Smash Wii U Wii U is hackable - Will there be mods again?

[thatoneguy1]

Yes.

Your posts seem to be the same, only shorter.

so youre telling me you never want any new content?

 

[Saito]

I'm not blaming all competitive Melee fans out there because I know some are great, but god damn all you guys seem to do is complain.

Oh good, I thought I was going to have to write out a wall of text again.

but I still have one thing to say about that post.

Pros were able to abuse certain techniques that many casuals are completely unfamiliar with, which gave them an unfair disadvantage.

Techs are available for everyone to learn.
If one wants to learn, then all they have to do is ask how it's done. Then they just try to learn it.

If they don't want to learn it because it makes the game more like work than fun, then don't learn it and just play casually. Not like the casual player would want to enter a tournament unless they think they are the top dog.

 

[StriCNYN3]

"Long truthful post laydown".

...You know, this guy is onto something. I've noticed, too, when I thought I grew up with Smash 64. Turns out, it was just some fabricated memory experiment implemented by the government. Haha, those guys. Same goes for players like Isai, Sensei, M2k and many other melee players that used to play 64 growing up and still do today. Tournaments like Apex 2012 didn't happen, either.

Also, yes, every Melee player are in fact COD players. Irrefutable proof.

And yup, you guessed it. Brawl players are saints that do no wrong while Melee players are only selfish man children who only want the game to be catered to all audiences. The nerve of those people understanding that they'd at least want a bone thrown at them, given the fact they understand Smash at it's very core is a very good game and the casual side is already covered. Why the hell would they expect freedom of play and flexibility in a game like Smash Bros? Like, really? We all know the results from the transition from Smash 64 to Melee were catastrophic. If we've learned anything, especially in the Wii U forums, is to not repeat history from what we've learned, successful and non conflicting be damned, and at the same time, not utilize what we've learned from 15 years of Smash.

Of course a single thread from a single poster in the Smash 4 forums wondering about the possibility of PM due to upcoming Wii U mods = The entire Melee community questioning Sakurai as a sub human. Also, I've witness these complaints such as "Project M did the Light Suit for Samus better because they actually changed the model" myself, so it must be hive mind thinking. I mean it's from the internet.

I think we can all learn something from this guy. Tell 'em Acadian Flycatcher. Lay down that unspoken truth.

Gonna play devil's advocate though and say I can see people wanting options in PM2's case. Apparently, going by PM, people don't have to download the mod if they don't have to and you still need the original Brawl CD in order to ever play PM, but who knows. Melee players always fabricating the truth.

 

[mtmaster]

I have mixed feelings. I wouldn't mind another Smash Brothers mod, but I would just as well keep Smash 4 the way it is, and the mods that are already available to us, if I'm in the mood for it. Besides the main thing that appeals to me with mods is custom music, the occasional custom texture, and being able to play as those characters that you wished were in Smash. Mechanically speaking however, I don't particularly care if the mechanics are like Melee, as I was never a diehard melee fan.

Hacking the Wii pretty much voids the warranty, so the same can easily apply to the Wii U as well. And since the Wii U's game data can't be copied, you'd be screwed if the Wii U is beyond repair, all because you hacked it.

Assuming a mod of Smash 4 could be mad, making it like Brawl +, Brawl -, or PM, I would like to think you could load it up without actually having to apply a homebrew in order to load the game, thus you wouldn't void your warranty, since you aren't doing anything to your Wii U that it couldn't already do. That being said though, while I would be curious to see a Smash 4 mod, I'd much rather it be left alone (at least for awhile), and let Smash 4 be Smash 4. I think a lot of people are more than happy with PM right now as it stands so they always have to fall back on if Smash 4 for whatever reason doesn't appeal to those people that simply prefer melee style combat. Although if it ever happened I'd still play it just because one of the things that appeals to me with Project M is that you get basically EVERY character that Smash has had minus the ones that don't really matter to much.

Have to disagree with that "still fun for casuals" part, to some extent. Not that it's terrible for that purpose, but it's not as good as vanilla Brawl. The stage list in Project M is a repetitive snoozefest for casual play (even going as far as making some really fun Brawl stages, like WarioWare, super boring), and for some strange reason, they don't let you pick up items while dashing, which feels really counter-intuitive for casuals (and keeping the feature would not have effected competitive play - it's literally only removed to make that aspect of the game more like Melee, for the sake of it, rather than being of benefit to anyone).

Gotta agree with you there, while I do like P:M I will admit I do miss some of the things that Brawl had that don't work in P:M. I can't speak for anyone else but I actually really enjoyed SSE mode, and while yes while I could go back to Vanilla Brawl if I really wanted to play it, being able to play it along with all the other features that don't quire work in P:M would be nice lol

I don't understand why a game has to be competitive for everyone to like it. We have Melee and PM. Those games aren't going anywhere. We all need to give Smash 4 the chance it deserves. If the game isn't competitive then go back to Melee/The PM we already have and take Smash as what its meant to be. A party game.

You sir speak the truth. Smash has a competitive community, but at the end of the day unlike more traditional fighters its intended as a party game at the end of the day lol.

 

[QuickRat]

I don't see this "smash is a party game and some geeks try to exploit its gameplay" statement. I understand both Sakurai and Nintendo are interested in a 10 year-old market, so they try to make a game funny for those ages. And also, they try to give a very entertaining game in free-for-all battles for people that just want to kick some ass with some fancy character they vaguely know. That's pretty true. But that's something I can tell for Street Fighter, Team Fortress and almost every single competitive game on this planet.

"Competitive" is not a "good game" as sometimes is suggested -- "competitive" is just a game in which players compete. End of story. A competitive game can be a fighting game, true, but also the 2P mode in Sonic the Hedgehog 2. The problem whith competition is the forces must be equal and the gameplay has to be plenty of resources to see lots of gamestyle variations between players. If you think about a traditional sport, you can understand what I'm saying. Basket would be very boring if local team has broken advantages or if the rules don't allow anything but throwing the ball (no technical faults, no slams, no three...). I'd say nobody would follow basket around the world. Actually, basket was something like that in most of Western countries before the modern basketball was invented. Just a ball game. Then somebody made his particular Project M and, wow, a pretty technical, fast-paced sport emerged from scratch. So, in my opinion, any game which has competition must give a balanced competition full of rules and techniques. And traditionally, Smash is not so good at that subject.

 

[StarLight42]

I really have no idea why people would be against this, it'll save the Smash 4 scene if it flops, but whatever.

 

[Cold Fusion]

How about we actually play the game first before declaring it isn't close enough to Melee?

 

[mtmaster]

How about we actually play the game first before declaring it isn't close enough to Melee?

Thank you lol.

 

[D-idara]

so youre telling me you never want any new content?

I was agreeing with him on the fact that playing a game for so long can be boring, basically saying that Melee's getting irritating to look at.

 

[ChikoLad]

I really have no idea why people would be against this, it'll save the Smash 4 scene if it flops, but whatever.

Question is, would it even need saving? As in, if it flopped competitively, would anyone actually care about that? I'm sure even the competitive community will enjoy many things Smash 4 will bring for isolated reasons and still pick it up, even if they don't enjoy it for that exact purpose. Amiibos, for example, will show promise for many Smash fans who enjoy the characters.

Not that I think it will flop, but it doesn't need to be as advanced as Melee or even have similar tournament rules to Melee.

Brawl needed modding because it couldn't really be approached from a different angle than the definitive tier list and AT's.

Smash 4 is gonna have stuff like custom moves and stat changing equipment as is. Even if it doesn't have as many AT's, it's gonna have it's own, new layer of strategy to it that Melee didn't have or need, and that Brawl didn't have to fall back on, kinda like a Pokémon game.

So in that sense, I doubt this game will need "saving".

 

[Ba-Yo]

I feel it's bit too early to even think of the possibility of future Smash mods, these guys just found this exploit, and it doesn't seem to give them as much freedom with the hardware as needed for extensive modding.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Random tripping,

This is legit.

infinite chaingrabs,

Wobbling. If not I point to what Marth can do to Fox on FD, every grab should be death if done right. Or just watch Shiek vs anyone she can CG with her Dthrow and her's hits a larger % of the cast than D3s did. This isn't Brawl exclusive.

simplified airdodges

Anyone worth their salt can punish an Airdodge in Brawl, it's gonna be even easier in smash 4 to punish this. It's easier to airdodge and get away with in in Brawl, but it' not a fault of the game.

and lots of other faults made Brawl a bad game in terms of competitivity.

I'd actually say what made it less popular was,
1. Metaknight taking all the money
2. Defensive play was too strong
3. Ice Climbers got dumber as more discoveries were found to the point only 5 characters beat them and all of those characters take advantage of a very polarizing weakness.
4. It's not as exciting to watch. Granted people watch Dota2 and League which is far slower than really any fighting game, but it still has moments that are exciting to watch.

The proof is the community abandoned Brawl but not Melee when PM was launched and PMBR and Masahiro came up to the same conclusions in some aspects of the gameplay.

Not everyone really abandoned Brawl, but when Smash 4 comes out most of the people there will jump to smash 4. Which is fine since, well to be frank from what we are seeing it does fix a lot of what was wrong with Brawl while making it improved in other areas.

 

[ChikoLad]

I feel it's bit too early to even think of the possibility of future Smash mods, these guys just found this exploit, and it doesn't seem to give them as much freedom with the hardware as needed for extensive modding.

Actually, the exploit they found gives them unlimited freedom. Unless I interpreted incorrectly, they are essentially able to re-write what the RAM loads. RAM handles what a system loads up temporarily, and the amount of RAM a system has determines the volume of data a system can load up at once, in layman's terms. Games are told to utilise the RAM to load up specific things, like level files, music files, scripts, etc. RAM is one of the many reasons why console modding is more limited than PC modding - you can build a PC with as much RAM as you need so mod development is only limited the RAM you personally have, since people can easily build PCs with 16GB RAM or so, while many games that are commonly modded probably require no more than 4GB in vanilla form (and even then, a lower end PC with say, 2GB RAM, could run the game with minimal settings in some cases, the graphics just won't be too great). They just have to tell the game to utilise more RAM if they need it to. That's why, for example, many graphics overhaul mods for PC games like Skyrim, have their own system requirements stated by the modders, since people who can run the vanilla game perfectly may not be able to run this mod well.

However, since consoles are designed to use so much RAM, games for them cannot go beyond that amount. In the Wii U's case, 2GB RAM, with 1GB allocated to games (and this is shared between the CPU and GPU), and 1GB allocated to the operating system.

The reason why they can't do much with games like Mario Kart 8 or even change much on the Wii U Menu, is because Nintendo always uses their own in-house engines and file formats for things, and those need to be figured out (not just the names, but how they work). For example, the file format for music in games like MKWii and SSBB, was called ".brstm". That had to be figured out before custom music could be made, and a user friendly tool for converting things into .brstm format had to be made and distributed so regular people could do it themselves.

Right now, we don't know what file format is used for the elements of MK8 beyond the text (which is something very standard even in Nintendo's games, as it is just text). Nor do we have tools to make custom ones (and Nintendo aren't going to release theirs, so people have to make custom tools, like what BrawlBox was for SSBB).

However, with the a game like Batman: Arkham Origins, chances are they could do a lot more, since that game uses Unreal Engine 3, and the dev kit for that is officially released to the public (UDK) and is tailoured for console game development on the consoles that support it, and Wii U is one of those consoles. I can tell you right now that Batman: Arkham Origins probably uses .wav files for it's music, since that's pretty standard on Unreal Engine 3 games.

As for why Batman: Arkham Origins isn't modded on Wii U, it's because it has a PC version which actually has a modding community, so these guys would be wasting their time modding it on Wii U. They could theoretically put custom stages and music into Batman: Arkham Origins on Wii U if they wanted to though, since they have both the means to re-write data (which they demonstrated in the MK8 video), and the means to develop the various assets for the game's engine (UDK is used to develop for Unreal Engine 3).

 

[QuickRat]

This is legit.



Wobbling. If not I point to what Marth can do to Fox on FD, every grab should be death if done right. Or just watch Shiek vs anyone she can CG with her Dthrow and her's hits a larger % of the cast than D3s did. This isn't Brawl exclusive.



Anyone worth their salt can punish an Airdodge in Brawl, it's gonna be even easier in smash 4 to punish this. It's easier to airdodge and get away with in in Brawl, but it' not a fault of the game.



I'd actually say what made it less popular was,
1. Metaknight taking all the money
2. Defensive play was too strong
3. Ice Climbers got dumber as more discoveries were found to the point only 5 characters beat them and all of those characters take advantage of a very polarizing weakness.
4. It's not as exciting to watch. Granted people watch Dota2 and League which is far slower than really any fighting game, but it still has moments that are exciting to watch.



Not everyone really abandoned Brawl, but when Smash 4 comes out most of the people there will jump to smash 4. Which is fine since, well to be frank from what we are seeing it does fix a lot of what was wrong with Brawl while making it improved in other areas.

Well, you and I think in a same way, I see. Wobbling was removed in Project M if I'm right. I didn't want to say Melee as the way to be followed. I think it's not in some aspects, such as the lack of balance. And I think the airdodge has more sense in Melee and Project M than in Brawl. In general terms, I think we agree each other.

 

[StarLight42]

Question is, would it even need saving? As in, if it flopped competitively, would anyone actually care about that? I'm sure even the competitive community will enjoy many things Smash 4 will bring for isolated reasons and still pick it up, even if they don't enjoy it for that exact purpose. Amiibos, for example, will show promise for many Smash fans who enjoy the characters.

Not that I think it will flop, but it doesn't need to be as advanced as Melee or even have similar tournament rules to Melee.

Brawl needed modding because it couldn't really be approached from a different angle than the definitive tier list and AT's.

Smash 4 is gonna have stuff like custom moves and stat changing equipment as is. Even if it doesn't have as many AT's, it's gonna have it's own, new layer of strategy to it that Melee didn't have or need, and that Brawl didn't have to fall back on, kinda like a Pokémon game.

So in that sense, I doubt this game will need "saving".

Too much useless information in your post that doesn't get to the point, so i'm not sure I understand, sorry.

The point i'm making is, if the game is a success with the competitive scene, it won't need a Project M, but we don't know if it will be a success, it could completely flop like Brawl, in which case a Project M would be needed to keep the competitive community interested in the new characters and such and keep interested in the new Smash mechanics while taking the good mechanics from Melee.

So if it flops, another Project M would not be a bad thing, if it does great, no, we don't need a Project M.

Also, if it does flop, I doubt the competitive scene will stay interested in it, now that Brawl took a big bite out of the community they have become more critical about Smash 4, and I don't wan that, I want to see Smash 4 at tournaments and such, i'm sick of Melee being the only game because Brawl is too casual.

 

[ChikoLad]

Too much useless information in your post that doesn't get to the point, so i'm not sure I understand, sorry.

The point i'm making is, if the game is a success with the competitive scene, it won't need a Project M, but we don't know if it will be a success, it could completely flop like Brawl, in which case a Project M would be needed to keep the competitive community interested in the new characters and such and keep interested in the new Smash mechanics while taking the good mechanics from Melee.

So if it flops, another Project M would not be a bad thing, if it does great, no, we don't need a Project M.

Also, if it does flop, I doubt the competitive scene will stay interested in it, now that Brawl took a big bite out of the community they have become more critical about Smash 4, and I don't wan that, I want to see Smash 4 at tournaments and such, i'm sick of Melee being the only game because Brawl is too casual.

..We don't need a third Melee-esque game to make money off of...if a Smash 4 Project M was made, that's exactly what it will be, and you know it. The "M" in Project M actually stands for "Melee" after all.

 

[Kevandre]

Even as a bigger fan of Brawl than I am of Melee, I love Project M a lot because it adds even more to a game I already loved.

A few years after Smash 4 comes out, let's say Ivysaur's not in it or available as DLC. Project M 2.0 will give me a playable Ivysaur... You bet your sweet cheeks I'll use that, happily.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well, you and I think in a same way, I see. Wobbling was removed in Project M if I'm right. I didn't want to say Melee as the way to be followed. I think it's not in some aspects, such as the lack of balance. And I think the airdodge has more sense in Melee and Project M than in Brawl. In general terms, I think we agree each other.

I was bringing up mostly two of the main reasons you brought up what was wrong with Brawl was either shared by Melee or wasn't really a flaw.

Multi airdodge isn't a bad thing, strong defensive option in Brawl? Yes, but still very counter able. Fall with them, if they airdodge, wait a second and then use an aireal. Into the ground? There is a frame window where you can hit them.

Melee airdodge in contrast had issues where it wasn't a good option, or doing it changed nothing. Dodged Fox's Bair? He just fast falls and goes for another. Not always came up but that was something that bugged me.

This is also though why they are toning it back a bit with more lag if you airdodge into the ground.

I'm ok with how smash 4 does it more.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

I'm 100% sure that if Mewtwo is not on the roster, there will be a hack of making him ROM hack on Greninja. It'll be one of the first. Calling it.

 

[Silent Hell]

..We don't need a third Melee-esque game to make money off of...if a Smash 4 Project M was made, that's exactly what it will be, and you know it. The "M" in Project M actually stands for "Melee" after all.

And what exactly is so wrong about having a Melee-esque game? Correct me if I'm wrong but Project M is a compilation of all advanced techniques from all games 3 games. Project M also is doing what Sakurai has been struggling to do which is balancing the game. The only reason people love Melee so much because it gives you the most control of your character.

I actually somewhat liked Brawl more than Melee, but the gameplay in Melee is just much more fun, which is why when Project M came around, it replaced both Melee and Brawl for me.

If players find that Sm4sh lacks in the competetive department and want Project M U then by all means who are we to stop them from enjoying the game the way they want to. It's not like they'd stick around to play Sm4sh anyway.

 

[ChikoLad]

And what exactly is so wrong about having a Melee-esque game? Correct me if I'm wrong but Project M is a compilation of all advanced techniques from all games 3 games. Project M also is doing what Sakurai has been struggling to do which is balancing the game. The only reason people love Melee so much because it gives you the most control of your character.

I actually somewhat liked Brawl more than Melee, but the gameplay in Melee is just much more fun, which is why when Project M came around, it replaced both Melee and Brawl for me.

If players find that Sm4sh lacks in the competetive department and want Project M U then by all means who are we to stop them from enjoying the game the way they want to. It's not like they'd stick around to play Sm4sh anyway.

It's not wrong, it's just not needed and a lot less people will care. Official patches are possible this time around, and they are taking our feedback this time around. We already have Project M for Melee successor. That's two Melees for those who play Melee for a living. They don't need a third. Not even sure if they could handle it.

Let Smash 4 be it's own thing. Let's not be the one community that hosts tourneys of a game and two mods of other games that are all really similar, and expect people to take interest.

 

[Silent Hell]

It's not wrong, it's just not needed and a lot less people will care. Official patches are possible this time around, and they are taking our feedback this time around. We already have Project M for Melee successor. That's two Melees for those who play Melee for a living. They don't need a third. Not even sure if they could handle it.

Let Smash 4 be it's own thing. Let's not be the one community that hosts tourneys of a game and two mods of other games that are all really similar, and expect people to take interest.

People have taken interest. I'd see nothing wrong with having tourneys of 3 games with essentially the same gameplay. Mario Kart anyone?

You don't think they could handle a third? Then pray tell, why continue progress with any other game if fans couldn't already handle it? You just said the gameplay was similar, so the transition would be easy.

You also seem to have this idea that only pros play Project M. I'm as casual as it gets and I love that mod. Project M may have been geared towards the competition scene, but just like Melee, casuals can play it too. I love what they did to my mains. I love how I can watch a match and my main having a fighting chance. It's balanced and the gameplay was just more fun.

Still, deciding the necessity of PM U should wait until the product is finished. Keep in mind I've been arguing hypotheticals.

Even if Sm4sh is balanced in the end, I personally would still love to see what a Project M U could do for it.

Regardless of if its necessity, no one will force you to play it. So let fans go their separate ways if they want to.

If the devs of PM are willing and fans want it, none of you should care about a split in the community that has existed since Brawl and pro players juggling 3 games at once.

 

[QuickRat]

I was bringing up mostly two of the main reasons you brought up what was wrong with Brawl was either shared by Melee or wasn't really a flaw.

Multi airdodge isn't a bad thing, strong defensive option in Brawl? Yes, but still very counter able. Fall with them, if they airdodge, wait a second and then use an aireal. Into the ground? There is a frame window where you can hit them.

Melee airdodge in contrast had issues where it wasn't a good option, or doing it changed nothing. Dodged Fox's Bair? He just fast falls and goes for another. Not always came up but that was something that bugged me.

This is also though why they are toning it back a bit with more lag if you airdodge into the ground.

I'm ok with how smash 4 does it more.

Well, that's pretty much it, yes. I pointed the problem in a wrong way, you are right. The problem isn't the infinite airdodging, the problem is how defensive it became. I believe this is kind of solved in SSB4.

 

[ChikoLad]

People have taken interest. I'd see nothing wrong with having tourneys of 3 games with essentially the same gameplay. Mario Kart anyone?

You don't think they could handle a third? Then pray tell, why continue progress with any other game if fans couldn't already handle it? You just said the gameplay was similar, so the transition would be easy.

You also seem to have this idea that only pros play Project M. I'm as casual as it gets and I love that mod. Project M may have been geared towards the competition scene, but just like Melee, casuals can play it too. I love what they did to my mains. I love how I can watch a match and my main having a fighting chance. It's balanced and the gameplay was just more fun.

Still, deciding the necessity of PM U should wait until the product is finished. Keep in mind I've been arguing hypotheticals.

Even if Sm4sh is balanced in the end, I personally would still love to see what a Project M U could do for it.

Regardless of if its necessity, no one will force you to play it. So let fans go their separate ways if they want to.

If the devs of PM are willing and fans want it, none of you should care about a split in the community that has existed since Brawl and pro players juggling 3 games at once.

I'm talking about TOs not being able to handle it. They likely won't have the money to organise three tournaments for three overly similar games, and it's kinda redundant to do so.

If a Smash 4 PM is made, the same TOs will be expected to run tourneys of it in conjunction with their Melee and PM tourneys. That's a bit much for something that is, by and large, the same game three times, practically, with the same top tier characters (Fox and Falco).

If we just let the Smash 4 community thrive on it's own (the omission of tripping pretty much guarantees that it will thrive more than Brawl), with it's on rules and TOs, it'll go down fine.

 

[SmashBro99]

To answer the title, of course there will be mods.

 

[LancerStaff]

This is the kind of outburst we got for when MrBean hacked Mario Kart 8. MrBean does NOT promote cheating of any kind.

...Then why did he show off a infinite Mushroom cheat? Or a timer reset cheat?

Brawl wasn't a good game to a large group of the Smash community.

I'm sorry, large group? No, not in any way is it a "large group".

I really have no idea why people would be against this, it'll save the Smash 4 scene if it flops, but whatever.

No, it'll just be another Melee clone that roughly half of the competitive players don't want. Japan, anyone?

 

[pizzapie7]

I'm sorry, large group? No, not in any way is it a "large group".

"...of the Smash community."

?

Is the disconnect coming from you thinking your mother and your little brother are a part of the community?

 

[CapnMuffin]

Never mind a Smash 4 hack... will the Project M team bring Project M to WiiU now? I've been wanting to try it but I don't have a Wii anymore.

 

[Senario]

This is legit.



Wobbling. If not I point to what Marth can do to Fox on FD, every grab should be death if done right. Or just watch Shiek vs anyone she can CG with her Dthrow and her's hits a larger % of the cast than D3s did. This isn't Brawl exclusive.



Anyone worth their salt can punish an Airdodge in Brawl, it's gonna be even easier in smash 4 to punish this. It's easier to airdodge and get away with in in Brawl, but it' not a fault of the game.



I'd actually say what made it less popular was,
1. Metaknight taking all the money
2. Defensive play was too strong
3. Ice Climbers got dumber as more discoveries were found to the point only 5 characters beat them and all of those characters take advantage of a very polarizing weakness.
4. It's not as exciting to watch. Granted people watch Dota2 and League which is far slower than really any fighting game, but it still has moments that are exciting to watch.



Not everyone really abandoned Brawl, but when Smash 4 comes out most of the people there will jump to smash 4. Which is fine since, well to be frank from what we are seeing it does fix a lot of what was wrong with Brawl while making it improved in other areas.

Marth and sheik have grabs based completely on reads and reaction time. They aren't infinite and easy to do. League and Dota are not the same type of game and they focus heavily on the strategy side of gameplay. Early aggression happens quite often and because it is a team game there are many plays going on.

 

[LancerStaff]

"...of the Smash community."

?

Is the disconnect coming from you thinking your mother and your little brother are a part of the community?

Competitive smash players can be, at most, less then one percent of the Smash community. And the USA Brawl scene is arguably half of that. "Large" assumes that a group would make a significant difference in sales should they not buy. Is the horribly whiny and unpleasable point four percent even worth giving up time to listen to?

 

[StarLight42]

..We don't need a third Melee-esque game to make money off of...if a Smash 4 Project M was made, that's exactly what it will be, and you know it. The "M" in Project M actually stands for "Melee" after all.

To make money off of? Umm, I thought Project M was freely distributed, if it was not, I would be against it.

The only money that will be made is tournament earnings.

I'm sorry, but you are really against this for no good reason, if people want Smash 4 more like Melee, they will make it more like Melee, that's how Project M started. People aren't just going to "accept" Smash 4 for what it is. Also, Nintendo is listening to the competitive community, but Sakurai is definitely not, as all of the impressions i've heard state the game is way more similar to Brawl than Melee. So if it is, why can't people make Project M?

 

[ChikoLad]

To make money off of? Umm, I thought Project M was freely distributed, if it was not, I would be against it.

The only money that will be made is tournament earnings.

I'm sorry, but you are really against this for no good reason, if people want Smash 4 more like Melee, they will make it more like Melee, that's how Project M started. People aren't just going to "accept" Smash 4 for what it is. Also, Nintendo is listening to the competitive community, but Sakurai is definitely not, as all of the impressions i've heard state the game is way more similar to Brawl than Melee. So if it is, why can't people make Project M?

I never said they can't.

I just said it's redundant. People don't play Melee for the characters, they do it for the gameplay. So I don't see why we are already thinking about a Project M for Smash 4.

 

[YoshiSonic]

Yay more Project M..can't you guys just stick with one?

If they do, and I sure hope not, make a Project M for Wii U there going to take out the new mechanics back with old ones.
Ledge Hog disabled so people can use a variety of tactics to guard?, lawl nope, pls stahp sakurai
Pacman wave dashing to dodge instead of using his unique abilities to escape, cool
"Let's cancel EVERYTHING"
Slam dunk mechanic (Bouncing off the ground when spiked)? A little too risky sakurai.
PM team wouldn't want any of these in to have potential counteracting their design of competitiveness PM 1.

So on and so on down the road to make it Melee 3.0/ PM 2.0, knocking Smash 4 off the tourney list, for people who can't live with only PM and Melee!! (Just using as an example, like Nintendo would let a knock off mod on their newest console become worthy for tourneys, fans are already having their jimmies rustled with suspected MK8 hacks of texture color) (also they've put a lot of hours into PM, don't see why they would start from scratch cause of melee wunners complaining)

GREAT!

Guess that's my second reply on this thread. Just wanted to try dipping my paddle in this salt ocean.

 

[Takehiko]

I hope not. What people don't understand is that hacks began because people considered brawl to have certain inconsistancies and Nintendo didn't have a way to update the games to fix problems that arrvied, so it was in the players hands to fix it and the solution that they came up with was hacks . But then when you had hacks like Balanced Brawl that made brawl good then people weren't satified because it wasn't melee.

But I'm just going to say this, you don't have any other fighting games being modded to make the game fit the mechnics of a past fighting games (i.e. people modding SF4 to be like SF3 with Tech blocking) and what you must think about is that if Nintendo has another game get hacked for players to fix it then Nintendo is going to feel Sakurai isn't good at his job anymore and start questioning if they should continue making the SSB series over all. So when Sakurai was getting mad about people making a hack then it isn't just the fact that it's his game and devotion to the game is in question, but also the fact that what company would keep making a game that can't stand the test of time.
So for me, no thanks. Even if Smash4 turns out to be bad (not up to melee standards) then I'll still push in it cause I'd rather see what sakurai can do in balancing it since this time he has the ability to.

 

[Little_GotenSRK]

I'm a fan of all Smash games, including Project M.

If people wanna hack Smash 4 to make a PM 2.0, fine. I won't be playing it this time around, since I already know that I'm gonna like Smash 4.

I'd prefer that there not be another Project M though, since people then will only want to play the mods instead of the game itself. Good luck getting a game of normal Brawl against someone who plays Project M, TBH.

Also, Project M's single player modes either crash or don't exist anymore. >_>

 

[Black Mantis]

I think it's upsetting how many people are against pm and mods in general, not because I want a new pm but because a new pm existing litterally does not affect you in any way if you don't want it.

Like it existing does not effect vanilla smash 4.

False. Project M eats up attendance for brawl tournaments (which effects how we play if there are little/no attendance for events) and places like IGN have written articles on P:M which feature them trashing Brawl.

No there should be no p:m for wii u. Game is not even out yet. Do you see people hacking Marvel 3 to make it more like Marvel 2? No, they just play Marvel 2 instead.

 

[StarLight42]

I never said they can't.

I just said it's redundant. People don't play Melee for the characters, they do it for the gameplay. So I don't see why we are already thinking about a Project M for Smash 4.

Well i'll end on this note, if we need it, it's there for us, if we don't need it, we don't have to have it.

 

[pizzapie7]

Competitive smash players can be, at most, less then one percent of the Smash community. And the USA Brawl scene is arguably half of that. "Large" assumes that a group would make a significant difference in sales should they not buy. Is the horribly whiny and unpleasable point four percent even worth giving up time to listen to?

I don't think he ever mentioned anything about sales numbers. He said a large portion of the Smash community did not like it. And when the vast majority of competitive players these days are playing Melee or PM, that's a completely fair statement, no?

False. Project M eats up attendance for brawl tournaments (which effects how we play if there are little/no attendance for events) and places like IGN have written articles on P:M which feature them trashing Brawl.

No there should be no p:m for wii u. Game is not even out yet. Do you see people hacking Marvel 3 to make it more like Marvel 2? No, they just play Marvel 2 instead.

Those articles take a tone that the PM creators never wanted them to. You can go ask them themselves, they post on these boards. Any negative light shed on Brawl isn't what they wanted to have happen. Without Brawl there would be no PM.

If Brawl was a good game, you'd think people would be praising it and it wouldn't be having its attendance eaten at by a decade old game and a mod made by amateurs. People should play what they want to play, if someone doesn't like the way Smash 4 plays and wants to mod it, that's just more fun for the rest of us.

 

[LancerStaff]

I don't think he ever mentioned anything about sales numbers. He said a large portion of the Smash community did not like it. And when the vast majority of competitive players these days are playing Melee or PM, that's a completely fair statement, no?

"The Smash community" implies that he's talking about any and all SSB fans. He said that the majority of Smash players disliked Brawl. That simply is not true.

 

[pizzapie7]

"The Smash community" implies that he's talking about any and all SSB fans. He said that the majority of Smash players disliked Brawl. That simply is not true.

Different definitions of community. I'm playing F-Zero GX right now but I wouldn't say I'm a part of the F-Zero community. This is getting a bit off-topic. I'll make sure to preface all mentions of community with either "internet" or "competitive" solely for your benefit though.