Wisdom's Weapons - Zelda Moveset Analysis/Discussion [Currently casually discussing~]

[Zylach]

I've loved this move even before the patch. I actually used it for spacing which wasn't always a good idea but since it does have some of the best range in Zelda's arsenal, it paid off more often than it should have. I've found that a lot of people have trouble shielding all of this move. They can't seem to get all the hits memorized and end up getting the last one when they drop shield. This goes for tournament level players. Dunno what's up with that. Most of the rest of this move has been stated. Multihit wrecks spotdodges, disjoint helps in spacing, kill potential is quite good (killing around 120% with no rage).

3.5/5 It's my favorite smash of hers but it's got its problems.

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

Ahh Fsmash, one of my favs. Its lasting hitbox can catch people, and since they've fixed it, I've caught people in the air before too. It KO's reliably around 120% from most places on the stage IIRC. Has decent range on the last hit that can sometimes catch people off guard. Feels safer on shield than many of Zelda's other attacks depending on spacing and the character you're facing at least. Extra magical.

Used in the same way for ledge guarding as Ftilt would be. Land hits on unsafe landings near the ledge, decent with a dash back pivot. If you land this because they screwed up their landing, congrats, you more than likely get a KO. Because it's only really useful on an unsafe landing right over the ledge. You have better, safer options in the same situation, but if you know you can land if you might as well go for it.

It's a reliable KO move. People can fall out of it sometimes, but that's okay, at least we're not still pre-patch status. This is probably the best the move has ever been (Melee's was gross). There's not much else to say. 3.75/5.

 

[MOI-ARI]

Hmm i don't really kill with this move, when i do it's practically OFF the stage edge with my opponent at like %2468....Haha nah but i have a hard time implementing the move safely. When i land it, its only on a roll read or blasting the ledge.

Im sure it can be used effectively for spacies, interchanging between ftilt and the Fsmash can make for a decent mind game in smaller confined space, pivoting the moves on opponents roll Keeping them on one side. its worth a shot.

Pretty strong move when connected actually so that a plus for me. I believe it shield dmg is pretty good? Enough for one SP Fair for sheild break? Just throwing that out there i dont know **** :")


PrePatch i was able to pull off Dtilt>Fsmash at around %60-%72, flipping my opponent behind me and if they hadn't teched i could Farores Elevator to KO. Now its more awkward to land PostPatch and haven't tested more with it. Works on Robin at %80 though...

3/5

 

[ZombieBran]

F-Smash!

Sometimes I see the sparkles hitting them with no effect but whatevs.

People of all skill levels drop their shield early just to give us an undeserved KO. I guess they're hoping to punish us right as the end lag starts with a smash or something. It don't work boys, stop doing that. It's shameful how many of my fraud KOs are from that.

I hate that F-Smash is no longer spammable because apparently Sakurai/team decided what Zelda needs is a sprinkle of more endlag everywhere.

Transcendent priority is nice, it kills sorta early, it's decently fast for a Zelda kill move, and she bends really forward for some extra range. But that 3 game strong (with a patch!) unreliability hurts.

3.25/5 for the cast
Maybe 4/5 for Zelda.

 

[Brinzy]

My move of choice when I get those fat shieldbreakers!

If you can avoid decaying this move, which is hard given Zelda's general lack of good options, you can nearly always kill with this move at like 80% on most of the cast that matters. If you're going to play Zelda seriously, learning how to finish stocks as soon as possible is critical, because you won't get many opportunities.

The main difference between Fsmash and all the rest of her kill moves is that it isn't so hard to hit with. I never really considered her Dsmash a good kill move, but more like a savior if the opponent is past 130%, so Fsmash is probably her best kill option in most situations.

Something you can do with it that I didn't really see mentioned directly is, against a good opponent, stand near the ledge and do something like dtilt to make it seem as if you're covering a standard getup, then turn and Fsmash the hell out of them. It's very easy to time and will put them back on the ledge in most situations or flat out kill. I know baiting spotdodges and rolls have been mentioned, but this particular situation has won me tournament matches.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

We're on usmash now! We'll be talking about usmash in the newest patch which is actually fairly good.

Ok first off, look at how beautiful usmash is. SO MANY SPARKLES

Believe it or not, this is now Zelda's most powerful smash attack, killing at about 90% on Sheik. Now that it reliably kills, it's uses are even better.

- It's very good at catching standard ledge getups since it lasts forever. Now that it kills, it's worth doing that even more
- Very good for racking damage together from stringing utilts or into an usmash at low percents, uthrow into usmash on fast fallers at low percents, or from a dtilt at mid percents.
- If you run and jump cancel it it can be a good punish since it goes farther than just running and usmashing
- Decent-ish anti-air since it's disjointed and kills, though it's slow.
- An alright OOS option, though nowhere near as good as Brawl due to the range reduction
- Very good move to punish airdodges with
- If you read a spotdodge, usmash will outlast it.

I'd give it a 3.5/5. It's very good at a lot of things but it's horizontal range is just like lolwhere

 

[BJN39]

We're on usmash now! We'll be talking about usmash in the newest patch which is actually fairly good.

Ok first off, look at how beautiful usmash is. SO MANY SPARKLES

Believe it or not, this is now Zelda's most powerful smash attack, killing at about 90% on Sheik. Now that it reliably kills, it's uses are even better.

- It's very good at catching standard ledge getups since it lasts forever. Now that it kills, it's worth doing that even more
- Very good for racking damage together from stringing utilts or into an usmash at low percents, uthrow into usmash on fast fallers at low percents, or from a dtilt at mid percents.
- If you run and jump cancel it it can be a good punish since it goes farther than just running and usmashing
- Decent-ish anti-air since it's disjointed and kills, though it's slow.
- An alright OOS option, though nowhere near as good as Brawl due to the range reduction
- Very good move to punish airdodges with
- If you read a spotdodge, usmash will outlast it.

I'd give it a 3.5/5. It's very good at a lot of things but it's horizontal range is just like lolwhere

Ofc gorl it's just among ha most fab moves. I always liked how it looked. "Waves Good B Y E to ha opponents." In the WiiU version it's just very pretty imo.

TeeHee what a timing for Usmash to be buffeT. Right before we all wanted to tr4sh it.

Now with the KO power it can function a lot like Bowser Jr's, if you've ever seen Tweek play, he'll get really good reads and KO incredibly early with it. Now Zelda's is basically MewTwo's in terms of power, so...

Overall it's still working with very small hit-boxes and a lot of endlag. It can be very rewarding on hit, now being among the strongest multi-hit Usmashes, as well as having one of the highest damage totals of Multi-hit Usmashes, as well as just decent as far as move-wide comparison.

Overall, not super incredible, but now actually on par in terms of usability with other Usmashes. I'll give it a 3/5.

Fun fact, after some brief testing it KOs at roughly the same percent as Palutena's strong Usmash hit now

 

[Gay Ginger]

- It's very good at catching standard ledge getups since it lasts forever. Now that it kills, it's worth doing that even more

I'd say it's okay at this. Its range still makes it kind of tough to hit with reliably. Fsmash is a lot better for this.

- Decent-ish anti-air since it's disjointed and kills, though it's slow.

I don't agree with this at all. I think it's a terrible anti-air. It's disjointed but the range - both horizontal and vertical - is bad, so unless you've read where they were jumping to and you can use it before they attack, it'll trade with pretty much any move. And because of its weak multi-hits, that's a losing trade every time.

- An alright OOS option, though nowhere near as good as Brawl due to the range reduction

With its new KB upgrade, we can kill more reliably at certain percents than if we were to punish with FW because it can't be DI'd. Of course this only works with a punishable move and if they end up practically right on top of us, but it's useful nonetheless.

I'd give it a 3.5/5. It's very good at a lot of things but it's horizontal range is just like lolwhere

I'd say it went from a 1/5 to a 2/5.

Its range and end lag just make it too situational and risky in most situations to be a good move. Now it at least can be worth the risk sometimes, but I don't think the move will get much better unless they actually give it hitboxes lol.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Do people still fall out of the move the same as before?

 

[BJN39]

Do people still fall out of the move the same as before?

Pretty much. It can happen against anyone, but it's rare outside of specific characters; knowing Zelda though it'll happen at the least opportune moment.

 

[Rickster]

^I laughed at that waaaay too much.

The new Usmash is great. It's like a mini Elevator when you have rage. I wonder how long it will take for everyone to realize it's actually a threatening move now...

 

[Rizen]

I'm glad Usmash got a buff- it needed one. I haven't tried it out and can't comment on it.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I missed posting on Fsmash, so I'm gonna just give it a 3/5 for being ok, but not stellar.

usmash I'm gonna keep it at a 2.5/5 Outside of specific situations its hard to use Usmash because of its no hitbox other than off of a read lol. Even on ledge get up you have to basically be there as they start to climb up it just kills better now than before.

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

Usmash. Yass. The buff, not the move. This Smash attack is pretty... Lacking in range. I haven't tested it that much since the patch (Lucas is making me cry) but I'm sure you can fall out of it just as easily as before, but this isn't so much a problem unless you're fighting Jigglypuff or someone else super light. The fact that it can KO now before 130% (God bless) makes the occasional use worth it. It can of course be punished if it doesn't hit, but there's no point in saying that since almost all of Zelda's moveset is this way. It can be comboed into at low percents sometimes if you really want to use it.

Guarding the ledge with this is so straightforward I shouldn't even say anything. You guys know when to use it, but I feel like it's only really useful when punishing a laggy move or bad air dodge for a KO (if you can even get there in time). Meh.

I'll rate this a 2.5/5 since it can KO things now. If we were talking about prepatch Usmash, I'd give it a 0.5/5. No explanation needed.

 

[Zylach]

I absolutely love the buff usmash just got making it a little more like brawl usmash. It means we can kill off the top with something other than the elevator or uair now meaning Zelda might end up being an upwards killer again like she was in brawl (usmash, utilt, uair) alongside her Lkicks. The biggest problem is still with range though so actually hitting with it is a chore and whiffing with it is a death sentence.

2.5/5 though I need to test it more now that it's changed.

 

[Brinzy]

The only thing that has changed with this ability is that it isn't underpowered any longer. It still has a myriad of problems that haven't changed, from having characters fall out, to having terrible range and virtually no priority, to still being relatively weak for a slow and "strong" character such as Zelda. It's a big step in the right direction, but it's still my least used move and still arguably her worst grounded A move.

EDIT: Okay I may be exaggerating a little.

 

[Zylach]

I used in on FG today. I have the same problem I had with it in brawl in that I find it personally difficult to catch a falling opponent in it because she stays immobile as the opponent comes down with whatever variable fall speed they have (Catching fatties is easier than catching ZSS for instance) so I get punished hard for using it. Furthermore, people seem to understand that shielding all of it is their best chance of survival, something people don't seem to understand with fsmash. I don't know why this dichotomy exists but it does and it bother me because I wanna kill grounded opponents with it but, if they keep shielding it, I will be a sad panda. I got a sweet 80% kill on a Jigglypuff though.

 

[Meru.]

After the patch I'll give it a 2.5 but it may even become a 3 (in my book that's pretty high for Zelda). Of course the range and speed is still as awful as before the patch but it's actually a viable kill move that's worth throwing now. If you look for the right opportunity you can get in more Usmashes than you'd think.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Time for down smash

 

[Rizen]

Dsmash is good because its speed but lacks the range and power to be useful. Except at very high %s or against Little Mac it's not a good kill move. The range is lacking so you must be up against the opponent to land it.
Dsmash is great for GTFO and launching an opponent away, possible offstage for a Dair gimp. Provided you're close the speed will beat most moves and the low end lag is safe.
Dsmash is kind of limited to defensive but it fills that nitch well. 2.5/5

 

[JigglyZelda003]

other than the magical sliding Dsmash, Dsmash is bad. Its really a quick 10%(corrections?) damage that's only good at high percents near the ledge. its a bad get off me move cause it lags just enough for Zelda to be punished (nayrus is better for added invincibility). it can combo after low percent Dtilts but again is a lackluster option. its range is bad but its speed makes it ok sometimes if someone goes deep into your shield, especially near the ledge or you panic it. it can also be a last minute finisher on people refusing to die and a gimp set up for the all of 3 bad recoveries in the game lol 2/5

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

Down Smash, the smash that won't KO anything until ~150%, as opposed to the new Usmash and Fsmash which can KO much earlier. This is Zelda's only smash attack that you can't fall out of, so technically it's her most reliable. It can occasionally hit both in back and in front for extra damage, but it hardly ever happens. This move covers a little bit of distance, and is only really used for punishing rolls.

You can't really edgeguard with this move. The only use I can see in that situation is baiting an air dodge into the ground, and hitting them with this if you don't feel confident with your other attacks (for some odd reason). Perhaps if they've grabbed the ledge twice you could hit them with it while they're still hanging on. The good thing about using this near the ledge just in general is the fact that it sends the opponent at an angle downward... Perhaps at a 345 degree angle? Because of this, opponents occasionally can't recover and you're good to go, but this isn't always the case since recoveries are so good in this game.

I'll rate this move a 2.5/5. In most situations I would use Nayru's over this one, since it can be used in the air, can also punish rolls and even spot dodge because of its lasting hitbox, and at the right percent can sometimes combo into Farore's. It does its basic function as a Dsmash (to hit on both sides) and gives you breathing room whenever you do land it. I don't know how it does on shield since I only use it in situations where I anticipate a roll, but it doesn't have as much endlag as Nayru's (I think), so sometimes it's the better option. Mediocre move, could have less startup or range, but not bad.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Down smash is literally a godsend against Little Mac. It'll gimp him pretty much no matter what and it'll trade with his up b. The only other reason I use dsmash is to punish ledge vulnerability since it sends at such a bad angle that they'll either be gimped or set up for an edgeguard. Though, you can do a lot better things to ledge vulnerability than dsmash such as dair of bair. The only other reason I'd use this move is as a get off of me move, but Nayru's does that infinitely better so...I don't find this move very useful at all. 1.5 imo

 

[JigglyZelda003]

oh one other thing about the ledge and Dsmash is if people hit Phantom with an UpB while trying to reach the ledge like Mario's upB Phantom makes Dsmash guaranteed on like a counter hit since they are still attacking but hitting Phantom so Zelda is free to send them packing lol.

 

[Gay Ginger]

Another thing that makes this move worse is that it has, according to the data in the Fairy Fountain, unnecessary sour spots (really close to Zelda). The KB and damage aren't any different, but it launches them at a drastically different angle (361 degrees instead of 20 degrees from the front; 361 instead of 160 from the back) that isn't useful for KOs or semi-spiking. It's annoying when you're at the ledge and land a d-smash when your opponent is at high percents only to have them knocked at a terrible angle so they survive. So despite not being a multi-hit, it's not 100% reliable -- well, it is with proper spacing, but a GTFO move like this shouldn't need careful spacing to be effective lol.

The only good thing about this move is its speed -- that's it. It's bad at KOing in most situations, it has poor range, bad end lag and is unsafe on whiff and shield, and does okay-ish damage.

Being tied for Zelda's fastest attack give it some points, but the move is bad.

2/5

Congrats Sakurai - you managed to turn two amazing smash attacks in Brawl (Brawl up and down smashes) into shi*** ones, on an already bad character.

 

[Rion]

I miss being able to spanish dance kick bob-ombs.

I always wondered why they took that away? So many characters have invul on their upsmashes and what not.

And Nayru's Love doesn't count, because it's got no killing power!

 

[ZombieBran]

I don't know what this move does that a different move can't do better, besides gimp the very rare awful recovery and KO should our plethora of kills all somehow fail.

It's still not useless just because it's such a fast attack that can eventually kill.
2/5 I guess.

Maybe 1.0.9 will see D-Smash kill 20% earlier. I would do things for that, Sakurai, please deliver ;D

 

[Meru.]

I'm shocked to see that I'm probably going to be the most optimistic around here. I feel most people are still comparing her Dsmash to its Brawl incarnation and basing their scores off that.

I think Dsmash is actually pretty decent, mainly because of its speeds (frame 4 or 5?). Its range and power have been nerfed for no good reason, but it still has decent range and power, especially for a fast move. It has some lag on it but for a Dsmash I feel Zelda's one is actually very safe. You can get away it with reasonably often.

Most people seem to think this move is inferior to Dtilt but it definitely has some good qualities over Dtilt. I'm not sure if it has more horizontal range, but I'm pretty sure it does have more vertical range which means it's harder to jump over it. Dsmash may have more lag, meaning it's unsafer on whiff) but it also has a lot more shieldstun. I don't feel Dsmash is much unsafer than Dtilt actually. Dsmash gives the opponent a guaranteed 11/12 (?)% of damage while sending thing them at a very unfavorable angle whereas Dtilt only does 4%. At lower percents Dtilt's reward is dependent on the follow-up but you're not always going to the the follow-up. At high percents Dsmash has better reward than Dtilt without any doubt. Lastly, Dsmash hits behind you which is very useful as gtfo move in a game with very free movement.

I'll give it a 3. Maybe even a 3.5, but I don't want to get carried away.

 

[BJN39]

I'm shocked to see that I'm probably going to be the most optimistic around here. I feel most people are still comparing her Dsmash to its Brawl incarnation and basing their scores off that.

OH. MY. GOSH. THIS SO MUCH. To everything Zelda does.


And yes, Dsmash has the tiniest bit more range than Dtilt in front at least, I have never tested the back, but since it has less range than the front iirc, than the back is probably shorter ranged than Dtilt. Its vertical range is definitelt better than Dtilt, and at the edges of the move, it should hit lower beneath ledges than Dtilt. So if you like, ledge-trump and then space yourself near the edge, you can do a Marth-style ledge hit with sweet-spotted Dsmash (Like his Fsmash trick.) and Dsmash KOs pretty well at ledges.

It was weird that it got and extra startup frame, making it 5. I'm only salty about that though because someone else has a frame 4 Dsmash, which means we no longer have OR EVEN tie for the fastest Dsmash smh. It has one more frame of lag than before, so very negligible amounts. Though, both hits should not be safe on shield, especially the front one, which has like, 34 frames afterwards. While the average move has only 25 ish frames after. SO, super unsafe.

Also, for its speed, it does do good damage with enough range. If anything trading it in for a Dtilt once in a while will at least score you about as much damage as three Dtilts. For the same hit speed. I think the move is at least not truly a bad move, just overlooked for usage in light of similar options on other moves. Except no other move gets gimp angle on-stage? :D I suppose JigglyZelda said it right that there are like 3 recoveries unfit to make it after a Dsmash and only 3, lol.

I'll score it a 3/5 as well.

 

[Zylach]

For some reason, I wasn't getting notifications on this thread as of Thursday so I apologize for the late response. Basically everything about the move has already been covered. Some little things that I can add to the conversation though: dtilt>dsmash is still a thing at low percents though not always the best choice as low percent dtilt hits lead to aerial combos with nair and even Lkicks. I have gotten a rare KO with it on people that recover high since, after using a second jump and getting hit by a dsmash, most characters can't recover. However, that situation is very rare. Endlag makes it unsafe, its range is mediocre, it's overshadowed by Nayru's Love in almost every way. I like its speed. That's about it.

2/5

 

[Rickster]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but if you Dsmash them at the ledge at high % it sets up for a Din's Fire that some characters are forced to get hit by (or airdodge to their death).

Just a little setup for a low risk Din's KO. Just don't accidentally walk off and SD :^)

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but if you Dsmash them at the ledge at high % it sets up for a Din's Fire that some characters are forced to get hit by (or airdodge to their death).

Just a little setup for a low risk Din's KO. Just don't accidentally walk off and SD :^)

stutter step dins to no go gliding off to your doom lol.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Onto nair now. I'll post my thoughts later

 

[evmaxy54]

Nair is p fun yea

I've been thinking lately of chasing people offstage with Nair when they're knocked close to the blastzone as an alternative way to edgeguard, especially on characters with not so great horizontal recovery.

The changes to Nair with the recent patch nerfed our reward from grabs slightly (Dthrow -> Nair doesn't do as much as it did because we always got the opponent at the back) but it slightly buffed our punishment combo game thingy because it added a bit more hitstun with doing 2% at the front & the landing lag is reduced by 3 frames.

Possible falling Nair follow-ups: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...search-repository.370698/page-7#post-19423977

I will need someone to test out which characters FF Nair -> Dtilt, FF Nair -> FW & FF Nair -> Usmash are guaranteed on.

Note: falling Nair is not a viable approach option because of its landing lag. Use it more as a punishment tool more than anything

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but if you Dsmash them at the ledge at high % it sets up for a Din's Fire that some characters are forced to get hit by (or airdodge to their death).

Just a little setup for a low risk Din's KO. Just don't accidentally walk off and SD :^)

Do you mind if you can give us some examples on who this works on please?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i'm going to rate Nair a 3 instead of a 2.5 only because of its new found landing comboability.

Nair actually is ok in an air to air situation. its disjoints actually protect Zelda if her Nair is already out because she will more or less overlap her opponents hurtbox before their hitbox touches her as long as Nair was already in animation before their attack was. it's always a bit risky to do that but you can gain a great momentum shift if it works (you can Nair Peach before she can wack you with the crown) damage is ok, it combos ok, and chase Nair Nair Nair is fun if you've got momentum going. you can catch people airdodging cause Nair goes so long but its a bit hard since the hitbox is only like her hands and if they DI into her body they might get away. Nair is also really nice offstage for pesky characters that like to try an avoid Dair or with somewhat ambigous recovery ability. because Nair last long enough you can basically start it early and Yolo into them, at worst the air dodge but its risky for some characters so they might just take the hit anyhow.

landing lag reduced by 3f? it still has some of the worst landing lag in the world. Sakurai could have at least let us keep our (if you land on X frame you autocancel which was like rotation 2-3 in brawl) but no. meaning things like RAR Nair are bad and Nair at nothing to try and bait is bad cause landing just a hair too early gives so much landing lag. then despite i said you can intercept people with Nair the risk/reward tends to always be risk+5/reward-2 which makes it almost a player by player case even against Wii Fit and her no hitboxes.

3/5 i want to do Dair next lol

 

[Zylach]

I've been using nair more after the patch than I ever had pre-patch. The fact that it autocancels means it is actually one of Zelda's few safe options, the multihit aspect means airdodging it isn't as viable as airdodging literally any of our other aerials, it's got a slight disjoint meaning well-spaced nairs can beat out some other characters' aerials. It's new combo potential make it a kill setup, easy way to rack up damage (nair>jab>dash attack or nair>dtilt>nair>Lkicks), it can string into itself. I've gotten strings of 5 nairs on people that try to answer with their own aerial that is just slow enough that I catch them anyway. I've strung nairs together on people dragging them all the way offstage to the blastzones. Just earlier today, I got my first black/red lightning with nair because I carried a Link from the edge of FD all the way to the blastzone and got back myself. Furthermore, it might actually work better than dair for offstage kills since it's a multihit making it more difficult to avoid by airdodging, it carries the opponent down, and we can recover from FF nair offstage where a lot of characters can't. I've been gimping every character offstage with this since the patch (Not that the patch made this a thing, it just encouraged me to use nair more) save for characters like ZSS and Sheik who have amazing recoveries. This move should honestly be B&B for Zelda now. It's possibly her best move.

4/5 A little less landing lag and a larger disjoint would make it perfect.

 

[Rickster]

Do you mind if you can give us some examples on who this works on please?

Mostly characters that have a subpar and/or linear horizontal recovery. Link and Ganondorf come to mind...possibly Roy? It works best on any character that needs to immediately burn their jump out of hitstun (well unless they have an amazing UpBUpB like Zelda).

But if they're left in a position like that you may as well drop off and Nair/Dair them instead. This is more of an extremely low risk edgeguarding option IMO.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Alright, nair, easily Zelda's best aerial and possibly one of her best moves overall. Nair functions as a:
- Combo starter
- EXTREMELY RISKY landing option (aka you should never do this unless you see an opening) with high reward if you hit with the front
- Kill setup
- Edgeguarding/gimping tool

Something I don't see a lot of people use nair for is as a combo starter out of a short hop on taller characters. At 0% you can do nair > jab/grab and at low percents you can do nair > utilt/running jump cancelled usmash

Falling nair is now an amazing combo starter. Falling front hits of nair > dtilt > jab > dthrow > nair, falling nair > dtilt > utilt, etc. It's also an amazing kill setup. Falling front hits of nair > elevator/usmash (true combo), dtilt > falling nair > elevator/usmash (setup), dthrow > falling nair > elevator/usmash (setup), and on middle weight characters and heavier, first hit of nair (front or back) > usmash, and on extremely heavy characters, first hit of nair (front or back) > elevator.

It's also super good for edgeguarding. It lasts for a long time so you can just jump off stage, nair, and be like lol bye recovery :^)

I'm gonna give nair a 4/5. It's really useful and its only problem is the landing lag

 

[Gay Ginger]

Alright, nair, easily Zelda's best aerial and possibly one of her best moves overall. Nair functions as a:
- Combo starter
- EXTREMELY RISKY landing option (aka you should never do this unless you see an opening) with high reward if you hit with the front
- Kill setup
- Edgeguarding/gimping tool

Something I don't see a lot of people use nair for is as a combo starter out of a short hop on taller characters. At 0% you can do nair > jab/grab and at low percents you can do nair > utilt/running jump cancelled usmash

Falling nair is now an amazing combo starter. Falling front hits of nair > dtilt > jab > dthrow > nair, falling nair > dtilt > utilt, etc. It's also an amazing kill setup. Falling front hits of nair > elevator/usmash (true combo), dtilt > falling nair > elevator/usmash (setup), dthrow > falling nair > elevator/usmash (setup), and on middle weight characters and heavier, first hit of nair (front or back) > usmash, and on extremely heavy characters, first hit of nair (front or back) > elevator.

It's also super good for edgeguarding. It lasts for a long time so you can just jump off stage, nair, and be like lol bye recovery :^)

I'm gonna give nair a 4/5. It's really useful and its only problem is the landing lag

I agree with everything but "its only problem is the landing lag."

Its range is a big problem for me. It will trade with most aerials, and because each hit only does 2/1%, it's bad at air to air combat.

I'd give it a 3.5/5.

 

[Toadallstar2]

I love me some nair, henny. Probably my most used move with any combo when I'm not looking to Ko. I love short hopping and using it, then a full jump and using it. It's good if your opponent expects you to rely on smashes and then you pull this out. I missed its reliability in the back as well but the powerful front makes up for it as that's the most common usage, typically. One of her best moves imo. The sparkles don't hurt.

4/5