Wolf O'Donnell for Brawl: The only good choice for a starfox villain

[Deleted member]

Mindless PS3 bashing isn't clever.

 

[Numa Dude]

Melee had a release date so they made a bunch of clones to increase the amount of characters. Brawl has no release date and there is better technology today so there is no reason for clones to be in brawl at all.

@Smash Daddy but it's funny

 

[Blazer]

Go read the Ganondorf and Pichu character pages on the official Japanese Melee website, Blazer. The clones are not "instead of" characters, they are bonus characters.

They're added after the point of no return when it comes to creating new movesets. They aren't taking up any spaces. They're there to make the roster bigger.

I very well understand that. Tell Wiseguy that though. the entire point was them or an original Wolf though. I would rather have the original Wolf. Don't jump into an arguement without reading it.

 

[GreenMamba]

Melee had a release date so they made a bunch of clones to increase the amount of characters. Brawl has no release date and there is better technology today so there is no reason for clones to be in brawl at all.

@Smash Daddy but it's funny

That's pretty shakey evidence. "Better technology?" Melee was made with the Gamecube, and has five more clones than the original had, which was made using an N64. And the creators know the game will have to come out eventually, so there is a cut off point somewhere, after which clones could be added to beef up the roster size regardless.

 

[Deleted member]

These are only the popular moves given to her and what nintendo would more than likely do with her. Try to think logically. The fireballs are her shooting that I mentioned. Stun with fairly rapid fire.

Well, the staff will certainly be used for fire shooting using B, but Ice is sort of generic. What's more likely is a sort of Bowser-power ice blower that doesn't freeze but has a large area span. Down B would hopefully be an electric ground move, that works sort of like an electrified earthquake that could shield Krystal briefly ala the shine. Midair it could have the same effect but with a downburst of electricity. This would help make her less broken.

 

[Blazer]

That's pretty shakey evidence. "Better technology?" Melee was made with the Gamecube, and has five more clones than the original had, which was made using an N64. And the creators know the game will have to come out eventually, so there is a cut off point somewhere, after which clones could be added to beef up the roster size regardless.

The original smash bros. was made to be completely original. They'd had a lot less time to figure out what was going to be what. You cannot use the first game to second game transition really. Especialy since the first Smash was nowhere near as popular before release.

 

[GreenMamba]

Alright, fair enough, but "better technology" is hardly a reason to not beef up a roster with clones.

 

[Blazer]

Well, the staff will certainly be used for fire shooting using B, but Ice is sort of generic. What's more likely is a sort of Bowser-power ice blower that doesn't freeze but has a large area span. Down B would hopefully be an electric ground move, that works sort of like an electrified earthquake that could shield Krystal briefly ala the shine. Midair it could have the same effect but with a downburst of electricity. This would help make her less broken.

Yes but a lot less unique. Your making her too much like Fox and Falco and the whole point of her being a wanted character is that she is very unique.

If this is the case more people will lose interest in her and be angry for not getting Wolf. I'm mad either way cause I want both. ^_ ^

 

[Deleted member]

Wait a second.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes but a lot less unique. Your making her too much like Fox and Falco and the whole point of her being a wanted character is that she is very unique.

If this is the case more people will lose interest in her and be angry for not getting Wolf. I'm mad either way cause I want both. ^_ ^

Ya. Either will be cool, but I think Wolf should be in over her - I seriously dislike all feminine characters bar 'Puff. Wolf would have a very daunting atmosphere around him.

I'm still going to say that she won't definitely have your suggested broken moveset. After all, no offense to you, but that moveset is pretty bland. It may be origional for the characters in SSB but not for everywhere else. The earthquake would also end up being a failure like Pichu's thunderbolt because the only way I see it working without being invincible would be for it to be self-damaging. Krystal probably won't have Fire AND Ice moves - it's cliche as hell.

 

[Numa Dude]

That's pretty shakey evidence. "Better technology?" Melee was made with the Gamecube, and has five more clones than the original had, which was made using an N64. And the creators know the game will have to come out eventually, so there is a cut off point somewhere, after which clones could be added to beef up the roster size regardless.

No there isn't a cutoff point where Nintendo says they have to finish the game. Look at the Zelda games. They get delayed like crazy. The fact is they WILL delay it if it isn't done and they WILL NOT add clones as they take away from the originality of the game and because clones where invented in the first place to fill up the roster because they ran out of time.

 

[Deleted member]

No there isn't a cutoff point where Nintendo says they have to finish the game. Look at the Zelda games. They get delayed like crazy. The fact is they WILL delay it if it isn't done and they WILL NOT add clones as they take away from the originality of the game and because clones where invented in the first place to fill up the roster because they ran out of time.

You contradicted yourself. If they can delay the game if it isn't finished then how can they run out of time? As someone else has said, clones are there as bonus characters. They aren't there because they ran out of time - they are what they are - bonuses.

 

[Numa Dude]

I don't see how I contradicted myself. Clones where put in to increase the roster because they ran out of time on melee because it had a set release date which brawl doesn't have. I bet that if melee didn't have a set release date there would have been no clones in melee at all.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't see how I contradicted myself. Clones where put in to increase the roster because they ran out of time on melee because it had a set release date which brawl doesn't have. I bet that if melee didn't have a set release date there would have been no clones in melee at all.

All games eventually have set release dates, otherwise there'd be nothing to delay from. The only reason 'Brawl doesn't have one yet is because Nintendo are keeping it under wraps/it's too early in development (unlikely judging by what Kojima said). Sure, they could push back "Fall" to "Winter", but three months are in each season. So it could have been a simple month delay or a massive six month delay. This is why you need a release date to be delayed.

 

[GreenMamba]

No there isn't a cutoff point where Nintendo says they have to finish the game. Look at the Zelda games. They get delayed like crazy. The fact is they WILL delay it if it isn't done and they WILL NOT add clones as they take away from the originality of the game and because clones where invented in the first place to fill up the roster because they ran out of time.

There will be a cut off point at some point, because the game has to eventually come out. How you could possibly construe that there will never be a cutoff point is absolutely rediculous. The only way there could be a cut off point is if the game is never released, which is highly unlikely.

If you really don't understand that games have to be released, I'm done arguing with you.

And your opinion that clones are detrimental to the game is hardly any reason to not include them. They beef up the roster. If you really hate them, ignore them to your best effort. But I'll be enjoying a larger Brawl roster than normally possible with the inevitable clones.

EDIT: Wind Waker was delayed, and still rushed (as was admitted by the game creators). Ocarina of Time has tons of stuff that was cut because they eventually ran out of time (even after delaying it several years). Twilight Princess is also missing quite a few things that weren't included even after delaying it. There's a cut off point for everything, unless you happen to be "developing" Duke Nukem Forever.

 

[Numa Dude]

Your taking what I said to an extreme. What I meant by no cutoff point was there is no point where they will force them to release the game before they are 100% finished with it. SSB is a HUGE franchise and lots of people are buying a Wii just to play it plus this could be the last smash game so Nintendo will want to make this franchise go out with a bang if it is indeed the last one. BTW I don't hate clones I just highly doubt they will be in brawl. If they are in brawl I won't complain. Sure I'll be upset some characters didn't get an original moveset but its just a video game so I can live with it.

 

[RyNo 86]

I get what both of you guys are saying and we have to realize that Nintendo isn't in this for serious gamers like all of us, they are in this for money and are going to design it in a way that will sell more games, regardless of the way that we think it would better gaming for tournaments. If they do make it with less clones that will be awsome, but I can only say that no matter how we brake it down, and no matter how much better it will make the game, they're going to do what will make them the most money.

 

[Blazer]

I get what both of you guys are saying and we have to realize that Nintendo isn't in this for serious gamers like all of us, they are in this for money and are going to design it in a way that will sell more games, regardless of the way that we think it would better gaming for tournaments. If they do make it with less clones that will be awsome, but I can only say that no matter how we brake it down, and no matter how much better it will make the game, they're going to do what will make them the most money.

Yay for a mediator.

Now then, Brawl has no set release date correct? Okay. This means that the cutoff point is very slim. It does exist but it can be pushed about like crazy.

To Smash Daddy on his opinion on my moveset.... It may not be very original for her but, it's the exact moveset everyone thinks she will probably have go check the Krystal for Brawl thread. Mine is very similiar to their's only it's more a public view rather than a serious gamer view.

 

[Deleted member]

This has gone pretty off-topic, yes? This is a topic about Wolf being in 'Brawl, not the affairs of Nintendo/delays/release dates.

It might be what some people think, but that doesn't mean it will be like that. If it is I trust Nintendo wouldn't make her broken. In fact, I see her being a very weak character.

 

[Zarasai]

this doesnt sound liek wolf for brawl any more does it?

 

[Deleted member]

Nein. It sounds like "Krystal for 'Brawl" or "WTF Nintendo suxxorz".

 

[W4veMantis]

OMG...what happened to this thread.
All I see is console bashing, krystal for brawl, and clone arguments.
...where are you stryks...

 

[Chief Mendez]

http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2007/05/01/the-big-three-are-coming-in-2007-to-japan/

^Brawl sort of has a deadline now.^

So anyway, Wolf? Yay. Most people didn't like StarFox Assault, and I know why, but there's alot of stuff they could pull from it if Wolf were to be included (and really, every other franchise seems to be getting a villain, so why not StarFox...nobody bring up Andross.). Specifically: his little "stealth dodge" when on-foot in a deathmatch, his crazy obsession with machineguns (although that's debatable, they could always just make them "laser-machineguns"), and that sublime--and I mean incredibly cool--duel music that plays during StarFox/StarWolf showdowns.

 

[Blazer]

OMG...what happened to this thread.
All I see is console bashing, krystal for brawl, and clone arguments.
...where are you stryks...

This board argues constantly. All of this arguing in this thread has been traceable to the topic of Wolf and his odds of making it. We aren't off topic. Krystal being in over Wolf was mentioned so that is now being disscussed, I don't see console bashing, and the clone arguements are whether or not Wolf would be a clone if he got in. It all is very on-topic. Stryks entered the topic and posted his opinion on Wolf's moveset and Wiseguy I believe it was tried to argue against it thus beginning another session of" would Wolf be a clone?" This is all on topic and related and if you don't like the fact that people disagree with the opinion of Wolf supporters and you don't like that Wolf supporters will argue with them then you may as well leave this topic because there isn't much else to disscuss about it.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd hope Wolf would play different to Fox, maybe a bit slower but more powerful (obvious but meh). The machine guns and such would also be cool.

Andross on the other hand...

 

[Chief Mendez]

Andross on the other hand...

Would be a silly addition when much cooler enemies are to be had. Enemies like Wolf.

 

[Deleted member]

Indeed. Not to mention he'd handle like two Master Hands and a monkey head.

 

[Blazer]

Andross does not need brought up again. EVER.

Edit: This thread is once again alive. This is very good.

 

[Saimdusan]

Why would Wolf need to be slower? He would be like C. Falcon, he would have strong, slow attacks, but would move quickly (since all StarFox chars are really fast according to SF: As).

And I could see a ordinary-sized Andross with wacky-scientist-esque attacks... but that would be stupid.

 

[Blazer]

No. You've nit been here long enough to know about Andross. Just leave it to a no.

 

[Numa Dude]

Wolf should get a boomstick.

 

[Deleted member]

Yaa, Andross is a null point. We've only seen him in that massive form... Ridiculous for 'Smash.

I see Wolf as a slow one in comparison to the very fast Fox and Falco, he'd be about the speed of Captain Falcon (like you said).

 

[Blazer]

If he is going to be slow then he definitely needs at least a luigified moveset. Their moveset is only good at high speed.

Yay, for an original moveset for Wolf with stronger attacks!

 

[Sculelos]

If he is going to be slow then he definitely needs at least a luigified moveset. Their moveset is only good at high speed.

Yay, for an original moveset for Wolf with stronger attacks!

Yea, he could easily be original though, I've already said my ideas in this thread awhile back and I don't feel like repeating them though.

 

[Blazer]

Dude read the past couple pages. I've argued for him to have an original moveset. I said AT LEAST because a few people see him as just a clone.

Edit: Why am I constantly having to defend myself in one way or another in this thread?

 

[Deleted member]

Haha... This thread has had so many arguments happen out of nowhere.

An origional moveset would obviously be better than a luigified one - but it's not like I'd rather not have Wolf if he is a semi-clone. If he plays sort of like Fox it'd make a little sense.

 

[Blazer]

Haha... This thread has had so many arguments happen out of nowhere.

An origional moveset would obviously be better than a luigified one - but it's not like I'd rather not have Wolf if he is a semi-clone. If he plays sort of like Fox it'd make a little sense.

Exactly. But a luigified set is better than a clone too.
Original>Luigified>Clone.

Noone take that as me arguing against Wolf having an original moveset. I'd just rather see him Luigified than be a clone. Gotta say something against those that want him as a clone or think he would be.

 

[Deleted member]

Exactly. But a luigified set is better than a clone too.
Original>Luigified>Clone.

Noone take that as me arguing against Wolf having an original moveset. I'd just rather see him Luigified than be a clone. Gotta say something against those that want him as a clone or think he would be.

Basically the better the clone the more I'll enjoy playing as him. I think he'll share at least one of Fox's abilities, such as the blaster or the shine (powered down).

 

[W4veMantis]

This board argues constantly. All of this arguing in this thread has been traceable to the topic of Wolf and his odds of making it. We aren't off topic. Krystal being in over Wolf was mentioned so that is now being disscussed, I don't see console bashing, and the clone arguements are whether or not Wolf would be a clone if he got in. It all is very on-topic. Stryks entered the topic and posted his opinion on Wolf's moveset and Wiseguy I believe it was tried to argue against it thus beginning another session of" would Wolf be a clone?" This is all on topic and related and if you don't like the fact that people disagree with the opinion of Wolf supporters and you don't like that Wolf supporters will argue with them then you may as well leave this topic because there isn't much else to disscuss about it.

Dude...c'mon. I didn't say that the thread was off-topic. I just wanted to know what happened. It's like, most of the wolf supporters aren't really posting anymore. I don't know why you're attacking me. I think you just took what I said out of context.
Almost every anti-wolf supporter uses the same excuse over and over again. That wolf would be a clone of Fox. It gets old and annoying. Another one is Krystal is more original. What is it about that Krystal that makes her more original? Her staff? If anything Krystal is more of a clone to fox than wolf is. She's a FOX! Everyone says that wolf is just the generic rival to fox and he was made just so fox could have rival. Couldn't the same thing be said about Krystal? That she's just the generic "damsel in distress"? hmm...
I'm not saying I'm against Krystal. I hope they're both in with Falco...with original movesets of course.
Oh, and console bashing...

The Wii has two must have titles (Galaxy and prime three) Xbox 360 has one (Halo 3) PS3 sucks *** and deserves to be destroyed for its lack of any good games. Wii doesn't need anymore must haves. All SF characters are unoriginal compared to Krystal but Wolf actually has some personality, he is a ruthless mercenary who wants to be the best.

Yah...there you go.

*whew*
Anyway, Blazer you seem pretty cool and I agree with most of the stuff you say so I don't want any beef.
Oh yeah, Andross...No. Just No.

 

[Deleted member]

StarFox can also be traced back to Star Wars. So there you go, most things are cliche in it. But wouldn't you rather play as the villain rather than the sidekick?