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Why y'all aren't getting much better

Battlecow

Play to Win
Joined
May 19, 2009
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Chicago
after playing someone who will remain nameless today I realized the real reason y ppl dont get better. Its because they would rather camp at the end of the stage like a scared little girl and try to do bootleg gimp combos rather than learn how how to approach and learn real combos and advanced techniques.
wat a joke, ur not gonna get the win, ur not better than me, ur a scrub, y dont u just quit this game
ur awful, u have no kind of skill, u camp and ur pathetic. wat does using kirby have to do with sitting at the end of the stage for 10 minutes. surri please change these matches to dreamland only or i will have to drop out. dont give him the win
Why, Novakane, if I didn't know any better, I'd say that u mad.
 

Blue Yoshi

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
A few days ago, I played against someone who, for the first few matches, played normally, but kept falling for very basic stuff. The third or so game, he went Kirby (I was Luigi), and he hid in the Hyrule tent and spammed up-tilt. I teased him and approached close to him, and jumped away, and as I thought, he used a few up-tilts. I instead just waited up top and spammed fireballs, waiting for him to do something instead.

But yeah... some people play to win, but use the most basic strats for it, gaining no skill, like the guy I played. The ones that want to get better are the ones that will get better.

I guess what I'm saying is that from what I noticed, there are either people who play solely to win, or play to learn/improve. (You know what I mean)



Edit: Just played against someone who spammed nothing but backthrow off stage to down air (he used DK and Samus... yes, spammed grabs with Samus). After losing two games to me (the second being a 4-stock Falcon vs Samus), he kicked me, and waited for someone else to join. Just shows you that some people only care about winning with the easiest strat just to feel good about themselves, and won't improve at all.
 

King Funk

Int. Croc. Alligator
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
2,972
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
As a player who uses mostly Falcon, I've had many painful moments feeling helpless in some matchups, against some tactics, etc. I've also of course then had many moments where I thought that picking another character would be a solution to my problems, such as using Pikachu vs Kirby. But things just went a lot worse for me when I did so (and I never got much out of it), so instead I just came back to Falcon and tried to do the best I can, no matter the odds. And I ended up learning a TON not only about the Kirby matchup but also about playing patient, in a calm and controlled way, which was something quite rewarding to me.
 

B Link

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
1,579
Location
Toronto, Ontario
I don't see why you expect this clarity to spark interest, anyways.
Surri replied to your first statement with what I meant there so I'll just talk about this.

The big topic of this thread is why people aren't getting better, than it came to why people don't want to get better.

I personally got interested in playing smash bros. more seriously because I wanted to be better than other people at it and since there was a scene of other good players. You can say that it was 'just for fun' but really if you took away the good players at the start, if you took away the recorded matches on youtube, I wouldn't have played it as seriously as I did.

I think it should be obvious why it would spark interest as it related to any competitive endeavor. Anything competitive can gain more interest when it is clear who they have to be better than.

I should also change what I meant from my last post because I don't think I should go in that direction. What I meant was there should be more clarification as to who the top players are OUTSIDE of the top players. Maybe this will be done in defining a 'B' Tier in sheer's thread but I doubt it. They did this in EGX forums a while back with the ladder and it died. I think the only way this can be done is more tournaments.

I'm not saying that this SHOULD be done or that it would be better for the community yadada. I'm not saying it would be accurate either (a whole online thread argument there). ALL I'm saying is that if we can't get that done then expect people to not want to get better for the rest of the years to come. This in reply mostly to smoke2jointz who was wondering why people are still stuck at the same level.
 

Battlecow

Play to Win
Joined
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Chicago
As a player who uses mostly Falcon, I've had many painful moments feeling helpless in some matchups, against some tactics, etc. I've also of course then had many moments where I thought that picking another character would be a solution to my problems, such as using Pikachu vs Kirby. But things just went a lot worse for me when I did so (and I never got much out of it), so instead I just came back to Falcon and tried to do the best I can, no matter the odds. And I ended up learning a TON not only about the Kirby matchup but also about playing patient, in a calm and controlled way, which was something quite rewarding to me.
I wasn't playing Doug. I pulled DK as a joke.
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
Fair enough, B Link. I kind of like the level I'm at now, so yeah.

I would say B Tier players are slightly above average, not top players, but ok. Perhaps it's simply that when I've attained the upmost round, I then unto the ladder turn my back, look in the clouds, and scorn the base degrees by which I did ascend.
 

Battlecow

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Fair enough, B Link. I kind of like the level I'm at now, so yeah.

I would say B Tier players are slightly above average, not top players, but ok. Perhaps it's simply that when I've attained the upmost round, I then unto the ladder turn my back, look in the clouds, and scorn the base degrees by which I did ascend.
The brags need work there. You were rolling with that world-conquering thing, but this is 2/10 at best. I'd be happy to give you helpful tips, if you require them.
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
The brags need work there. You were rolling with that world-conquering thing, but this is 2/10 at best. I'd be happy to give you helpful tips, if you require them.
It was a reference to Julius Caesar, by William Shakespeare. Act II, scene i, lines 24-27.
 

Battlecow

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I know that, of course. What, do you think I'm some kind of heathen? I was just pointing out that it really should be "utmost." Misquoting the bard is a big no-no.
*desperately tries to cover up how hard he just got pwned* HAIL STAR KING!
 

The Star King

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Messages
9,681
I know that, of course. What, do you think I'm some kind of heathen? I was just pointing out that it really should be "utmost." Misquoting the bard is a big no-no.
*desperately tries to cover up how hard he just got pwned* HAIL STAR KING!
Nah, it's "upmost", go look it up.

ALL GLORY TO THE STAR KING!
 

Battlecow

Play to Win
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Nah, it's "upmost", go look it up.

ALL GLORY TO THE STAR KING!
Just looked it up, bro. "Utmost."

Version difference maybe? I'm just dealing with my Borders edition Complete Works

Guys, pretty sure Timon of Athens>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Macbeth + R&J + everything else ever.

Also, here are my new top 5 favorite songs.
 

Fynal

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
240
and he didn't write any of those plays anyway
apparently the first person to suggest this and be taken seriously was a woman who had grown up in the woods with her family, cut off from civilization, and who suffered severe mental trauma when her entire family died. She subsequently became convinced that she was a relative of one of Shakespeare's contemporaries, last name was Bacon i think. She got attention and funding for it, and traveled around england to various shakespeare-related sites, refusing to speak to experts interested in her ideas and instead absorbing the intellectual atmosphere of the places by some form of osmosis.

Conclusion: :bacon: > all
 

dock

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
14
As soon as my gaze fell upon this fetid topic, a response had already been cocked to fire at my fingertips:

Why are we all not getting much better? Well, see here, Captain Obvious, it's because most of us have already reached the point at which we no longer desire to improve ourselves, A.K.A. the point at which any further improvement we attempt to drive only affects our overall skill marginally.

I coin this the "demoralization barrier."
 

ciaza

Smash Prodigy
Premium
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Aug 12, 2009
Messages
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Australia
Can anyone truthfully say they have no desire to improve themselves? Even at the highest level of play I would say you still want to get better. There's always more to learn and so long as that fact exists I think people will try to strive to get better. Unless of course the obvious happens and you get bored with the game.
 

Blade689

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
285
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Emeryville
no, I know of people who enact the same cycles of play no matter how many games are played. Self improvement comes from testing your bounds, so if you stick to the same old ruite and believe that it will be an effective payout over time, you won't improve at all. You'll get better at what you do, but you'll never get better to the point of improving your understanding or perspective on the game..... which can almost grow limitlessly if you apply yourself.
 

SilentSlayers

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Messages
328
Simply put: Some people will try and become better, and some won't. For whatever, reason, who cares. The point remains, the people who try to become better will have a higher chance of becoming better than one who does not.
 

Blue Yoshi

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Jake is definitely dropping Yoshi
Unless you play a game where a set win pattern exists and is known, then there is always room for improvement.

By game with set win pattern existing, I mean games like tic-tac-toe (everyone knows how not to lose), checkers (the game has been solved, so there is a limit to how "good" you can be). Games like chess, a best route solution has not been discovered, so until it has, there is always room for improvement.

I guess it's hard to compare this to a game like smash bros, but the point still stands. I guess what I am trying to say is that since there is no 100% win pattern in smash 64, then there is still room for improvement for everyone.
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
This is true.

In the version we solved, the rules were:

-If you get 5 or over, that hand is dead.
-You can only clap if the two numbers on each hand end up being different (e.g. you can't clap one and three -> three and one)
-You CAN revive a hand.

Those are the rules that get changed the most I think.
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
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Sayonara Memories
That's the version that got the most objections in my time at school.

'WTF YOU CAN'T REVIVE A HAND'
'YOU CAN'T RESPREAD YOUR FINGERS'

these same people advocated hitting yourself when you only had 1 hand with 1 finger left >_>
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
these same people advocated hitting yourself when you only had 1 hand with 1 finger left >_>
Yeah, if that's allowed the game will never end unless somebody is really stupid.

IDK, nobody really objected. Those were the "standard" rules in my elementary school.
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
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Sayonara Memories
i remember playing 4-square, we played so much when someone got to king they just said 'my rules' and we all knew what was up

steals and rebounds, too good
 

Battlecow

Play to Win
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May 19, 2009
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Chicago
A commie?!

I never did trust that Stanford economics program. Give a kid a minor in that place and you might as well hand him an El Che T-shirt and a Little Red Book.
 
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