Wiimote has Better Smash DI than a GC Controller!

[The_Jiggernaut]

Hey guys, I have a scenario I want to run by you guys and a question to ask. If most people already know the answer, please just post a link or something. Thanks. ^_^

Alright, so I'm making a claim that smash DI is twice as powerful for the WiiMote/Nunchuck than the GC controller. Here's my reasoning:

When setting a players controls for the CG controller, You can change the C-stick to be a B-stick or whatever, but you have to set the entire thing as one choice. No setting up to being B, and the rest as smashes.

However, with the Wiimote's equivalent to the c-stick, the d-pad on at the top, you can set each direction as a different move. For example, the default is up--Jump, left/right--Grab, down--shield. One of the options for each direction is the equivalent smash. (Ergo, up--uSmash, down--dSmash, side--sideSmash.) Meaning, you can have the d-pad set to grabs etc except for down set as dSmash (as I had for a while). Pressing down on the d-pad under this config was the exact same as a C-stick being pushed downwards. If other directions were set as smash, it would be the equivalent of the C-stick in that direction.

So, since the directions on the d-pad all functions essentially as separate buttons, hitting a diagonal on the d-pad (set to all smashes for the sake of simplicity) is not the same as hitting the C-stick diagonally, but is equivalent to hitting the C-stick down AND hitting the C-stick to the side at the same time. You are hitting two buttons that both separately act as a C-stick each. Therefore with every hit of the diagonal, you are Smash DI'ing effective to double the DI of a CG controller. Awesome.


I'd like to know if this has already been proved/disproved. Does the WiiMote have some sort of system where a diagonal DI'ing only counts as one? If so, you can hit one than the other quickly. Since they wouldn't be at the same time, the controller couldn't combine them.

Anyways, please say what you think.

 

[Brinzy]

If this is true, Zelda will kill you.

 

[Kewkky]

I know that with the wiimote+nunchuck, you can get out of grabs/inhales/anything else faster than with a GCN controller. The buttons are closer to each other, and yes, the dpad can be configured to be buttons (with cstick properties). In the end, we end up pressing buttons at a faster rate than with a GCN controller.

At least, that's what I'm making out through spatial reasoning.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

If this is true, Zelda will kill you.

Any particular reason? Technically, this can be used to get out of a lot of her moves, so I don't follow...

I know that with the wiimote+nunchuck, you can get out of grabs/inhales/anything else faster than with a GCN controller. The buttons are closer to each other, and yes, the dpad can be configured to be buttons (with cstick properties). In the end, we end up pressing buttons at a faster rate than with a GCN controller.

At least, that's what I'm making out through spatial reasoning.

It's not just that fact that we will press buttons faster than moving a stick up and down (which is true to begin with), but according to my logic above, every button pressed(technically two on a diagonal, but one push nonetheless) on the Wiimote counts as hitting the C-stick in that direction twice! Even if it took the same time to push the button than it did to flick a stick, the Wii-Chuck would still be literally twice as good.

Edit @ Successor of Raphael: Oh wait.... Do you mean like in my sleep kinda thing? Uh oh...

 

[jaaboy]

that would be a major change

 

[Steeler]

Ultimate Razer probably knew this all along...lol.

 

[Brinzy]

Edit @ Successor of Raphael: Oh wait.... Do you mean like in my sleep kinda thing? Uh oh...

Yes, exactly.

 

[deepseadiva]

And suddenly everyone switched to remote...

Lawl. I hope this works; it'd be a nice incentive to the three wiimote users.

 

[xDD-Master]

Hm well, this sounds interesting, I will make some tests with them, but at first I have to find my perfect button-choice XD

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Yes, exactly.

Oh, snap! I'll just pay Olimar to be my body guard.

And suddenly everyone switched to remote...

Lawl. I hope this works; it'd be a nice incentive to the three wiimote users.

Lol, too true. Not alot of people use them at all. It would be nice to see a mix of controllers. You can also do DACUS easier on a WiiChuck.

Hm well, this sounds interesting, I will make some tests with them, but at first I have to find my perfect button-choice XD

Seriously, then? I figured this was extremely well known or something. Alright, I think I will test this out too, and then compare results.

For config, I use down, left and right on the d-pad as smashes and up on the d-pad as grab, with everything else the same. If you want the d-pad as all smashes, I've heard of people using the 1 or 2 buttons to be grab instead, though. If you can pull it off, you can also grab by pressing A and B at the same time, lol. Also, you can just shield then grab every time.

 

[Bellioes]

Ally DI will become Razor DI once he learns to use this
Nice find, I hope this really works

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Dude this would be too cool! Can't wait to hear what the results are!

 

[Prawn]

Interesting, if the DI is really that much better than we may actually see wiimote users.

Imagine M2K swinging his arms around like an idiot haha

 

[spartandrew21]

This sounds like it has potential, it would be cool if it worked.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Alright, glad to see that people are interested in this. I didn't point it out in the first post, but if this works, a player could put shake smash on too, giving them 3 times as good DI as a GC controller if you shake the controller one way while DIing diagonally with the D-pad, lol.

Obviously, that player would have to deal with the repercussions of having shake smash on, but I felt the need to point this out.

 

[BBQ°]

Actually shake smash is banned, if I recall correctly.

 

[Zaffy]

Actually shake smash is banned, if I recall correctly.

Any reason why?

 

[pure_awesome]

Oh my god I hope this catches on.

Competitive Brawl will look so ridiculous, it'd be amazing.

 

[Kinzer]

Any reason why?

A good guess would be to say that people swinging their hands/arms around like idiots and accidentally hitting stuff/other people would cause a problem.

Good luck getting that faulty configuration to work though. Or at least I sure as Hell don't have any idea how to make it work.

 

[POKE40]

I'd like to see a video comparsion b/w the wii mote and gc controller
:O

I'll be amazed...
Gonna try that now

 

[kamimari36]

Well, I use JUST the Wiimote, no nunchuk. I had to learn how to do things differently.
I can't DACUS, but I can Hyphen smash, angle smashes and tilts, pivot grab, and still do most stuff that is known. It's hard. But I agree with your OP.
Because if the wiimote is lacking things that you can do with other controllers, then the GC controller should have its faults too.

 

[Jorgeme]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221969&highlight=guide

read the section on QCDI. it explains that a gc controller actually has more inputs than the four you get on a wiimote's d-pad.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Lol, too true. Not alot of people use them at all. It would be nice to see a mix of controllers. You can also do DACUS easier on a WiiChuck.

What's easier than c-stick V -> c-stick ^ + Z?

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Actually shake smash is banned, if I recall correctly.

Seriously? Weird. Can anyone confirm this?

I'd like to see a video comparison b/w the wii mote and gc controller
:O

I'll be amazed...
Gonna try that now

I'm going to go do some test in a minute and I'll be saving the replays. If anyone can change replays to video with a camera/capture card for me (I cannot), then I will be able to upload a comparison video. This would be much appreciated.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221969&highlight=guide

read the section on QCDI. it explains that a gc controller actually has more inputs than the four you get on a wiimote's d-pad.

Alright thanks for this, I didn't know that. For anyone who doesn't feel like looking, it says that on a GC controller, you can do a quarter circle with the direction you want to travel in the middle (if down, left-down>down>right-down). This gives you effectively 3 times the DI of standard SDI on a GC controller.

However, I imagine that it could be quicker to press a button twice in the same time as one quarter circle, so this WiiChuck method my still be viable or even better. If shake smash is not banned, using it would make the WiiChuck probably better. Not that it is that great to have to begin with.

What's easier than c-stick V -> c-stick ^ + Z?

How about dSmash>A button while shifting the control stick from the side to up? I'd like to point out that dSmash on the WiiChuck is directly above the A button, so it only requires a quick flip of the finger. Also, the control scheme would be unchanged according to common controls, so you don't have to sacrifice and buttons like the Z button or a shoulder button to be able to DACUS.

 

[IxxI]

We have found Razer's secret!

 

[BBQ°]

Oh. Apparently I did not recall correctly. Shake smash is not banned.

 

[Jorgeme]

However, I imagine that it could be quicker to press a button twice in the same time as one quarter circle, so this WiiChuck method my still be viable or even better. If shake smash is not banned, using it would make the WiiChuck probably better. Not that it is that great to have to begin with.

I don't quite understand your logic here. If QCDI is 3x the SDI and pressing any button twice is 2x the SDI wouldn't QCDI be better?

 

[Crizthakidd]

you can still QCDI with a wii mote since ur doing the same steps. i guess one takes longer than the other.

ultimaterazor u have been found. but anyway idk if u want to use this DI to surivve longer or get outa multi hit moves O.o

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Oh. Apparently I did not recall correctly. Shake smash is not banned.

Alright then, no problem. I'm not sure that they could ban it anyways, could they?

I don't quite understand your logic here. If QCDI is 3x the SDI and pressing any button twice is 2x the SDI wouldn't QCDI be better?

First of all, what I said was that QCDI is 3 times the normal SDI and one button press of a diagonal of the d-pad is 2 times the normal SDI.

Obviously, QCDI looks like the better choice, since it is stronger per use. However, you would have to do a quarter circle, put the c-stick back in neutral and then do another quarter circle to keep using it. This would take some time. If fact, it is possible to press the buttons on the WiiChuck much faster than someone can do QCDI. If someone could press the button 3 times in the time someone else can do 2 quarter circles, then the two types are effectively equal (2X3=6, 3X2=6). I think it is possible to press the buttons at a much faster rate than that, though, making it possibly better.

However, if the statement for QCDI to be true, the diagonal of the C-stick would have to be equal to one stick in either direction. (ex, down left diagonal is one up, one left.) If this is true, then the whole idea of WiiChuck being better falls apart. I personally think that QCDI is not correct, and that the statement isn't true for the diagonals of a GC controller. I will test this fact myself.

you can still QCDI with a wii mote since ur doing the same steps. i guess one takes longer than the other.

ultimaterazor u have been found. but anyway idk if u want to use this DI to surivve longer or get outa multi hit moves O.o

I don't know if you can QCDI with a wiimote, but I will check all of this stuff out in a bit. If anyone else has test results, feel free to post it.

And I assume UltimateRazor is that snake player who uses a WiiChuck that I have heard about?

 

[Bellioes]

But you QCDI with the control stick, not the c-stick. Which means first of all, you dont need to return the stick to neutral. But... since the control stick is bigger, you take longer to make a quarter circle. I actually believe that you could do the button inputs on the WiiMote twice in the time it takes you to do one quarter circle with the GC controller. If its possible, the WiiMote is better; GC=3 per circle WiiMote= 2 per button press x 2 button presses= 4.

 

[lmntolp]

For both controllers, you'd be trying to do QCDI and SDI at the same time. That means quarter circles on control sticks and regular smash DI with c-stick or d-pad. Maybe spamming button presses is faster than tapping on a c-stick though.

As for shake smash, it's good for escaping grabs and things, but it's not as good for SDI. It's not easy to continuously input one direction. To keep smashing up you have to keep raising the wiimote fast enough to register, but slow enough so that you don't end up stretching your whole body up.

 

[tocador]

Wiichuck is wayyyyyy underrated! It is better then GC controler!

Ultimaterazer knows what he is doing :D!

 

[demonictoonlink]

So... Any truth to this?
Regardless, I love GCC too much

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

But you QCDI with the control stick, not the c-stick. Which means first of all, you dont need to return the stick to neutral. But... since the control stick is bigger, you take longer to make a quarter circle. I actually believe that you could do the button inputs on the WiiMote twice in the time it takes you to do one quarter circle with the GC controller. If its possible, the WiiMote is better; GC=3 per circle WiiMote= 2 per button press x 2 button presses= 4.

Wait, QCDI is only done with the Control stick? Really? I guess I got that confused. I thought it said that in the guide... How are you supposed to DI with the control stick, then? Doing quarter circles with it, or just holding a direction on the control stick?

Well, you would have to reset it to neutral if you wanted each quarter circle to be 3 times as much as a regular hit. If you do a quarter circle, then do then quarter circle back over and over, only the first quarter circle would be three inputs. Since you start each additional circle in one of the grooves, it won't count that groove again, so when you finish your quarter circle, it would really only be 2 inputs. Unless it was returned to neutral, however.

Exactly, if the button presses can be done faster, then it is better.

For both controllers, you'd be trying to do QCDI and SDI at the same time. That means quarter circles on control sticks and regular smash DI with c-stick or d-pad. Maybe spamming button presses is faster than tapping on a c-stick though.

As for shake smash, it's good for escaping grabs and things, but it's not as good for SDI. It's not easy to continuously input one direction. To keep smashing up you have to keep raising the wiimote fast enough to register, but slow enough so that you don't end up stretching your whole body up.

So does that mean you aren't supposed to QCDI with the C-stick? You just hit it in a direction repeatedly, right?

It's not just the fact that spamming button presses are faster, but if my hypothesis is correct, then pressing the diagonal of the D-pad would be the same as using two c-sticks at once.



Alright, guys, here's what I'm going to do to prove/disprove my original statement.

First, I'm going to see if one hit diagonally on the C-stick is the same as one hit left and one hit down (for example). If a diagonal is like that, then the diagonal DI's would be equal. Since you can angle a smash using the C-stick and you can't with the WiiChuck, it makes me think that a diagonal hit is not the same as a stick left and a stick down.

After I test this, I will test the DI of a WiiChuck and compare it to the previous results and come to a conclusion. If you guys want to see video proof after I'm done, I'll need someone to covert the replays I make into video for me.

 

[Bellioes]

Yeah, heres how SDI (which is what QCDI really is) works. You can only SDI during hitlag or the small amount of frames between when you get hit and when you actually start flying. For example, DKs Dsmash has a lot of hitlag (you can actually feel yourself stunned before you fly away)
As for DIing with the control stick, it really depends on what kind of DI. If its QCDI, its obviously a quarter circle but if its just regular DI, than you just hold the direction.

 

[Meru.]

A good guess would be to say that people swinging their hands/arms around like idiots and accidentally hitting stuff/other people would cause a problem.

It's called shake smash for a reason. You gently shake the wii remote, unless you really want to make a fool out of yourself.

(And I know you weren't really serious, just want to remind people o.o)

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

(still waiting for the results....)

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

(still waiting for the results....)

Ya, sorry about that guys. My personnal life got in the way of me testing this out.

Basically, lots of school work for my summer courses. If someone want to test these out while you wait for me, that would be great. It would really help to have results to compare mine to.

If you want, I'll give you my method I have planned...

 

[EdreesesPieces]

If someone made a vid of them trying to smash DI out of attacks with a GC controller vs a wiimote and the wiimote proved signifantly better I'd honestly make the swithc, Smash DI is the best thing in this game to win. Imagine if marth MK tornado'd and every single time you smash DI'd and hit him with an aerial, everytime marth forward b'd you ended up behind him to back air him, or every time DDD used any of his multi hit aerials you smash DI'd and hit him. I hate changing controlers but i'd seriously consider trying if this was a significant difference.

 

[lmntolp]

Well, you would have to reset it to neutral if you wanted each quarter circle to be 3 times as much as a regular hit. If you do a quarter circle, then do then quarter circle back over and over, only the first quarter circle would be three inputs. Since you start each additional circle in one of the grooves, it won't count that groove again, so when you finish your quarter circle, it would really only be 2 inputs. Unless it was returned to neutral, however.

You're right about this, QCDI isn't really 3 times as good. However, you're worried about number and speed of inputs, and it's faster to make windshield wiper-like swings instead of going back to neutral or starting from the same side each quarter circle.

I don't have two types of controllers, but maybe a good way to test this is to see how long it takes to diagonally SDI away from a smartbomb in training mode.