General
-You can drift after a ledge trump.
-Shield pushback much lower.
-Shield is much worse, much less safe to enter, so more of the game is whiff punishing with movement.
-Grabs slower/laggier worse across the board.
-DI stronger? Hard to be sure.
-I don’t think you get your jump back after a 2 frame.
Fox
JAB - Buffed!
-Now tumbles at 0%, meaning you can set up advantage a bit better. Not enough frame advantage to truly tech chase, but they can be forced to hit a button.
-Can be held for longer without dropping, so you can do around 12% rather than 10%.
-Will fail to connect properly if max range.
-Most chars can roll through it Rapid Jab now, so holding it vs shield is quite unsafe. Rapid Jab Ender is quite unsafe.
-Can’t cancel Jab1 or Jab2 into anything easily, will pretty much always go into the next Jab on hit. Curiously enough (might be placebo), this doesn’t seem to occur on shield, and you can go for Jab12 Grab or Jab12 Jab1 etc.
This is a really important move for Fox in this game. Run up Jab1 is really good as an occasional dissuader, though it’s not a cornerstone of neutral so far (see below). Nair is probably Fox’s best move now though, and it combos into Jabs which sets up frame advantage - the Jab tumbling at 0% is vital.
FTILT
-Pivot FTilt traction massively reduced, didn’t land a single reverse hit but I didn’t try too hard/the lower slide made it harder
I barely used this move as I was mostly just doing run up reverse Up Tilt in its place. Pivot FTilt slide is much, much lower, though.
DTILT - Buffed!
-Sends more vertically now; DI out can kill combos, but it can start vortexes otherwise.
https://gfycat.com/AnchoredCreamyCrab
DTilt is pretty useful in this game - there are some cases where you can’t do reverse UTilt due to lower range, so run up DTilt is stronger. DTilt also has lower lag than UTilt (I think) which can make it safer to throw out for that reason. Still not great in neutral as it can be jumped over/whiff punished with grounded movement for free.
UTILT - Changed
-Smaller hitbox:
https://puu.sh/B6o6C/5d3d70be83.png
-Less knockback grounded, so UTilt spam is stronger. Is more similar to the aerial Up Tilt KB, so there’s less of a disparity between the two.
-7% now from 9% (may be what causes the KB change)
-Sets up into stuff for a bigger % range.
-Doesn’t combo into Up Air a lot of the time, but it can combo into Nair which can then go back into UTilt. Can also combo Fair. Up Air causes the vortex at some %s too ofc.
-UTilt turnarounds are really important in this game for maximising damage.
-Not enough hitstun to transfer UTilt spam into FTilt, just keep using UTilt until tumble.
-Can do UTilt run UTilt on DI away.
-Slightly more lag.
Overall an amazing move made more amazing by run tilts. Can be used to call out jumps in neutral very sparingly, but in advantage state it makes trapping landings really crazy. Dash Attack got nerfs (see below), so you generally want to UTilt more when you can. The lower knockback is largely a buff in this engine because hitstun isn’t high enough for UTilt Uair to ever really kill unless it’s the aerial UTilt.
DASH ATTACK - Nerfed
-I don’t really have specifics here, but I’m pretty sure Dash Attack has more lag.
-Additionally, it’s much harder to cross up on shield, so it’s a very unsafe move to throw out now.
It’s better at low %s as it can often true into Up Tilt which then goes into itself a lot, but I found it didn’t vortex well at all at mid percentages. The frame advantage is quite low, which makes it hard to really get past people just hitting any button (Marth was Fairing me before I could get even Nair out). That said, it still sets up nice vortexes at higher %, and you can then chase after their airdodges with run Up Tilt.
FSMASH - Buffed!
-MUCH stronger.
-No idea if it hits ledge or not. - Apparently it does!
-I feel a tiny bit more lag on it but it being that much stronger makes up for it imo.
Not much to say, USmash is still a better go-to, but I also wasn’t used to the idea of having FSmash out of a run.
DSMASH - Buffed?
-I think it’s stronger.
-Magnet hands are much worse, making DSmash better by default (I don’t think I missed a single DSmash vs Bowser’s Up B for example).
Good edgeguarding tool, better cuz of worse magnet hands. I killed with this move surprisingly early a decent amount of times, but it’s still not a go-to kind of move.
USMASH - Buffed!
-Bigger range horizontally and vertically (can sweetspot hit on BF platform now).
https://gfycat.com/EnlightenedDeadlyGharial
-The removal of JC USmash slide makes it harder to confirm into, but the bigger range helps/
-Can USmash oos without JC, so you skip jumpsquat frames for better punishes.
-I think it's better to use USmash in some combos now - lower hitstun can make it harder to connect other things, and USmash's bigger range makes it connect easier.
https://gfycat.com/AgitatedAstonishingIndri
Generally in Ultimate, moves are safe if the punish would require dropping shield, but poorly spaced moves on the front of a shield can get shield grabbed for free due to low shieldstun. As such, USmash is really good for this too, being only 2 frames slower than shield grab with more range, so I got a lot of kills with USmash oos.
NAIR - Holy **** this move
-Lower landing lag 11 -> 7
-I’m not sure exactly what causes it, but I was able to get sweetspot Nair to go into Jab at low % even if the Nair was rising (probably higher BKB).
-Connects into USmash much better (often doesn’t force tech chases).
-Kills a bit earlier.
-Can go into run UTilt/DTilt.
It honestly didn’t receive many changes, but this is an already really good move just pushed over the edge by the engine. The kind of way neutral is played, dash dancing and using this sparingly is really powerful. Can be done rising as a way to dissuade dash-ins and still be pretty safe. Combos absolutely for free now, even late Nair can combo to Jab better (though still won’t at extremely early %). Very important tool as Dash Attack often goes into nothing/isn’t safe to throw out whereas Nair now goes into Jab which sets up some kind of advantage state to get things started.
FAIR - Changed
-Landing lag lowered 27 -> 18
-Damage increased from 7 -> 11 (will be higher in full game).
-Fox goes higher and hovers more from Fair.
-Hovers so high that he can do ledgehop Fair and still AC it onto platforms (may even have time to throw out Nair before landing but I didn’t test extensively)
-As a result, he can’t fast fall to drag down at all if the move is done while rising.
-Can still Fair Spike, but you can’t footstool people in hitstun, so you can’t Fair Footstool people.
-Apparently has a landing hitbox now, but I couldn’t get it much on account of not being able to fast fall. I think it’s pretty similar to how landing Fair worked in Smash 4 though.
I think this is largely a buff to this edition of Fox - his recovery is weaker in this game, so having the ability to rise as far as this sends you is pretty important for avoiding things that force airdodges (Bayo bullets, Din’s Fire etc.). Ledgehop Fair is really insane, it sets up the vortex and, on Battlefield, it can AC then combo into Uair Uair. It’s also just really safe as it sends you so high that it’s hard to cover even when shielded. However, if you do SH Fair, you can’t drag people down. There’s probably a timing to be able to do so, but I didn’t test extensively. This means that you can’t do AC Dair Fair Spike lock/tech chase stuff. Drag down Fair tech chase is really good when you can get it, though. Fair Spike can also gimp people who have no jump pretty well (good for challenging recoveries with no invincibility etc.)
BAIR - Buffed!
-Landing lag lowered from 15 to 9 (???)
-Increased hitbox size for some reason
Yeah no idea why they buffed that. It hits slightly higher vertically now so you can often SH it where you’d normally have to FH - this is good because SHFF Bair gets vortexes started. Overall incredibly strong tool for Fox, dash dance back into AC Bair/landing Bair is really safe, and the generally more aggressive game makes it one of the better buttons Fox has to throw out.
DAIR - Nerfed
-Landing lag decreased from 25 -> 17.
-No longer frame cancels to reduce landing lag on hitting shield/character.
-Smaller hitboxes throughout and on last hit.
Dair felt a decent amount weaker. The lower landing lag is welcome, but it’s comparatively quite high for this game, and still too high to afford to whiff in neutral. The fact it doesn’t frame cancel also makes it higher than Dair hitting a character in Smash 4. Of course, I may be wrong about that, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t frame cancel. The smaller hitboxes make the move much more likely to whiff during it - I had people fall out of Dair more in Ultimate than my whole Smash 4 career combined. Rising FF Dair pretty much never fully connects, though it seems safe on crossup unless they have some oos option to punish it due to increased shield drop frames. The final massive hit also got outranged a decent amount, though it’s still a good hitbox. AC Dair still combos into Uair, but can’t go into footstool and Fair can’t drag down. You’re best off doing AC Dair Nair Jab into pressure if they DI away, otherwise you can do Uair into the vortex. Pour one out for the hundreds of hours I’ve spent on this ****ty move’s dead footstool followups ;_;
UAIR - Identical
-Landing lag decreased from 22 -> 14
I noticed literally no functional changes with this move. Still autocancels, still combos into itself, still does 16%, still kills. The lower landing lag makes landing Uair more practical for landing punishes, but run UTilt generally does that job anyway/I never did it cuz Smash 4 habits. Uair still amazing as usual, basically.
NEUTRAL B - Buffed, but useless
-Lag decreased
I kept trying to do PP lasers on autopilot so I barely did any. The move is overall worse than Smash 4 though - the game is so fast that you barely have time to use them and they’re not worth when you do.
SIDE B - Slaughtered
-Oh my days where to start
-Good news: you can drift directly after aerial Illusion ends, so you can mixup your angle afterwards.
-Illusion startup nerfed by 5 frames (making it solidly reactable).
-It’s easier to hit Fox out of Illusion when he’s trying to snap to ledge (smaller magnet hands). I also never got my jump back like when you get two framed, but it feels more like you just don’t get your jump back after a two frame.
-stops on shield.
-Travel time is slower (easier to intercept).
-s t o p s o n s h i e l d
-Higher lag + lower hitstun so you can’t combo into Uair.
-it stops. when it hits shield.
-Damage increased when grounded from 3 -> 9 I guess
Illusion is basically just garbage now. Nobody was used to dealing with it properly, but it’s basically unviable off the ledge (loses to shield and they can just press shield on reaction, but also higher lag makes it easier to whiff punish). Illusion onstage is unviable for similar reasons, but it’s also just so slow that there’s no real reason to ever do it. It’s easier to intercept it while recovering, and its slower startup means that more characters have time to just bully Fox without him able to get back to ledge. Still a good recovery option, though.
UP B - Buffed!
-MUCH higher BKB on all of it. We’re talking like it nearly stage spiked to the blastzone at 15% kind of strong.
-Bigger hitbox during the whole move, making it much harder to intercept.
-Due to directional airdodges, trapping an airdodge with Up B for a kill is basically impossible.
-Has massive magnet hands at the end, which is much better than other characters for the most part.
Up B is a really solid recovery option now as beating it out is genuinely quite a risk for the opponent - nearly everyone got stage spiked while attempting to. The magnet hands thing is really important, other characters don’t have that luxury which is another thing that makes it stand out as hard to edgeguard. I didn’t test boomerang or RCO or any of that stuff I’m afraid, it all just slipped my mind.
DOWN B - Changed
-Startup decreased 6 -> 3
-Shine stall only works on the first Shine now
Overall nerfed because hitting people with Shine is still garbage. Terrible move is still terrible, basically.
STANDING GRAB - Nerfed
-FAF increased 29 -> 36 (not 100%)
This grab is still pretty good in the grand scheme of things (all Grabs got nerfed). Range seems about the same, but it was never great anyway. The game is whiff punish heavy, so it’s not great to throw grabs out/approach with grabs imo.
DASH GRAB - Never use this.
-FAF increased 36 -> 45.
Fox gets nothing off throws now (more below) and Dash Grab was always suspect as hell with its super long startup. Now it’s the same but laggier, in a game where RPS stuff at unreactable zones is much less important. Cleanly the worst move on Fox’s kit now, basically useless, go for run standing grab every time.
PIVOT GRAB - idfk
-I think boost pivot grab is gone.
You can’t run through people in Ultimate, so I don’t think I landed a single pivot grab. I imagine it’s probably not a great option for us as there aren’t many situations where we’d want to fade back and get a grab, or use it cover landing with our other tools, but idk.
PUMMEL - Identical
Animation is slower but I could get the same amount of pummels per grab anyway.
DTHROW - Identical, meaning nerfed
Is basically totally unchanged, but lower hitstun means there’s zero followups (I tried DThrow run Jab and other options but nothing worked). You can sometimes get DA to trade or get Bair/Fair to trade if you’re very lucky, but nothing’s true. DI in still gets Uair though.
FTHROW - Identical, meaning buffed
Fox gets a lot started off tech chases in this game - while FThrow doesn’t cause a true tech chase a lot of the time, you can still cover everything except tech in place by running at the opponent and reacting with UTilt at the right time (and then tech in place can be pressured accordingly). FThrow is probably the main throw now.
UTHROW - Identical, meaning nerfed
Lower hitstun lowers the frame advantage on this throw even further, making it very difficult to properly track landings. Still probably better than DThrow.
BTHROW - Nerfed. Yes, nerfed.
-Sends higher and not as far.
If you use this at the edge of a stage, they can damn near just drift back onto the stage it sends them that close. This move is really bad.
OVERALL
The overall movement engine benefits Fox an absolute ton. I played him for I’d say about 9-10 hours in total across two days in 1v1s with no items, and I found that he had to be treated differently to Smash 4 Fox. Smash 4 Fox plays a lot of RPS at burst range, but that’s much less important in this game as foxtrot backwards is such a strong, readily accessible, commitment-free option. Dash Attack is weaker here by default, and our Dash Grab is very bad plus we’ve lost the option of run past Pivot Grab. Instead, I replaced my neutral where I could with dash dancing at the tip of burst range, Nair, Bair and UTilt/Jab. The last two are used very sparingly - the game is whiff punish-based, so it’s not actually super safe to throw them out, but instead they should be used as a way to remind your opponent they’re options to respect. Dash dancing with Nair/Bair is stupidly safe and can be really hard for an opponent to break down. You can also mix in empty hops of course. Neutral with Fox was a blast, though in these very early days it’s hard to know exactly what’s the right or wrong way to play neutral in this game - I’m just saying what I found more success with. Fox mostly feels strong to me because his vortex is so unbelievably dumb. You can basically react to all defensive options besides Attack with options to reset the vortex, and it’s extremely difficult for the opponent to escape. Airdodges have such high lag as well that you can chase an opponent up then still have time to fall and punish due to Fox’s high fall speed - for example, I could do Uair to force an airdodge then still have time to react to their direction/drift with a Nair to USmash for a KO. You can probably cover them buffering Attack really well too, just I wasn’t used to the lower hitstun and kept getting hit by accident. Overall, the group I was with and I all thought Fox was one of the stronger characters in the demo, and has a ton of potential moving forward. I really enjoyed him as well, it felt I could be very expressive with the movement and just keep doing actions, but it was all very freeform and flowed well. Very happy overall!
Lots of footage here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlMmNP-2BD58yekHf0vruqQJoYbkbUpzJ&disable_polymer=true
Will do a video with more thoughts later
