Why Rollout is a good move/crap move ( debate )

[fallenangemon0]

**THIS DEBATE ABOUT ROLLOUT DOES NOT IN ANY WAY APPLY TO FREE FOR ALLs OR ONLINE PLAY**

Many people feel that Rollout is the most useless piece of **** move out of all of Jiggs' moves and others feel it is essential to a good Jigglypuff player's mindgames and a great KO move.

Me? I think the move is under rated. When you look at its pros vs its cons its still a personal preference as to if you should use it or not.

Pros:
·Its good for mind games.
·It can KO well, even at low charge times.
· With B reversal you can confuse people by changing your direction.

Cons
· Not hard to intercept
· Will get you killed if spamed
· Useless in every way if opponent has projectiles.

I also feel that people pass off rollout as a "bad" move so quickly, they don't bother to find applications for it, or how/when its usefull.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

discuss

 

[Jigglymaster]

Don't use it often. Just like once or twice in a match. However I always try to do rollout as a tech chase since it charges up so fast. I hate to chose stages with platforms because they let the opponent take advantage of you if you try to do rollout and miss.

 

[PND]

Don't use it often. Just like once or twice in a match. However I always try to do rollout as a tech chase since it charges up so fast. I hate to chose stages with platforms because they let the opponent take advantage of you if you try to do rest and miss.

Amen to the platforms. I usually ban Battlefield in my sets.

Rollout is punishment, not approach. If the opponent makes a mistake, be it poor spacing, poor choice of moves, or bad recovery; well, punish the lag with a short charged rollout.

 

[fallenangemon0]

Amen to the platforms. I usually ban Battlefield in my sets.

Rollout is punishment, not approach. If the opponent makes a mistake, be it poor spacing, poor choice of moves, or bad recovery; well, punish the lag with a short charged rollout.

I agree.

Its also great for opponents recovering back onto the stage ( that don't/can't go for the ledge)

 

[Tenki]

On a strange note, anyone here try to kill with aerial rollout?

cause uh.

Sonic's down-B works a tiny bit like rollout, other than its cancellable properties, but noone ever tried to use it in midair. I tried it out and found a bungholeload of cool stuff to do out of it.

Jiggly's aerial rollout kills off the top with pretty good knockback, I think, even at a low charge.

Anyone?

 

[rinoH]

dont use it at all unless the person sucks or if it is a tech chase

 

[tEhrXXz0r]

I hate to chose stages with platforms because they let the opponent take advantage of you if you try to do rollout and miss.

Amen to the platforms. I usually ban Battlefield in my sets.

Banning Battlefield does you more harm than good. Battlefield's platforms are your only defense against projectile spammers (other than just floating over them -_-).

My take on Rollout:

It's an okay move to throw out there once in a while, but if spammed, IT IS EASILY PUNISHABLE. I'd only ever use it when my opponent has already wasted all of his jumps and he's about to land after being in the air. Use Rollout sparingly: there are better alternatives, most likely.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

On a strange note, anyone here try to kill with aerial rollout?

cause uh.

Sonic's down-B works a tiny bit like rollout, other than its cancellable properties, but noone ever tried to use it in midair. I tried it out and found a bungholeload of cool stuff to do out of it.

Jiggly's aerial rollout kills off the top with pretty good knockback, I think, even at a low charge.

Anyone?

yes aerial rollout i think is very good. i sometimes use it to recover if the person isn't going to chase me off stage to edgeguard me since it does vertically KO very well.

Banning Battlefield does you more harm than good. Battlefield's platforms are your only defense against projectile spammers (other than just floating over them -_-).

My take on Rollout:

It's an okay move to throw out there once in a while, but if spammed, IT IS EASILY PUNISHABLE. I'd only ever use it when my opponent has already wasted all of his jumps and he's about to land after being in the air. Use Rollout sparingly: there are better alternatives, most likely.

battlefield is nice but Delfino plaza is the best stage for JP i think (paltform projectile defense FTW). i also like to throw it out there once in a while since it does KO very well and can't be shield grabed. its also fun to roll behind someones back and bounce them off when they try to spot dodge it lol. and besides if it starts to run out you can always roll off the stage as a defense to avoid the ending lag.

 

[stoopdklutz]

I use it up to a max of maybe 3 per match. It's fun to mess with the opponents head by releasing at full charge, go back, then rush forward again. And it makes me laugh.

 

[Glick]

I use roll out a lot situationally. Roll out is a great move and its very fast. I find myself using rollout in recoveries a lot. Even though you may think its a bad idea, It works better then you think. You can start charging it and then have the person start preparing for it then just let it fall a little and grab the ledge. if you keep doing this they will start to let their guard down when you do it and you can punish them.

Its mind games, and you WILL get your *** handed to you if you do it wrong.


I use it in 2v2's a lot. make sure to discuss with your partner how to deal with your rollout (get behind you jump ect.)

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I use it in 2v2's a lot. make sure to discuss with your partner how to deal with your rollout (get behind you jump ect.)

you can just have Lucario on your team and he can double team while you rollout past him >.>

 

[Tomato Kirby]

I only used this move for recoveries and on accident.

I guess I am one of the several people who discarded the move without looking for applications. I never though about it as punishment.

 

[HiddenBowser]

If I'm really high in the air, I'm bored, and want to be on the otherside I'll use it to fly across the top of the screen but besides that you should never use it. The only way you are going to land a rollout on someone is if they use a really laggy move in a bad spot (which means your opponent shouldn't have used that move there) so basically, if you are playing someone very good, they aren't going to put themselves in situations to could potentially get themselves rollouted, so if you're playing bad people, sure, go gung ho and use it as much as you want, but if you're playing good people, never use it.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

wow Bowyer......
do you take pleasure in stopping every JP thread to bits? >.>

 

[tEhrXXz0r]

wow Bowyer......
do you take pleasure in stopping every JP thread to bits? >.>

I do not see even a bit of hostility in Bowyer's previous post... He was being sincere this time lol

And I pretty much agree with what Bowyer just said anyway.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i know he was being sincere but he sounds like the move is totally worthless. its situational yes but not worthless.

 

[tEhrXXz0r]

From what I gather in Bowyer's take on Rollout, he states that it will have very little or absolutely no application in high levels of play. He also stated, however, that it will only ever be useful when you're playing less skilled players.

Bowyer never said that Rollout was "totally worthless" and had no application. He only stated that it had no use against players who know better than to let themselves stay open for a Rollout.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

well, i guess your right.

 

[Little England]

Don't use it often. Just like once or twice in a match. However I always try to do rollout as a tech chase since it charges up so fast. I hate to chose stages with platforms because they let the opponent take advantage of you if you try to do rollout and miss.

Bowyer, what is your counter statement?

 

[tEhrXXz0r]

Let's not make another flame war topic only to get it closed... -_-

I DO want to hear Bowyer's counter-statement though.

 

[HiddenBowser]

Bowyer, what is your counter statement?

How often do you see techs? You can alway airdodge before you hit the ground so teching should never be an option because it leaves you way the **** more open than airdodging does.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

How often do you see techs? You can alway airdodge before you hit the ground so teching should never be an option because it leaves you way the **** more open than airdodging does.

...or you could always use it to hit people during on-stage recoveries or after they've been pressured into a second jump, since a well-timed attack on a landing opponent is unblockable.

I've also gotten this move to hit by jumping OVER a Wolf Fsmash while half-charging and releasing rollout in mid air.

 

[HiddenBowser]

...or you could always use it to hit people during on-stage recoveries or after they've been pressured into a second jump, since a well-timed attack on a landing opponent is unblockable.

The higher the level of play, the less and less that this happens. People would seriously catch onto this really fast and you'd never hit em.

I've also gotten this move to hit by jumping OVER a Wolf Fsmash while half-charging and releasing rollout in mid air.

Classic example of a "I shouldn't have done that" moment.

 

[illinialex24]

How often do you see techs? You can alway airdodge before you hit the ground so teching should never be an option because it leaves you way the **** more open than airdodging does.

I agree that teching in Brawl leaves you vulnerable, however, they do happen, and in which case you should definitely use rollout.

And also, you have to use unexpected rollouts sometimes if you want rollout to work. Like if you do a fair or bair, once in a while, jump again and release a half-charged rollout.

 

[HiddenBowser]

I agree that teching in Brawl leaves you vulnerable, however, they do happen, and in which case you should definitely use rollout.

Give me a situation that would result in teching? The only teching I can even semi see occuring is if you get hit hard into a wall, and thats basically it. Sure some characters have moves that send you fast downward, but jiggs is not one of those characters.

And also, you have to use unexpected rollouts sometimes if you want rollout to work. Like if you do a fair or bair, once in a while, jump again and release a half-charged rollout.

That would never hit a good player... EVER.

 

[Little England]

You speak as if a good player never makes any mistakes. Unexpected rollouts DO work against good people. Of course I probably wouldn't do it more than once in one match.

..I mean, even if you do miss, you can just space yourself so that you don't get punished. The reward definitely beats the risk, especially for Jigglypuff.

 

[HiddenBowser]

You speak as if a good player never makes any mistakes. Unexpected rollouts DO work against good people. Of course I probably wouldn't do it more than once in one match.

..I mean, even if you do miss, you can just space yourself so that you don't get punished. The reward definitely beats the risk, especially for Jigglypuff.

Good people make small mistakes all the time, but leaving yourself open to a rollout is a huge mistake that good people won't do.

 

[Little England]

I disagree. Sometimes you don't even have to leave yourself open. When your opponents shield is low they have these options when Puff is charging a rollout...

a) Hold shield, which would either break or the rollout would poke through it and hit them anyways
b) Jump and airdodge. The effectiveness of this option of course would vary from character to character depending on their weight, jumping height, and the startup time for their jump. (Jigglypuff should NOT get punished in this situation.)
c) Rolling/sidestep dodge which a LOT of player **** up the timing on, especially when you catch them off guard. This would of course also result in them getting hit.

**of course there are the occasional characters like Samus who could upB or Oli who can whistle for super armor but in general low shields = good opportunity.

I hardly EVER get punished for the rollout. You shouldn't either so long as you don't spam it.

 

[HiddenBowser]

Good player in that situation would do the following. If they were within a single full jump of you they would take a full jump and either a) hit you before or right when you let go of it or b) double jump and land safely if you let it go. If they are away from you, they would just wait for you to take off, and then jump at the right time and possible come down on you. I'm telling you, against good people, it won't hit.

 

[illinialex24]

Good player in that situation would do the following. If they were within a single full jump of you they would take a full jump and either a) hit you before or right when you let go of it or b) double jump and land safely if you let it go. If they are away from you, they would just wait for you to take off, and then jump at the right time and possible come down on you. I'm telling you, against good people, it won't hit.

Thats if you make it really obvious, in which case they will either avoid it, or punish it using a smash, aerial, or B-move. However, if you make it much more difficult to detect, like if your opponent is defensive, fairing, then jumping and half charging a rollout. It becomes an aerial rollout and hits very often.

 

[Little England]

I don't think this is worth discussion if he won't budge. Does anyone else think the rollout is useless? I'm willing to settle for one person who doesn't. I mean that in a nice way too.

 

[HiddenBowser]

Thats if you make it really obvious, in which case they will either avoid it, or punish it using a smash, aerial, or B-move. However, if you make it much more difficult to detect, like if your opponent is defensive, fairing, then jumping and half charging a rollout. It becomes an aerial rollout and hits very often.

he gave me the situation where your sitting in a rollout and your opponent is shielding so I told him how to handle it. You can avoid the rollout in seriously like every situation. The only situation that I would recommend using it is if you know your opponent is going to tech, but that almost never happens in brawl.

 

[Little England]

Again, the reward > the risk

 

[illinialex24]

he gave me the situation where your sitting in a rollout and your opponent is shielding so I told him how to handle it. You can avoid the rollout in seriously like every situation. The only situation that I would recommend using it is if you know your opponent is going to tech, but that almost never happens in brawl.

yeah, if you are just holding rollout, they are going to beat you, but I have had good results with the faired to jump half rollout.

 

[HiddenBowser]

sure risk is like not very high but like reward is like 0 so risk > reward.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

how is the reward 0 if it connects?

 

[HiddenBowser]

The reward is 0 because it only connects on bad people. So let me rephrase my earlier post.

vs. bad people: risk <<<<< reward
vs. good people: risk > reward (reward is non existant because it will never happen)

 

[Little England]

lmfao. *fail* >________<

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Bowyer. Go get us some frame data for Rollout. I'm sure there are smash attacks that start slower than a half-charged rollout, and those have less range, yet can still be used to punish people. What's more, said smash attacks can't be done in the air.

A half charged rollout takes roughly about the same time to activate as Ike's ftilt. That's a move that Ike players will find ways to land.

 

[HiddenBowser]

Bowyer. Go get us some frame data for Rollout. I'm sure there are smash attacks that start slower than a half-charged rollout, and those have less range, yet can still be used to punish people. What's more, said smash attacks can't be done in the air.

A half charged rollout takes roughly about the same time to activate as Ike's ftilt. That's a move that Ike players will find ways to land.

I can't get frame data because this is brawl and there's no debug mode

If you want to use rollout, then go ahead, but from my experience competing against the best of the MW, rollout doesn't land agaisnt good people. I have won sets in pools agianst bad people by only using rollout but against good people it is not good to use.