Why is everyone so opposed to having Smash Balls in competitive play?

[metaXzero]

TengaToppaDrill. GTFO of Smashboards.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

TengaToppaDrill. GTFO of Smashboards.

no you gtfo, im sick of people flaming just cause they disagree with someone. At least give reasons why you think they are wrong.

On another note i suggested this a while ago but i dont think anyone saw it, but why not put smahs balls on as the only item but set them to very low. That way they can be a part of the match but not have too much of an impact.

 

[Lefticle]

SMASH BALLS R FUN AND ANYONE WHO TURNS THEM OFF IS A FUN-KILLER.

Above statement makes total sense; it is not possible in any way, shape, or form to have fun without big flashy attacks. It's not possible to have fun without turning randomness in matches to a max. Taking any of these things out of Smash drains the fun to a zero. Anyone who can't see this is a grumpy old Scrooge and needs a hug from his mommy.

For those of you who are stupid, the above was completely sarcastic. Different people have different ideas of fun, and unfortunately for those who want to play with Smash balls, the majority of the Smash community's idea of fun is a competitive game in which the player who showed more skill during the match will win the match.

 

[dinhotheone]

if your gona put smashballs intoplay, why not just make it a one stock single elimination tournament while your at it? even better make it 4 man ffa. i mean if your gona add the most unbalanced item into the tournament, why not just put (golden)hammers in there as well? and since we got ffa and items, lets just make it time as well cuz ffa with stock makes people run away.

we want the game to remain competitive, not based on luck. we want competitions to be won by those deserving it, by those with the skill and those who have spent the time practicing. not by the kid who got stupidly lucky.

as for having smashballs so they dont have much of an impact, im all for it, 0 impact to be more precise. a smashballs impact is quantified, it cant be on and not be a gamebreaking item.

somepeople dont like losing thousands of dollars in tournaments to luck, to them, thats not really very fun.

 

[metaXzero]

@the_The_Captain_Falcon_Master
Every reason I would say has been posted on several times by other people. And I don't feel like making another wall of text that will be ignored. Especially considering that statement he made.

And @ your suggestion that has been brought up hundreds of times, NO!! Smash Balls would still be too common (proven) and Final Smashes are inherently unbalanced.

Where is Yuna when you her/he/whatever?

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Nobody wants to lose to a fox/falco/wolf who camps for the smashball... thats why.

 

[DarkWarCloud]

ditto, deff.
fox/falco/wolf can get 5 KO's in during FFA's and 2 during normal matches.
ike can just save his smash ball and make everyone run away from him and get a ko in, and then kill him/them with his finalsmash. It's the same with marth.
actually, a bunch of characters can do that, it just seems to be the worst with ike.

 

[TengenToppaDrill]

The only reason that needs to be mentioned, and I don't care if it has been before (I'm not reading 24 pages) is Zamus.

Everyone knows that Zamus owns Samus 12 times over, so why would you ever want to ues that Smash Ball to turn back into an inferior character?

How did you arrive at that figure?

@the_The_Captain_Falcon_Master
Every reason I would say has been posted on several times by other people. And I don't feel like making another wall of text that will be ignored. Especially considering that statement he made.

And @ your suggestion that has been brought up hundreds of times, NO!! Smash Balls would still be too common (proven) and Final Smashes are inherently unbalanced.

Where is Yuna when you her/he/whatever?

So for the sole reason of voicing my opinion I am cast aside. I mean, do I really have to label everything I sayin MY OPINION.Makes perfect senseAnd on the note of several people finding flaws in my logic, I'd rather hear the reasoning from you yourself than these apparitions. My thoughts make perfect sense and if you would just stop B**ching about an unfair advantage or other "bad" aspects of the smash ball you would realize that the game was created to be that way and you really should find a new fighthing game if drastic changes in battle are not your forte. Hell, why not just erase everybody who's better than you, every character who has greater characteristics, every stage (they all have problems), mingames and taunts for hindering your performance, and online because it has too many affecting variables, and how about Break the targets, you know it really wears you out not allowing you to reach your fullest. Accordingly, what you have left will be your dream game. Exhilarating I've been a smasher since the day the first one came out and I dont really enjoy your criticism and idiocy. Learn how to form an intelligent thought, go back to Gamespot and cleanse the air of your scrubbiness, you dunce. If this hasn't drilled into your thick skull yet I could just beat your pants of in an online match with no items. Yours truly, TengenToppaDrill
Set up the flame wall!Brace for impact!

 

[metaXzero]

@TengenToppaDrill

You don't sound like a competitive of Smash. You sound more like a casual. If you are, why are you here?

If the developers wanted us to play with items on (including Smash Balls), their would be no option to turn them off. But they gave us that option, and we prefer items off.

If every tournament was decided by luck over skill, no one would seriously go to them. You might as well flip a coin rather than have a match.

And stop using that "go play a real fighting game" crap. The community was born on Melee which was (still is) a competent fighter (despite character balance) and we like Smash's unique style that isn't present in other fighters. Items are for casual play, and should stay that way (lol rhyme).

If you want items, host your own tournies. Don't try and change the standard. Is that to much to ask?

...Dang it! I made a wall of text!

 

[metaXzero]

On a side note, why won't the mods close this thread? The same points come up everytime. Nothing new is being discussed. Their is no valid reason for Smash Balls, yet plenty of valid reasons against them. The topic is done.

 

[Spellman]

On a side note, why won't the mods close this thread? The same points come up everytime. Nothing new is being discussed. Their is no valid reason for Smash Balls, yet plenty of valid reasons against them. The topic is done.

I think it's more of a stalemate, it's just that many of the competitive Smash Ball supporters don't say "you're wrong because" after every point, we just support the theory of them working and have just given reasons that you disagree with for your own reasons.

But you're right that it does appear to be going nowhere.

 

[Yuna]

god dude, ease up. It's just his opinion. Everyone is entitled to think what they want. Just because it may have logically be proven one way, doesn't mean everyone has to say, "Oh, sorry, I was wrong." or, "Opps, guess I'm just an idiot." People are gonna think differently, and you can't be jerks to people just because they disagree with you.

We're not here to argue opinions, we're here to argue facts.

Some people constantly argue based only on opinion. I almost always use facts to back up mine. When discussing whether or not Smash Balls should be allowed in competitive play, we should be focusing on the facts.

How do FS:es work, balance, etc. Not whether or not Person A likes them and Person B does not. Besides, Jack has on many occasions argued his opinion as if it were fact. As in either he's saying "My opinion = Fact" or he believes his opinion is fact.

one problem with the landmaster THATS ONLY ONE

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ezpgf0fE8U

"You can die if you use the move at the wrong time" - Horrible, never happens otherwise, I guess.

Heres how I see things: Smash is a COMPLETELY RANDOM GAME. You aren't supposed to know exactly whats gonna happen or have an unfailing technique. Items are a staple of the series and as such should be left alone. If you couldn't reach the ball or lost because of it, you must accept it as it is, most are simple to dodge and those that aren't (*cough*sonic*cough*) can be evaded with a hella lot of air dodging. Perhaps try placing it on low frequency or just take it for what it is and stop being a brat. Things don't always go your way; it's a part of life. You can always turn things around next time. If you're hellbent on no items go play soul calibur or tekkkkkkkkken and leave us alone. GAWD!!!! BTW

No one's telling you how to play the game. So who are you to tell us how to play the game?

This is a thread about Competitive play, not General Play. No one's saying no one can or should ever play with FS:es on. We're saying we can't and shouldn't play with them on in tournaments.

you say fs are unbalanced and should be banned because of that. Well the characters themselves are not perfectly balanced, so we should ban the better characters because they are unbalanced?

Unbalanced =/= Unbalanced

There are different levels of unbalance.

"There's already this flaw in the game... let's enhance it to the 10th degree" = Bad logic.

no you gtfo, im sick of people flaming just cause they disagree with someone. At least give reasons why you think they are wrong.

How about the fact that he just said "If you don't want to play Brawl the way I do, then stop playing it"?

On another note i suggested this a while ago but i dont think anyone saw it, but why not put smahs balls on as the only item but set them to very low. That way they can be a part of the match but not have too much of an impact.

They still spawn way too often.

Where is Yuna when you her/he/whatever?

Sorry, I was at an anime convention this past weekend.

How did you arrive at that figure?

So for the sole reason of voicing my opinion I am cast aside. I mean, do I really have to label everything I sayin MY OPINION.Makes perfect senseAnd on the note of several people finding flaws in my logic, I'd rather hear the reasoning from you yourself than these apparitions. My thoughts make perfect sense and if you would just stop B**ching about an unfair advantage or other "bad" aspects of the smash ball you would realize that the game was created to be that way and you really should find a new fighthing game if drastic changes in battle are not your forte. Hell, why not just erase everybody who's better than you, every character who has greater characteristics, every stage (they all have problems), mingames and taunts for hindering your performance, and online because it has too many affecting variables, and how about Break the targets, you know it really wears you out not allowing you to reach your fullest. Accordingly, what you have left will be your dream game. Exhilarating I've been a smasher since the day the first one came out and I dont really enjoy your criticism and idiocy. Yours truly, TengenToppaDrill
Set up the flame wall!Brace for impact!

In Competitive play, we'll set forth a ruleset which best allows for Competitive play. How hard is this to understand?

The majority of what you just said utter bullcrap from a Competitive viewpoint.

Learn how to form an intelligent thought, go back to Gamespot and cleanse the air of your scrubbiness, you dunce. If this hasn't drilled into your thick skull yet I could just beat your pants of in an online match with no items.

You mean intelligent thoughts such as these: "If you're hellbent on no items go play soul calibur or tekkkkkkkkken and leave us alone. GAWD!!!!"

Also, online should never count for anything.

I think it's more of a stalemate, it's just that many of the competitive Smash Ball supporters don't say "you're wrong because" after every point, we just support the theory of them working and have just given reasons that you disagree with for your own reasons.

But you're right that it does appear to be going nowhere.

It's not a stalemate. "My" side won this battle one jillion years ago. "Your" side just can't acknowledge that.

You can "support the theory of them working" as much as you want. People have theories about everything. Doesn't mean everything is or even can be true.

I've presented ample amounts of evidence based on fact (booting the game up and testing my facts out will verify them), Competitive play history, Smash history and general knowledge of how Competitive fighting games work to prove why FS:es will never work.

Your theory of that it will will never be legit unless you can present any kind of evidence or even a good argument to show that it and more important: Refute mine.

I've shown time and again why it will destroy Competitive play. No one has yet been able to counter-argue me. If FS:es can work, then you have to be able to refute the many arguments on why it can't.

 

[metaXzero]

And with that, Yuna pwns again *Yay*

 

[TengenToppaDrill]

I'm not going to bother with this discussion anymore. I can't change your point of view and prove to you that you can be competitive with smashballs. On a last note: If online didn't matter, why would it be included and you really should realize that you are trying to change brawls into something that it is not. At Yuna, when you declare something as bullcrap you should first understand what the opposition said. I did not tell you to play brawl my way, I simply told you to enjoy the game the way it was meant to be. Competitive play has never existed, groups have just been taking things farther than they ever should have went. Contradict me as you like with your supposed "facts" but one day you might see things my way. I play competitively, to WIN, to CRUSH MY OPPONENTS but I play the game how it was created to be played. I would also assume that you wear shoes on your hands and gloves on your feet. That is all i have to say. PEACE!

 

[metaXzero]

TengaToppaDrill. Like I said before, if you truly believe Smash is meant to be played with items on in all matches, why did you come to a place where the general consensus is items should be off for TOURNAMENTS?

 

[TengenToppaDrill]

Just because YOU believe items should be turned off for tournaments, it doesn't make it the de facto standard. Look what you made me do...

 

[distr0ia]

the possibility of selected item lists for tournaments is one thing, but smash balls are just too much

 

[Taymond]

I'm not going to bother with this discussion anymore. I can't change your point of view and prove to you that you can be competitive with smashballs. On a last note: If online didn't matter, why would it be included and you really should realize that you are trying to change brawls into something that it is not. At Yuna, when you declare something as bullcrap you should first understand what the opposition said. I did not tell you to play brawl my way, I simply told you to enjoy the game the way it was meant to be. Competitive play has never existed, groups have just been taking things farther than they ever should have went. Contradict me as you like with your supposed "facts" but one day you might see things my way. I play competitively, to WIN, to CRUSH MY OPPONENTS but I play the game how it was created to be played. I would also assume that you wear shoes on your hands and gloves on your feet. That is all i have to say. PEACE!

How did you get the idea that there is only one way to play a game, particularly a game as diverse as Brawl? I don't really know if you noticed, but Brawl comes with a plethora of customizable options. Nobody's "changing the game into something it's not," we're playing a particular option set up that the game freely offers. How is Brawl, in any way, not the way competitive players play? Brawl, in a sense of being, is a LOT of different ways to play.

Where does this "meant to be" come from? Once the game is shipped, it is entirely up to the players how that game will be played. Sakurai has no say in how we play the game.

All Sakurai did was give each and everyone of us an empty canvas to fill how we deem fit. As is often the case, Sakurai has absolutely no idea how play will evolve over time, he is as in the dark as the rest of us. Designers intent is meaningless, once the game is completed and shipped it’s not about Sakurai’s interpretation—it’s about OUR interpretation.

If you genuinely feel that the above statement is not true, that a game developer can choose precisely 1 "correct" way to play his "masterpiece," and that any other way is "wrong," despite the very large number of customization programmed directly into the game, you are pretty clearly the one with judgement issues, not Yuna.


Edit:

Just because YOU believe items should be turned off for tournaments, it doesn't make it the de facto standard. Look what you made me do...

Here's the thing. Yuna is not the only one who believes items should be turned off for tournaments. The majority of the competitive community believes items should be turned off in tournaments, that is what makes it the standard. The standard is based on majority desire. This is, whether or not you like it, how the majority of competitive players wanted and still want to play. You should consider your own statement. Just because you think that items should be on, that doesn't make it the majority opinion, either.

The fact of the matter is, the majority opinion is that items should be off, and that's why we play that way. The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter what is said in this thread, because this thread has no impact on the reality of what happens. The competitive community will still play however it chooses regardless of whatever is said here, and right now, the competitive community chooses to play without items.

Also, you make the mistake of thinking there is only one standard of competitive play that could ever exist. That is not true. Jack Keiser has done quite a bit of work to establish an Item Standard of Play, and is not going to be deterred, no matter how much competitive-majority obnoxious anger/hatred/zealotry is directed his way.

The reality is that nobody can really tell anyone else how to play, no matter how much someone might want to do so. If people want to play tournaments with Final Smashes, they will. If Jack Keiser and other enthusiasts of his plan want to play tournaments with select items on, feeling a blanket item ban is over-the-top and that balance can be maintained a sufficient amount, even with select items on, then people will do that. And if the majority of the competitive community wants to play the same way we have been, a way that has been refined to create an environment we feel is the most adequate, fair contest of player skill possible, we will.

It doesn't matter what you think, it doesn't matter what Yuna thinks, and it doesn't matter what I think, not in the larger scale. It only matters what large groups collectively think. You're a part of a different collective opinion than us, so here's the simple solution: We won't play together. If we can't agree on rules, then we'll simply not play together. There's more than enough players of Brawl with all the popular opinions for each group to thrive on its own just fine.

 

[Lucario2k8]

dont be a jerk, dont waste time hating on others we dont live forever

 

[Kraxil]

I would be all for Smash Balls in Competitive Play except for one thing.

Even at low setting for drop rate, the ball comes fairly often and disrupts general gameplay far too often.

If it only spawned about once or twice per 5-6 minutes, I'd be fine. But in most matches you'd end up with 5 or 6 before the end which would turn the battle into a match of "Who's got the better FS?"

 

[Pseudoshot]

Lol @ TengenToppaDrill for bsing his claims to this 26th page. XD
All I can conclude from your arguments are that Brawl is a game of luck and camping and can't be competitive just cause its a game.
And if you're such a pro smasher, then you should be able to defeat your opponents at the same margin whether you use a smash ball or not.
gg and gl for finding a tourney that will support you.

 

[metaXzero]

And with that, TengaToppaDrill is pwned yet again. YAY INTELLIGENCE!!

 

[TengenToppaDrill]

And with that, TengaToppaDrill is pwned yet again. YAY INTELLIGENCE!!

When you find some intelligence, give me a beep. It's not so much that I rely on final smashes as it is that I'd rather play the game in its entirity. Though I do occasionally play matches without items, but I enjoy the sprawl for the smash ball even more and correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the smash ball one of the features all of you were clamouring over months ago. Hipocrocity is a great thing. Why don't you all just stop ganking me and realize that your competitive spirit is brittle. If you actually wanted a challenge you would accept smash balls as a welcome edition. You do not have to play it the way I stated. It's just my opinion and as such should god**** be accepted, not ridiculed and subjected to such idiocy which is becoming more apparent at these forums everyday. In regards to the many options, I am focusing on basic brawls and those alone.Fighting with no items o stock or whatever is your decision alone and I'm not telling you how to play.I'm not saying smash balls the right way to play, I'm just saying that if you truly are competitive smashers you should be able to adapt to new circumstances and win even if the dreaded smash ball appears. I am entitled to my opinion and as such should not be flamed the second I post this. Just because the majority believes something, not everybody has to (and that is the fproblem with democracy). You may play the game as you see fit, create new stages, find new techniques,etc. but what I'm stressing is that if you would ever want to have true competitive play you should have smash balls on. THIS IS MY OPINIONInterpret this as you may (I expect it to be twisted very much) and give your own thoughts as in dont be a poser. God knows we have enough of those already.
Cission
Moplete

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

but what I'm stressing is that if you would ever want to have true competitive play you should have smash balls on.

We have been playing without smash balls since 64. The game runs just fine without them. Have you considered perhaps that many of us don't find watching people get the smash ball over and over again to be particularly fun or exciting? The reason people are becoming irate with you is because you are not the first person to come in here with that opinion of yours (we've seen it countless times, almost word for word) We obviously don't think your opinion is correct, so what do want us to say?

 

[Roller]

Items are very fun, however they could allow a complete scrub to beat a decent player, and that shouldn't happen.

 

[TengenToppaDrill]

We have been playing without smash balls since 64. The game runs just fine without them. Have you considered perhaps that many of us don't find watching people get the smash ball over and over again to be particularly fun or exciting? The reason people are becoming irate with you is because you are not the first person to come in here with that opinion of yours (we've seen it countless times, almost word for word) We obviously don't think your opinion is correct, so what do want us to say?

Yes the game ran fine without them, but this is a new challenge and youre letting it pass you by. If you can't get the smash ball at all, I personally believe you deserve to lose. You can't tell me my opinion is wrong just because it doesnt coerce with your mindset. What I want to hear from you is a straight answer. Do smash balls make the game more competitive or not?

 

[Taymond]

*laughs* I know it's just your opinion. I'm not the one with the problem accepting other people's opinions.

Also, don't lie. You absolutely are trying to tell people what the "right" way to play is. You actively talk about how the game was "meant" to be played, an idea based solely on your opinion that you feel others should automatically accept and adopt.

In regard to past "clamor," you are, in fact, wrong. When they just showed one or two Final Smashes, we were a bit interested, but once more were revealed and it became blatantly obvious that they were quite unbalanced, we knew quite early we would more than likely not be using them in tournaments.

You many a large number of ill-conceived assumptions. You assume that we cannot do things we choose not to. Pro-Item players often get it in their heads that if you turn on a single item, every competitive player falls to pieces, ****s their pants, and starts crawling back and forth helplessly without attacking until it disappears. Garbage. A lot of us play both with and without items regularly. I know I do. I also enjoy both ways, believe it or not, but I realize that tournaments try to be controlled tests of skill. Tournaments strive to be the ultimate comparison of player skill. The best player should win the tournament, plain and simple, ideally. We want "a challenge," yes, but we want a fair one more. There is absolutely no denying that the usefulness, the power, and the ease of obtaining Final Smashes varies with each character, and we don't like such obvious imbalance.

Your idea of "true competition" is just an opinion, one that most of the community doesn't share. To us, true competition is an accurate comparison between two players' abilities. An accurate comparison. In tournaments, we limit anything that might disturb the accuracy of this comparison that can be limited.

Your right, there's no reason a person has to believe what the majority believes. But they sure as **** don't have to believe what a minority believes, either, so stop acting like we have a logical defect that prevents us from seeing the ultimate truth in your opinions. Stop acting like your opinions are the infallibly "right" way to play and that all others err. In short, get off your horse. We all can play however we want. Don't act like we're obligated to think the same way as you.

Understand what an opinion is.


Edit, to your above post: There's no real way for us to answer your question, because we have different ideas about what "competitive" means. Our answer won't satisfy you, because you operate on a different definition of competition.

Seriously? Stop assuming that our distaste for using Smash Balls equates to an inability to do so. We can use them just fine, just as well as anyone. The group of friends I play most often with prefers items on, as a majority, so I don't argue with using them, being a minority opinion. I play regularly with most items, smash balls included, on. I can get the Smash Ball fine, and I get it more than my "equal" portion of the time, because I'm better than them all, for the most part.

But you know what? The Smash Ball just makes my victories seem hollow. The bonus I get for achieving a Smash Ball is, in most cases, FAR greater than the amount of work I put into gaining it should merit. Yeah, it's a struggle to get the Smash Ball. Yeah, it's not a free thing, I have to work for it of course, but I cannot possibly work hard enough in a 10 second scramble for the Smash Ball to deserve 4 kills, in a FFA. No amount of great performance on my part in those 10 seconds could possibly be worth 4 kills, or potentially more.

We don't dislike Smash Balls because we dislike having them used against us. We dislike them because we, ourselves, dislike using them! We feel they're unfairly powerful. I don't want to win that way. I'd rather outplay my opponent every step of the way, work for every % I inflict, and struggle to earn my victory. I don't wanna just PK Thunder a every Smash Ball that appears.

 

[dj_pwn1423]

Just because YOU believe items should be turned off for tournaments, it doesn't make it the de facto standard. Look what you made me do...

are you stupid or just ignorant? I'm sorry but items are ALREADY banned in tourneys because about 90% of the competitive community thinks its for the best, same goes for smash balls.

I'm pretty sure these people are more knowledgeable about the tournament scene than you are.

oh yeah read my sig.

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

Yes the game ran fine without them, but this is a new challenge and youre letting it pass you by. If you can't get the smash ball at all, I personally believe you deserve to lose. You can't tell me my opinion is wrong just because it doesnt coerce with your mindset. What I want to hear from you is a straight answer. Do smash balls make the game more competitive or not?

Alright then: No I do not believe smashballs make than game more competitive than without them. Why would they? A free kill is all they really are. All smashballs do is put more emphasis on chasing after them and less on fighting without them. Why risk being stuck in a compromising position right when a smashball decides to pop up? Much safer to just camp out and get ready to race for the ball as soon as it appears. I don't see any reason why this would be more competitive than playing without smashballs. It just shifts the focus of the players to something other than normal fighting. Different? Yes. But not necessarily more competitive. And there's the oft mentioned random factor to consider (I believe my fellow posters have covered that quite thoroughly).

 

[Oracle]

Smash balls, like all other items, bring an aspect of randomness to the game that can let people who suck win. The whole aspect of competitive gaming is that we play to win, so someone without skill should not win against someone with skill. Playing competitively turns the game into any other competition (basketball, soccer, swimming, etc.) in that those who are good win, and those who are bad loose. However, with smash balls on, skill does not determine the winner, but rather, who has the best ability to get the final smash and/or the best final smash.

 

[PKSkyler]

Hey I think the smash ball is cool to use for fun but in competitive play even when th items are set to low in a 3 stock match the smash ball will ussually come 2-3 times, which is too much IMO so youd have to put on more items because the more items there are the less the chances there are of it appearing(ive experimented with it before)

 

[Yuna]

I'm not going to bother with this discussion anymore. I can't change your point of view and prove to you that you can be competitive with smashballs.

When did you ever try besides saying "In my opinion"? Try using facts and evidence once in a while.

On a last note: If online didn't matter, why would it be included and you really should realize that you are trying to change brawls into something that it is not.

Online is fun and dandy but it does not count when comparing skill because of button input and general gameplay lag. I could be really skilled but even if I time everything perfectly, a spontaneously 'bout of lag could screw up my combo/edgeguard/punish to the extent that makes me lose the game because my attack just whiffed while my opponent's did not.

At Yuna, when you declare something as bullcrap you should first understand what the opposition said.

I did, it's still bullcrap.

I did not tell you to play brawl my way, I simply told you to enjoy the game the way it was meant to be.

Which is complete bullcrap. There is "The way it was meant to be". How is that not telling us that we're playing it wrong if there's a way "it's meant to be played" and we should play it that way?

Do you know how fighting games normally work? You can't turn anything off. In fact, Super Smash Bros. is one of the many games in which you can turn anything off at all.

Even with other Nintendo games like most Mario Parties and Mario Karts, you're forced to play with items and whatnot on. Not in Smash. In Smash, you choose which, if any, items are allowed and which stages are allowed on Random.

What Smash was meant to be is what Sakurai thinks we want it to be.

And it's quite obvious you've never played any fighting game Competitively. In many a fighting game, there are banned things. Just because something is in the game doesn't meant "it's the way it's meant to be played and everyone should play it that way".

Super Street Fighter II Turbo banned Akuma because he was just way too good. The various Narutimate Hero and Gekitou Ninja Taisen games have at one time or another banned several characters for being too overpowered. Certain stages have been banned in tournaments in several games because they're too broken or lagged. Glitches are banned all the time for screwing up gameplay.

No one cares what Sakurai thinks. This is our community, our tournaments and we'll play them the way we want to. You can be a part of it if you want. But we don't give a horse's behind about how Sakurai thinks we should play.

Competitive play has never existed, groups have just been taking things farther than they ever should have went.

Complete and utter bullcrap.

Contradict me as you like with your supposed "facts" but one day you might see things my way.

Yes, the day I become a heterosexual.

I play competitively, to WIN, to CRUSH MY OPPONENTS but I play the game how it was created to be played. I would also assume that you wear shoes on your hands and gloves on your feet. That is all i have to say. PEACE!

You don't play your game Competitively (no, your definition of Competitive gaming is not the correct one) if you're playing with items, Final Smashes and All Stages and Glitches allowed (because, really, that's how the game was meant to be played).

You know what else is in the game? Special Brawl. Why don't we just put a piece of paper with the name of every single Special Brawl in a jar + Normal Brawl and then for each set draw a piece. Whichever Brawl gets picked will be played for that set! All items should be on always since that's how the game was meant to be played (apparently). All stages, including stages like Flat Zone 2 and Wario War Inc. as well, I guess.

When booting the game up, it's defaulted for Time 2:00. I guess that's how we should play the game as well. Only Original Roster because they need to be unlocked (cheating!)!

We're Competitive Smashers. We play it Competitively. If we're to play it the way "it's meant to be played" then we'd have to seriously abandon playing it because then it wouldn't be Competitively viable.

When you find some intelligence, give me a beep. It's not so much that I rely on final smashes as it is that I'd rather play the game in its entirity.

I can order in a dish at a restaurant and leave certain items behind because I don't like the way they taste. But I guess I should always play/eat/do everything in its entirety because that's the most appropriate way, no matter how much they disgust me.

Though I do occasionally play matches without items, but I enjoy the sprawl for the smash ball even more and correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the smash ball one of the features all of you were clamouring over months ago.

I'm sorry, whaaaat? People were "clamouring" for them months ago? I was one of the first people who said "These will be overpowered, we'll have to ban them, don't get your hopes up" (I'm psychic like that).

Also what difference does it matter if someone was excited about something and then it turned into something they weren't expecting and now hate? Are you so psychic you can always predict everything about everything and never get your hopes up and then really dislike the end results?

Hipocrocity is a great thing.

Zelda (Sabrina the Teenage Witch): "It's pronounced... hypocrisy."

And you're using it wrong: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrisy

Why don't you all just stop ganking me and realize that your competitive spirit is brittle.

"[Our] Competitive spirit is brittle"? How is it brittle? No, really, what possible leaps of logic are your about to make?

If you actually wanted a challenge you would accept smash balls as a welcome edition.

It's not a challenge, it's a gamebreaking thing that will make everyone play as Marth or Toon Link. It's a camping thing which will destroy Competitive play. It's friggin' boring and I'd gladly challenge you to a 200 dollar moneymatch with Final Smashes on Low. Accept?

You do not have to play it the way I stated. It's just my opinion and as such should god**** be accepted, not ridiculed and subjected to such idiocy which is becoming more apparent at these forums everyday.

No one's ever ridiculed anyone for playing with Final Smashes on. We also have never created threads to say "Final Smashes are bad and you should feel bad (for playing with them on)!". On the contrary, it's you and your Finalites who are always creating threads urging us to turn them on and telling us we're playing the game wrong (and you just did... in three consecutive posts... way to go pot).

Your opinion is ludicrous because you provide absolutely zero evidence for why we should do it other than "It's in the game and as we all know, what's in the game is the way it should be played" despite the fact that I've personally provided one jillion reasons for why we shouldn't. You haven't even tried to refute any of my claims backed up by facts, logic and evidence (like, the game itself). All you have is your opinion.

And the fact remains, I've never told you to stop playing with Final Smashes on. You're, however, telling me that I should play with them on. You're the pot and the kettle and I'm the porcelain teapot.

In regards to the many options, I am focusing on basic brawls and those alone.

Why? Sakurai meant the game to played differently than that. How dare you go against his vision?! How dare you neglect Giant Curry Starman Lightning Brawl?!

Fighting with no items o stock or whatever is your decision alone and I'm not telling you how to play.

Your (lacking) grasp of basic English is baffling if you think you're not telling us how to play the game.
"I play it this way, why aren't you?"
"I think you should play it..."
"Sakurai programmed the game this way..."
"This is how it's meant to be played..."

I'm not saying smash balls the right way to play, I'm just saying that if you truly are competitive smashers you should be able to adapt to new circumstances and win even if the dreaded smash ball appears.

You're not?

"I play it this way, why aren't you?"
"I think you should play it..."
"Sakurai programmed the game this way..."
"This is how it's meant to be played..."

There's no adapting to someone of equal skill getting a Smash Ball and taking off my stock at 0%. I'll be behind one extra stock and the only way for me to make a comeback is to do the same to him... through sheer dumb luck (Smash Ball spawn) + some skill alone. Smash Balls detract way too much from Competitive play.

They add camping, they remove balance, they're broken (and much more). Refute those arguments first. 300 dollar money match with Final Smashes on Medium, you, me, WiFi.

I am entitled to my opinion and as such should not be flamed the second I post this.

Yes you are. And we are entitled to ours. And no one has flamed you yet as far as I can see. I'm just witty.

Just because the majority believes something, not everybody has to (and that is the fproblem with democracy).

No, but when trying to change the opinion of the majority, it's usually reccommended that you come prepared with solid arguments, evidence, anecdotal evidence, etc., etc., etc... ... not just your opinion.

You may play the game as you see fit, create new stages, find new techniques,etc. but what I'm stressing is that if you would ever want to have true competitive play you should have smash balls on.

How is this not telling us how to play the game?! "If you ever want to [be truly competitive]...". This is saying that we're not being truly Competitive at the moment! That we're playing it wrong since we're playing it Competitively but apparently not the right way. This is telling us how to play!

THIS IS MY OPINIONInterpret this as you may (I expect it to be twisted very much) and give your own thoughts as in dont be a poser. God knows we have enough of those already.

Is English your 1st language? Because it's my 3rd and people can make much more heads and tails of what I'm saying than what they can with what you're saying.

We don't need to twist your words around. We just need an interpreter to translate TengenToppaDrillian into English. Why did you bring up "posers"? Do you know what a poser is? Why is it relevant to the discussion at hand?

Cission
Moplete

Why is your nick TengenToppaDrill if it's actually Cission Moplete and who has two nicks simoultaneously, anyway? It's as if I were to call myself Fallen Angel II Yuna. I just go by either Fallen Angel II or Yuna depending on the circumstances.

Nothing (you stopped writing)

I'm pretty sure you're being silent the wrong way. You're meant to be silent my way. Of course, this is just my opinion so don't try to twist my words into something they aren't, you poser!

400 dollar moneymatch with Final Smashes set on Very High. You game?

 

[FalconPunch]

Yuna I love you in the most homosexual way possible.

 

[SiegKnight]

I always hated how Smash doesn't have only one or so base standard built into the game, everyone gets divided and confused. x.x~ saakuraaiiIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii~

I like Brawl, but I personally think FS' were one of the worst things to have wasted time on during its R&D. Invincible frames and beefed up attack power since the beta aren't really where I'm scared of them, though they suck and show that sakurai can't balance to save his *****.

Its the infinite camp time and inability to do anything if they catch you on a frame that you couldn't evade, and them two make a deadly synergy when someone knows what they're doing. Being broken, highly unequal between each character and the fact that the invincible frames basically negate the whole feature of being able to smack it out of someone add to it, but they aren't the reason even someone like I can't debreak the game. This isn't like avoiding ice climbers inf chain grab or anything... Because you can't avoid this.

Theres a difference between something thats ridicolously hard to work around and something the framework offers an omnipotent way of abusing should the player choose to do so.

I won't lie, I like items on because they make you think differently and the framework never offers you a concrete way of victory or loss no matter how items shift it up. I also can see why they're turned off for tournament play and like it that way too, and as a result I get confused on what the game is want to be and want to punch a baby. Off subject... Framework refers to the game flow down to a pixel and frame perfect level. If you think what is physically avoidable if you guess right and what isn't, final smashes are actually one of the few things that the framework can guarantee you'll get hit by.

They shouldn't be on in tournaments purely for that reason. I advocate the difference in strategy they add, not that one design floor. A few months of advanced play and you'll see everyone use that trick x.x

I don't give a crap whats broken and what isn't. It isn't the fact they spawn at random points and also **** the game flow up. I'm fine with that. But you can camp forever, in full knowledge that, the only way around your fs is for them to be on an invincible frame. Invincible frames all end at some point. Airdodges have vulnerable peroids, so do down dodges, and theres gonna be vulnerable parts at some point that you rush to a ledge, too. One messed up evasion attempt and they're ****ed. The only way for them would be to be psychic about your fs activation and buffer in the airdodge or spot dodge literally 2-3 frames before you activate and hope you fall for it. Better yet though they could wait till you end your dodge and **** you over.

So, yah. Really. Not good. Any serious FS players will find that out soon enough.

 

[Zeik188]

Here's my thoughts, IMO.

Certain Final Smash's are just broken. Hard to dodge, and and if you DO get hit, its an instant death. The Only reason Marth's isnt broken is because you can dodge it fairely easy if your paying attention. I did some testing, and in most cases, even at 0% damage, you are dead if you get hit by it, with 0 Chance to get back on.

The Land Master=Broken on all levels. There's no real way to dodge this thing if the player controlling it knows how to use it right. Ledge grabbing doesnt work always. If you playing as Fox or Falco, you can easily float down there and knock em away from the ledge. With the Barrel Roll and the Laser Cannon, a Landmaster FS is pretty much one point for each player on the stage at the time.

The Smash ball can mess up the gameplay so badly. And certain ones like Captain Olmar's is just stupid broken. Cant dodge it, racks up damage like crazy.

I'm all for Final Smash's if they werent so broken. The way it works most of the time is, the person who gets the smash ball, wins. That goes double in timed matchs.

Smash balls are fun, and I like to use them, but it just messes with the match to much. If I'm in a tourny, I dont wanna lose a match cause the Person I was playing with got a FS and the attack was an instant KO. Where's the skill in that?

 

[Taymond]

You're the pot and the kettle and I'm the porcelain teapot.

*laughs* I just didn't want this to get missed in Yuna's lengthy post.

*chuckles again*

 

[Smooth Criminal]

*laughs* I just didn't want this to get missed in Yuna's lengthy post.

*chuckles again*

I don't know, Taymond, I was a big fan of this remark:

Is English your 1st language? Because it's my 3rd and people can make much more heads and tails of what I'm saying than what they can with what you're saying.

Good shiz as usual, Yuna.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Golem the Stern Father]

Broken items should not allowed in a broken game.

P.S. Don't take the 'broken game' comment too seriously. I don't want a repeat of what happened before (God forbid).

P.S.S. Why is this thread still up?

 

[Bud]

Were apposed too smash balls becasue they weren't in melee, so they cant be good. (before you quote me- sniff around for sarcasm and know i think final smashed is so dumb of an idea for competitive play)

 

[Zaryus]

I'm pretty sure someone said this before many pages ago, but I don't really care whether smash balls are used or not. But that saying I usually turn them off. That doesn't mean I don't turn them on sometimes for kicks sometimes. I say unless a large contingent of competitive players want to use smash balls you keep it the way it is now.