Why No Fourside?

[Big Burn]

Seriously this topic will prolly get closed real soon but idk i have to know why fourside is banned at most tourneys..... WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH IT.... its soooo fun... i mean people can wall jump forever in that one section but that really doesnt affect a match that much.... mushroom kingdoms are so much worse with being able to die at such low percentages.... it seriously makes no sense.... will someone explain why fourside isnt at least available for counterpick?

 

[Aurafox]

It can't be selected as a counter-pick because Peach could do the counter-picking, and it's banned because of Peach wallbombing. If Peach can kill you once, she can just float to the bottom and forward+b the wall to stall the match. Seeing as you'd wanna make the score even before the timer runs out, you'd have to jump all the way down there and kill her, which will pretty much insure your death as well. (seeing if she floats low enough, you won't be able to recover from your move to make it back up, even if your character can walljump.) This gives Peach way too much of an advantage to the point of being unfair that it must ultimately be banned.

 

[VilNess]

...and marth is pretty SICK in this level.
Perfect tippers through top building!

 

[beefbutcher88]

I can see Fourside, but I think we've seriously gotten way too prude with the stage banning. What are we down to for random stages now, like 3?

 

[seaman]

I think the 6 neutral stages should be on random, & every other stage should be selectable if both players agree. If your opponent wanted to play a stage you thought was unfair all you'd have to do is disagree. You pick characters first, so if neither of you picked Peach maybe you both want to play on Fourside, so why not be able to?

 

[Undrdog]

Fourside also has really bad camera angles. the camera will zoom out when the UFO appears.

Honestly I think that there are some more stages that should be banned. Battlefield for one. stupid glitchy edges... >_>

 

[Big Burn]

couldnt it be possible to just ban peaches wall bombing and allow the stage to be played?

 

[Night Strife]

Thats kinda stupid. I mean would you want a person telling you before the battle, that you can't do so and so. I mean it might have been one of the mvoves in your strat and now you can't use it.

All in all, its just much easier to just ban the stage.

 

[Undrdog]

its more then just that, seriously. the camera angles ruin the fight. you'll be fighting and then BAM, you're 1/4 the size. its the only stage that has this sort of flaw. imagine what Cornaria would be like if every time the Ar-Wing comes around the camera zooms out to view the entire stage.

Oh, and wall bombing's a form of stalling if not used to recover. thus it is already banned. using it to recover isnt that bad. I mean she can't wall jump, while alot of the other characters can.

 

[SuperDoodleMan]

That stalling tactic also works on Fountain of Dreams and Pokemon Stadium. Should those stages be banned as well?

There's no substantial reason for Fourside to be banned and not the ones I listed, as pertains to wallbombing.

Some tactics ARE banned, most namely the IC freeze glitch, and Jigglypuff's supposed stall. Banning stages is easier but not necessarily better. Playing only on FD would be very easy, but we obviously don't do that.

 

[Big Burn]

yes it wouldnt be that hard to ban a peaches wall crap.... and whenever i play at fourside im really not bothered by the camera thing...

 

[bolaseal]

it has walls in it where fox can do infinite shine combos

 

[Big Burn]

so does peaches castle.... it doesnt seem to be a problem for that stage... but it does for fourside???

 

[FalseFalco]

This is actually a very good argument. Personally i think we should just start banning characters starting with peach and shiek , the FoD stall should be thought over even though i like the stage u would hate to be screwed over by some ***-hole. I believe the most valid argument for fourside banning would be the camera angles. Although the average noob can easily argue that sliding really fast back and forth on UFO's is extremley degrading to concentration.

Can someone point me toward the official topic with all banned allowed and neuteral stages? thank you.

 

[Fasting]

mario1234 has a point we ban stages way to casually, its a good level but for some reason its banned. ive never encountered someone in the smash community that would just wallbomb the whole match, reason? its boring no one wants to play that kinda match where they dont actually fight the whole match. plus wallbombing is usually banned to begin with. so it doesnt seem like it should be a big deal to have this stage on so what if marth has a perfect tipper he has one at peach's castle too, but no one gives a dam because its easy to avoid. basically all the reasons this level are banned are very minor issues that should be looked over just as shots from the ship in corneria are looked over, people deal with the stage and adapt to the situation. there should be no problem with the obsticles in fourside.

 

[Yuna]

I dislike the changing of camera angles and I don't consider Peach wallbombing the primary reason for banning it. Wallbombing as a stalling tactic is already banned for this reason. To blame the banning of Fourside entirely or mostly on Peach is just further soiling our good name.

Anyway, I do however agree with Battlefield. If not ban it like MrSilver apparentely did for DT10, at least take it off random. Every tourneY I get a say in from now on shall not have Battlefield on random!

 

[FaceLoran]

What the hell is wrong with Battlefield?

If anything, its Pokefloats that should be banned, since you can fall right through some of the Pokemon.

 

[Undrdog]

point taken, Poke Floats is much worse. poor Foxes...

but my point behind Battlefield is that you can fall straight through the edge while recovering. thus killing you at the games whim. its only happened to me once in a tourny match, but it happens all the time during casual play.

 

[Zarelid]

Originally posted by Aurafox
It can't be selected as a counter-pick because Peach could do the counter-picking, and it's banned because of Peach wallbombing. If Peach can kill you once, she can just float to the bottom and forward+b the wall to stall the match. Seeing as you'd wanna make the score even before the timer runs out, you'd have to jump all the way down there and kill her, which will pretty much insure your death as well. (seeing if she floats low enough, you won't be able to recover from your move to make it back up, even if your character can walljump.) This gives Peach way too much of an advantage to the point of being unfair that it must ultimately be banned.

PEachs wall bombing is banned completely thats not why this stage is banned. I'd say it's onyl banned cause people take advantage of camping.

 

[Glide]

I really don't think Fourside deserves to be banned, but it definitely can't be in for the random; Falco's got some mean **** going on with his spike, and anyone who can wall-jump is satanically evil there. There are also ridiculously close walls, improportionate to the level's overall size, much like Hyrule. Tips the scales in favor of anyone with a good backthrow or edge-guarding. That's really not that big of a deal, but it's still kinda lame.

 

[Yuna]

Fourside has too many kinds of camping; buildingcamping, tippercamping, inbetween-the-buildings-camping, edge-camping... it's the camper's paradise.

Anyway, I didn't say ban Battlefield. I want it off random. I've heard it's been up for discussion for sometime if Battlefield should be on Random or not.

Pokéfloats isn't as bad as Battlefield (at least not in PAL). You don't randomly fall through the pokémon. You have to hit down to do it (is it the same for you guys)? I have never myself nor seen anyone else randomly fall through a pokémon from just standing in a particular spot.

 

[Ness_STFU]

Just not flat enough really.

It changes the strategy of fighting quite a bit, eliminates combos for many characters due to the lack of platform space, and what's worse...


Ness's third jump is completely nullified if he falls in between two buildings...


Leave it banned kthx

 

[HugS]

WTF? Don't even begin to support that sorry excuse for a stage...

fourside? You wanna play hyrule in tournaments too? Does flatzone please you as well?

Let's all relax, and continue banning Fourside. Alright? Cool.

Unless you want to make the rule more complex by saying "No using marth or peach on the stage". But that would be pretty bull****. Fourside is for free for alls, not tournaments.

 

[Peaches]

There's some stages that just aren't playable for tourneys.

A huge reason for fourside is the camera, it's horrid. I've been recovering and it zooms out and I completely miss the sweet spot I was going for and die.

Poke' FLoats is a mess of glitchy land and no edges to grab.

Termina has the turtle which can totally screw matches, plus an abnormally long side (because of the turtle).

Mute City can be pretty bad, or is that big blue I"m thinking of? They're both pretty annoying for a serious match.


And Flatzone as mentioned is just ********.

Those are the only ones I can think of that are unplayable in a tourney. I usually just play neutrals anyways.

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

Fourside I can see for the sweetspotting problems, but taking it past that is kinda much. And it is Big Blue you're thinking about. Mute City is allowed, not Big Blue. I'm glad for that, because I HATE the road.

 

[Zanguzen]

I don't think mute city should be allowed because of Jiggly- no edges? that means rollout hel

 

[Rukazor]

Originally posted by UndrDog
...its the only stage that has this sort of flaw...

True, but if you are playing on Temple with items on, and a barrel or a box spawns on the opposite side of the stage from where the battle is, the camera will focus it and make it near impossible to see yourself.

Another case of this is on the Yoshi 64 stage, when someone is over on the far right cloud. If you are down on the main island on the ground, you normally cannot see your character because of the % totals of the players. This is esspecially bad during a FFA or a Team Game.

On topic, I like Fourside. It's a really fun stage for me and friend to play on. We sometimes have best of 7's on that stage :D

 

[FaceLoran]

Banning Battlefield from random seems ridiculous to me. It'd be hard to find a more neutral stage.

Look Pokefloats has a glitch that some people may not know about. When I say fall through the Pokemon I mean just flat out falling through a large solid surface. Not pressing down and accidentally or on purpose falling through an Unown. So far I've seen it happen on Snorlax once and Seel at least 3 or 4x. If you get to a certain spot (Seel's neck) you can fall straight through at a certain time. I can't explain it because I've tried sitting on the neck the whole time and it won't work. Happened to Darkrain in the last teams tourney in Omaha.

Anyways for this reason I think we should seriously consider banning Pokefloats. That glitch is pretty crazy.

 

[seaman]

There's really no reason to completely ban any stage. All you have to do is not allow the things that the stages are banned for to be used. Like I said, there should be 6 neutral stages & every other stage should be allowed if both players agree. When it's your turn to pick the stage, you should be able to pick any stage if your opponent okays it, but you can pick any neutral stage without having to get your opponent's permission. If they pick a character that you think is cheap on certain levels, all you'd have to do is not let them pick those levels.

 

[VilNess]

but hey: No one bans you from making a tournament with all stages unbanned.
I heard the very first finnish smash tourney was like this. Finals were on brinstar depths and I heard there were at least 2 "suicides" by falling thorugh stages.


I think Japanese ruleset is the best with only FD and and DL64.
FoD is OK too...
Battlefield sucks for the reasons stated above... a bit like Yoshi´s story. Those shy guys get in way of projectiles.
both should be only counter-pickable.

 

[Yuna]

Battlefield, "hard to find a stage more neutral"? >_>' People who don't need to sweetspot to survive get a huge advantage. Marth tippers prefectly through the platforms. Characters with usmashes that reach through the platforms are godly, glitchy edges from Hell, etc. No, it's not the world's most neutral stage.

Big Blue isn't banned. It's a counterpick. Though it's SOMETIMES banned. Mute City is never ever banned. It's even on Random at certain tourneys. So what if there aren't any grabbable edges? Ever heard of counterpick?

Rukazor: Both those stages are banned so it doesn't really matter :D.

 

[RockCrock]

I actually like Fourside a lot. Sure, the peach bomber is a incredibly furstrating tactic, but thats the reason that its banned.

The multiple ledges in close proximity have shown me very interesting ways of using them to advantage; both offensively and defensively.

I think this stage should be given another chance...

 

[beefbutcher88]

There's nothing wrong with Battlefield. The glitch edges affect both players, so no biggie there. The usmash thing is a character advantage. That's unavoidable. Jiggly has an amazing recovery. G&W has a sh*t recovery. Wanna ban stages where you have to recover?

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

I think what Yuna's point was that it can be hard to grab the ledge. Heck, you can be right up against it and miss the grab, but be away from it and grab the ledge. It's very, very odd, and can lead to a lot of SDs if people aren't used to it.

 

[Undrdog]

actually, it becomes really hard for Fox and Falco to sweet spot the edge. and you should never die due to a glitch in the game. that just isnt right. I mean, I've floated into the stage as Peach and got stuck inside it. Im pretty sure this has been expressed in the glitch topic already. characters that fall faster then others, Falcon, Falco / Fox, Link, Ganon, ect... will die just for trying to grab the edge. wouldnt be so bad if you didnt get stuck under the stage due to battlefields design.

 

[dan smith]

I think if they fixed the camera problems...made the stage a little smaller but with wider buildings...and made the UFOs shoot at people it would be a much better stage.

Seriously...the stage is too much about edgeguarding...with wider buildings there would be more actual fighting space. The UFOs could be programmed to shoot the lowest character on the screen AKA a Peach stalling in between the buildings.

It really isn't a terrible stage right now...the camera sucks and the pits are the pits but it's decent.

Better than Poke Floats...gawd yes.

 

[Glide]

I think Fourside's just fine as a tourney stage as it is; so far, people have just compared it to Hyrule and said "Peach Bomber" over and over again. It's really not suited to Random, seeing that some characters gain huge advantages (Marth, anyone with a good backthrow/edge-guard system, anyone with a spike, and Fox...) But I hardly see why that shouldn't be available as a counterpick. Peach bomber's already usable in many stages we have on random even, and I don't honestly see a whole lotta problem with it. Sure it's unconventional, but oh well - Smash is an unconventional game.

 

[FaceLoran]

Originally posted by FallenAngelII
Battlefield, "hard to find a stage more neutral"? >_>' People who don't need to sweetspot to survive get a huge advantage. Marth tippers prefectly through the platforms. Characters with usmashes that reach through the platforms are godly, glitchy edges from Hell, etc. No, it's not the world's most neutral stage.

People who dont need to sweetspot to survive get a huge advantage? That's true on practically every stage. Just because it's slightly more pronounced on Battlefield doesn't mean squat. Marth's got great edgeguarding, this is slightly more pronounced advantage on small stages, should we ban those too? Characters that can reach through platforms have an advantage? Uh-oh better ban every single stage with a platform, since characters can reach them all. Guess that just leaves playing on FD every time. Fun </sarcasm>.

I'm not tryin to be mean dude but what you are saying hardly constitutes even striking Battlefield from random, let alone banning it.

 

[Undrdog]

eh, say what you want. but a level that has such pronounced gltiches that often results in a stock taken from outside the battle constitutes a ban long before a level thats bannable due to what people could do to get an advantage.

 

[Yuna]

OK, how hard is it to grasp what I'm saying? I'm not saying people who don't need to sweetspot won't get edgeguarded. I said they won't survive! At all!

Oh, did you want to dair spike/meteor smash (in PAL) someone as Marth and then try to up + b your way to safety? Sorry, you hit the ceiling and fall down to your inevitable death. Oh, so you're Sheik? Get below the stage (below the platforms) and see yourself die with 100% certainty.

So, you're anyone whose recovery takes them slightly forward? This is every single character with a 3rd jump. Get below the stage or even directly at the edge just a bit below, up + b, and you WILL and with a high possibility MIGHT miss it just because of its glitchiness.

I've floated with Peach to the very edge of the stage, let go and fallen through.

And I didn't say ban Battlefield or OMFG, so unfair like some people are apparentely interpreting my words as: I said: The most fair and even stage in the game my bair!