do get settled in and establish a raid schedule that I can do with my old guild (because I actually got along with them), I'll start posting stats for you.

US #36 7/7 US top 10 wrath, US 2nd BC

:]

Dem buttons.

:phone:
Nice. What class are you?



Edit: Aww, I just looked it up and realized we were 3rd server for the end of Wrath. I wish I could have been a part of that longer than I was :...God damn IRL getting in the way of dem raids. I miss my guild :c
 

Asdioh

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YEAH!

Also squid does 7/7 mean there are 7 raids in cata or something?

adsfkjjj i wish i had the game just so i could explore all the finished cata zones (never got to see twilight highlands and it looked cool.. and i didn't go in hyjal either goshdarnit i'm dumb) and see what the raids and stuff look like.

i wonder if i can still play the cata beta since it's still listed on my account page >=)
 

Smooth Criminal

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No, I don't think I'll get mad again. You just don't play at the same level that I do.

It's like progressing from being the best in your high school to being the best in your region.
I love you to death for your insight on the game, Thio, but you're wrong here. PvE isn't as complicated and as serious as you're making it out to be.

Smooth Criminal
 

fkacyan

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I love you to death for your insight on the game, Thio, but you're wrong here. PvE isn't as complicated and as serious as you're making it out to be.

Smooth Criminal
PvE's current DPS design, at least requires a lot more "thought" (I say that using the word loosely) than it used to. Frost in WotLK was always a static rotation that I modified only slightly for AoE purposes. Frost now is a complicated priority that is heavily affected by RNG and small differences in how it gets played and the order in which CDs are used makes a large difference in how much damage you do.

Tack that on top of being situationally aware as a DPS where "all the **** is happening" on some fights and the base UI is far from optimal.

Maybe, say, a healer or a tank could get away with using the base UI fairly easily because resource optimization ain't their thang, in the same sense, but the majority of the game agrees that the base UI is not flexible enough to allow for optimal play.

I don't like your assertion that because we don't use something that isn't really necessary that we're bad players. A different UI isn't necessary. YOU may prefer to play like that, and that's great, but just because I don't doesn't mean I'm somehow inferior to you. If I was a bad player I would have never been in the guilds I was in, and especially not in the main lineup.
At no point did I say "inferior," Azua. You inferred that on your own. I have enough casual friends, relatives, and acquaintances to have ingrained that casual players aren't necessarily "worse."

US #36 7/7 US top 10 wrath, US 2nd BC

:]

Dem buttons.
Name, class, role? EDIT: Derp, if you're a priest in the US 36th guild I can just look that up.

I'd love to see your parses, partly to see how you do and partly to show my guild what a Rag heroic parse looks like because we're just starting to learn P4.
 

Mic_128

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Maybe, say, a healer or a tank could get away with using the base UI fairly easily because resource optimization ain't their thang, in the same sense, but the majority of the game agrees that the base UI is not flexible enough to allow for optimal play.
Pretty sure Azua wasn't a tank, so the point's a bit moot there.
 

Azua

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You just don't play at the same level that I do.
This is inferring that we are somehow playing on an 'inferior' level in context with your other comments..... it comes off quite condescending.
I didn't provoke you but I still don't care for the way you're saying things.

I can't say anything on your comment about Frost spec because I have yet to raid with Frost in Cataclysm, but it really wasn't a static rotation in Wrath either.

I still seriously doubt I will need a different UI once I start raiding again. I have never needed one, regardless of the class I have played or the role I had in raids. Just because we don't need or want a different UI doesn't mean we're button mashers or non-serious raiders. I DPS just fine. Maybe I can just organize my spells/attacks better than most people.

This is an argument I've had many times with people in the same guild as me. They usually shut up after the first 20 minutes or so.
I think I used maybe two addons as well, Recount and DBM....and DBM was only because it was required by my guilds. I don't need an addon telling me I probably shouldn't stand in that fire. I was a serious raider. I did not use a special UI.


Squid: 6 80s to raid? I don't think I could handle that many. I could barely handle two before I had to peace out.
Were you dps or heals?



edit: **** no mic I hated tanking. I could 'rescue' tank if things went awry and one of them died but I hated every second of it. (thankfully most of the time this was for a few seconds until battle rez...I don't think I could handle a lot of hits without massive heals on me thanks to non-tank gear...) It was almost like being 'rescue' heals with the shammy after a healer stood in the fire/black holes or something stupid. raaaaaaage this is not what this character is for
 

fkacyan

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This is inferring that we are somehow playing on an 'inferior' level in context with your other comments..... it comes off quite condescending.
I didn't provoke you but I still don't care for the way you're saying things.
That comment was directed specifically at one person who, verbatim, recommended button mashing as a method to increase DPS.

I can't say anything on your comment about Frost spec because I have yet to raid with Frost in Cataclysm, but it really wasn't a static rotation in Wrath either.
We can discuss Frost thoerycraft through Wrath on a patch-by-patch basis in PMs, if you'd like, but Frost started relatively open and mashing in 3.0 and by TotC it was one of the most rigid, GCD-tight static rotations in the game.

I still seriously doubt I will need a different UI once I start raiding again. I have never needed one, regardless of the class I have played or the role I had in raids. Just because we don't need or want a different UI doesn't mean we're button mashers or non-serious raiders. I DPS just fine. Maybe I can just organize my spells/attacks better than most people.
I guess I didn't really make my argument the way I should have. I'll start out by saying I've taken paid training in UI design for software; specifically, I used to do QA for it when I worked for the company my father was previously employed at. I have a good idea of how to draw the eye to certain places, where to not put certain things, etc.

Now, I'm not going to claim that even 90% of the UI modifications I've made are necessary. There are literally two things to change on a UI to make it optimal:

- Center your portrait / your target portrait (MoveAnything; why this is a base function in every MMO that isn't WoW but not WoW I still don't get)
- Center the resources you have to manage (Mana, Rage, Energy, RP, Holy Power, DoTs)

Past that every I've done is purely cosmetic. When I PvP I use MoveAnything, Quartz (To make castbars better), nPower, and Gladius.

As far as "level of play" goes, if we're not on the same tier, why is that a problem? Many of the best raiders I know don't play at my level (the "If I'm not shooting for a top 50 parse I'm doing it wrong" level) but rather the one just slightly below it (the "if I'm doing well, not dying or causing the healers pain and the boss is dead" level). It's one of those things I'll admit I don't get.
 

Smooth Criminal

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As far as "level of play" goes, if we're not on the same tier, why is that a problem? Many of the best raiders I know don't play at my level (the "If I'm not shooting for a top 50 parse I'm doing it wrong" level) but rather the one just slightly below it (the "if I'm doing well, not dying or causing the healers pain and the boss is dead" level). It's one of those things I'll admit I don't get.
Implying that you work on a "tier higher than anyone else" is condescending, Thio. It reeks of hardline elitism. If you'd just say that you operate under a different mindset, it wouldn't be such a big deal.

And I don't give a **** if your numbers are bigger, if your gear's better, and if you are more efficient at what you do. Big whoop. You can still show some humility and respect for people that aren't "on your level" and do things differently. If they wallow in the dirt for a while, hey, that's fine. They're either a) going to get better at some point, b) not going to ever get it (which is fine too), or c) Blizzard is going to nerf the content to make it accessible for everybody.

Like I said, I respect your knowledge when it comes to the game. I don't respect your attitude, tho'.

Smooth Criminal
 

fkacyan

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And I don't give a **** if your numbers are bigger, if your gear's better, and if you are more efficient at what you do. Big whoop. You can still show some humility and respect for people that aren't "on your level" and do things differently.
When it comes to DPS, there is better and worse. Different will fall into one of those directions.

I can't be responsible for how you feel about that.
 

Azua

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That comment was directed specifically at one person who, verbatim, recommended button mashing as a method to increase DPS.
but....I don't see anywhere where he mentioned button mashing before you made that comment and after I mentioned UIs.

We can discuss Frost thoerycraft through Wrath on a patch-by-patch basis in PMs, if you'd like, but Frost started relatively open and mashing in 3.0 and by TotC it was one of the most rigid, GCD-tight static rotations in the game.
I'm sure we could but I'm still sticking with it not being the most static DK rotation. It boils down to opinions in the finer details, but FR started out as a cluster**** and then became more refined, but imo (and that's the tricky part) UH seemed like it was far more static. (Unless they changed it while I was gone, then I retract my statement due to my info being out of date) I have since changed to Frost in Cata and noticed it's definitely what I would call an 'active' rotation now. I personally think it's a lot of fun going "yay ___ proc! FREE CRIT **** YOUR FACE" and actually having to watch what is going on with my character now. When they changed it at the end of Wrath I switched and had immense fun times with that spec, even if I was only doing PUGS since I had no schedule.


I guess I didn't really make my argument the way I should have. I'll start out by saying I've taken paid training in UI design for software; specifically, I used to do QA for it when I worked for the company my father was previously employed at. I have a good idea of how to draw the eye to certain places, where to not put certain things, etc.
I've done UIs for software as well for the company that I work with, although I am pretty positive the technology we created interfaces for/client base is far different and thus calls for a much different interface. :)

Now, I'm not going to claim that even 90% of the UI modifications I've made are necessary. There are literally two things to change on a UI to make it optimal:

- Center your portrait / your target portrait (MoveAnything; why this is a base function in every MMO that isn't WoW but not WoW I still don't get)
While I do agree that centering the target portrait could prove useful for some situations, I'm not quite sure I understand why my own portrait needs to be centered. Maybe it's because I'm used to having the default UI and have had it for 6 years and know where to look. I dunno. I think moving it now would probably annoy the **** out of me. (I've tried different UI setups and always go back to default)

- Center the resources you have to manage (Mana, Rage, Energy, RP, Holy Power, DoTs)
I don't quite understand this either. My runic power I can see on my portrait (Although I never look, if FS/DC/RS/etc is lit up that means I have enough....I gather lots of RP lol).....by DoTs are you talking diseases, etc? I've honestly never had a problem with those expiring, either.

Past that every I've done is purely cosmetic. When I PvP I use MoveAnything, Quartz (To make castbars better), nPower, and Gladius.
I obviously recognize none of those, but more power to you if it makes things easier for you. My fiance uses so many addons that I can't stand to get on his character for anything.

As far as "level of play" goes, if we're not on the same tier, why is that a problem?
It isn't. It's simply the way you said it coupled with your other comments that I didn't care for. It's perfectly fine that you play like you do, as I said before I was in a really hardcore guild and everything we did had to be perfect.




Once again though, I think this may be different for me because I have a gigantic screen to work with. My UI doesn't take up that much space on my screen and I can still see clearly and have a huge amount of 'open space' on my screen. I have my keys set up exactly where I want them and I'm never finding myself having to choose between 'do I look at this or that' during a fight.




@Smooth Criminal: oh god please don't even mention blizz nerfing content



More important matters: Why the **** is Wrath CE $200
 

Smooth Criminal

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When it comes to DPS, there is better and worse. Different will fall into one of those directions.

I can't be responsible for how you feel about that.
You can be responsible for how you treat other people. That's my point. You can play the game however you want to. Be all that you can be; I don't think anybody here is knocking you for that. You don't have to treat other people like **** because they're not on that tier as you. That's that.

No hard feelings, Thio.

Azua: It's already begun for Cata's Firelands content. :troll:

Smooth Criminal
 

Azua

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simmer down now

Azua: It's already begun for Cata's Firelands content. :troll:
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: looks like I'ma pug this weekend :urg:


slightly offtopic: I'm desperately trying to sell a corset or some dreads or something because I found the -perfect- ridiculously huge ears for my halloween costume. sadface.
 

Smooth Criminal

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Huge ears?

Whatcha going as?

On topic: Rogues are fun. :3 Can't wait to get to max level.

...I also should really start gearing up my Hunter. I did TB last night and I was having a ball even though I was decked out mostly in Cata greens.

Smooth Criminal
 

fkacyan

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Frost in ICC was literally the following sequence:

Opener: IT PS Pest Oblit BS BT Pillar FS FS > Oblit x3 FSx3 in whatever order optimized your KM procs >
Repeater: Oblit Oblit Pest BS FS FS > Oblit Oblit Oblit FS FS FS in the order that optimized your KM procs

No flexibility. Messing up once bothced your entire rotation. **** ****ing sucked. Unholy had flexibility because it didn't generate enough RP to use every GCD.

I don't quite understand this either. My runic power I can see on my portrait (Although I never look, if FS/DC/RS/etc is lit up that means I have enough....I gather lots of RP lol).....by DoTs are you talking diseases, etc? I've honestly never had a problem with those expiring, either.
See, this is what I'm referring to: You play well enough to kill bosses and don't stand in fire. Not everybody plays to get absolutely everything out of their DPS. playing a Frost DK optimally now forces you to glue your eyes to your RP bar and rune bar so that you can monitor RP levels and RE procs (Random runes is absolutel bull**** and unfun). I could probably do well enough, as you do, with the base UI, but I wouldn't be able to stay in the 85+th percentile on every fight like I do now in terms of DPS. Frost doesn't allow it without so re-configuring of the UI, and so does Subtlety (Though my Rogue isn't geared enough to do anything like get a good parse).

As far as centering your portrait goes, if you're only getting an addon for, say, runes, your RP bar is stuck inside your portrait.

EDIT:

Azua: It's already begun for Cata's Firelands content. :troll:

Smooth Criminal
And I'm thankful for it because, while I'm a super minmax everything guy, I'm playing with friends on what is in the bottom 10% of all servers in the entire world, so any nerfs we get helps us progress. I can't expect a lowpop RP server to have the same AMAZING PLAYER density as, say, Mal'ganis or something.

EDIT2:

@Smooth: I have no issue with anybody, nor do I treat them differently, with the exception of people who play poorly and attempt to tell others to play in the same fashion. If you have issues with me taking somebody to task for telling people to button mash... Well, my attitude on that won't even change.
 

Smooth Criminal

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@Smooth: I have no issue with anybody, nor do I treat them differently, with the exception of people who play poorly and attempt to tell others to play in the same fashion. If you have issues with me taking somebody to task for telling people to button mash... Well, my attitude on that won't even change.
Fair enough. I suppose I just don't care enough to lambast somebody for being bad. If they wanna be bad, they can be bad. It's their fifteen dollars.

Lemme put it this way: I know who I'm going to listen to when it comes to advice on this game.

*wink, wink. Nudge, nudge.*

And I wasn't saying that the nerfing of content was a bad thing or anything. It's just happening. *shrugs.* Blizzard wants people to go after Deathwing sooner than later.

Smooth Criminal
 

Azua

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Frost in ICC was literally the following sequence:

Opener: IT PS Pest Oblit BS BT Pillar FS FS > Oblit x3 FSx3 in whatever order optimized your KM procs >
Repeater: Oblit Oblit Pest BS FS FS > Oblit Oblit Oblit FS FS FS in the order that optimized your KM procs
I'm assuming you're talking about multiple targets here because I'm not sure why you would use Pestilence on single target. Was this before or after they took out the buff that BS gave you? (Pretty sure this was from ToC armor but I think they removed it later on? I can't remember.)

No flexibility. Messing up once bothced your entire rotation. **** ****ing sucked. Unholy had flexibility because it didn't generate enough RP to use every GCD.
I actually feel Unholy was largely the same. If I happened to bump the keyboard or the cat walked on it or whatever, I was messed up for a good 4 seconds.


See, this is what I'm referring to: You play well enough to kill bosses and don't stand in fire. Not everybody plays to get absolutely everything out of their DPS. playing a Frost DK optimally now forces you to glue your eyes to your RP bar and rune bar so that you can monitor RP levels
but I can see them both at the same time and still see the boss and what's going on :c

and RE procs (Random runes is absolutel bull**** and unfun).
TRUE
god i wish they'd take them out

I could probably do well enough, as you do, with the base UI, but I wouldn't be able to stay in the 85+th percentile on every fight like I do now in terms of DPS.
I was constantly top 1-5 DPS so I dunno. and I wasn't in bad guilds.

Frost doesn't allow it without so re-configuring of the UI, and so does Subtlety (Though my Rogue isn't geared enough to do anything like get a good parse).
I have yet to have a problem with managing my Frost DK with def. UI, but then again I have yet to start raiding Cata ****. Time will tell.
I will agree with you that Subtlety is kind of a challenge to do on the default UI. I went through the entirety of Karazhan with default UI on my Rogue but still came out okay....but now they've added so much crap to it that it's hard to organize for me.

As far as centering your portrait goes, if you're only getting an addon for, say, runes, your RP bar is stuck inside your portrait.
but I can still see it when I'm doing things :x
I also have an immense amount of RP with Frost. I am thinking we may be specced slightly different now, since I haven't changed my spec for Cata.

And I'm thankful for it because, while I'm a super minmax everything guy, I'm playing with friends on what is in the bottom 10% of all servers in the entire world, so any nerfs we get helps us progress. I can't expect a lowpop RP server to have the same AMAZING PLAYER density as, say, Mal'ganis or something.
I'm on a big server and I hate it. :\ It's nice because hey good guilds but at the same time I've done my time as a serious perfectionist raider and unless I'm under the influence of burning illegal substances I can't deal with it anymore. Still not moving though, it'll be nice when I get some free time and can chill with my old guild.


@Smooth: I'm going as the same thing I went as last year and the year before lol I just want better ears.
 

fkacyan

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I'm assuming you're talking about multiple targets here because I'm not sure why you would use Pestilence on single target. Was this before or after they took out the buff that BS gave you? (Pretty sure this was from ToC armor but I think they removed it later on? I can't remember.)
Nah, single target. Pestilence refreshed the diseases on your main target via Glyph of Disease.

Sub is ridiculous. You need to keep two buffs and a debuff up at all times as well as keeping strict track of your position in regards to the boss and fire AND managing two cooldowns to keep the uptime on yet another debuff as high as possible. IT'S BONKERS and I still haven't set up my UI in such a way that it's easy for me to see everything yet.
 

Azua

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Nah, single target. Pestilence refreshed the diseases on your main target via Glyph of Disease.
Oh werd. I always used Festering strike. (I was MS UH and OS FR because I didn't get the proper weapons until way late)

Sub is ridiculous. You need to keep two buffs and a debuff up at all times as well as keeping strict track of your position in regards to the boss and fire AND managing two cooldowns to keep the uptime on yet another debuff as high as possible. IT'S BONKERS and I still haven't set up my UI in such a way that it's easy for me to see everything yet.
Sub is stupid just leveling. It's amazing how uncomplicated one class can be and how ******** another class can. I'd call for balance but they'd just **** all of the classes up. -.-
 

fkacyan

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Oh werd. I always used Festering strike. (I was MS UH and OS FR because I didn't get the proper weapons until way late)
Festering Strike was added in 4.0, lol. Nowadays Frost just uses Outbreak once a minute and Plague Strike 30 seconds after each Outbreak, instead of an absurd 1-second tolerance move like GoD-pestilence.

As for leveling, I haven't leveled a rogue except from previous cap to next level cap since Vanilla. I hate leveling. >_>
 

Azua

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Festering Strike was added in 4.0, lol.
I don't remember when it was added, I moved during Wrath and then moved again. I can't remember what I used initially or whether the blood strike buff was a talent thing or an armor thing. Wasn't there something that increased the duration of diseases before FS? Maybe I'm thinking of a talent. :/

Nowadays Frost just uses Outbreak once a minute and Plague Strike 30 seconds after each Outbreak, instead of an absurd 1-second tolerance move like GoD-pestilence.
I like Outbreak. It's about time we had something like that imo.

As for leveling, I haven't leveled a rogue except from previous cap to next level cap since Vanilla. I hate leveling. >_>

My rogue is stuck in Zul'Drak. Because I hate Zul'Drak.



aaaand it's the weekend. Which means I won't be on until monday. Toodles *****s!
 
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I didn't know people took WoW this seriously until this thread.

No, wait. Nevermind. That was when I first started Arena. People get more butthurt in there than even the most hardcore raiders.

It's also delightfully hilarious when Arena players ask me how I deal top DPS as a Warrior, and I tell them I mash buttons.
Then again, anyone who uses rotations in PvP is ********.
 

Azua

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Thio I'm guessing they removed Glyph of Disease? Out of curiosity I logged on and switched my spec and now I have a hole in my glyphs....and I can't find it on the list. Kind of bugs me that I can't remember this now x_x
 

fkacyan

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Thio I'm guessing they removed Glyph of Disease? Out of curiosity I logged on and switched my spec and now I have a hole in my glyphs....and I can't find it on the list. Kind of bugs me that I can't remember this now x_x
Yeah, completely removed.

Was pretty jarring the first day, having to use disease moves after the initial pull.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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They made one of the most useful glyphs from my hunter obsolete (Healing animals restores how happiness) now that happiness is removed.

They replaced the glyph with something stupid. Makes pets smaller.

I like giant pets and was stuck with this glyph...
 

Mic_128

Wake up...
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I like the glyph tbh, my hunters seagull pet is about the size of a non-combat pet. Great for PvP >: )
 

fkacyan

Smash Hero
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You should name your pet after your toon.

People with targeting macros will cry.

Smooth Criminal
Anybody using nameplates / arena frames will go AHAHAHAHA NO, though.

@Azua: Its original intended purpose was single target utility but they didn't want it also spreading diseases. Passive AoE, blah blah blah. So they put in Outbreak and nerfed Pestilence.
 

Azua

Scourge Cheerleader
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@Azua: Its original intended purpose was single target utility but they didn't want it also spreading diseases. Passive AoE, blah blah blah. So they put in Outbreak and nerfed Pestilence.

They should have made it into a talent or something and kept the damn glyph. lol
 

PsychoIncarnate

The Eternal Will of the Swarm
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PsychoIncarnate
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Spiders and Silithids are my pets of choice.

Stopping the target dead in their tracks
 
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