Why y'all aren't getting much better

[Battlecow]

after playing someone who will remain nameless today I realized the real reason y ppl dont get better. Its because they would rather camp at the end of the stage like a scared little girl and try to do bootleg gimp combos rather than learn how how to approach and learn real combos and advanced techniques.

wat a joke, ur not gonna get the win, ur not better than me, ur a scrub, y dont u just quit this game

ur awful, u have no kind of skill, u camp and ur pathetic. wat does using kirby have to do with sitting at the end of the stage for 10 minutes. surri please change these matches to dreamland only or i will have to drop out. dont give him the win

Why, Novakane, if I didn't know any better, I'd say that u mad.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

A few days ago, I played against someone who, for the first few matches, played normally, but kept falling for very basic stuff. The third or so game, he went Kirby (I was Luigi), and he hid in the Hyrule tent and spammed up-tilt. I teased him and approached close to him, and jumped away, and as I thought, he used a few up-tilts. I instead just waited up top and spammed fireballs, waiting for him to do something instead.

But yeah... some people play to win, but use the most basic strats for it, gaining no skill, like the guy I played. The ones that want to get better are the ones that will get better.

I guess what I'm saying is that from what I noticed, there are either people who play solely to win, or play to learn/improve. (You know what I mean)



Edit: Just played against someone who spammed nothing but backthrow off stage to down air (he used DK and Samus... yes, spammed grabs with Samus). After losing two games to me (the second being a 4-stock Falcon vs Samus), he kicked me, and waited for someone else to join. Just shows you that some people only care about winning with the easiest strat just to feel good about themselves, and won't improve at all.

 

[King Funk]

As a player who uses mostly Falcon, I've had many painful moments feeling helpless in some matchups, against some tactics, etc. I've also of course then had many moments where I thought that picking another character would be a solution to my problems, such as using Pikachu vs Kirby. But things just went a lot worse for me when I did so (and I never got much out of it), so instead I just came back to Falcon and tried to do the best I can, no matter the odds. And I ended up learning a TON not only about the Kirby matchup but also about playing patient, in a calm and controlled way, which was something quite rewarding to me.

 

[B Link]

I don't see why you expect this clarity to spark interest, anyways.

Surri replied to your first statement with what I meant there so I'll just talk about this.

The big topic of this thread is why people aren't getting better, than it came to why people don't want to get better.

I personally got interested in playing smash bros. more seriously because I wanted to be better than other people at it and since there was a scene of other good players. You can say that it was 'just for fun' but really if you took away the good players at the start, if you took away the recorded matches on youtube, I wouldn't have played it as seriously as I did.

I think it should be obvious why it would spark interest as it related to any competitive endeavor. Anything competitive can gain more interest when it is clear who they have to be better than.

I should also change what I meant from my last post because I don't think I should go in that direction. What I meant was there should be more clarification as to who the top players are OUTSIDE of the top players. Maybe this will be done in defining a 'B' Tier in sheer's thread but I doubt it. They did this in EGX forums a while back with the ladder and it died. I think the only way this can be done is more tournaments.

I'm not saying that this SHOULD be done or that it would be better for the community yadada. I'm not saying it would be accurate either (a whole online thread argument there). ALL I'm saying is that if we can't get that done then expect people to not want to get better for the rest of the years to come. This in reply mostly to smoke2jointz who was wondering why people are still stuck at the same level.

 

[Battlecow]

As a player who uses mostly Falcon, I've had many painful moments feeling helpless in some matchups, against some tactics, etc. I've also of course then had many moments where I thought that picking another character would be a solution to my problems, such as using Pikachu vs Kirby. But things just went a lot worse for me when I did so (and I never got much out of it), so instead I just came back to Falcon and tried to do the best I can, no matter the odds. And I ended up learning a TON not only about the Kirby matchup but also about playing patient, in a calm and controlled way, which was something quite rewarding to me.

I wasn't playing Doug. I pulled DK as a joke.

 

[NovaSmash]

Blue Yoshi edit: unnecessary post

 

[The Star King]

Fair enough, B Link. I kind of like the level I'm at now, so yeah.

I would say B Tier players are slightly above average, not top players, but ok. Perhaps it's simply that when I've attained the upmost round, I then unto the ladder turn my back, look in the clouds, and scorn the base degrees by which I did ascend.

 

[Battlecow]

Fair enough, B Link. I kind of like the level I'm at now, so yeah.

I would say B Tier players are slightly above average, not top players, but ok. Perhaps it's simply that when I've attained the upmost round, I then unto the ladder turn my back, look in the clouds, and scorn the base degrees by which I did ascend.

The brags need work there. You were rolling with that world-conquering thing, but this is 2/10 at best. I'd be happy to give you helpful tips, if you require them.

 

[B Link]

And you play keyboard too right? What kind of kb do you use lol, I've been playing kb for years.

 

[The Star King]

The brags need work there. You were rolling with that world-conquering thing, but this is 2/10 at best. I'd be happy to give you helpful tips, if you require them.

It was a reference to Julius Caesar, by William Shakespeare. Act II, scene i, lines 24-27.

 

[B Link]

I'm currently reading tempest...my shakespeare log:

- romeo x 2
- mid-summer
- macbeth
- hamlet

 

[Battlecow]

I know that, of course. What, do you think I'm some kind of heathen? I was just pointing out that it really should be "utmost." Misquoting the bard is a big no-no.

Spoiler

*desperately tries to cover up how hard he just got pwned* HAIL STAR KING!

 

[ballin4life]

Shak-spear is overrated.

and he didn't write any of those plays anyway

 

[King Funk]

Shak-spear is overrated.

and he didn't write any of those plays anyway

Haters gonna hate.

 

[The Star King]

I know that, of course. What, do you think I'm some kind of heathen? I was just pointing out that it really should be "utmost." Misquoting the bard is a big no-no.

Spoiler

*desperately tries to cover up how hard he just got pwned* HAIL STAR KING!

Nah, it's "upmost", go look it up.

ALL GLORY TO THE STAR KING!

 

[asianaussie]

go back to studying, young'un

 

[ballin4life]

Haters gonna hate.

prithee sir, who dost thou call a hater?

i bite my thumb at thee sir

 

[The Star King]

prithee sir, who dost thou call a hater?

i bite my thumb at thee sir

Do you quarrel, sir? If you do, sir, I am for you: I serve as good a man as you.

 

[asianaussie]

Liar and slave!

macbeth > r&j

 

[Battlecow]

Nah, it's "upmost", go look it up.

ALL GLORY TO THE STAR KING!

Just looked it up, bro. "Utmost."

Version difference maybe? I'm just dealing with my Borders edition Complete Works

Guys, pretty sure Timon of Athens>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Macbeth + R&J + everything else ever.

Also, here are my new top 5 favorite songs.

 

[Fynal]

and he didn't write any of those plays anyway

apparently the first person to suggest this and be taken seriously was a woman who had grown up in the woods with her family, cut off from civilization, and who suffered severe mental trauma when her entire family died. She subsequently became convinced that she was a relative of one of Shakespeare's contemporaries, last name was Bacon i think. She got attention and funding for it, and traveled around england to various shakespeare-related sites, refusing to speak to experts interested in her ideas and instead absorbing the intellectual atmosphere of the places by some form of osmosis.

Conclusion: :bacon: > all

 

[The Star King]

Just looked it up, bro. "Utmost."

Version difference maybe? I'm just dealing with my Borders edition Complete Works

I was able to find both "upmost" and "utmost" online so version difference I guess.

 

[dock]

As soon as my gaze fell upon this fetid topic, a response had already been cocked to fire at my fingertips:

Why are we all not getting much better? Well, see here, Captain Obvious, it's because most of us have already reached the point at which we no longer desire to improve ourselves, A.K.A. the point at which any further improvement we attempt to drive only affects our overall skill marginally.

I coin this the "demoralization barrier."

 

[ciaza]

Can anyone truthfully say they have no desire to improve themselves? Even at the highest level of play I would say you still want to get better. There's always more to learn and so long as that fact exists I think people will try to strive to get better. Unless of course the obvious happens and you get bored with the game.

 

[Blade689]

no, I know of people who enact the same cycles of play no matter how many games are played. Self improvement comes from testing your bounds, so if you stick to the same old ruite and believe that it will be an effective payout over time, you won't improve at all. You'll get better at what you do, but you'll never get better to the point of improving your understanding or perspective on the game..... which can almost grow limitlessly if you apply yourself.

 

[SilentSlayers]

Simply put: Some people will try and become better, and some won't. For whatever, reason, who cares. The point remains, the people who try to become better will have a higher chance of becoming better than one who does not.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Unless you play a game where a set win pattern exists and is known, then there is always room for improvement.

By game with set win pattern existing, I mean games like tic-tac-toe (everyone knows how not to lose), checkers (the game has been solved, so there is a limit to how "good" you can be). Games like chess, a best route solution has not been discovered, so until it has, there is always room for improvement.

I guess it's hard to compare this to a game like smash bros, but the point still stands. I guess what I am trying to say is that since there is no 100% win pattern in smash 64, then there is still room for improvement for everyone.

 

[The Star King]

I remember my 5th grade class "solved" chopsticks. Whoever goes second wins.

Good times.

 

[Battlecow]

I never lose at chopsticks. Get at me. I'll go first.

 

[asianaussie]

depends on the rules you're playing by

so many ******** variations

 

[The Star King]

This is true.

In the version we solved, the rules were:

-If you get 5 or over, that hand is dead.
-You can only clap if the two numbers on each hand end up being different (e.g. you can't clap one and three -> three and one)
-You CAN revive a hand.

Those are the rules that get changed the most I think.

 

[asianaussie]

That's the version that got the most objections in my time at school.

'WTF YOU CAN'T REVIVE A HAND'
'YOU CAN'T RESPREAD YOUR FINGERS'

these same people advocated hitting yourself when you only had 1 hand with 1 finger left >_>

 

[The Star King]

these same people advocated hitting yourself when you only had 1 hand with 1 finger left >_>

Yeah, if that's allowed the game will never end unless somebody is really stupid.

IDK, nobody really objected. Those were the "standard" rules in my elementary school.

 

[asianaussie]

i remember playing 4-square, we played so much when someone got to king they just said 'my rules' and we all knew what was up

steals and rebounds, too good

 

[sharksquail]

I think that i'm getting better.

4square= amazingness

 

[ballin4life]

4square is dumb it's all about basEketball

 

[asianaussie]

bet you're just mad cuz you can't hit back skimmers

 

[The Star King]

ballin4life is a commie don't listen to him

/insidejokes

 

[Battlecow]

A commie?!

I never did trust that Stanford economics program. Give a kid a minor in that place and you might as well hand him an El Che T-shirt and a Little Red Book.

 

[ballin4life]

lulz good memory there on econ minor

also it's pretty funny on our course rank website people were mad cuz the intro to econ class was "too conservative"