Enshoku
Smash Lord
most people read the title, first post, and last 5 or so responses...
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will final smashes see tournament play?
- Thread starter rushehidaka
- Start date
Dream Chaser
Smash Journeyman
I just read the entire thread.
I dont want to see things banned without being properly tested in tournament situations.
Initially I thought that the final smashes were like a gimmick that takes away from the quality of the game (like mario power tennis). But characters may be balanced with final smashes in mind and hence those that may be weaker and have a powerful FS would be resricted in their ability to fight. The game hasnt even beeen released America (let alone Australia or Europe). More time should be taken into consideration of these matters.
I dont want to see things banned without being properly tested in tournament situations.
Initially I thought that the final smashes were like a gimmick that takes away from the quality of the game (like mario power tennis). But characters may be balanced with final smashes in mind and hence those that may be weaker and have a powerful FS would be resricted in their ability to fight. The game hasnt even beeen released America (let alone Australia or Europe). More time should be taken into consideration of these matters.
Fake Mofo
Smash Journeyman
i think that it should be considered an item and that if you put items into competitive play then you take out a little bit of the skill factor and add just a little bit of luck. And we all know that tournys are not about who got lucky and won the tourny, they are about who has the most experience/technical skills. if we start adding luck into the mix we will not be able to tell accurately who is better then who. i just think that all tournys should be based on skill not luck.
Enshoku
Smash Lord
I personally think that most tournaments will have them off, but a few will still have them on ^^
Knight-errant
Smash Apprentice
Saying that all you have to do is pick up and item and press a button and you have an "instant KO" is a bit of stretch. If you're playing a one on one match I don't think the one guy will be stupid enough to stand there and let you hit him; you're going to have to combo him into the FS. And if you miss, then you might just be left open to get smacked.
I'm not an item-lover; I mostly play with them off. And I'm not trying to say that matches should be based on "randomness" either, because I agree with you that they should be based on skill. What I am saying is that it's cool to see opponents have to overcome unforeseen obstacles, whether those obstacles be the movement of the stage, an item, or even an FS. It makes the game deeper. That's the reason I made the movie reference: the most interesting fights you get to see aren't when two guys stand there on a flat, wide, open field with only their fists. The most interesting fights are when there's something different about their environment (jumping off walls, looking out for falling rocks, lava, etc) or something different about one of the fighters (he's holding the only weapon; I have to dodge it, wrestle it from him, or find a way around it, etc).
Now I don't know if Final Smashes will necessarily do those things listed above, but the might. All I'm saying is that they should at least be given a chance before people come blaring through saying, "They is items! They need to be turned off! And they is too powerful!" I don't know whether you've played it or not, but at least have some experience with the FS's before you knock them. I know I'm going to at least try them out.
Dark_Meow1
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2007
- Messages
- 757
Knight Errant:: I haven't played the game yet, nor even seen the smashball work honestly. But you lead an interesting yet bad argument.
The key to this whole discussion is skill levels, not ability to entertain the crowd (if only it were that easy ^.^) I kind of get what you are saying, but it does take more skill to win with a specific moveset and rely on that alone.
The only reason I believe Items of any sort, including the smash ball, would be a great addition to competitive play is due to the balance. In melee you had characters countering others and advantages left and right, which I'm sure will unravel itself sooner or later in Brawl. With items, there isn't too much of an advantage with any specific characters but more your reaction time and your speed/technique. So, the real question boils down to:
Are you willing to sacrifice skill based play in tournaments for a more balanced playing field?
just an opinion.
The key to this whole discussion is skill levels, not ability to entertain the crowd (if only it were that easy ^.^) I kind of get what you are saying, but it does take more skill to win with a specific moveset and rely on that alone.
The only reason I believe Items of any sort, including the smash ball, would be a great addition to competitive play is due to the balance. In melee you had characters countering others and advantages left and right, which I'm sure will unravel itself sooner or later in Brawl. With items, there isn't too much of an advantage with any specific characters but more your reaction time and your speed/technique. So, the real question boils down to:
Are you willing to sacrifice skill based play in tournaments for a more balanced playing field?
just an opinion.
Bailey
Smash Hero
No items. What is so hard to understand? Just no. You can argue but just no.
Brawl is going to have a problem Melee didn't really have. Melee rules which are good for Melee that may not necessarily be good for Brawl could be transferred over before people properly give these ideas a chance because they are so set into the Melee style of play. I think the idea of possibly allowing Smash Balls seems like a good one - we should see how it goes - but I don't think it's going to happen because people running tournaments already are banning it and that's how people are going to stay used to it. The discussion won't be as involved as it was with Melee because we have something to work with, unfortunately.
Skler
Smash Master
I like winning close tournament games because a smash ball spawns next to me and I fsmash it with my double hit fsmash and then **** my opponent with my broken FS.
All skill, *****.
All skill, *****.
classic zero
Smash Cadet
:::The Issue
Compare SB to other fighting type games (no names)
the super and/or hyper attact is block able or doge able ive seen in some of them
even OHKO's can some how not be so but still do dmg the tru issue i'd say is something
clost to home for melee as reguarding high tier chars falco/fox/marth ect. and posting combo vids or matches on line. the constant flux of ppl swiching chars only b-cuz at the time they are the best ::example ppl see that fox pwns every plays wit fox un till falco players step up there game every moves to falco:: thats no the bad thing here b-cuz the only makes every1 find ways to counter there chars weakness BUT! back to SB's what if theres no options open to you aside from get hit or ... dont then all the game becomes is a good 1v1 then turns in to a camping game stock lost repeat :end result who ever can get the most SB's=lame= smash dies
now i can only come up wit 1 solution that would make it possable to include SB's
:::The Solution
as we curently have ways to counter a stage pick and stage selection so should
it be wit SB's the two(or more players) will be faced with a choice
simple all players must come in to agreement to have SB's in there match.
if no agreement can be meet then no Smash Ball*** in a team it would a majority 3/4th vote.
in not saying in any way Smash Balls {should/should not} be in gameplay im trying to find a middle ground rather than say YES! or NO! SB's like the rest of the crowd
***Note
i thought about a coin flip, drawing straws, ... rock paper siccors (since not every1 may have a quater but every1 must have hands (to play the game) plz tell me your thoughts about that.)
Compare SB to other fighting type games (no names)
the super and/or hyper attact is block able or doge able ive seen in some of them
even OHKO's can some how not be so but still do dmg the tru issue i'd say is something
clost to home for melee as reguarding high tier chars falco/fox/marth ect. and posting combo vids or matches on line. the constant flux of ppl swiching chars only b-cuz at the time they are the best ::example ppl see that fox pwns every plays wit fox un till falco players step up there game every moves to falco:: thats no the bad thing here b-cuz the only makes every1 find ways to counter there chars weakness BUT! back to SB's what if theres no options open to you aside from get hit or ... dont then all the game becomes is a good 1v1 then turns in to a camping game stock lost repeat :end result who ever can get the most SB's=lame= smash dies
now i can only come up wit 1 solution that would make it possable to include SB's
:::The Solution
as we curently have ways to counter a stage pick and stage selection so should
it be wit SB's the two(or more players) will be faced with a choice
simple all players must come in to agreement to have SB's in there match.
if no agreement can be meet then no Smash Ball*** in a team it would a majority 3/4th vote.
in not saying in any way Smash Balls {should/should not} be in gameplay im trying to find a middle ground rather than say YES! or NO! SB's like the rest of the crowd
***Note
i thought about a coin flip, drawing straws, ... rock paper siccors (since not every1 may have a quater but every1 must have hands (to play the game) plz tell me your thoughts about that.)
Mr Mattastic
Smash Journeyman
I love my high horse alot, thank you. It takes alot more pure skill and tactics to effectively uses and more importantly avoid FS's and items in general.
Bailey
Smash Hero
No it doesn't be quiet.
Smash Balls = Items.
Items = Off.
Solve for X
X = FACE
Smash Balls = Items.
Items = Off.
Solve for X
X = FACE
Silent Wolf
...
<-- Aftermath
Smash balls should definitely be banned.
At the tournament I just went to smash balls were on as a default, and it was ridiculous. The item frequency settings seem to have no effect on smash balls, either they are off, or they spawn every 20 seconds (every time they were on there'd be a smash ball before the clock hit 5:40 out of 6 minutes). And while it might seem like it only gives a one kill advatage, there were multiple occurrences of someone getting 2 stock with a single FS (one of the most notable was falco getting a landmaster kill, then flying up to the top of the screen when the person was spawning, killing off the top with no way out). As soon as someone gets an FS, either they use it immediately if it's one that doesn't require timing, or they camp until the other person comes into range.
The biggest problem is that it's really a free kill (at least one) for 80% of the characters with no regard to skill. You hit with the FS, there's nothing the opponent can do at that point, people's like Ike's, Marth's, the fox trio, Ganon's, and Sonic's require you to do very little, and once they start, there's nothing you can do except die. With regular kills, you'd have to actively do something, I don't mean technically, but there was never something where you could just start it and be guaranteed a kill easily. Wobbling was the closest, but that is leagues above the difficulty of pulling off and invincible FS that doesn't matter where you start, and on the couple that you have to space, it's unbelievably easy to do so. Of the matches that they were on, almost every kill was by smash ball, with little happening between.
If they only showed up once a match or something, then it could be considered for use, but the fact that they do come up so unbelievably frequently should really exclude them from tournaments.
Smash balls should definitely be banned.
At the tournament I just went to smash balls were on as a default, and it was ridiculous. The item frequency settings seem to have no effect on smash balls, either they are off, or they spawn every 20 seconds (every time they were on there'd be a smash ball before the clock hit 5:40 out of 6 minutes). And while it might seem like it only gives a one kill advatage, there were multiple occurrences of someone getting 2 stock with a single FS (one of the most notable was falco getting a landmaster kill, then flying up to the top of the screen when the person was spawning, killing off the top with no way out). As soon as someone gets an FS, either they use it immediately if it's one that doesn't require timing, or they camp until the other person comes into range.
The biggest problem is that it's really a free kill (at least one) for 80% of the characters with no regard to skill. You hit with the FS, there's nothing the opponent can do at that point, people's like Ike's, Marth's, the fox trio, Ganon's, and Sonic's require you to do very little, and once they start, there's nothing you can do except die. With regular kills, you'd have to actively do something, I don't mean technically, but there was never something where you could just start it and be guaranteed a kill easily. Wobbling was the closest, but that is leagues above the difficulty of pulling off and invincible FS that doesn't matter where you start, and on the couple that you have to space, it's unbelievably easy to do so. Of the matches that they were on, almost every kill was by smash ball, with little happening between.
If they only showed up once a match or something, then it could be considered for use, but the fact that they do come up so unbelievably frequently should really exclude them from tournaments.
Enshoku
Smash Lord
just a note: rock paper sissors isn't random, they have professional tournaments for it, and it's pretty easy to pick you opponent's choice...
also: coins aren't 50/50 the heads side is heavier, due to more detail, and bulgyness on it...
Enshoku
Smash Lord
just a note: rock paper sissors isn't random, they have professional tournaments for it, and it's pretty easy to pick you opponent's choice...
also: coins aren't 50/50 the heads side is heavier, due to more detail, and bulgyness on it...
when making a point for an argument in a thread how bout you don't contradict yourself?
Have you seen what falco's fs can do?
LOL LIFT YOU OFF TOP OF STAGE
OOPS YOU RESPAWN?!
LOL DO IT AGAIN
Yeah its broken no it won't see the tournament play
LOL LIFT YOU OFF TOP OF STAGE
OOPS YOU RESPAWN?!
LOL DO IT AGAIN
Yeah its broken no it won't see the tournament play
Miharu
Smash Hero
Learn to read.
Good job trolling.
I like how the majority of your posts are useless one-liners that contribute very little to the actual topic.
Man scrubs are dumb
That might sound elitist, but at least the people that give reasons for banning it make sense and have played competitive before
man scrubs are dumb
That might sound elitist, but at least the people that give reasons for banning it make sense and have played competitive before
man scrubs are dumb
Enshoku
Smash Lord
who are the scrubs in said situation?
anyone who argues that FS aren't random or would balance gameplay
or who haven't even played brawl yet
or who haven't even played brawl yet
Miharu
Smash Hero
That "comboking" guy >_>
Enshoku
Smash Lord
you are using the word scrub as sirlin used it, right?
Didn't he argue that this is the game maker's fault?
KmezzLIGHTNING
Smash Cadet
smash balls are just another item, don't we know why items aren't used?
I can assure u that if I'm sonic and smash balls are on, there's no competing. Sonic will get to it first AND KO you with it at least once.
I'd like to see tournaments with smash balls, though, it isn't fair.
I can assure u that if I'm sonic and smash balls are on, there's no competing. Sonic will get to it first AND KO you with it at least once.
I'd like to see tournaments with smash balls, though, it isn't fair.
Mailman
Smash Rookie
Maybe there should be split tournaments: with and without final smash on, it's not that hard to figure out...
But if I had to choose, I would leave them on. Yes, it's deadly, when hit. I have seen Marth's Final Smash, it's dangerous, but only to the range of the closest character facing him and only other enemies extremely close by. However, Olimar's on the other hand basically KO's everyone playing but I belive his unorthodox style balances this out. What I'm trying to say is, I think what balances the characters' Final Smashes is the character. Now the teir list is not my favorite thing, but some of the characters are notably faster or stronger than others, and I think the Final Smash balances that out, to an extent.
Don't hate on me so much, it's my first real post, I'm just saying what I've seen and think.
But if I had to choose, I would leave them on. Yes, it's deadly, when hit. I have seen Marth's Final Smash, it's dangerous, but only to the range of the closest character facing him and only other enemies extremely close by. However, Olimar's on the other hand basically KO's everyone playing but I belive his unorthodox style balances this out. What I'm trying to say is, I think what balances the characters' Final Smashes is the character. Now the teir list is not my favorite thing, but some of the characters are notably faster or stronger than others, and I think the Final Smash balances that out, to an extent.
Don't hate on me so much, it's my first real post, I'm just saying what I've seen and think.
Miharu
Smash Hero
The main problem is that once you get the smash ball, all you have to press one button, and your opponent may die multiple times.
Considering there will at most be 4 stocks per match, that's imbalanced.
Mailman
Smash Rookie
Hmm...I see, then I'll just go with my original(probably not THAT original) thought: split the tournaments have some with FS and some without. But that's really up to those who make up the tournaments.
Enshoku
Smash Lord
smash balls are gonna make online bad...
Mailman
Smash Rookie
Possibly, but remember, winning isn't ALWAYS fun...
Enshoku
Smash Lord
no, but I see item campers and spammers running rampant in the US...
mario-man
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,840
pretty dang near it....
Charzonsos
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2008
- Messages
- 47
Red has advantage over Final Smashes due to the invincability frames when he switches Pokemon.
Enshoku
Smash Lord
poor marth, squirtle right next to the edge...
Radical Dreamer
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 14, 2007
- Messages
- 827
Marth's final smash covers the span of Final Destination.