Why the Melee/Brawl Debate is Meaningless

[Jack Kieser]

Eh, even that is debatable. I mean, in the grand scheme, Brawl is by far WAY more defensive than Melee ever was. That isn't to say that yo can't play offensively, though; you just can't play the same kind of offense in Brawl that you could in Melee. Lucario is a great example of this. To be honest, character selection has a lot to do with it, too. Obviously, Snake and Meta Knight are allowing people to play offensively, and there are other characters that can do so to a lesser extent, like Wario.

Basically, what we can really agree on is that Brawl is more defensive than Melee is, but the extent to which a match will be dominated by defensive play is also very dependent on character selection.

 

[SinkingHigher]

While I am whole heartedly against the Melee/Brawl thing, I have to say...

Total overkill on the rhetoric.

 

[Skler]

People never argue against Brawl having way less diversity in playstyles. In Melee you can play any character offensive, defensive, reactionary, etc. and still have a pretty good chance. In Brawl you either pick a broken character (which you don't need to camp with if your opponent doesn't pick a broken character), camp, or get *****.

 

[Eggm]

Brawls awful. If the debate brings even one person on the fence to melee its not meaningless.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Seriously, the community would just be better...A WHOLE LOT BETTER...If Brawl didn't exist. >_>

Lazy Brawl players.

I just went to a recent teams tourney for Brawl and guess what? Some matches had THREE META KNIGHTS IN THEM.

Seriously, do you people ENJOY going that far to play Brawl instead of Melee? Is Tornado Spamming tagged along with Down-Smash really THAT fun? Camping and playing like a shield camping *****?

If you don't play Snake or MK there's a good chance you won't win a tourney. I will NOT change my perspective on that. I alone just made it out of pools just RELYING ON SNAKE'S TILTS. My partner didn't even play Smash, for Christ's sakes.

It's true. People WOULD have more fun getting better and playing competitive Melee. They just haven't seen the real truth of things or are blinded by ignorance/propaganda from ******* from 4chan or GameFAQs.

If everyone WHO PLAYED SMASH COMPETITIVELY played Melee, there would be no debate. :]

 

[Proud_Smash_N00b]

Seriously, the community would just be better...A WHOLE LOT BETTER...If Brawl didn't exist. >_>

Lazy Brawl players.

QFT but if Melee 2.0 was released instead of Brawl, there would be no debate in the first place

 

[MarKO X]

Very well stated, I completely agree. I like how no one has tried to refute your statement, cause they can't. Hopefully Brawl will develop past it's current phase of campyness, but with the amount of people studying this game on a daily basis (more so than ever existed in Melee), it's hard to believe that we haven't found everything yet.

No one has tried to refute the statement because he's been refuted many many times over. I can post the same **** over and over again to the point where no one tried to refute it either. No disrespect to HochiMing, his posts are very well thought out... but I've stopped debating a while back because, well, the debate of Brawl vs. Melee is meaningless. And at this point, the debate about debating about Brawl vs. Melee is kinda meaningless as well... let's just play.

 

[Wrath`]

Seriously, the community would just be better...A WHOLE LOT BETTER...If Brawl didn't exist. >_>

Change Brawl to "People like KosukeKGA" Why can't we play what we like without others looking down at otheres, before brawl did 64smasher players look down upon melee players and say "HA lazy melee player"? No, so why should melee people look down at brawl people and say "HA n00by brawl people". It just seem like an imiture way to release anger, I know a good amoutn of people on these forums who hate brawl, but they respect brawl player, cause they know the can play melee any time, and are not forced to play brawl.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Eh, even that is debatable. I mean, in the grand scheme, Brawl is by far WAY more defensive than Melee ever was. That isn't to say that yo can't play offensively, though; you just can't play the same kind of offense in Brawl that you could in Melee. Lucario is a great example of this. To be honest, character selection has a lot to do with it, too. Obviously, Snake and Meta Knight are allowing people to play offensively, and there are other characters that can do so to a lesser extent, like Wario.

Basically, what we can really agree on is that Brawl is more defensive than Melee is, but the extent to which a match will be dominated by defensive play is also very dependent on character selection.

That statement is unfounded, like i said... play me or try to place well in a major tournie without using the all defensive play style. Trust me, ive been playing these games for a long time, i know wtf im talking about lol. Prove to me that you can be an offensive/stylish player in brawl by winning and beating good people at the game and i will start to change my views....

STOP MAKING STATEMENTS JUST FOR THE SAKE OF MAKING STATEMENTS. If you don't have a legit answer to my points then... i don't see what the point is. I addressed char specifics being that if your char clearly overpowers the weaker one, you can obviously play offensive in that instance.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Change Brawl to "People like KosukeKGA" Why can't we play what we like without others looking down at otheres, before brawl did 64smasher players look down upon melee players and say "HA lazy melee player"? No, so why should melee people look down at brawl people and say "HA n00by brawl people". It just seem like an imiture way to release anger, I know a good amoutn of people on these forums who hate brawl, but they respect brawl player, cause they know the can play melee any time, and are not forced to play brawl.

Do you even play Brawl competitively? >_> My post doesn't apply to casuals. If you go to tourneys, then realize the truth. If not, then please, excuse yourself.

And I never said I hated Brawl. Melee is just WAY better COMPETITIVELY.

 

[Wrath`]

Do you even play Brawl competitively? >_> My post doesn't apply to casuals. If you go to tourneys, then realize the truth.

I played melee competitively(and still do if there is a local tourny) And I play brawl competitively, but then again in the Broom Tioga area I live in, we dont camp and stuff, we play brawl like we did melee, minus the wavedashin and L-canciling. And it was good compition and it was fun.

 

[Professor Pro]

You cant compare two different smash games to two different paintings as it goes way more deeper then that and many point are missed out, I get the main point of it but im sorry it just doesnt work like that.

 

[KosukeKGA]

I played melee competitively(and still do if there is a local tourny) And I play brawl competitively, but then again in the Broom Tioga area I live in, we dont camp and stuff, we play brawl like we did melee, minus the wavedashin and L-canciling. And it was good compition and it was fun.

Okay, well to address your point.

There was barely any 64 scene. So I don't see how 64 players could look down upon Melee players. THIS SITE WAS BUILT UP THROUGH PROGRESSION UPON COMPETITIVE MELEE.

 

[L__]

You guys, why are we comparing any game to Melee this fast? (the standards are too high to be compared to a developing metagame as far as a couple months)

Anyways, I do not dislike Brawl as a game, just its fanbase.

 

[Wrath`]

Okay, well to address your point.

There was barely any 64 scene. So I don't see how 64 players could look down upon Melee players. THIS SITE WAS BUILT UP THROUGH PROGRESSION UPON COMPETITIVE MELEE.

so now that brawl has come into play, do you feel "pushed" out of the scene?, we can build SWF upon more than one pillar(melee),

 

[KosukeKGA]

Yes. An extremely gay pillar.

We need the pillar of **** once more (Melee).
---
L, I too hate the ****ing Brawl fanbase. Not the game, but the IGNORANT PLAYERS. >_>

 

[Wrath`]

Yes. An extremely gay pillar.

We need the pillar of **** once more (Melee).
---
L, I too hate the ****ing Brawl fanbase. Not the game, but the IGNORANT PLAYERS. >_>

well a coment like that in a brawlers eyes, well that would make you look ignorant, so I guess we all find each other ignorant, ALIRIGHT!!!!!!

I like neutrality, I stick with it.

 

[KosukeKGA]

I don't see how I'm the ignorant one.

<_<

 

[L__]

Man, that's my new sig quote.

I don't hate Brawl, just the idiotic fanbase.

L, I to hate the Brawl fanbase. Not the game, but the IGNORANT PLAYERS. >_>

 

[-Big_-Blue 9]

Those sigs are easy on the eyes L.

 

[cjrocker]

Seriously, the community would just be better...A WHOLE LOT BETTER...If Brawl didn't exist. >_>
Lazy Brawl players.
I just went to a recent teams tourney for Brawl and guess what? Some matches had THREE META KNIGHTS IN THEM.
Seriously, do you people ENJOY going that far to play Brawl instead of Melee? Is Tornado Spamming tagged along with Down-Smash really THAT fun? Camping and playing like a shield camping *****?
If you don't play Snake or MK there's a good chance you won't win a tourney. I will NOT change my perspective on that. I alone just made it out of pools just RELYING ON SNAKE'S TILTS. My partner didn't even play Smash, for Christ's sakes.
It's true. People WOULD have more fun getting better and playing competitive Melee. They just haven't seen the real truth of things or are blinded by ignorance/propaganda from ******* from 4chan or GameFAQs.
If everyone WHO PLAYED SMASH COMPETITIVELY played Melee, there would be no debate. :]

Just curious, what are you trying to prove with posts like these?

 

[Rhubarbo]

Just curious, what are you trying to prove with posts like these?

Basically, Brawl is taking people away from Melee. When I came to this forum, it was as a noob seeking idle Brawl roster chatting back in summer 07. Since just talking about Brawl wasn't too engrossing, I started to learn tactics here, get better at the game myself, and basically started to play at a competitive level.

People during the Melee era could have stumbled upon this board by accident and getting involved in Melee (instead of 64, as Melee was the latest, and in this case the greatest). Now however, random noobs come here and stumble upon Brawl instead as it is the latest. Since these players have not experience a high level of play, they will pique in Brawl and think that Melee had a similar high level of play.

Try getting these players to play an older game! The point of his comment was that Brawl is attracting newcomers to the scene because it is the latest addition to the series...Newcomers that otherwise would have turned to (the better) Melee.

 

[Cirno]

Questions with "better" or "more" can only really give us subjective answers seeing as each person is only giving their own opinions despite the amount of reasoning or facts they have backing said opinion.

I agree in thinking it's meaningless but, for the reason that the most likely outcome we could get from 'proving' Melee is better or more competitive or Brawl is better/more competitive, is having someone tell us they don't care.

 

[L__]

Just curious, what are you trying to prove with posts like these?

That there is a cesspool of people that play a game competitively; as poorly as it is. (competitively.)

 

[KosukeKGA]

Questions with "better" or "more" can only really give us subjective answers seeing as each person is only giving their own opinions despite the amount of reasoning or facts they have backing said opinion.

I agree in thinking it's meaningless but, for the reason that the most likely outcome we could get from 'proving' Melee is better or more competitive or Brawl is better/more competitive, is having someone tell us they don't care.

No.

It's to convert people to the Melee scene.

Duh.

 

[Cirno]

The most likely outcome?

I don't agree.

If this was the case, this debate would have ended when someone mentioned Brawl doesn't have L-canceling or wavedashing.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

so sorry for bein a barlwboards noob
but what is tl;dr?

 

[KosukeKGA]

Anything to help the Melee scene will do. I don't care if you do, so please, just be quiet. >_>

If you don't care then it doesn't pertain to you. There are a big handful of smashers who went back to Melee after realizing Brawl's faults.

IDC about this dumb debate. I care about getting more Melee players. *expectsadosomethingelsebesidesdebating*

 

[L__]

Too long; didn't read.

HA KOSUKE YOU WERE WRONG!

...wait a minute...

 

[Grunt]

so sorry for bein a barlwboards noob
but what is tl;dr?

Too long ; Didn't read.

 

[L__]

Too long ; Didn't read.

HA GOT TO IT FIRST.

 

[Air Marshall Fiddy Cent]

10chars, mah *******

 

[Cirno]

Anything to help the Melee scene will do. I don't care if you do, so please, just be quiet. >_>

If you don't care then it doesn't pertain to you. There are a big handful of smashers who went back to Melee after realizing Brawl's faults.

IDC about this dumb debate. I care about getting more Melee players. *expectsadosomethingelsebesidesdebating*

I guess I just don't understand how any of this is helping Melee. I don't see any pro-Brawl converting, or even agreeing.


I never said I didn't care either, all I said was that more than likely people(the one's you're trying to turn into Melee players) won't care if you or anyone else 'proves' Melee/Brawl is better/more competitive than the other.

I think there are better ways to go about getting more Melee players, and this (not Jack's but Melee vs Brawl)debate is only hurting our community.

 

[znintendotaku]

dude in 3 years i garauntee there will only be a handfull of melee players left... especially since the banning of GC controllers...
i got bored of melee in the first year i had it, no it wasnt because i sucked i actually got good with y.link (i place 6th of 15 in a city-wide tourney once) but once you beat the game and got everything it just became SUPER boring and frustrating to the point where you dont want to play anymore,
so i didnt... i gave my disk to my older brother and gradually started to suck again...
then brawl came out and it played differantly so me and all my friends had to start anew, and i love it (except tripping)...
but IMO brawl is taking slower to master than melee thats why im not into the competitive tourny scene yet...

dont get me wrong i love melee, that game is awsome but it got boring too quickly... im not going to say Brawl>melee because thats like saying Smash>Smash but i personally prefer Brawl...

↑↑OPINION↑↑

 

[L__]

I guess I just don't understand how any of this is helping Melee. I don't see any pro-Brawl converting, or even agreeing.


I never said I didn't care either, all I said was that more than likely people(the one's you're trying to turn into Melee players) won't care if you or anyone else 'proves' Melee/Brawl is better/more competitive than the other.

I think there are better ways to go about getting more Melee players, and this (not Jack's but Melee vs Brawl)debate is only hurting our community.

Lol, read the topic of the thread.

dude in 3 years i garauntee there will only be a handfull of melee players left... especially since the banning of GC controllers...

OMG...that's only in America...

 

[Cirno]

Lol, read the topic of the thread.

Quote the wrong person?

Or didn't read my previous posts?

That sentence has no bearing on anything I've said.

 

[znintendotaku]

OMG...that's only in America...

ok but do you think melee is still popular anywhere else...everyone is moving on...and besides, i said ESPECIALLY because of that, thats not the only reason just one....

 

[L__]

ok but do you think melee is still popular anywhere else...everyone is moving on...and besides, i said ESPECIALLY because of that, thats not the only reason just one....

Americans can easily buy GCN Controllers like they've done with everything we've received from China...

meh, I'm not into debating right now, I'll post a good argument in the morning znintendo

 

[KosukeKGA]

I think there are better ways to go about getting more Melee players

I called it.
---
It is helping. No if's and but's about it. It IS helping. I've converted a few people I know outside of SWF. The Melee players are slowly rising. Believe me. Your observations are wrong so yes, you don't understand. >_>
---
Znintendo >_> I'm pretty ****ing sure about 98% smashers, Brawl or Melee, use a GCN controller.

 

[L__]

I guess I just don't understand how any of this is helping Melee. I don't see any pro-Brawl converting, or even agreeing.

Love how the title relates to that