Wolf O'Donnell for Brawl: The only good choice for a starfox villain

[Kashakunaki]

HOLY CRAP! This thread spiraled out of control in like... three posts.

Well, your first response to what I said about Fox, Falco, Wolf, and Leon doesn't make any sense. I was just stating my wishful thinking and hopes and you retailated what wasn't even an arguement to begin with. So I'm just going to ignore that, if you don't mind.

Nobody wants to come find you because you're a dickheaded little furry fanboy with no capacity for intellectual debate: When your points are inevitably adressed, disproven and dismissed, you either ignore or reiterate them.

Completely owned. Nothing more needs to be said. Please read the topic, do a little research, and know the facts before you start going on a posting rampage, Mr. Tails-Avatar-Man.

 

[Profanity]

Of course, telling the truth nets you infractions.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

If by "owned" you mean "was subjected to a frighteningly ignorant post" then, yeah, I was owned, I'll admit it.

 

[Profanity]

If that was frightening in any way, then I applaud your parents for doing such a terrific job sheltering you from reality. Whatever. You're going on my ignore list before I get myself banned.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I can't see CC's post, but I can only assume that it's mean spirirted.

Listen, I think that you guys missunderstand me.

I don't hate Wolf. I think that most people outside of this thread and some in can clearly see that Krystal has the greatest chance of any SF character of making it in. She is followed, however, by wolf, and no one else really has a shot. The question is if they'll add more than one new SF character, and I find this doubtful.

Were only that there were more available slots.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

You're now changing what you previously said, let me take a look back...
Edit: "Wolf would be the obvious 4th choice from SF" AHA, and now you say he's second choice? Unless you were counting Fox falco, I still think he's better choice than krystal as he's longer running with better backstory (does krystal HAVE a backstory?).

Let's search some more...

**** you and your defensive posts! So maybe you're not changing what you say but you've still given no reason for not having wolf other than saying he will be a clone with no backup reason, now reply to this and the other post I made, I DEMAND IT! (Yes i'm in one of those having a fun arguement on the internet moods)

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

You're now changing what you previously said, let me take a look back...
Edit: "Wolf would be the obvious 4th choice from SF" AHA, and now you say he's second choice? Unless you were counting Fox falco, I still think he's better choice than krystal as he's longer running with better backstory (does krystal HAVE a backstory?).

Let's search some more...

**** you and your defensive posts! So maybe you're not changing what you say but you've still given no reason for not having wolf other than saying he will be a clone with no backup reason, now reply to this and the other post I made, I DEMAND IT! (Yes i'm in one of those having a fun arguement on the internet moods)

If you calm down and act a bit more civilized (i.e. bashing me for having a view that difers from yours), I will entertain a debate. And, yes, when I said 4th before, I was counting Fox and Falco, the second time, I believe that I used the word "addition" in which case, fox and falco wouldn't be considered.

And my only reason for him not being included is the space issue... we can only have so many characters and most people see Fox, Falco and Krystal before Wolf... It's hard for me to say where or not he should be included before knowing exactly how many empty spaces are left

 

[Inferno_blaze]

yeh I was joking around in that post, the whole **** you bit was meant to be in a silly way, not as in I HATE YOU AND WANT YOU DEAD.

Since when did most people see fox falco and krystal over fox falco and wolf?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Well, we'll just disregard Fox and Flaco since that part we agree on, now it's between Krystal and Wolf.

Here are my reasons:
1) Personally, I prefer krystal, but that should hardly mater
2) In every, and I mean EVERY, haracter vote that I have ever seen that isn't run by a Wolf fanboy, Krystal shows up FAR ahead of wolf, if he shows up at all.
3) Krystal's staff is a BIG reason. It makes has some obvious "B" button moves that could easily fit into the game. It also allows for a completely unique moveset, not just from Fox and Falco, but from every other character since no other character wields anything remotely resembling a staff.
4) Krystal actually does have a large fanbase...
5) Her gender, SSB has a large shortage of females making Krystal a precious comodity.
6) The complete package. This is one of those times when the whole is greater than the some of its parts. There is no good reason NOT to include krystal. She has everyting that one could want ias far as qualification is concerned.



As you can see, it's not so much that Wolf is a bad choice as much as it is that Krytal is a much better choice and, thusly, she is pretty much considered a Sure win by many.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

1) Yeah opinion doesn't matter as I like wolf
2)Got any links?
3)It does give a lot of moves but I like to think that Wolf gives more opportunites for imagination However Bdown as the earthshaker thingy would be awesome.
4) Wolf has a large fanbase, not as large but that's just cos obiovusly all the krystal fans think she's hot and are furry lovers because they MUST be if they like her. OBVIOUSLY.
5)AHA Wolf is a villain which means he has same priority as females.
6) I don't understand this, I only hope that if she's in they use some of er more interesting staff moves (well fox's moves in adventure) than using boring ones (hit with stick).

Currently all I see is that she's more popular, which I don't really think is that much of a reason, I mean before melee who really wanted ICs or G&W in?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

1) We cancel each other out these
2) All of these polls I'd visited on my other computer so I have no links at all, but I'm sure that some research would yield the same result for you. Krystal and Toad are consistently top picks.
3) The staff pretty much had 4 "B" button moves built right in: Staff Boost, Fire Blaster, Ice Blast, Ground Quake. (not sure of the names). And No-one else has a staff so you can be assured that she would have completely unique moves. Many characters fight with hands and feet. Heck, fox has the same anatomy as wolf, allbeit with a slighter build. There is no dispute here, Krystal has the better potential for a good moveset.
4) You made light of it, but, just as with points 2&3, it still stands that it hasn't been disproven.
5) We have more villains than females, though it does give him a good foothold, I'll admit, Krystal still has the better leverage here, if but slightly.
6) It just means that, if you take all of the above into consideration, there is no good reason for Krystal not to make it in. There's no foothold for a case against her, Wolf doesn't present the same, impervious front that Krystal does

 

[commonyoshi]

Wolf is lame and annoying, Bill should be int he game instead.

 

[Kokichi]

HOLY CRAP! This thread spiraled out of control in like... three posts.

Well, your first response to what I said about Fox, Falco, Wolf, and Leon doesn't make any sense. I was just stating my wishful thinking and hopes and you retailated what wasn't even an arguement to begin with. So I'm just going to ignore that, if you don't mind.

Nobody wants to come find you because you're a dickheaded little furry fanboy with no capacity for intellectual debate: When your points are inevitably adressed, disproven and dismissed, you either ignore or reiterate them.

Completely owned. Nothing more needs to be said. Please read the topic, do a little research, and know the facts before you start going on a posting rampage, Mr. Tails-Avatar-Man.

It also got him a stern warning, which he's now dutifully followed up with another warning, and possibly a third. And, seeing how flame goes for more warning points than spam, a temporary ban on CrotchCancel wouldn't be out of the question at this point. Take heed from his mistakes.

And, since I'm already in here because I'm having to tan CrotchCancel's little behind, I might as well put in my two cents on the issue.

Personally, I agree with Sonic that yes, Krystal does have priority over Wolf when it comes to character choice from the SF series. I think it's safe to say Fox and Falco will remain from SSBM, no? And I also think it's safe to say that Wolf and Krystal are the two SF characters with the largest chance to be in SSBB as playable characters, right? Perhaps Slippy too, just because he's...Slippy...but, anyways, Wolf and Krystal. Top two choices.

I think Krystal would have the highest chance to get in due to a few reasons. For one, she is, in fact, a she. There are only four females right now in SSBM (Jiggs, Samus, Zelda/Sheik, and Peach). That means there are 21 males. That's a pretty low ratio for women. Seeing Zero-Suit Samus in Brawl makes me suspect that they're going to reach out to get more female fighters, even in places where you'd least expect them (seriously, whoever thought Zero-Suit Samus would be in Brawl?). So, I think Krystal might be one of the first female characters they go to.

Secondly, I think she is naturally a bit more different from Fox and Falco than Wolf is. Wolf is about the same body frame as both Fox and Falco, has about the same level of training and experience, and just I'd assume he would have access to about the same equipment (blasters, jetpack, etc.). Krystal is of a lighter frame, has a staff (which right there would be a brand new addition to the SSB series...no other character has a staff, and I can't think of any Nintendo character that DOES have a staff that would have a chance to be in Brawl), and, as Sonic reminded me, she also has some degree of psychic potency. Thus, I would imagine that her moveset would be completely different from Fox or Falco's, and I think that the creators would prefer to have more unique characters than characters that closely resemble one another (as evidence of the "We're changing the clones' movesets" comment) from Sakurai).

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Wolf does not have a chance in Brawl, nor am I saying that I don't want to see him in Brawl. I would *love* to see Wolf be in Brawl; I think he's one of the cooler Star Fox characters, up there with Falco. Also, I am not saying that, if acquired in the game, he'd have the same moveset as Fox and Falco. The creators can be completely original with his moveset, making him an entirely different character from Fox and Falco. However, just based off of who he is and what he can do (in the canon series), he'd be a bit harder to come up with an original, believable moveset. Again, the fact that he's about the same body size of Fox and Falco makes me put him lower than Krystal; durability is another factor, just as moveset potentiality is, because how sturdy a character is another deciding factor (that's a good reason why I think Bowser Jr. would be in, to counter Bowser's heavy-weight appeal).

Anyways, I'd love to see both characters in Brawl. However, if I was forced to only choose one, I'd go with Krystal. Even though I absolutely *hated* Star Fox Adventures (must...kill....Tricky...), I find the character likable, unique, and kawaii

 

[Crom]

If we're counting characters in SSBM now, theres a bigger shortage of villans than female characters.

I would much rather see a completely new unique moveset for Wolf than a staff moveset for krystal. I don't know, Kystal just doesn't appeal to me at all, if anything she just pisses me off. Just the plain old typical "super hot cartoon character/animal/whatever that can fight good too". Wolf just looks mean, and that appeals to me more in a fighting game.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

I don't mind her too much I just hate her stupid fake australian accent and the fact that they make her wear little (I'm not attracted by skimpily clothed animals) at least in adventures they made the fox fancying her bits funny by putting in cheezy saxophone music. Wolf appeals to me more as a character.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

If we're counting characters in SSBM now, theres a bigger shortage of villans than female characters.

Villains:
G.Dorf
Bowser
Mewtwo
Wario
Meta Knight

Females:
Samus
Zelda
Peach


Jigglypuff might apear female, but could be either since it's not specified and jigglypuffs appear exactly the same no matter the gender. I suppose you could coun Nana as being female since it is possible to play as her, but you might be able to call DK a villain since that's where he got his start.

 

[Kashakunaki]

I'll try and keep that in mind, Mr. Moderator. I just get a little aggressive to people who post arguements that have already been disproved and argued against many, many times previously in the thread!

Here are my reasons:
1) Personally, I prefer krystal, but that should hardly mater
2) In every, and I mean EVERY, haracter vote that I have ever seen that isn't run by a Wolf fanboy, Krystal shows up FAR ahead of wolf, if he shows up at all.
3) Krystal's staff is a BIG reason. It makes has some obvious "B" button moves that could easily fit into the game. It also allows for a completely unique moveset, not just from Fox and Falco, but from every other character since no other character wields anything remotely resembling a staff.
4) Krystal actually does have a large fanbase...
5) Her gender, SSB has a large shortage of females making Krystal a precious comodity.
6) The complete package. This is one of those times when the whole is greater than the some of its parts. There is no good reason NOT to include krystal. She has everyting that one could want ias far as qualification is concerned.

1) Personally, I prefer Wolf, but opinions and biased thoughts do not belong in the court room.
2) Let's see here, as far as I can recollect there has only been one official character vote and neither Krystal nor Wolf placed high on it. It was the Japanese poll. King DeDeDe being the most suggested.
3) Krystal's staff is a small reason. Yes, she brings something unique to the table with the staff, but that's about it. The moveset in and of itself is irrelevant.
4) Wolf actually does have a large fanbase, but, more or less, that doesn't matter too much. I doubt Mr. Game and Watch had any amount of fanbase, or Zero Suit Samus for that matter. Surprises are a common courtesy amongst the franchise.
5) Yeah, SSB does have a large shortage of Females, but it is also highly lacking in villians. Both of which are precious to Sakurai.
6) Could you perphaps specify what these "qualifications" are? Hmm?

As you can see, it's not so much that Wolf is a bad choice as much as it is that Krytal is a much better choice and, thusly, she is pretty much considered a Sure win by many.

As you can see, it's not so much that Krystal is a bad choice (Which she isn't) as much as it is that Wolf is a better choice.

I think Krystal would have the highest chance to get in due to a few reasons. For one, she is, in fact, a she. There are only four females right now in SSBM (Jiggs, Samus, Zelda/Sheik, and Peach). That means there are 21 males. That's a pretty low ratio for women. Seeing Zero-Suit Samus in Brawl makes me suspect that they're going to reach out to get more female fighters, even in places where you'd least expect them (seriously, whoever thought Zero-Suit Samus would be in Brawl?). So, I think Krystal might be one of the first female characters they go to.

I can't argue with anything there. I agree. Makes since. Also, I do believe that Sakurai officially stated he was looking for more females and villians, so we can go beyond "I believe" to "I know."

Wolf is about the same body frame as both Fox and Falco, has about the same level of training and experience, and just I'd assume he would have access to about the same equipment (blasters, jetpack, etc.).

I'm sorry, I fail to see the point you are getting across here. Because he has the same stature as Fox and Falco he is thereby degraded in quality as a unique character choice?

Krystal is of a lighter frame, has a staff (which right there would be a brand new addition to the SSB series...no other character has a staff, and I can't think of any Nintendo character that DOES have a staff that would have a chance to be in Brawl), and, as Sonic reminded me, she also has some degree of psychic potency. Thus, I would imagine that her moveset would be completely different from Fox or Falco's, and I think that the creators would prefer to have more unique characters than characters that closely resemble one another (as evidence of the "We're changing the clones' movesets" comment) from Sakurai).

Yes, her staff would contribute a unique add-on to Brawl. No other character has a staff, but other than that, she doesn't have much else going for her other than Sakurai would set his eye on her because she is a female character. Sure, she has potential to have a unique moveset, but that just tells her chances of her being a clone are lessened, but the fact of the matter is, anybody can be a clone. Also, I think her psychic capabilities are hardly noteworthy, as she goes as far as being a simple telepath and not much more. Also, the "changing the clones' movesets" comment really does intail much that Sakurai doesn't like clones. Wolf has equal potential to be clone-free as Krystal. Now before you tell me, "Wtf no, shut up noob," listen. It is up to developing team no matter one. They could give Mario three completely different and unique movesets. Wolf has the potentail to be just as clone free as Krystal, as her staff simple adds to the variety. And the arguement about Wolf's stature is rather invalid. Would FLUDD or Paper Mario be clones of current moveset Mario? Not likely.

Villains:
G.Dorf
Bowser
Mewtwo
Wario
Meta Knight

Females:
Samus
Zelda
Peach

More like

Villians:
Ganondorf
Bowser
Mewtwo

Females:
Peach
Zelda/Shiek
Samus
Jigglypuff

As we are talking in regards to SSBM.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

No, we are going by amount of vilains Vs. Females, you are only giving yourself th most favourable possible matchup since it's DEFINITE that wario and meta knight will be in it, but no ne females have been added yet.... and Jigglypuff has no definite gender

 

[Blazer]

Zero Suit Samus is an added female. So:

Villians:
G Dorf
Mew2
Bowser
Wario

Females:
Peach
Zero Suit Samus
Samus
Jiggly
Zelda/Sheik

I don't count Metaknight as a villain because he isn't constantly villainousand has at various times helped Kirby.

 

[cb_marth]

Wolf is lame and annoying, Bill should be int he game instead.

What no way. Wolf is one of the coolest characters. Bill lmao, I doubt he will be in it. I think Panther or Leon has a better chance then Bill. Ha man Peppy has a better chance then Bill.

 

[Kokichi]

And the arguement about Wolf's stature is rather invalid. Would FLUDD or Paper Mario be clones of current moveset Mario? Not likely.

Actually, the argument about his stature is *not* unfounded. You're not going to want everyone to be the same weight and size. That wouldn't allow for good variation in the game. I can't really think of anyone that has Krystal's frame...the closest would be Sheik, but I think she's a bit more durable than Krystal. The durability of a character is an important factor. Look at Mario Kart, for example. Or, in the case of Melee, we've got heavyweights Bowser, Ganondorf, and DK. That's only three true heavyweights. I think Wario will be added into that roster, probably along with King DeDeDe. This gives the game more variation when it comes to heavyweights and mixing big slow strong guys with small fast weak guy.

Wolf's size and weight is pretty standard in Melee; he's about the size of Fox, Falco, Mario, Luigi, Sheik, Dr. Mario, maybe Peach, and maybe a few others. If he fast-fell he'd be tied with Fox, Falco, and Captain Falcon, though if not, he'd probably fall as fast as Link or Roy. Thus, you can see he sort of fits into a "standard" SSBM size.

Krystal, however, has a relatively weak and fragile frame. Not many characteres in Brawl would be comparable to her - she'd maybe be the size and frame of Sheik, though I think Sheik would be a bit more durable. She might be comparable to ZSS in Brawl. Anyways, as you can see, she doesn't really match any other character. I think that's a pretty unique quality that the gives her that extra added edge for when the developers are thinking of who to add.

Also, on the point of Krystal's staff, I'm not saying that her moveset would be unique and Wolf's wouldn't because of it. Wolf could be just as completely original from Fox and Falco as Krystal would. However, I think that it would be *easier* for them to implement Krystal's moves, seeing as there's already a good idea of her pre-defined abilities and what she physically can and can't do than Wolf. Basically, I feel that Krystal would be easier to put into the game than Wolf. And it's this ease of implementation, coupled with her frame, her being a her, and her unique moveset from the get-go that makes me feel that she'd be more of a possible character choice for Brawl than Wolf.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hmmm im gonna say my two cents about it.

Wolf- However I do not think hes a bad sugestion. I can't really judge if he's good to. He's not the main StarFox villian, thats Andross. Is Wolf O'Donnell the same person as 'Star Wolf'? If then, he is one of the mayor villians making him a better candidate. However since he's still around the same size as Fox and Falco, making a original moveset would be rather hard. Im not saying its impossible, but im saying its harder then making a moveset for... Lets say Krystal? Also I dont think it really needed to have a StarFox villian, since Fox and Falco already have some sorta rivality. Same goes for other franchises, with even my favorite (Donkey Kong Country) not being an exception.

Krystal- Yeah, Krystal... Shes a good candidate for Brawl. Made its just because the only StarFox game I ever played was Adventures... But whatever. Im not even mentioning that she's a female. Its her magic and staff based moveset with here and there some techno and pshycic stuf that makes me like her. Its a combination you don't see too often outside MMORPG's. And she's somewhat more important to the StarFox franchise. She has another sort of build then Fox, Im guessing she's around the same weight only somewhat slower and higher jumps perhaps? Anyways, yeah Im in for Krystal. But im not 100% convinced she will be in Brawl...

The other characters should just stay back at their Arwings.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Zero Suit Samus is an added female. So:

Villians:
G Dorf
Mew2
Bowser
Wario

Females:
Peach
Zero Suit Samus
Samus
Jiggly
Zelda/Sheik

I don't count Metaknight as a villain because he isn't constantly villainousand has at various times helped Kirby.

Wolf has helped out fox too, Metaknight is still an enemy. And it has been directly stated that ZS Samus is not a new character, but rather samus will become ZS samus under certain conditions so, my original list still stands.... and jiggly can be either male or female, so it doesn't count as either

 

[Crom]

I was using character currently in SSBM as an example because Kokichi did in post right above mine. If you look at it that way, than you're looking at the same way sakuri and his team are. They have their SSBM roster, now they need to figure out what to add and what to remove.

I counted the villian list as:
Ganondorf
Bowser

Mewtwo I diden't really think of as a villian, because I thought we were counting the games he was from, not the TV show. All I've played is Pokemon Red and Blue in like the 5th grade, so if he's a villian in some game after that let me know. All you do in those 2 games is just catch him then hes with you. Not much of a villian

Then theres female characters:
Zelda/Sheik
Peach
Samus
Nana
Jiggly

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Why on earth!?!

You are searching for the most favourable source... we now know that metaknight and wario will be in it, so, they are... no question.

The fact that this is a wolf thread and you guys are being beaen argument wise should show you something. You bring that argument to a standard thread or better, the krystal thread, and you'll get torn appart.

Krystal is the #1 choice for a new SF character, it's as simple as that.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Hardly, It's pretty much all opinion based, now i'd rather talk about wolf than argue this anymore

 

[Blazer]

But I can prove that the Jiggs is female. Jiggs was ALWAYS female in Gold/silver/Crystal. No matter how hard your tried it was a single gender Poke'mon so, you fail.

 

[kaid]

Gender Ratio
Male: 25 % Female: 75 %

 

[Kal aMari]

Krystal is the #1 choice for a new SF character, it's as simple as that.

I was with you up until that point. I agree that the reasoning between the villian vs. female ratio is flakey. Still, I don't think that really matters. Krystal and Wolf are both extremely likely; it could go either way, it could go both ways. The fact that you (and I) think that she's the best choice doesn't mean that anybody who thinks Wolf should make it is wrong.

Now, as for the ratio:

Villians
Ganondorf - no explanation needed.
Bowser - same
Mewtwo - even if you don't count the movies, Mewtwo is portrayed in Melee as a bad guy. Evil laughter, cocky attitude (he's the only one that doesn't clap after a match), always scowling...sounds like a stereotypical villian to me.
Meta-Knight - I've always wondered why he helps Kirby at all. The best that I can figure out is that he wants to be the one to face Kirby, and so helps him defeat the "lesser" enemies. Besides, Revenge of the Meta-Knight basically takes away any doubt that he's a bad guy.
Wario - No explanation.
Villian total: 5

Females
Peach
Zelda/Shiek
Marth
NOT Nana. She doesn't count towards the female side any more than DK counts as a villian.
Jigglypuff - Even if R/B doesn't say it, I believe the Jigglypuff in the show is female. Besides, there's nothing that counts towards it being male, and it just seems female.
Samus/Zamus - Sakurai has stated that these are not separate characters.
Female total: 4

 

[Crom]

So then Popo doesn't count as a male character? You can play as either one of them. Nana is A) a character, and B) a female. A female character.

I don't even think a shortage of villians or a shortage of females is a good reason to bring a character in anyways, the only reason I brought up the list of villians was to counter the arguement "Well she's female, and theres a shortage of females, so she should be in.". Also i still don't think those things make mewtwo a villian, I'd say thats just his style. He's got an evil style, but hes never a villian in the game. Infact, he helps you win the great poke championship and save the world from your ******* rival

 

[Silver Flame]

1.Ice climbers counts as both male and female chars since it is possible to play as both
2.Meta-Knight is not a villian, he only fights Kirby because King DeDeDe tells him too,feudal system a knight and his vassel lord, Meta Knight is a Star Warrior like Kirby and always fights him with honor, his fights with kirby seem more like training, Meta Knight is usally helping Kirby, HE IS NOT A VILLIAN.

 

[SupaSmashBrotha]

Fox>Falco>Wolf>Krystal.

There now Hedgedawg leave this thread and go masturbate to a Krystal pic you furry.

 

[kaid]

^ and you can go back to mastubationg to a Wolf pic you furry.

what? it makes just as much sence as what HE said...

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'll swing this, Nana counts 50% towards the Female count as does J.puff... how about that?

 

[Silver Flame]

I agree on the ice climbers but jiggy is female in ssb,
jiggy has a 75/25 female/male ratio and wears a bow as one of her costumes

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Still, ice climbers, by default use popo as your character which tilts IC in the male direction, and Jiggs can swin either way...

rounding gives you the same result either way though

 

[kaid]

When Jiggs first appeared in smash, Pokemon didn't HAVE genders. (Well, except for the nidorans)

Just because it has a bow as ONE costume, doesn't make it Female any more than the Fighting Headband makes it male.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

That was my thoughts but, like I said, I'm willing to say that between Jiggs and Nana, there is one point for females somewhere

 

[Silver Flame]

that's fine so let's get back to Wolf

Wolf for Brawl

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Fine:

Wolf for brawl, but only after Krystal