Will Fox shine again? - Fox Smash Switch speculation thread

[LazyE]

dash cancel reverse up tilt seems like it could be a good combo extender after nair or something but i've never seen anyone try it out. Maybe it's just because people aren't used to utilizing that as an option yet, but it could also just be that it doesn't work/ other options are better?

 

[Skarfelt]

Yeah, I think the same. I'm picturing like Nair DTilt Nair run then reverse UTilt or DTilt, whichever. I'd be surprised if you couldn't get it. DTilt stuff in general needs explored, but it should go into Nair at good %s for run UTilt stuff, so if we can get access to early vortexes than that'd be great

 

[PlushyFenn]

Sorry to be that guy, but what's a vortex? Tried looking it up but all I got was a smash competitor and a mii gunner move (absorbing vortex).

 

[Skarfelt]

Oh sorry, Smash terminology is really bad so don't worry about it. Vortex basically refers to when you get caught in a series of frame traps. For example, Fox Up Tilts you, does Up Air, and you have to airdodge. Fox autocancels the Up Air, and is then able to land and Up Tilt again before you can act, repeating the situation.

---

Some random observations from footage and stuff (the person who linked me this asked not to share, sorry):
-Fox's Jab tumbles at 0%, but there seems to be a sourspot at the end which ... doesn't? I just saw footage of unstaled Jab not tumbling Roy at 25%, but it tumbles him at 0% in the next game. It looked like the tipper of jab ender though, so that might be it. Jab at 0% tumbling is crazy good, though.
-Dair's multihits pop grounded opponents up. It actually has enough frame advantage to combo into Up Smash and Up Tilt which is pretty funny, but the move overall seems worse.

Random thoughts on viability etc.
-DTilt seems ridiculous at low-mid% and needs labbed
-SH Fair as an combo extender actually seems okay now, even if you can't FF dragdown, the landing lag is low enough to set up vortexes or whatever
-Nair is broken

 

[arzo.cl]

https://twitter.com/PW_Yuheht/status/1069723161439154176?s=19
<3
https://twitter.com/PW_Yuheht/status/1069878195116236800?s=19

 

[Skarfelt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_f7hbJP6FA&feature=youtu.be

Some preliminary labbing stuff!

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

So late hit of Dash Attack (4.8% hitbox) is a combo machine. 0-80% it leads to grabs, up-tilt, aerials. At around 90% it combos into dash up-smash for the kill. After the window for up-smash it still leads to up-air for the kill.

Kinda niche, not sure how di effects it, but still cool

 

[DT Raw]

So late hit of Dash Attack (4.8% hitbox) is a combo machine. 0-80% it leads to grabs, up-tilt, aerials. At around 90% it combos into dash up-smash for the kill. After the window for up-smash it still leads to up-air for the kill.

Kinda niche, not sure how di effects it, but still cool

how tested is this?

 

[Skarfelt]

Updated the thread for Fox changes with damage, frame data and shield stun values https://smashboards.com/threads/list-of-foxs-changes.465068/

 

[DT Raw]

thanks skarfelt you are a hero

 

[Skarfelt]

No problem <3

What kinda things are people doing off Dash Attack at 0? DA UTilt is true, but then they can airdodge/mash/whatever. I'm considering just tapping shield - attempted parry would beat mashing, and we could still react to airdodge. I'm just wondering if they'd be able to empty land grab to punish that or not. What are you guys doing? It might be better to just avoid DA at 0 but idk

 

[DT Raw]

I keep up tilting until they jump or air dodge out then try to react/trap landing but maybe I should shield after first up tilt for the occasional A masher as a safer option

 

[G-Sword]

I don’t utilt after da anymore because I always get punished if person is at 0%. I been trying to test out using shine or maybe smash after see how that works

 

[Slip33]

I wondered how Fox ended up being "Lucky Number 7".

 

[Rhus]

I wondered how Fox ended up being "Lucky Number 7".

Because after decades of new characters, Fox is still the coolest cat (dog) around.

 

[G-Sword]

In smash 4 being in the air doing illusion you had less lag when u land. is it the same now or does it not matter now ground and air illusion has the same landing lag?

 

[Rhus]

In smash 4 being in the air doing illusion you had less lag when u land. is it the same now or does it not matter now ground and air illusion has the same landing lag?

The end lag is more or less similar in this game, so you actually have less lag while grounded due to that as you take the full end lag while landing as far as I can tell.

That being said the knockback angle is entirely different for each version. The aerial illusion hits horizontally and combos differently than the grounded version, which hits straight up. Aerial does less damage as well, but more easily kill confirms into Uair Sm4sh-style.

I think Illusion needs a lot of research - I think it's actually a very good tool in this game but we have to figure out how. I do enjoy using the grounded version on targets who have missed their techs.

 

[Skarfelt]

I made a video with Fox's Bread and Butters here, hope people find it useful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLbQpJiufLs

-----

I agree that Illusion needs research, but idk how much mileage we can really get out of it. Grounded Illusion is a tiny bit laggier than jump -> instant Illusion, but that's if you don't count the jumpsquat. The knockback angle is much better, though, and its startup is faster if you count jumpsquat, so I prefer it in general. I'm just not really sure what we can get out of it besides Up Air and Back Air.

 

[arzo.cl]

Remember when we thought that Fox could be bad?

 

[DavemanCozy]

Remember when we thought that Fox could be bad?

Not really lol

Fox is unchanged in version 2.0 according to Nintendo's patch notes and the patch note fiends in Smashboards. I'd recommend reading up on the other characters just to keep up with the new buffs they got.

There is however a small mechanic change with the game overall; we can now press two jump buttons to do empty shorthops. This might make the execution for short hop delayed aerials a lot easier.

Important for Fox of course because sweetspot N-air and delayed B-air are some of his true combo starters close to the ground when the opponent is at low percents.

I find it useful myself, I use both jump buttons as my L and ZL buttons (I also use Pro) so pressing both at the same time is easy.

 

[Pillowbro]

?

Actually this character has pretty good results in recent ultimate tournaments

 

[Anomika]

So... 3.1.0 is coming in less than three days. Fingers crossed he'll stay unchanged, or better, get his dair improved.

 

[Anomika]

Fox got a small buff: improved consistency with connecting from jab 2 to rapid jab. We survived yet another patch!