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This isnt a personal attack, but your reasoning is bad.
There were 3 and a half hours of Smash 4 to the ~10 hours of Melee streamed on Finals day. Melee doubles, Melee singles, and bad TO choices are what really held up the tournament (you know, besides losing an entire day). Smash 4 singles top 8 were ready to go around noon. Top 8 for Smash 4 did take too long, but it wasnt the main reason why bracket was behind
It could just be moved.
I just want to foreward this as I mean none of this in an offensive fashion, I'm not trying to troll, or insult anyone. These are my feelings, and the feeling of many that I've spoken to. I reiterate, I don't hate Smash 4. I don't care about Smash 4 at all. I don't care who wins, I don't care who loses, I don't care if it exists or if it falls off the face of the planet. So as somebody who is thoroughly neutral on it, I will furthermore explain my position.
I don't feel like arguing the other points because we will be going around in circles for hours.
I dont think anyone was ok with how Apex went, where you send your frustrations is the issue. Fair or not the fate of the smash titles are tied to each other. Maybe that sucks to some extent for both sides (on the newer games side because certain parts of melee culture are relentlessly harmful to the other games) but its just reality and also does have benefits. Separating the games and sending melee back to grassroots, all will eventually hit a brick wall in growth. Community leaders understand this and are trying to build melee into a viable sport that competitors, TO's, and content producers can make a significant living from and produce more content for you to enjoy. The fact that some work against them towards this goal is a slap in the face to those who are bringing you such enjoyment.
Smash 4 had 96k viewers and 800 attendants which is a ridiculously large amount of people to suggest go screw off. Amsa was the coolest thing about melee top 8 though, imo he was more interesting then the rest of the top 8 in melee. Side note, Grand Finals itself of smash 4 actually had more viewers, Melee's top 8 peaked at a higher number (leffen vs mango $1000 MM). Since I know there will be criticism about it being Grand Finals, 10k viewers did drop after Smash 4 grand finals (yes I know regardless theres always qualifier when it comes to numbers, something others should keep in mind too). Pot bonuses for both games were the same.
Most of this is opinionated or has nothing to do with game quality, opinionated statements arent useful. If youre talking about the game itself in some objective sense this is something Im willing to bet would not stand if you had to argue your overall point. Melee is a great game and certainly has its strengths, as I stated earlier each game focuses on a different skillset. But it certainly isnt more "competitive" then other smash titles. idc if players have an opinion on this one way or the other, but anyone trying to claim facts on this point as justifications for their behavior are speaking biasly out of their rear end. Keep in mind I've actually competed and researched the various titles as well as competitive theory and (to a lesser but still notable extent) game design so please be sure you can make informed points if you wish to defend them. Note that Im not bashing on melee, right now I play it more then anything else and enjoy it quite a bit. But there's a lot of delusion that runs along with meelitist culture (not everyone of course).
Right now there's only one Diddy player capable of winning big tournaments, and hes put ridiculously more effort into being the best player then even the second closest person. This isnt a 5 gods situation, Zero is the best player period, capable of winning with almost anyone. You didnt really spend a lot of time talking about smash 4 or Brawl, which leads me to believe its not something youre too informed on. Its better to just not comment in those cases usually. Also Metaknight was easy to succeed with at lower level, but at top level success varied between 5ish characters. I think MK has won one major in the last 2+ years.
I find that theres things I like and dislike about each game. I know some people just like the things they like and thats the end of it, I need more variety. Its hard for me to judge the game fully right now, but the character that I main is fun and viable and that alone is enough for me to enjoy it. The game's also in a discovery mode at the moment and I find that to be pretty fun and interesting in a way only a new game can have. In the end the game might not have as much depth as Id like, but its easier to have fun with in a lot of ways.
The fact is that Melee is a combination of both. If there wasn't so much depth,people's techniques wouldn't have changed so much. If you happened to have played the game for a while/even for a short bit, you can clearly tell the difference between a 2006-2007 game and a 2009 2010 game (or a 2010 game and etc.) The fact that techniques are still being discovered shows the level of depth.
They do differ drastically. It happens to be this that makes certain games more competitive. See below/above.
First off, if brawl had the deepest gameplay, it wouldn't have died. Here are the problems with the other smash games, and this is coming from someone who has played on a comp level in all of them, espec. 64.
I was around pre-doc. You are a good part wrong here. Brawl split the smash community and then a whole lot of fiascos regarding pot splitting and World EVO having items almost made the death of brawl, which almost made Melee die. People eventually went back and melee survived due to a few major tournament, thank you Alukard for RoM and others for other majors.
I understand this, I am giving it time. I just don't expect it to last nearly as much time, especially if customs are banned.
Lolthis
1. Melee isn't all technical play. what you said about smash 4 also applies to melee,
1. I know it isn't all technical play. It's more complex than that I didn't mean to imply that. I disagree with your notion that what I said about smash 4 applies to melee though.
Well the problem is that combination leads to a slower gameplay. Melee might have a fast ground speed but it's more the aerials, at least with the good majority of the cast that makes the game more competitive. I would like more aerials/ground moves to be safer on shield but they aren't
Okay. I see what you mean. My points still stand though - there's no reason to hate on a game just because it isn't like your favorite one, so the hatred towards Smash 4 is completely unwarranted. It's just people who were disappointed that Smash 4 wasn't another Melee or something akin to Melee, even if I see that expectation as completely illogical.
By all means, you should be expected to respect the game you enjoy most more. However, this doesnt make your objective comparisons correct.
Youre wrong. Many want to see smash 4 fail. Others, some unintentionally, have actively pushed towards this. Im an active member in both scenes, I know this better then most (though my scene is pretty cool in this regard).
Ill be critiquing your proof. The game changing over 15 years is more indicative that its taken 15 years for players to actually play the "real" game, and its possible we havent even gotten to that point at all yet. A deep metagame doesnt rely on its rules and difficult mechanics for constant change (that's complexity), but rather rps style yomi layers. While I make no judgement, some would even consider such complexity bad since it creates inaccessible in and out crowds in a fraternity like manner. I think this is true, but more personally think theres some strengths to this too.
"Simple" characters struggle in this game as do simple borp like styles. I say simple in quotes because by design the games mechanics are not simple, l-cancelling on its own makes the game needlessly complex. There's no real diversity in this regard and to be honest much of the melee community would hate it if there were (it also doesnt condemn the game or make it bad of course).
Brawl was at its peak in 6 months and then again 5 years later? Lol? Like if you dont know or understand the game thats fine but why say anything it just makes you seem bias. The story of Brawl's evolving metagame is actually very interesting.
Brawl was never in threat of dying after EVO or MLG. Neither was melee, which was generally cohosted with Brawl in SoCal and always had decent attendance. Maybe it was worse in other regions.
^^
Sorry for the odd welcome. uhhhh, welcome to Smashboards. In all honesty, just ignore this specific thread and unfollow it.
Don't be like that, this isn't a Smash 4 thread, its a discussion about the hatred that some melee players have over smash 4.
I dont think anyone from other communities is trying to have any game shunned. I understand sometimes there's limitations and things should be separate, but that wasnt supposed to be the case at apex. 64, Brawl, and Smash 4 were all upset if not moreso at the stream situation. Yeah it was lame you had to watch something you didnt want to and yes I understand why ppl were mad (scars blog made sense), but please also understand while it has an explanation the action itself is not cool and there are other better ways to deal with the issue.
