Why Sheik will Return

[blueriku]

i honestly think sheik should be announced soon if you think about it anything about Zelda has not be mentioned plus their are only 6 at which their move have not been shown 2 of which nothing has been shown (Zelda and Lucas) plus the only thing in the game feature wise is all star and whatever else is new. so Zelda might be announced soon maybe she is being saved as a "big" announcement but i think when Zelda is announced that sheik be too i obviously don't know if sheik is in, but i highly doubt she is out we'll all know when Zelda is the update which is hopefully soon....

 

[Black/Light]

Nice Disscussion... may I join? ^.^

Well this is our opinions... Sakurai can just be like "NO WAY!" and there goes my arguments...any way



But then again Samus is always the same Samus... she can just go to the wardrobe and change clothes or take her helmet off.. Mario is Mario now or 20 years ago (so he can pick up Fludd if he wants to)

With Zelda it's completly different:

Let's just say that every Zelda is not named Zelda... So we have Maria, Jill, OMGNOSHIEK!, Noobprincess and Kutipie. By saying Shiek should return one is basicaly saying that it's ok to Kutipe to transform into her great grandmother Jill?! WTH O_o

Then there's the fact that in the present zelda timeline there isn't a shiek.. think about it..Shiek existed in the OoT Future, so when Link returns, Zelda doesn't need to run away and hide. Therefore there isn't the need to learn the way of the sheikah...So no shiek. Which means TP Zelda has no idea what you're talking about (Sure you could say that Impa taught her.. but look at the Sheikah/Impa situation in TP.. Western phantom city? Yeah Go GO Royal family guards!!! ...Thank the godesses they protected her from Zant >_> )

OK That leaves the Timeline in which Zelda was truly Shiek so that must mean it's i... Oh wait! Listen!! (>_>) Tetra didn't know she was the princess so there's no way she could know how to turn into Shiek... The Shiek link is broken (no pun inteded)... So Shiek being a zelda transformation would seriously mess everything up (unless in the trophy there were some kind of explanation or something x.x)

And then.. if Zelda is suposed to be representing every Zelda.. were is my pirate alter ego.. it's been in 2 games now and seriously it's so much more badass!! I mean c'mon people, Shiek was Zelda hiding (please Mr Ganon don't hurt me)...Tetra is the leader of a group of pirates who goes around causing chaos (and trying to help people)

But that's for me.. I want Tetra so badly (It doesn't need to be a transformation, just another character... as seen in PH "don't call me princess, Tetra was just fine before" - goes carelessly into a ghost ship... )
and it wold make much more sense as both TP and WW are somewhat parallel...but I don't want to go into timeline disscussions here


So yeah please no shiek connections... put in a gerudo or whatever

QFT. I agree with this post!

And Pirates>Ninjas http://youtube.com/watch?v=QiMRE_uSPlQ
. . . they have thier own friggen talk! Plus, they have had the beater movie's lately

 

[SiD]

Ninjas could kill every pirate in the world while they were in the middle of a conversation and make it look like an accident. That's pretty **** badsas.

 

[Fawriel]

>_>

What kind of ninja plays a harp <_<

Apparently the kind of ninja who is so powerful they are too haughty to use their powers to save the world. Or something.

Still, that could mean Tetra aswell... but Tetra isn't an "excellent" pirate, she's confident & smart, but she sure as hell can't defend herself, we've seen that all too often ^^;

You try running up to frikkin Ganondorf and actually snatching something out of his frikkin two-ton hands.

Granted, I don't completely remember WHAT happened in that scene, but that girl seems to actually show more skills in combat than Sheik ever did.

Sakurai did what he had to do to get Captain Falcon playable (why he was so hellbent on including him, I'll never know).

I'll put it this way: Of all the people in this thread, you are probably the one who should understand it best.

*ahem*

Not gonna reply to a lot of that, since It's stuff we've already talked about pages ago ^^;

But you do see Shiek transform back into Zelda in OoT, there's no reall hard evidence to show she can do it freely, but there's more than there is in WW, in WW, Tetra becomes Zelda when her heirloom is fixed, but she doesn't become Tetra again until Hyrule has completely died.

Still, no hard evidence, fair enough I guess.

That is, unfortunately, true.

i honestly think sheik should be announced soon if you think about it anything about Zelda has not be mentioned plus their are only 6 at which their move have not been shown 2 of which nothing has been shown (Zelda and Lucas) plus the only thing in the game feature wise is all star and whatever else is new. so Zelda might be announced soon maybe she is being saved as a "big" announcement but i think when Zelda is announced that sheik be too i obviously don't know if sheik is in, but i highly doubt she is out we'll all know when Zelda is the update which is hopefully soon....

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure all the characters we're getting ever since that Snake update are gonne be unlockable.
Why would Sheik be unlockable?

Granted, that's a theory spawned from a theory, but still interesting to think about.


PS: Also, it's not that there are few Sheik supporters, it's more like there's only about one Sheik supporter whose arguments are worth listening to.

PSS: I second the kudos to Dreamscape.

PSSS: Ninjas would be beaten up so easily in close combat it's not even funny.

 

[Black/Light]

Ninjas could kill every pirate in the world while they were in the middle of a conversation and make it look like an accident. That's pretty **** badsas.

In order to even try to do so they would have to brave the other world like seas where they would surly meet their deafs at the hands of the worlds most unpredictable climate. Well pirates can with stand and live kick a** lives on the seas.

Sounds more bad *** to me

 

[Cojiro]

>_>

What kind of ninja plays a harp <_<

A sexy ninja.

Seriously though, buff Zelda a little (read: a lot), nerf Sheik a little, keep a great and innovative game mechanic, and prosper.

Don't worry about continuity anyway, Zelda is a collection of Legends. SSB Zelda/Sheik is just another one.

 

[blueriku]

i think pirate are interesting, but its kinda like they just chill on a ship and never take a shower for month on end then dock do pirate stuff and kick *** stuff the on the sea again repeat process eh ninja are so much cooler they have crazy agility and skill hand to hand plus they have really cool weapons like shobo's, Ninjaken(stealth sword), kunai's, needle's, and shurikens and what do pirates have swords.....and..guns....and....well i think that its really that blows for pirates.

 

[RWB]

i think pirate are interesting, but its kinda like they just chill on a ship and never take a shower for month on end then dock do pirate stuff and kick *** stuff the on the sea again repeat process eh ninja are so much cooler they have crazy agility and skill hand to hand plus they have really cool weapons like shobo's, Ninjaken(stealth sword), kunai's, needle's, and shurikens and what do pirates have swords.....and..guns....and....well i think that its really that blows for pirates.

Guns own every other weapon in the world in usefulness, period. Armor is inaffective, and it is a distance weapon, while still being an excellent clubbing weapon.

crazy agility and skill hand to hand... Not really. I doubt they'd stand a chance in close combat, stealth kills is the way for them.

Cuz that's basically what they are, assassins. Most of them were simply spies though...

Many pirate capts were nobility that had lost their estates and gone to sea.
No chance in hell that a ninja can challenge a noble in close fighting prowess. If you didn't know, nobles tend to be several steps above the common people in skill.

What kind of a pirate helps people? AKA Tetra sucks.

...Ninjas > Pirates

Quite a lot of them, actually. Depends a little on the view. The real terror of the caribbean, Francis Drake, hated to be calll a pirate, because he was actually in the service of the queen of England, and was a member of the parliament(!).

Of course, he did it for benefits... XD

 

[blueriku]

RBW ninjas yes are assassins, but they do know hand to hand (well good ninja's at least). i think what you are basically saying if they were in a normal fight they would be screwed, that is not logical how can a art about stealth and assassination teach how to kill and be unnoticed, but not defend yourself that is just ******** think about ;

NINJA: im gonna kill you
VICTIM: dude i see you
NINJA: ah crap what do
VICTIM: well your ****ed

yea i don't think that would happen........

 

[gamer8]

I never use zelda in smash bros games, and I never will, I just hate using her, Shiek is an awesome character, and speed is great in these kinds of games, Shiek for brawl!

 

[Fawriel]

RBW ninjas yes are assassins, but they do know hand to hand (well good ninja's at least). i think what you are basically saying if they were in a normal fight they would be screwed, that is not logical how can a art about stealth and assassination teach how to kill and be unnoticed, but not defend yourself that is just ******** think about ;

NINJA: im gonna kill you
VICTIM: dude i see you
NINJA: ah crap what do
VICTIM: well your ****ed

yea i don't think that would happen........

Actually, they were pretty much ****ed, at least when facing anyone reasonably strong and reasonably armed. Yes, they specialized in not being seen ( which is in fact not so much the art of sneaking around as it is the skill to disguise as a harmless person ).
And you do not go unnoticed when you're carrying a giant sword or when you look like the frikkin Hulk. Nor is sneaking very easy for a musclehead.
There were some stronger ninjas, but most of them, if they didn't flee, could be easily killed in close combat by any half-decent samurai or ronin. Or pirate.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Actually, they were pretty much ****ed, at least when facing anyone reasonably strong and reasonably armed. Yes, they specialized in not being seen ( which is in fact not so much the art of sneaking around as it is the skill to disguise as a harmless person ).
And you do not go unnoticed when you're carrying a giant sword or when you look like the frikkin Hulk. Nor is sneaking very easy for a musclehead.
There were some stronger ninjas, but most of them, if they didn't flee, could be easily killed in close combat by any half-decent samurai or ronin. Or pirate.

No, true ninjas (those seen in games/comics/movies lol) are beyond any strong and armed man. Theatricallity and deception is used to gain the upper hand, along with mind-games. In the world of Smash, a ninja is powerful. End.

Although pirates are quite hardcore, cyborg-ninja spies such as myself can defeat them if handled correctly.

 

[RWB]

No, true ninjas (those seen in games/comics/movies lol) are beyond any strong and armed man. Theatricallity and deception is used to gain the upper hand, along with mind-games. In the world of Smash, a ninja is powerful. End.

Although pirates are quite hardcore, cyborg-ninja spies such as myself can defeat them if handled correctly.

Tsk. No ninjas stand a chance against Captain Jack Sparrow, savvy.

XD

 

[SuperLink9]

When you say there's about 1 Shiek supporter with decent points/views, do you mean me? ;-)

As for Tetra, Ganondorf overpowered them both, & Link, even as a 10 year old amateur, fought well than she did. She also got taken by the Kargorok, & obviously put up no fight whatsoever when the Ghost Ship took her. That & all she ever did was tell Link he was acting like a baby, even though all through both games with her in she shouted & moaned more than Link ever did ^^;

To me, Tetra's not strong, she just has a big voice, & she's smart & independant. She doesn't seem built for fighting, maybe being sneaky (Ninjas>Pirates ) but not fighting.

Shiek (in OoT) seems very precautioned at all times, in such a horrible world Shiek seemed to live fine without being caught by Ganondorf or his cronies, & yet she scaled the same mountains & terrain that Link did, not to mention you can tell she's very agile.

Still, like I said before, it's not hard proof that Shiek was a fighter, just peices of an unfinished jigsaw puzzle.

EDIT: Personally I don't like Shiek any more than Zelda, or vice versa, I'm simply arguing for the under dog, as I do, & there don't seem to be many arguing for Shiek's case. Shiek needs more support is all

The way I see it is this:

-If Shiek is in Brawl as Zelda's Transform, it'll disprove that continuity is a huge factor in SSB, or it will prove that they are simply updates designs of the same character.
-If Shiek has a seperate moveset, it would almost completely prove that continuity has a place in SSB.

If Shiek is in as neither then those who said Sheik was taking up space in another character in unfair... completely removing a character is surely moreso? Especially to the Shiek fans.

 

[Black/Light]

I seriously hope you're joking because those are some pretty valid points.

....

I think it's valid. ZSamus in particular does look like she'll play similar to Sheik. Maybe not the same exact moves, but many similar ones, and comparable movement. Either way though, even if she isn't exactly the same, no one is exactly the same as their Melee counterpart. Like he said, even thought Sheik had a unique playing style, she wasn't really a relevant character, which is undeniable. Rather than scrapping a good moveset though, I can easily see some of it being given away if they want to make room for some more significant characters.

Anyways, he's bringing up new points, so I don't see any harm in discussing them.

Thank you for the support Iris.

Good to know atleast one other person got my point

 

[SiD]

PS: Also, it's not that there are few Sheik supporters, it's more like there's only about one Sheik supporter whose arguments are worth listening to.

Thanks you!

Thank you for the support Iris.

Good to know atleast one other person got my point

Dude, wtf? Quote something from pages ago so that no one can see my response?

.....that's very ninja like behavior.....Ninjas > Pirates?!? o.0

 

[Firekid2]

Ya know, actually, I don't think it's all that impossible to have Sheik be part of Zelda. I mean look at Kirby. He's useing Copy abilities with out the hats. Not only that, but Dedede's Mechanized Hammer came completely out of nowhere. So basically, Sakurai will probably ignore continuity on a reasonable level.

 

[EpicE]

Sheik should come back just to piss off Zero Suit Samus.

 

[blueriku]

Sheik should come back just to piss off Zero Suit Samus.

lol hahaha WOW that came out of nowhere, anyways sheik should come back but harder to use so its more of a challenge be play as her.

 

[Asian_Flava]

Sheik wont be in... I called it..

 

[Chepe]

I hope people really arent arguing that Shiek isnt likely to return. Just leaving her out of the demo says a lot. And if Shiek does return, you can bet that she will be TP'd, her design I mean (courtesy of that one interview). So having Zelda out of the demo means Sakurai is hiding something.

Now what would be more important to hide? A new Down B thats just some new move, or a whole character he hasnt revealed yet and that is likely to have a facelift?

 

[Your Hero]

I hope people really arent arguing that Shiek isnt likely to return. Just leaving her out of the demo says a lot. And if Shiek does return, you can bet that she will be TP'd, her design I mean (courtesy of that one interview). So having Zelda out of the demo means Sakurai is hiding something.

Now what would be more important to hide? A new Down B thats just some new move, or a whole character he hasnt revealed yet and that is likely to have a facelift?

If sheik doesn't come back as a zelda transformation, then me and someone else on a different thread thought that, since it's hard to think up a b-down move for zelda, why not move her standard-b (the diamonds that counter attacks) to b-down, that way standard-b would get the new attack (which is much easier to fill in, mainly since b-down or b side are the counter attacks. If we moved her counter to b-down, then it leaves a free spot for a new attack, such as light arrows, or possibly any other moves that was used in the finalshowdown in TP :], or any other attack lol).

 

[Chepe]

Hmm, I agree with that: Nayru's Love as Down B and Light Arrows as B, Shiek doesnt return (very unlikely). Either way, that would not have been as important or interesting to keep away from us than a Shiek with a new look...

 

[Iris]

Well, the whole leaving Zelda out does point to change. Sheik coming back in TP style wouldn't really be a surprise unless it was a completely different character with the same moveset. I think separate character is more likely.

Nayru's love probably will be a down-B now if Sheik's out, simply becaue the most original move for characters is generally neutral B, and the goddess spells aren't exactly the most original thing Zelda could be using.

 

[Fawriel]

I woke up today and one of the first thoughts that went through my head is that it's not all that likely that Sheik will be out of the game.

God dammit!

I hope people really arent arguing that Shiek isnt likely to return. Just leaving her out of the demo says a lot. And if Shiek does return, you can bet that she will be TP'd, her design I mean (courtesy of that one interview). So having Zelda out of the demo means Sakurai is hiding something.

Now what would be more important to hide? A new Down B thats just some new move, or a whole character he hasnt revealed yet and that is likely to have a facelift?

Hur hur, yeah.

... except, you know, they could just as well be hiding the absence of Sheik? Or nothing at all?
Why do you think they didn't have Kirby or Lucas playable?

 

[EPX2]

Well, the whole leaving Zelda out does point to change. Sheik coming back in TP style wouldn't really be a surprise unless it was a completely different character with the same moveset.

Not necessarily. After all, whether or not Sheik will return is probably one of the most discussed topics in regards to Brawl just because so many people are unsure about if she will, so allowing us to play Zelda in the demo would have revealed something pretty major.

 

[SuperLink9]

Kirby may not have been finished, & Lucas is (probably) a secret character. Then again, so is Sonic, so it may have just been because it's unfinished, or because people would have wanted to play as Sonic even though he's a secret.

As for Zelda not being playable, yes, it can go both ways. It's entirely possible Sakurai hasn't decided yet. Zelda could have been unplayable to hide Shiek, or to hide Shiek's absense, or maybe Sakurai hasn't decided whether Shiek should be a seperate character, or attatched to Zelda's moveset. If Shiek is playable in Brawl, it's likely she'll have a TP look. Mario's look was upgraded for SSBM, & then a little further for Brawl, Pit you wouldn't even recognise if Nintendo hadn't said that character's name was "Pit" So anything's possible.

Shiek's design in OoT isn't that "plain" so all it would really need is some nice textures.

 

[Black/Light]

Well, from what I gather, some characters where not PC in the demos because they probly wanted to only have a select few playable as to not spoil the next few months of character updates yet STILL give people a teast of the game. Im very much sure Zelda's move-set and what not are complete by now.

And yes, in theory the fact we know lil about Zelda as of now could mean anything from "Sheik is in TP form and they don't want to show it" to " Sheik aint in the move-set and is seperate character" to "Shiek is gone and would be the first character comfirmed to not return well Zelda transforms into TP styled Tetra/ Cloaked Zelda or doesn't transform at all".

I personally think the latter is the best guess. Really, what would be shocking/ important about a TP looking Sheik? If I remember correctly Zelda was the first vet to be confirmed on the site and not in a trailer. . . and she is the only one to not have a update sence her intor update about her moves in any shape (along with IC but they are new) .

We have seen all the other vet's moves in either trailers or the demo (again, save IC) so I think they are hiding a new character and/or confirmation of a the scapping of Sheik. IMO the only reason to hide something is if theres something new or different about it. New vB/ confirmation of Sheik being scrapped/ or New Transformation makes the most sense to me.

(I also see no reason for sheik to come back as her own character either)

 

[Your Hero]

Kirby may not have been finished, & Lucas is (probably) a secret character. Then again, so is Sonic, so it may have just been because it's unfinished, or because people would have wanted to play as Sonic even though he's a secret.

As for Zelda not being playable, yes, it can go both ways. It's entirely possible Sakurai hasn't decided yet. Zelda could have been unplayable to hide Shiek, or to hide Shiek's absense, or maybe Sakurai hasn't decided whether Shiek should be a seperate character, or attatched to Zelda's moveset. If Shiek is playable in Brawl, it's likely she'll have a TP look. Mario's look was upgraded for SSBM, & then a little further for Brawl, Pit you wouldn't even recognise if Nintendo hadn't said that character's name was "Pit" So anything's possible.

Shiek's design in OoT isn't that "plain" so all it would really need is some nice textures.

They didn't add Kirby because they most likely haven't finished with his sucking-up ability (b-standard), or they didn't want everyone to see what the hats are like. Lucas, maybe they haven't finished with his colours, or yet again, they didn't want to add him yet.

Zelda was not playable most likely because of Sheik, it would make senjse, but maybe it's also because they haven't finished her "New b attack" which would make just as much sense.

 

[Drake3]

So the only vets left out were Kirby, Zelda, and the Ice Climbers. I don't see why Kirby was left out though, as I refuse to believe that they haven't finished the hats. I really expected the 4 main ones to be there. That's really stupid to skip over Kirby and Zelda and go straight to Bowser and Peach though. DK and Yoshi I can understand because they're part of the original cast.

 

[Black/Light]

They didn't add Kirby because they most likely haven't finished with his sucking-up ability (b-standard), or they didn't want everyone to see what the hats are like. Lucas, maybe they haven't finished with his colours, or yet again, they didn't want to add him yet.

Zelda was not playable most likely because of Sheik, it would make senjse, but maybe it's also because they haven't finished her "New b attack" which would make just as much sense.

"And it appears that this event will display the first ever public playable version of Super Smash Bros. Brawl! I am planning on having people play the game—but with limited character selection."

Thats what Im going to take it as. Really, they didn't show off alot of characters that have had their moves shown off before (Snake/ Wario/ Red/ Kriby). It's pretty useless to make threoies for the reason why when this was a simple demo aimed only at giveing the fans a teast of the game.

Given what I have said (cause it is useless. . . no reason to have all the dojo characters in a small demo either way you flip it), I think Zelda wasn't playable/ updated/ shown much on dojo or in any "good" vids (one tiny one with Mario aint cutting it) because it could either deconfirm Sheik or confirm a new transformation which are both more shocking and important than. . . say, MK/ Peach's/ Ike's FS attacks for example.

 

[SuperLink9]

With Lucas, they may have not wanted his moveset revealed either. From today's update it seems almost the same as Ness', that makes Ness' return even more debatable, so Lucas & Zelda were probably not playable for the same reasons; risk of confirming/deconfirming veterans.

 

[Iris]

Yeah, I think Sheik is in the same boat as Ness. Long-term silence and similar characters says enough.

 

[Your Hero]

With Lucas, they may have not wanted his moveset revealed either. From today's update it seems almost the same as Ness', that makes Ness' return even more debatable, so Lucas & Zelda were probably not playable for the same reasons; risk of confirming/deconfirming veterans.

Ness won't be returning bud.. I thought he would but he's not lol

"There’s a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now, and Lucas is very similar. They are from the same family of PK users."

First line of the update :[

 

[SuperLink9]

I know, I've been thinking about it all day. There's still hope, even if a tiny bit. It can go both ways He either means that "Up until now" means that "always" so possibly including Brawl, or he could mean "Not any more" which sure sounds more likely...

Personally, getting rid of Ness is a crime, or anyone of the original 12. I don't care about Shiek any more, if Ness is in it, Shiek can have absolutely no presence in the game & I won't care.

 

[Your Hero]

lol I'd personally rather have Sheik in it, mainly since Lucas already has Ness' moves except better. The yoy was pointless (maybe only for me tho, because in my game you couldn't charge it) and the bat is already an item that you can pickup.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Kirby may not have been finished, & Lucas is (probably) a secret character. Then again, so is Sonic, so it may have just been because it's unfinished, or because people would have wanted to play as Sonic even though he's a secret.

What is this based off of? Lucas is not a secret character because he's been revealed.

...?

 

[ThoraxeRMG]

Because she was one of the top melee fighters...?

 

[teeman92]

shiek should stay out, i mean, ever since she came, most my opponent mained shiekies, and owned me since, i bet online would be ruined it she came back

 

[blueriku]

shiek should stay out, i mean, ever since she came, most my opponent mained shiekies, and owned me since, i bet online would be ruined it she came back

your just saying you suck against sheik's and for that reason she should be taken out. that is not a valid reason to take sheik out, you could remedy your misfortune against sheik by studying her in vids a research on smash forums besides sheik will most likely be nerfed for brawl and might be harder to use because of her change like fox.