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Wolf O'Donnell for Brawl: The only good choice for a starfox villain

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Kashakunaki

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We're talking in regards to the StarFox franchise as of now, kaid. The Metroid and Kirby series have nothing to do with this right now. As for Krystal... argh... I'm going to give you one hell of a debate later, I'm just not in the mood right now. Thank you Inferno and... and... the guy with the Link avatar, can't remember your name XD

As for Panther and Leon, Leon is undoubtably the more appropriate choice. While we can debate over opinions as to who we like more and who is cooler, the facts are that Falco, the second highest ranking Star Fox member, who will more than likely be returning to Brawl, is rival to Leon Powalski, and Leon has been in the original Star Wolf team since creation. Leon is the more logical choice. Plus, Panther annoys Leon and Wolf =P
 

Dr.ROC

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*Sigh* I guess you made your point. Oh well spot on, spot on. forgot to take that into account, falco being rival to leon.
 

Kashakunaki

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I read your post and signed your petition, Yoshiherder. Well done.

Well, as I won't be argueing against other people as to why and why not Wolf should be in Brawl, but rather, pointing out facts and reasons that suggest Wolf should be in Brawl to Sakurai I'll be bringing up slightly different points. For example, I won't have to say, "He won't be a clone." It's Sakurai, unlike us, he does decide what happens and what doesn't.

EDIT: These are the general and vague points I have made that I'll make paragraphs out of in the letter.

1. Star Fox is one of Nintendo’s more popular franchises.
2. Star Wolf is the rivaling gang to Star Fox.
3. Wolf and Leon are the rivals, or counters, to Fox and Falco.
4. Wolf and Leon, Wolf more so, have a good back story and are dynamic characters.
5. The only other main villains or antagonists of the Star Fox franchise are General Scales, Andross, and the Aparoid Queen. General Scales is presumed dead, but otherwise, he’s hardly a noteworthy character and strays far from the general idea of the Star Fox series. Andross is a cumbersome and unruly idea, as he entirely lacks a body and also lacks variety. The Aparoid Queen is dead and would just be an illogical choice do to size and character.
6. The Star Fox series lacks a villain in the Smash Brothers series, while most other main franchises have villains such as the Mario and Zelda series.
7. It would be a great tribute to Star Fox fans to have Fox vs. Wolf in hand to hand combat.

Revisions? Ideas?
 

kaid

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A couple points.

The following nintendo franchises sold a game for more copys than Starfox 64. (source)
Mario (SMB, 40.24 mil)
Pokemon (Red/Blue/Green, 31.37 mil)
Duck Hunt (28.31 mil)
Mario Kart (MK64, 9.87 mil)
DK (DKC, 9.30 mil)
Nintendogs (7.71 mil)
LoZ (OoT, 7.60 mil)
Smash Bros (Melee, 6.10 mil)
Tetris (5.58 mil)
Dr. Mario (GB, 5.34 mil)
Kirby (Dreamland, 5.13 mil)
Animal Crossing (Wild World, 4.89 mil)
* Dr mario (NES, 4.85 mil)
Excitebike (4.16 mil)
Brain Training (4.11 mil)
Starfox (64, 4.00 mil)
*Starfox (SNES, 2.99 mil)
*Starfox (Adventures, 1.85 mil)
*Starfox (Assault, below 1 mil)

If you actually look at the numbers, Starfox is NOT one of Nintendo's "more popular franchises."
Hell, DOCTOR MARIO has sold more games than Fox!
 

Stryks

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Whats ur point Kaid? Star Fox IS one of the most popular, so WHAT if they sold less, that proves nothing, SF is very popular, and awesome...
 

saberhof

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A couple points.

The following nintendo franchises sold a game for more copys than Starfox 64. (source)
Mario (SMB, 40.24 mil)
Pokemon (Red/Blue/Green, 31.37 mil)
Duck Hunt (28.31 mil)
Mario Kart (MK64, 9.87 mil)
DK (DKC, 9.30 mil)
Nintendogs (7.71 mil)
LoZ (OoT, 7.60 mil)
Smash Bros (Melee, 6.10 mil)
Tetris (5.58 mil)
Dr. Mario (GB, 5.34 mil)
Kirby (Dreamland, 5.13 mil)
Animal Crossing (Wild World, 4.89 mil)
* Dr mario (NES, 4.85 mil)
Excitebike (4.16 mil)
Brain Training (4.11 mil)
Starfox (64, 4.00 mil)
*Starfox (SNES, 2.99 mil)
*Starfox (Adventures, 1.85 mil)
*Starfox (Assault, below 1 mil)

If you actually look at the numbers, Starfox is NOT one of Nintendo's "more popular franchises."
Hell, DOCTOR MARIO has sold more games than Fox!
umm...so?.
 

Stryks

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Man ur one negative nancy u know that? ok mybe it doesnt sell, but the fans are still there, I didnt bought SF Assault, but I still know hes popular, u can ask any guy that knows about videogames, and theyre gonna know who SF is... Knowing how u are ur gonna keep cagando el palo til the very end of time til one of us leaves the forum, point is, just because it doesnt sell doesnt mean it aint popular...
 

Stryks

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here are my statistics:

Go to a **** videogame store and ask a guy that KNOWS about VG (Not the guys that worked there cause most of them dont know ****) if he knows SF... thats my statistics right there...
 

Stryks

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Yeah, hell yeah... My cousin (Which is a girl and does not know **** about videogmes) knows what SF is, that doesnt prove anything, just making a point here...
 

kaid

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Yeah, hell yeah...
So how many halo and GTA junkies actually LIKE Starfox?

Considering Vice City alone sold more than the entire starfox series put together, it appears very few if any were willing to put their money where their mouth was.

EDIT: 3 Starfox games that sold over 1 mil vs 43 Mario games that did the same? Hardly "so many." Even Metroid sold 6 games that topped 1 mil.
 

Stryks

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So WHAT if it sells less, and its true what supersmashbrotha said, if the series aint popular, why are they still making games? hmm? From what I recalled they just released a SF game foor the DS, and u comparing GTA with star fox, its like u compare LoZ to the lemmings games, SF is popular lets just leave it at that...

But just in case...

*Grabs his shotgun and hunts Kaid down*
*Enter at Kaids house/apartment/basement/moms house*
Freeze, Bounty Hunter!
 

Kokiri

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Wolf O' Donnel would be nice to have in the game. Yeah, Melee lacked Villians of Starfox. Brawl should atleast have Wolf in my opinion, and a storyline mode. There HAS to be a storyline this time if they have Snake and Metaknight. If not then, oh well :(
 

Stryks

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uhh dude back then anything that had to do with mario selled, I use to buy cookies just because it had mario face on it, right now when there are like a million games made a year, its harder to make good games, tough SF is way more pupular, if they would have made a SF game on the NES, it would have selled like curly fries...
 

Kashakunaki

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Ha ha, I know exactly what kind of person you are, Kaid. A by the book, by the fact kind of guy. If it isn't proven and isn't statistical, who cares? You have to see it to belive it. You point out every counter point and misthread noticeable. You also seem to like using irrelevant points to prove your stand. Irrelevance never did any good for anyone.

Well then, let's dance, shall we?

Let's start with the intial defintion of popular itself.
Popular - regarded with favor, approval, or affection by people in general

That may be only one of the meanings encompassed in popular, but it's the one that is applicable here and the one we are discussing. Now then, by definition, in this case, it isn't necessarily a factor of how many different franchises have sold how many copies of what games, but how many people know and like the product itself. I guareentee you Star Fox fans are amongst one of the more loyal group of fans out there.

A couple points.

The following nintendo franchises sold a game for more copys than Starfox 64. (source)
Mario (SMB, 40.24 mil)
Pokemon (Red/Blue/Green, 31.37 mil)
Duck Hunt (28.31 mil)
Mario Kart (MK64, 9.87 mil)
DK (DKC, 9.30 mil)
Nintendogs (7.71 mil)
LoZ (OoT, 7.60 mil)
Smash Bros (Melee, 6.10 mil)
Tetris (5.58 mil)
Dr. Mario (GB, 5.34 mil)
Kirby (Dreamland, 5.13 mil)
Animal Crossing (Wild World, 4.89 mil)
* Dr mario (NES, 4.85 mil)
Excitebike (4.16 mil)
Brain Training (4.11 mil)
Starfox (64, 4.00 mil)
*Starfox (SNES, 2.99 mil)
*Starfox (Adventures, 1.85 mil)
*Starfox (Assault, below 1 mil)

If you actually look at the numbers, Starfox is NOT one of Nintendo's "more popular franchises."
Hell, DOCTOR MARIO has sold more games than Fox!
We're talking about iconal value. If one says Nintendo, you don't think of Excitebike, you don't think of Kriby (Which is HAL, by the way, not Nintendo), or Animal Crossing. You think of Mario, Samus, Link, or Fox. They are the icons of the industry.

So how many halo and GTA junkies actually LIKE Starfox?
I think you are getting the meaning of popular mixed up here. One doesn't have to like something to make it popular. A huge number of people dislike Final Fantasy VII, but it is still popular. It's a wide spread knowledge of something that makes it popular rather than likeability. For instance, I might not like GTA, but if I've heard of it, I'm adding to it's popularity. The more people that know about something, the more popular it is. Halo is as popular as it is because it was such a largely advertised thing. The more people know about it, the more popular it is. Sales do not reflect to the dot a series' popularity. Also, on the opposite side of the spectrum, one can easily like a game, but not play it. I know many people who won't play or have never played Final Fantasy VII, but boy they sure like it because of the plot, story, and characters, and that's what people love about Star Fox. The universe of it all. The depth behind it's worlds and characters. The unfolding story. Despite the not-so-successful recent entries in the Star Fox franchise, people still enjoy the concept and game as a whole.

Ahem, pardon me. My mind was splashing every which way and I couldn't turn off the valve. Sorry if my ideas and points are scattered and unorganized.

Considering Vice City alone sold more than the entire starfox series put together, it appears very few if any were willing to put their money where their mouth was.
Again. Sells don't necessarily reflect a game's popularity. The Pope can be a popular guy, but that doesn't mean you're Catholic and that you are going to switch over to Catholosium.

My mind is everywhere right now and I'm not able to focus right now. That should be sufficient enough for now. Anyways, back to the other people. Revisions, ideas, or other points I can add to that list?
 

SupaSmashBrotha

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This is from Wikipedia:

As of August 2006, Star Fox has sold 2.99 million units worldwide (1.63 million in the US and 0.8 in Japan).The game also took the #115 spot on EGM's "The Greatest 200 Videogames of Their Time."
Apparently, it does seem to be popular.:chuckle:
 

kaid

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Let's start with the intial defintion of popular itself.
Popular - regarded with favor, approval, or affection by people in general

That may be only one of the meanings encompassed in popular, but it's the one that is applicable here and the one we are discussing.

...One doesn't have to like something to make it popular.
Would you care to explain the diference between "Favor, approval, or affection" and "Liking something"?

@ SSBrother- yes, it's 115th of all time. Over 100 other games are more popular than it.
 

saberhof

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Kaid: why is this a matter?, SO!!!???. who cares, wolf pwns. what is your problem with wolf, if you dont like him stop posting...
 

Stryks

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pwnage is comin... lol... man kaid just wont acept hes been pwned, we FAVOR SF over dr. mario, we aprove SF over dr. mario, u get the point, SF PWNS!
Just because u say:
*SF doesnt sell!*
-So, we dont care...

*SF aint popular*
-Have u been living under a rock for the last 10 years or what?

*Dr mario sold more thn SF*
-No ****, in the VG era were Mario was king, everything with mario selled

*Show me statistics that SF is popular*
-Its FACT, get that?

*U sayin halo and GTA player know about SF?*
-YES, u want it in spanish?: Si cabron si saben de star fox ya callate!

*Would you care to explain the diference between "Favor, approval, or affection" and "Liking something"?*
-Do u have like an off switch or something? go get a dictionary...

*umm... SF Aint popular*
-... (shoots Kaid in the head) BOOM headshot! ok where were we? ah yes... Wolf FTW!
 

SupaSmashBrotha

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Kaid do you realize how many games have been made in history a lot more than 100 I can tell you that. So i would think even a spot on that list would make any game a classic.
 

kaid

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Kaid: why is this a matter?, SO!!!???. who cares, wolf pwns. what is your problem with wolf, if you dont like him stop posting...
You have me wrong. Kashakunaki called me rightly- I am an anal-retentive *******. I'm fine with Wolf... as long as Krystal gets in first. But when you claim "Starfox is popular" without any evidence...
 

Kashakunaki

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Melee 6.10 mil
64: 5.55 mil
Uh-huh. I'd call those pretty good sales, wouldn't you? Mmm hmm. Oh, who seems to be top tier in these games? Fox. Let's see here. So the entire Smash community knows about Fox, and probably Falco, more or less, no? Hmm, well, wouldn't that also me a large majority of them would know their origins? Yes, it would seem so. So, would that not mean that the entire Star Fox series is popular among the Smash community? Hmm, I would think so.
 

Kashakunaki

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Well, that same list has Advance Wars as # 85, F-Zero as #69, Metroid prime as #52, Punch out! as #44, Super Metroid as #23, Metroid as # 11... See where I'm going?
You're not getting the point. 115th of all time. Do I have to spell that out for you? Want me to fetch some statistics on how many gaves have ever been produced and sold?

Care to define the term in general?

Which?
Whoops, quotations are in order. Care to define the term, "in general?"
 

kaid

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You're not getting the point. 115th of all time. Do I have to spell that out for you? Want me to fetch some statistics on how many gaves have ever been produced and sold?
I'm afraid you are not getting mine. There are games MORE worthey (by popularity alone) of having 4 characters in brawl that Starfox. (which, wile off topic, is the source of this discussion) This is the root of my argument of why we can't all get along and have Krystal AND Wolf AND Falco.

Whoops, quotations are in order. Care to define the term, "in general?"
"With exceptions, the major trend agrees with."
So what's that got to do with MY question?
 

Stryks

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Man doesnt he like ever shut up... ok ur turn, give me the statistics on how many videogames there have been made...

*Off topic* Steve irwin, the croc hunter has died, that is just simply sad...
 
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