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Why should a competitive smasher play Mario?

FaceFaceMcFace

Smash Ace
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Mar 21, 2007
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The short answer is they shouldn’t.

A competitive smasher should pick the character that fits their style best while giving them the best possible chance of winning; simple as that. Mario generally does not give the player their most profitable and exceptional attempt at victory. He has short range, one semi-reliable kill move that is fairly easy to predict/read, his combos are easily broken by decent DI, he is overall easy to edgeguard, and his matchups against the most commonly played characters at tournaments are quite unfavorable.

So knowing all of this, why would a competitive smasher still play Mario? Certainly not just because they like him from his games, sure that may be a plus to them but not a prime reason. Picking a character in a fighting game simply because you like their persona will almost always result in limiting what you could achieve in the game; intelligent players know this.

They also would not pick him just because he is fun. This does not contribute a large amount to winning. Several of the better characters could most likely be found as fun to the player. What is it about our mustachioed friend that is fun to you? Do you enjoy freeform combos and techchasing? Captain Falcon does that quite well. Does his spacing make you feel comfortable? Fox has similar spacing and can more quickly adjust it to his liking. Do you have low inherent tech skill abilities even after training and experimenting for months or more? Sheik can help you there.

The point is that for every feature of Mario another character has a better and more effective version of it, excluding Mario’s mustache and Hooing and Wooing of course.

Do not limit yourself to the famous plumber just because you like his character, you find him fun, and you are used to his play style. Chances are that another character that you have not fully explored yet fits you better. Try to figure out every character that you can and experiment with them.

Okay, now that we have gone through all of this… why still play Mario?

1. No other character fits your play style as well as He does. No matter how much you play and practice the other characters available, none of them fit you nearly as well and do not work as effectively in matchups as Mario. (I mean really practice the other characters, not just give them a short try and give up.)

2. Having fun playing is more important to you than winning as much as possible. You don’t mind facing the endless amount of Foxes, Marths, Falcos and Sheiks. As long as you are Mario, the match stays enjoyable to you.

3. You like mustaches and funny noises.

That is why one should play as Mario over any other character; and is basically why I do. [Note: While this was true at the writing of this essay, I no longer play Mario.]

It is of course, even if all that applies to you, foolish to not have any strong secondaries. Do not take the concept of a main too seriously. For a better and more in-depth analysis on mains and secondaries, KevinM's thread "Tournament Level Bowser" is a good read and can be found here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=117755

Yes, this post is negative. I am not trying to keep people from playing as Mario though; I would love to see more Marios in the community. It is just that I would even more so rather see a higher number of smashers reaching their full potential in the game instead of limiting themselves by character choice. To those that still choose to play as Mr. Nintendo, I wish you the best of luck in your smash endeavors. May the ‘stache be with you.
 

Megavitamins

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Some people just play better with a certain character than others. Simple as that, even if that character isn't seen as good.
 

Speedsk8er

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Raleigh, NC
This made me want to pick Mario back up.

But the Ice Climbers have my heart in an infinite grab. ^_^
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
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Despite everything you have said (which I tell myself and why I also somewhat use Falco and Marth) I still feel more comfortable with mario and his versatility.
 

DP's Mario

Smash Ace
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Columbus, GA
No matter what...I'm stickin' with Mario.

I've been with him for waaaay too long for me to just try and expand my limits of smash & pick another character that could be better.

I see what you mean...Mario is just one of those characters that are good for "Beginners". But to me...I got a little bit more faith in Mario than that. He's the character for me, and I believe that.

Haha...Me & Mario are best friends! :laugh: I'm never gonna let him go! :chuckle:
 

FaceFaceMcFace

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I'm not saying that Mario is simply a beginner character DP, even if he is a common choice as such. I'm trying to help those that could otherwise be more effective with another character since they fit that person better. If Mario still fits you best after experimenting with other characters (which you should try doing over again as you develop... a character that may have been too difficult tech-wise before might be just right now.) then that is fine.

I main Mario not because I think he is the best character in the game (which he isn't.) , but because he fits my playstyle well and I have fun playing as him. If that is the case with you and anyone else, cool beans.
 

mario-man

Smash Lord
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Mario is underrated(even by some of his own users). End of story.
 

FaceFaceMcFace

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Mario is underrated(even by some of his own users). End of story.
Yes, and you certainly would know; what with you not having any tournament experience and as of the last time you told us your only human experience was against that of your little sister, who you reported to spam neutral A and B attacks.

I am not trying to make an attack on you as a person, and hey, it is possible that you have great potential as a smasher, but until you manage to get out there and compete in tournaments/against skilled players there are several points in the metagame that you will simply not be able to grasp. This is true of basically any player.

I know it is not entirely your fault that you have not done any competitive smashing, and I am sure that is frusterating; so I request that you do not lash out on me about that.

But until you do play tournament-level matches you will not be able to experience how easy it is for people to DI out of combos if they know how to fight mario, how easy it is for them to keep you from returning to the stage, and how hard it is for you to KO them at low percents. Mario is flawed, and I accept that when I select him during a tournament set. I know I will usually have to outplay my opponent in several ways in order to win. But you know what? I have fun with it and that is what is important to me.
 

mario-man

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Alright guys, I AM willing to be proven wrong. HOWEVER, when I see a challenge, I am the kind of person that will do whatever is necessary to overcome it. I do not base my statements off of my own experience in this case. I look at vids of Eggz, and, though he may be alot better than most Marios, I can see certain instances where he could do something different and it would have better outcomes. Of course no player is completely flawless, but I intend to find his mistakes and not make them. If you have good enough mindgames to go with your pro level techskill, you can overcome all obstacles. Not slammin' anybody. I completely understand your point. Because Mario is so disliked, he is not used very much. Therefore, it IS possible that there could be some type of playstyle or metagame that has not been discovered, because everyone that picks up Mario tries to mimick their previous Mario heroes. This can obviously limit the perspective through which Mario is observed through.
 

FaceFaceMcFace

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Mario-man, unless you find out that the downtilt has some secret uber-sweetspot that is about 10 feet away from him and causes an instant-kill upon impact, there is not much that can be done with Mario's metagame.

And yeah Kevin-M, it does look like a thread you made, heh. I actually sort of want to link to it towards the end of my original post since you go into greater detail about the concept of mains.
 

Pynk

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Good thread Face. I sure hope Luigi has one of those crazy d-tilt glitches to. Our matches would be so much fun.
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
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according to phanna's chart you should(it's even really) play mario against a Capt. Falcon.

so you should play him competitivly, there.
 

FaceFaceMcFace

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What about other characters that have a clear advantage over Falcon? Playing Mario just because he goes even-ish with falcon (I personally think he has a slight disadvantage) is a silly reason to use him unless you personally really like the matchup I suppose. Using him competitively for reasons I listed though, are reasonable.... excluding perhaps all the mustache and funny noise comments.

Again, I will restate that I am not trying to stop people from playing as mario. I am trying to help them realize the benifits that other characters may have for them, and to make sure that if they stick with mario, it is overall their most benificial choice.
 

Speedsk8er

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Mario is one of those characters where you start with and get a general grasp on the game with. After you do that, you discover which character is best for you. He's easy to get good with but hard to dominate with because his mediocrity in everything makes him a flawed character.

He's like GaW, only not as crappy. HELLA fun to play but inviable in higher level play.
 

Matador

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Good read Face, and I agree with you. Mario has a definite disadvantage in the tournament scene and shouldn't be played if you're planning to win. But I didn't choose Mario for any of the mentioned reasons. In every game I play, I choose the underdog. I used to play Falco, but once I saw how high up on the tier list he was, and how he was played, I dropped him (comma splices ftl). I picked up Mario because of his versatility and how friggin cool he is. Once I saw how few people played him and how underrated he was, I began practicing. I still play to win, and I know that I'd probably be better with Falco, but I feel more fulfilled if I win a match using the plumber. I'm just weird like that XD
 

FaceFaceMcFace

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Good read Face, and I agree with you. Mario has a definite disadvantage in the tournament scene and shouldn't be played if you're planning to win. But I didn't choose Mario for any of the mentioned reasons. In every game I play, I choose the underdog. I used to play Falco, but once I saw how high up on the tier list he was, and how he was played, I dropped him (comma splices ftl). I picked up Mario because of his versatility and how friggin cool he is. Once I saw how few people played him and how underrated he was, I began practicing. I still play to win, and I know that I'd probably be better with Falco, but I feel more fulfilled if I win a match using the plumber. I'm just weird like that XD
Truthfully I started out with marth, tried mario because I sucked horribly with marth, (and I still can't quite get marth at high levels of play no matter training and experimenting often.) and that's why I moved down the teir list. To be honest I may be a bowser main soon just because I play much much more consistently with him. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that because people will think I am contradicting myself. XD Oh well... I definitely get what you mean though; it does give a strange satisfaction.

And Eternal phoenix Fire, that is the strongest argument ever made through only the use of a picture of edibles ever. Mario does have great combos certainly, but they can only be linked into his F-smash at a small range of percents, and generally good DI can break them unless you are very good at predicting where they will go. That doesn't stop me from loving them though.
 
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Truthfully I started out with marth, tried mario because I sucked horribly with marth, (and I still can't quite get marth at high levels of play no matter training and experimenting often.) and that's why I moved down the teir list. To be honest I may be a bowser main soon just because I play much much more consistently with him. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that because people will think I am contradicting myself. XD Oh well... I definitely get what you mean though; it does give a strange satisfaction.

And Eternal phoenix Fire, that is the strongest argument ever made through only the use of a picture of edibles ever. Mario does have great combos certainly, but they can only be linked into his F-smash at a small range of percents, and generally good DI can break them unless you are very good at predicting where they will go. That doesn't stop me from loving them though.
Single Jab Cancel > D-smash.

That's my favorite combo.

:p
 

FaceFaceMcFace

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Yes mario-man, the gimpyfish combo is wonderful.

and really Eternal? I prefer jab -> grab or jab -> Utilt unless they're at high percentages.

Jab to downsmash is quite spiffy though, yes yes... and yeah, I'm guessing your point is that even many good players won't get out of that; you have me there.
 

KevinM

TB12 TB12 TB12
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Not for Mario.
No.... for every character.. the game has been out for SIX years what could you possible learn that could even break the game in Mario's favor... even if he had no long on his aerials he would still be worse then roughly half the characters in the game.. so no Mario's tapped welcome to smashboards
 

Eggz

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Gimpy and I agree that Mario is untapped as well. Thats the only reason I started playing him more often again.

Also, any referring to Phanna's matchup chart will earn you 235 stupid points.

That thing is ****ing awful.
 

mario-man

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Gimpy and I agree that Mario is untapped as well. Thats the only reason I started playing him more often again.

Also, any referring to Phanna's matchup chart will earn you 235 stupid points.

That thing is ****ing awful.
R U SERIOUS DUDE?!?!
 

FaceFaceMcFace

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Yeah, Phanna's chart has innacuracies all over the place. Props to him though for even trying to do something so complex.

Eggz, I do hope I am proven wrong about Mario's metagame; and I can see where you may think there is still unknown potential perhaps, but I don't believe there is anything left that is majorly significant.
 

mario-man

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Let's not forget who your talking about Face, Eggz has advanced knowledge of Mario. Maybe he has other reasons to think that, that we have no way of knowing about...
 

KevinM

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Let's not forget who your talking about Face, Eggz has advanced knowledge of Mario. Maybe he has other reasons to think that, that we have no way of knowing about...
There are a ton of people here that play on a competitive level, they are allowed to disagree with THE EGGZ, honestly nothing you can change about Mario or something you could discover would change him, but thats not the purpose of this thread so whatever
 

Eggz

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Actually there are a lot of things I know about that I haven't even started practicing yet. Mario has a lot more things left that I need to work into my game with him.

Examples

Abusing Bairs

Going for combos less and focusing on gay 2 hitter smash attack combos then edgeguarding

fair techchasing

and a lot more.
 
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