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gurl the only problem with this is being at the right range whenever we need to land. Its not like Pally or Mewtwo who have shorter easier to space Teleports for cancels. Have you seen mother Fujins teleport gimmicks with sister Pally?
Rickster
gurl the thing is we actually need a Dins buff to be good so I'd rather Sakuraitena Nerf something like Ftilt since its the one move we can kind if do without in exchange for Dins buffs #godsavedins
I don't hate Ftilt, i dislike the deadzone but i mean its been there for years lol. but with the fixed Fsmash and Utilt and Jab, Ftilt has the least amount of use personally so if we had to pick a move to nerf in exchange for Dins buff i would give up Ftilt very easily
The lingering flame they added in PM was really cool and combod into stuff, kinda like when ZeroSkill down smashes and waits for the knockback to followup with a fair.Reasonable Din's Fire buffs that would make it more useful:
~Leaving out No Free Fall because that's extremely unrealistic given that Sakurai is Sakurai~
- Make it move quicker
- Give it somewhat better range and/or control
- Put a traveling hitbox on it so we have a semi-conventional projectile that won't pass through opponents and do absolutely nothing. It's a traveling ball of fire. I can't imagine how many times that would've been useful or helped in some way.
- Less end/startup lag
I think our most likely (realistic) buff, if we get one, would be less end lag, considering Sak is obsessed with giving the Phantom less end lag (yet no health buffs, but praise the 0% hitbox), so why not this one? Anything to make that move more useful would be such a blessing. She needs it almost as much as Samus needs buffs in general... Maybe more.
I also noticed there seems to be certain situations where a dins fire on the ground forces a shield or will hit, even if the opponent is a few inches in front of you. Especially effective if they're coming in from the air, but I haven't gotten consistent results. Seems like a really hard window to hit.
Oh, I've mentioned how PM Zelda has an amazing Din's compared to what we have, and much better kicks earlier in this thread. The other night I did an accidental Dsmash first hit > Knocked into planted Din's near ground and bounces back > Dsmash second hit combo for a lot of damage. Zelda really needs a Din's buff before I can say that she's a solid character (despite still having her bad design). She can still be tall, floaty, and light and be viable, just look at Rosie. The difference is: Rosie can do so much more because her moveset isn't super flawed and gives her great tools, while Zelda can't make up for being tall floaty and light because what she has currently isn't working too well to balance out her weaknesses. She has power, but at the cost of relying on moves with sweet spots and a ton of lag, has a very slow dash, is very read dependent, and lacks a proper projectile. If she had less lag and a proper projectile, without buffs to the other areas (making her "balanced"), she'd be in much better shape. I'd be fine with her at that point, but until then, I'll keep praying that we continue to get buffs every patch (except that random Din's nerf for no reason in 1.0.6).The lingering flame they added in PM was really cool and combod into stuff, kinda like when ZeroSkill down smashes and waits for the knockback to followup with a fair.
Removing lag overall would just be a godsend. If lightning kicks were safe on shield because of less lag and or had decent knockback to give us a second to recover.
Just imagine a world where we have approach options.
Tbh, Din's isn't as useless as we think it is, but it is a terrible move that does need to be reworked if it wants to be useful in 1v1s. It's not a balanced move at all when you think about it that way. You should be able to use every move effectively regardless of 1v1, 2v2, or FFA, and if it is only useful in one area, then it needs to be changed in some way. Every character has very situational moves, but usually they're situational in any context, not just for certain modes of playing. Din's really isn't that useful in FFA's anymore because they butchered its control and distance. It's also just too slow of a move in general. It's good as a long distance mixup along with with a B-Reversed Phantom to cover landings. I only really use it on stages with platforms when my opponent goes to land on a platform and I predict that. Landing the move at all requires predictions: Aiming it up because the enemy is going to "jump around it", aiming it down towards the ground to catch a landing, jumping into the explosion to cover an approaching enemy that isn't being safe, etc. It even has a problem killing when you do land it, unless at higher percentages than we can normally KO around. The issue is that you don't get enough reward for taking the chance to even use the move, as you're putting yourself out in the open to be attacked for a long amount of time. I'll be honest, you can actually land the move against skilled players sometimes, but only after you condition them to behave a certain way, and it probably won't work all that often. It's a barely rewarding mind game tool that isn't very useful when playing the game in any mode unless at very low skill levels. It's a truly awful "projectile" that doesn't require a degree in rocket science to be able to tell it sucks
yeah, it's not terrible, it's just terrible at whats it's INTENDED to do
but Sakuraitena Nerfed Phantom and then buffed it, miracles do happen sometimes
Oh, that's just a B-Reverse. Almost every special move can do that (including our own Nayru's and Din's).
Ok so I just remembered this post. I just tested it and...it actually really works! Thanks for pointing this out.
hmmm my SD game is always on point
B reverse would be useful when recovering if Zelda had more airspeed
Its hard to say. When the one thread about phantom popped up prior to patch 1.0.8 talking about B reverse and wavebounced phantom I saw the potential for spacing but phantom still whiffed then. Now with the 0% hitbox it can actually be a thing.
). She can true combo into it too, so it's not a move only for hard reads and punishes. Then there's our Hoo Hah which can start KOing at about...105%. Baiting an airdodge after Dthrow can also set up a Bair Lighting Kick, which can KO anywhere from 60-100 depending on stage position. Usmash is another powerful KO option, killing Mario on FD at 105% (no rage).
The problem is, it can be hard to get in with her. She doesn't have very many safe approaches and can be camped out quite easily. Elevator is very good but very easy to punish too. It is a true combo yes, but is still quite risky. Her aerial mobility after it pretty much gives the opponent a free charged smash. Zelda has great killing power. No one will argue with you there, but she has next to no kill setups.Her kills require hard reads and baits.Well, a lot of Zeldas here play her in different ways, so you might get various answers for this one. But here goes~
For me, you need to get in as her. That means landing one of our combo starters, those being Jab, Utilt, Dtilt, SH Nair, Landing Nair, or a grab into an Uthrow or Dthrow. Deslite what some may tell you, her combo game is actually pretty dang good. After that, try and extend your string as long as possible to get damage. It's important to keep on some pressure so the game doesn't go back to neutral, since Zelda's neutral is weak. It consists mostly of Jabs, Utilts, Dtilts, mid charge retreating Phantoms, spaced Fsmashes, and the occasional Din's Fire or Nayru's Love. You can also throw in some Nairs and LKs, but those are riskier options.
If you get them offstage, be aggressive. Zelda's offstage game is actually quite good with her Dair, Nair, Phantom, and amazing recovery. One Dair- even a sourspotted one -can end some characters (even more if you footstool right after). Dsmash is especially good as setting up edgeguards due to its angle.
For KOing, you want to try and KO them as early as possible. Killing power is one of Zeldas greatest strengths. She can Elevator at about 60-70%, and with rage, it can get into the 30s because Zelda is OP and needs to be banned (
Overall she wants to combo her opponents, harass them offstage, KO them early, and keep an early lead. Falling behind as Zelda is the one thing you absolutely do not want to happen.
Also just a personal opinion on Zelda here: She is much better than a lot of players give her credit for. She is still very flawed, but the amount of misconceptions about her is ridiculous. I feel like Zelda mains are the only people who actually understand how to play her, and even then some of them still don't make sense (coughGameFAQscough).
Sorry this got so long! But I hope this answers you question at least a little bit.
Aunt Jemima
OUTt
Firstly, I am not trying to be overly negative, nor am I trying to be high and mighty. I am simply being realistic. I used to main Zelda but switched to Greninja. I consider Zelda to be a secondary of mine. I'm not just mindlessly bashing Zelda. Her mobility is awful, her neutral is weak and while she does have combo starters, landing them is the problem. Obviously there are many ways to be good with Zelda, but you have to be much better than your opponent to succeed. Her gameplay relies heavily on reads and greatly outplaying the opponent.gorl
did you even read the post???
he states several times that Zelda has clear flaws, you literally just repeated what he said but tried to act like you're all high and mighTy correcting everything when you're just bein stoopider than dickbutt twinklepants
the post says it's hard to get in but gives you options on how to get in despite flaws, rather than being negative af like you god dayUm
no kill setups but the post lists kill setups??? like i play pinky winky and he cant kill for **** without some dumb broken @ss custom unless he wants to fish with those dum tumor hands nd you got these fkin sparkles into explosions, why you complainin'?????
ofc everybody wanna read those airdodges what else we gonna do??? mister tumor hands reads airdodges with a laggy *** 9% uair he cant even follow up on because those **** fRaMeS but sassy gorl princess over here kickin them faces back to that zelda rap commercial DAM
zelda got all these dum af misconceptions because people always state her weaknesses rather than any advantages she obv sucks **** but when you like "lol zleda sux hehe mmmmmmm" nd you dont list any of that gud **** u bein some gr0ss stanky sheik
like holee **** rickster over here tryna fight them flaws and u just like "no u jus giv up u kno this character sux CRICRICRICRICRICRICRICRICRICRICRI PLS GIV BUFFS!!!!!!!!" mm u like that dum ***** fight song talks about mmhmmmmmmmmm yeah rickster makin them charts and u just bein a **** that aint coo ykno
ye #rsrvdloyf #ilushaq
And you should drop Paluterrible lbr
