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Why is Ness so bad?
- Thread starter platiepoos
- Start date
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
ness is amazing miggs
ness for top tier!
ness for top tier!
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
Lol!
I have to admit that his SHFFL nair looks pretty cool.
I have to admit that his SHFFL nair looks pretty cool.
Levitas
the moon
I thought this died years ago.
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
Apparently some things never do. =P
It did, but then there was the "Revival of Melee" lol. AND NOW IT IS BACK TO SAVE US ALL.
The Phenom
Smash Lord
Hey Dogy, is it true you found ways to Combo with YYG? If it's true, I'm going to try my best to find out how to. No need on telling me but it would be convenient but you don't have to.
Also, I'm glad your a mod; you deserve to be a Mod. lol.
Also, I'm glad your a mod; you deserve to be a Mod. lol.
yeah i did.
I actually found alot of interesting stuff about ness that I havent seen mentioned ever. Almost have a system worked out for edge cancelled pk fire, then i just have to actually practice it.
I never planned on talking about what I found (and still dont) because the only reason why im even working on ness against is he used to be my low tier main years ago and he's the only character i've played that hasnt gotten better (I mean for Christ's sake, some people actually despise my Kirby as a thread and think my Ness is some sick joke).
Some vids might pop up here and there (i know sleepyk has a batch of me playing like GUAH
from the last monthly we had), but beyond that, only reason any of this came up is because some people think that it's everybody's goal to be "the savior of a character."
*coldly glares at "some people"*
__
Me, a mod. -Laughs sarcastically- I still wonder who had to get shot for that to happen. XD
I actually found alot of interesting stuff about ness that I havent seen mentioned ever. Almost have a system worked out for edge cancelled pk fire, then i just have to actually practice it.
I never planned on talking about what I found (and still dont) because the only reason why im even working on ness against is he used to be my low tier main years ago and he's the only character i've played that hasnt gotten better (I mean for Christ's sake, some people actually despise my Kirby as a thread and think my Ness is some sick joke).
Some vids might pop up here and there (i know sleepyk has a batch of me playing like GUAH
from the last monthly we had), but beyond that, only reason any of this came up is because some people think that it's everybody's goal to be "the savior of a character." *coldly glares at "some people"*
__
Me, a mod. -Laughs sarcastically- I still wonder who had to get shot for that to happen. XD
toasty
Smash Hero
lmfao that had me dyin cuz I could imagine you saying it...if you really wanna see craziness, have him stand right next to Sheik...pause...and then zoom in. lil b;tcha.ss kid's head is as big as her entire UPPER BODY.
*sighs*...yeah...I hate it when they do crap like that *looks at Sage*
Take Ness to high level play if you:
-love the character
-are comfortable using him
-don't mind being on the brink of a heart attack trying to apply the necessary focus for playing Ness against someone good
-enjoy the rough-as-hell challenge ahead of you
-aren't egotistically wounded easily by losses
I love Yoshi's Story for Ness.
I've gotten gimped by the Shy Guys maybe 2 or 3 times ever...but I've been SAVED by riding up the wall and bouncing off at the lip couuuuntless times. The majority of people don't/won't edgehog against that properly.
also the combos, small boundaries, wavelanding, and platform **** are so supportive of my Ness's style of play...I just feel at home there ^_^
and I know the cloud's timing so it helps with recovery
[it comes out of the stage at each 5 second mark and goes back on at each 0 second mark. when it's odd [:15, :35, :55] it comes out on the right side. when it's even [:05, :25, :45] it comes out on the left side.]
YS is not very good against Fox though
And it's not as bad against Marth as you'd think ^_^ Moving on...as far as comboing with the YYG...Dogy hit me up with a PM! I wanna know stuff beyond the PK Toasty =D
thesage
Smash Hero
What's with all the hatin? I'll never trust another brownie again.
toasty
Smash Hero
awwww you're no fun
thesage
Smash Hero
That's what she said.
indie_dave
Smash Ace
wut?
10>_>;;
thesage
Smash Hero
My favorite thing about Ness is that some matchups he plays really slow and floaty and other matchups he plays really quick and like a ff'er.
I think if Ness had more grab range he'd be a really good character. A lot of his game centers on grab combos.
I think if Ness had more grab range he'd be a really good character. A lot of his game centers on grab combos.
toasty
Smash Hero
it's not the grab range that cripples him as much as his grab speed [See: Pikachu]
Although those T-Rex arms have caused me to curse more often than not
Although those T-Rex arms have caused me to curse more often than not
thesage
Smash Hero
I just miss too many grabs I shouldn't (ie ganon standing next to me wtf).
I need to solidify my tech skill especially my l-canceling. That's the biggest thing holding my Peach and Ness back. It's why my shiek is lookign so good now I guess... She doesn't really need l-canceling lol.
I need to solidify my tech skill especially my l-canceling. That's the biggest thing holding my Peach and Ness back. It's why my shiek is lookign so good now I guess... She doesn't really need l-canceling lol.
peach probably needs lcanceling less than sheik does.
Ness's ftilt is pretty good
Ness's ftilt is pretty good
toasty
Smash Hero
Sage isn't float canceling enough if he's commenting on his lack of lcanceling [which is to say: implement FC into your Peach game, son!!! it's the friggin crux of a BEASTLY Peach!!!]
I love Ness's ftilt, if I haven't voiced this already
I love Ness's ftilt, if I haven't voiced this already
thesage
Smash Hero
Nah, L-canceling is important too cuz with Peach you have to maximize every single movement cuz she's so slow. Fc'ing is way easier than l-canceling for me. Just like how djc is easier than sh for me.
The f-tilt never gives me any rewards when I land it. I guess edgeguarding with it is ok, but it can be di'd so it helps them. =/
The f-tilt never gives me any rewards when I land it. I guess edgeguarding with it is ok, but it can be di'd so it helps them. =/
toasty
Smash Hero
lots of things can be DI'ed but trust me, ftilt is BEAST for an edgeguard. It's got deceptive range that people tend to doubt but it's got good priority vs. a lot of recoveries but most importantly: it's a "meaty" hitbox. Don't know if Smashers know that term cuz I sure as hell didn't tell I dabbled in SF4 and saw it on the SRK forums. Basically, a meaty hitbox isn't quite like a "sex kick" but it's similar. Just know that the move stays out there for a while.
Angling the ftilt is KEY to its success as an edgeguard.
It is very effective against Falcon/Ganon.
If you can tell that someone isn't going to be able to sweetspot from where they are [like a space animal vertically below the edge but too close to sweetspot and he's...iunno...on Battlefield so he can't angle it either], you can angle this downward over the edge and it's more difficult to tech/survive than the alternatives [fsmash/dtilt, respectively]
Also, don't underestimate the brute strength of his ftilt. It's like a 75% redux version of Ganon's ftilt...which is a monster.
At mid-high dmg, if they DI it, you can set up for a PK Flash.
At high dmg, if they don't die, you can easily set up for edgehog or at least edgehog so that they're forced to recover onto the stage and you can just ledgehop bair or ledgehop dair->uair/bair [depending on char. weight and damage]
Angling the ftilt is KEY to its success as an edgeguard.
It is very effective against Falcon/Ganon.
If you can tell that someone isn't going to be able to sweetspot from where they are [like a space animal vertically below the edge but too close to sweetspot and he's...iunno...on Battlefield so he can't angle it either], you can angle this downward over the edge and it's more difficult to tech/survive than the alternatives [fsmash/dtilt, respectively]
Also, don't underestimate the brute strength of his ftilt. It's like a 75% redux version of Ganon's ftilt...which is a monster.
At mid-high dmg, if they DI it, you can set up for a PK Flash.
At high dmg, if they don't die, you can easily set up for edgehog or at least edgehog so that they're forced to recover onto the stage and you can just ledgehop bair or ledgehop dair->uair/bair [depending on char. weight and damage]
thesage
Smash Hero
I know about meaty hitboxes. Ness has a lot of them actually...
GaW is the meateist (is that a word?) character though lol.
For edgeguarding ganon/falcon I just guage where they are in their recovery. If they are below the edge and far away I grab the edge. That way they are edgehogged. If they get onstage I just get back on and b-throw them off. You have to be careful about spacing. Bat ***** them if they go off the ledge though. If they are higher I just bat them high enough that they can't di into the stage to tech. It may be possible, but it hasn't happened to me yet =/
I've been adding some random pkt into my game. It does catch people off when they are platform camping above you.
DJC uair is the coolest kill move vs. Jigglypuff. HEADBUTT
Once you learn how to read di, Ness has a surprising amount of options to combo from throws with. U-throw combos ff'ers at low-mid percent and d-throw combos them at high percents. I'm going to try to make it so that everytime I grab a ff'er it = stock. I can do that with shiek sometimes...
D-smash has weird hitstun lol.
I was wrong about fair actually. It does combo some people very effectively at mid percents. You can also see mow using it to continue his combo in the vs. falcon vid.
GaW is the meateist (is that a word?) character though lol.
For edgeguarding ganon/falcon I just guage where they are in their recovery. If they are below the edge and far away I grab the edge. That way they are edgehogged. If they get onstage I just get back on and b-throw them off. You have to be careful about spacing. Bat ***** them if they go off the ledge though. If they are higher I just bat them high enough that they can't di into the stage to tech. It may be possible, but it hasn't happened to me yet =/
I've been adding some random pkt into my game. It does catch people off when they are platform camping above you.
DJC uair is the coolest kill move vs. Jigglypuff. HEADBUTT
Once you learn how to read di, Ness has a surprising amount of options to combo from throws with. U-throw combos ff'ers at low-mid percent and d-throw combos them at high percents. I'm going to try to make it so that everytime I grab a ff'er it = stock. I can do that with shiek sometimes...
D-smash has weird hitstun lol.
I was wrong about fair actually. It does combo some people very effectively at mid percents. You can also see mow using it to continue his combo in the vs. falcon vid.
Yo how do you guys approach marths. It's incredibly hard for me. I've been tryings like run in > shield[to mess up marths spacing and attack oos] or the full hop > delayed dj aerial that toasty was doing vs fullmetal. But that one is kinda gimmicky and it stopped working after the first few times i did it.
I don't know how else to get in against marths and his ridiculous range, a little help?
I don't know how else to get in against marths and his ridiculous range, a little help?
toasty
Smash Hero
baitbaitbaitbaitbaitbaitbaitbaitbaitbait
10baits
but f'real? oh...wait....bait.
It's all about PERFECT wavedashes. People underrate Ness's speed simply because they don't KNOW how fast he can be. Dashing right into perfect wavedashes are essential for high level Ness play.
Also...it's very rare for Ness to get openings for entry, esp against someone like Marth, so it's wise to make SURE you can get the hit in before you actually commit to the attack. Just keep dashing in and out and it'll come to youuuu...with great difficulty ;__;
10baits
but f'real? oh...wait....bait.
It's all about PERFECT wavedashes. People underrate Ness's speed simply because they don't KNOW how fast he can be. Dashing right into perfect wavedashes are essential for high level Ness play.
Also...it's very rare for Ness to get openings for entry, esp against someone like Marth, so it's wise to make SURE you can get the hit in before you actually commit to the attack. Just keep dashing in and out and it'll come to youuuu...with great difficulty ;__;
thesage
Smash Hero
Anybody know any combos vs. Marth? It's so frustrating that I can't combo him.
I like to djcff ac dair vs. sheilds. It may actually be safe on shields.
I like to djcff ac dair vs. sheilds. It may actually be safe on shields.
toasty
Smash Hero
people don't know how awesome nair is for combos =D
at lower damage, I've gotten [several times] dash attack [they DI behind Ness], back-hit of weak nair, falling uair, another back-hit of a weak nair, and then DJ-bair.
at lower damage, I've gotten [several times] dash attack [they DI behind Ness], back-hit of weak nair, falling uair, another back-hit of a weak nair, and then DJ-bair.
wool
Smash Ace
toasty that combo is pretty legit. Im definitely trying that out on my not-so-good-easy-to-bait sister who plays marth.
toasty should record more so i can steal some of his trixies
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I do weak nair to falling uair a lot. Like, I spam it sometimes. Not as much as I spam bair though. lol
toasty
Smash Hero
The sad truth is that on September 6th, 2009, I relinquished my label as a low-tier main.
No more Ness.
No more Pikachu.
Why?
Well I was never the competitive type of Melee player who craved the title of champion. I had a rough idea of where I stood and wasn't delusional in the slightest. I really loved using those two characters though and even though I tried maining top tiers for a while [and got pretty good because of my background with low-tiers, which is a HUGE asset that helps with getting better faster], I never felt as comfortable/confident with them as I did with my "****ty characters."
So what was I "wasting my time with low-tiers" for? Some false sense of honor or an equally false sense of hope? Nah. I loved the challenge and I love to surprise people. I relish in being able to make top tier users sweat when they see my little Ness =D
I take great pride in my accomplishments with both characters, but rarely engage in the hypocrisy of assuming my loss was solely due to my character choice vs. theirs.
That being said, over my time as a main with either character, I've taken MANY matches [and far too rarely, sets] from semi pros with Ness and Pikachu. Some in tournament, but honestly most of them were just friendlies.
But I never managed to crack any pro players.
That is...until August/early September.
In a few friendlies, I managed to beat MikeG's Peach with Pikachu [rust-Johns for him, but I said it, not him
] and in pools at Tipped Off 5, I "won" a game against Colbol's Fox with Ness [on my YS counterpick! =D...oh and I say "won" because he Boback-ed his last stock, but he was at mid-high damage anyway....oh and then he 3-or-4 stocked me on YS right after that...I was too excited about the win to remember XD]But then I managed to get wrecked every other match beyond those. While I was always aware that playing those characters would be severely limiting at the level of competition I felt I could engage in, I figured it was time to stop handicapping myself.
Those small victories were most definitely satisfying enough signs of my progress and abilities with those characters and as a player in general.
I got what I wanted.
It's time for me to move on.
tl:dr version:
I recently beat pros in friendlies and tourney matches with both Pika and Ness so I'm calling that a good spot for me to retire my low tiers at
...................but I'll still play Ness occasionally just to keep my lil guy fresh [annnnd I'll record some vids, JUST for you Macman =D]
as long as you continue to provide ness vids. Good **** taking a game off of colbol. Have fun being a top tier like the rest of us XD
i have to try this weak nair > uair nonsense. i can't really picture how it works. You hit with the nair in the last few frames? When the hitbox is only at ness's butt and is really weak?
i have to try this weak nair > uair nonsense. i can't really picture how it works. You hit with the nair in the last few frames? When the hitbox is only at ness's butt and is really weak?
AXE 09
Smash Master
ness sucks because he was too good in 64
but don't feel bad, they did the same thing to pikachu =(
but don't feel bad, they did the same thing to pikachu =(
n_n
... Ness don't sucks is just that many players don't focus in how to use the pk thunder like giving more distance for use it like jump you can try to makes something that the opponent can't know like a lil bit more up makes him go more down than up and makes it more down you will more up is just to try and pratice a lot about the pk thunder and for make combos you can use pk fire and pk flash animo ok !
n_n
... Ness don't sucks is just that many players don't focus in how to use the pk thunder like giving more distance for use it like jump you can try to makes something that the opponent can't know like a lil bit more up makes him go more down than up and makes it more down you will more up is just to try and pratice a lot about the pk thunder and for make combos you can use pk fire and pk flash animo ok !
n_n
O_ o
toasty
Smash Hero
Thanks Macman...[for ^^^ post]
I wasn't quite sure what to say XD!
But yeahhh I'm a Marth main now ^_^
I wasn't quite sure what to say XD!
But yeahhh I'm a Marth main now ^_^
thesage
Smash Hero
I always knew you were secretly gay.
What am I talking about? I used to main Peach lmao.
I picked up shiek so pretty much with a combination of Ness/Peach/Shiek and I can **** on anybody's cp. =D